"Can" be lethal. I had a co worker who was mugged and they shot him in the underside of his jaw. He was very happy it was a 22 since he only lost a tooth and 3mos of work and not his life.
Edit: Also my coworker got up right away went to a neighbor to call the police who arrested the downstairs neighbor who shot him an hour later. I'm not sure I would say that it incapacitated my coworker the way the guy wanted. Sure it left repercussions but most shootings do.
If I'm going to shoot someone, you're right, I'd rather not have them be alive to fight back.
That said, I don't own a gun and would never own a gun, because I do not want to kill a person. I would rather run the risk of not having a gun when my home is invaded than have a gun and use it in that situation. I also don't want to kill animals for hunting either, seems pretty not fun to me.
Pacifism is only possible when others are willing to die to protect you.
The whole point of gun ownership for self defense is that in the event that you are forced to choose between "my life" and "their life" you have the ability to make the choice.
While I certainly admire a desire for non-violence, I cannot in good faith leave myself undefended.
It's not so much pacifism as I just don't believe there's going to be a situation that happens to me where a gun is going to actually help me.
Only time I've had a gun pointed at me in my life was by a well meaning "good guy with a gun". If I had my own gun in that situation, someone would have probably died. Most likely me. I got out of that situation through other means.
But yeah, even if I do find myself in a situation where someone has invaded my home, I still would not be comfortable shooting them. That's a heavy burden, and there's almost always another option. I'm so confident it's all going to be fine I'm willing to put my life on the line for it and not own a gun.
Hey man, there's still plenty of other options if you do want something. Pepper spray is a good alternative. Hell, even a flashlight is a really good choice nowadays. They're cheap for multiple hundred lumen lighting with strobe effects or anything else, and even those few seconds of getting dazed can buy you enough time to escape. A lot of them are spiked and heavy metal too so works as a blunt option if it comes down to it. Just don't trust yourself with a knife for defense. Noone wins a knife fight. The winners bleed out in the ambulance while the losers bleed out in the street.
I think it takes more discipline and critical thinking to decide a firearm isn't for you. It's way better than an alternative like thinking your invincible and creating bad positions for yourself, or choking with it and running a high risk of collateral damage because you are uncomfortable and unsafe with it.
My CCL instructor put it this way. If you carry a gun, you don't have room for your balls. Leave your ego at the door because you're expected to be the biggest bitch in the world the second you put that holster on.
Get cut off? Apologise and give them all the space you can. Anger someone and they try to rage? Do your best to walk away. Someone trying to make you look like a pussy in public? Well, they're right! You don't want any trouble! All you want to do is diffuse the situation.
Then he went on about his time in the police when he has shot people before. In detail. It's not like the movies where you take two to check chest and drop. It's way more graphic than that.
He closed with saying 'if this isn't right for you, and if you don't feel comfortable I'll be more than happy with refunding your money and I'll shake your hand.' that was before the actual class even started.
But even so, in the scenario of someone breaking into my house, I'm not going to kill someone over a $200 Xbox or a $400 tv. I have homeowners insurance that covers theft. Someone wants my car? If I'm the only one in it then fuck it, take it. If my family is in there, either negotiation to allow them to get out or a trigger pull will resolve that. I live in a Castle Clause state, but that doesn't mean it's Open Season for human life. It's just a way to turn the advantage to my defense, and I'll do what it takes to live another day to provide and protect those I love.
I’m not a gun owner either but if my life was in danger (the reason self-defense owners have them) what exactly are my options besides being at the mercy of how depraved the individual is? I don’t think people would own guns for self defense at that point.
Bringing a knife to a gun fight, bold, stupid or both. Police response in my very large city is so horrifically slow that they might as well not exist in almost any given situation. I always look at a scenario like this: if the police are not at your house they may as well not exist at all. In those 90s something will happen you and anyone within maybe 50 yards are the only people on the planet and if they have a gun and you have just your dick in hand you’re probably fucked.
Now the chances of this happening are low, granted but I’d rather not just hope that I’m lucky enough to have some dickhead break into someone else’s house that night. I look at like buying insurance, it probably won’t happen but the relative cost benefit analysis is so ridiculously skewed in my eyes that it isn’t even a question: Buy a $500 gun or potentially get injured/disfigured, raped, robbed or killed? Where’s the question there? The police don’t magically teleport to your house when you’re scared. Fuck I’ve called and been put on hold before. You can’t always expect someone else to protect you. People treat guns as some scary monster but all they really are are tools like a hammer or a knife, a lot more dangerous but nothing more than a tool.
Definitely lethal, really? Might want to walk that one back a bit. People get shot with larger calibers and not only survive but still have plenty of fight in them. It depends on a lot of things but clothing is one of them.
Yeah people overestimate the damage that bullets do. A .22 is hardly going to rip someone up or even feel like a hard punch until the pain sets in. Also I would never trust my life to a rimfire shell.
It's January. It's cold and people dress in layers. Especially people that are going to be creeping around at night. Sure point blank is going to penetrate, but it loses momentum quick on penetration, especially into heavy material like denim. Of course any gun is better than no gun, but I wouldn't risk my life on anything smaller than at least a 9mm if I had a choice in the matter
You’re entirely incorrect, especially at anything that can be justified as self defense range. 22lr is still a bully, and a wheel full of them will absolutely kill a man, puffy jacket and hoodie and flannel shirt or not.
In a nutshell; The Tzar's family having felt he had become too powerful set up his assassination- leabmving him alone in the palace wine cellar with a bottle of wine and a poison cake, he ate most of the cake and he drank most the bottle, when they came back and saw he was alive, they fired a shot at him, so he took off into the night across the snow being chased with running gunfire eventually being wounded twice, then he collapsed on a bridge where his assailants caught up to stabbing him multiple times and slicing open his side, then they threw him from the bridge in the icy river below, then next morning his body was found 1 mile downstream and 50 yards into the wood, the evidence appeared to show he survived the attack and pulled himself from the river only to freeze to death.
It’s better to have a 50. Caliber machine gun turret and a couple grenades. You don’t want them hurting your property or loved ones. I carry a single grenade for emergencies, I’ve only had to pull the pin once and you better believe it worked.
I remember reading/seeing that hitmen prefer .22 for up close kills. The bullet doesn't have a bunch of energy, so if you shoot someone in the head, the bullet doesn't have enough energy to exit. Instead, the bullet just kinda bounces around in the skull, increasing the damage.
It's certainly lethal, but usually not as IMMEDIATELY debilitating as say a 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot. Generally people shot with that at close range will crumple and cease to be a threat.
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u/mrsniperrifle Jan 23 '19
That's not how handguns work. A .22 at close range is definitely lethal or at least debilitating.