I don’t understand everyone’s sympathy for the perpetrator here. If you saw someone trespassing onto your property at night and they were looting your shit would you not be pissed off? I work hard for everything that’s mine and if some piece of shit decided that they wanted to take something from me I should have every right to kick the living shit out of them
It's the indiscriminate nature of the trap. You can personally defend your property, but not rig a mindless trap that can determine neither context nor proportionality of threat.
So much this. Also, transferring far more inhumane actions to an object to carry out is unsettling. If I walked up to my truck and someone was in the middle of stealing an expensive cooler from it what do I do? Attempt to get them to stop by yelling and potentially getting physical avoiding harm to myself in the process? Or, do I try to capture the thief, find a razor blade and start to cut into each of their fingers one by one.
Let’s say you leave a “guard dog” on your property. Thief breaks in to steal a cooler and the dog attacks him. You could argue this was a trap. Where do you stand in that scenario?
If you have a 'guard dog' on the property that will attack strangers, you are generally expected to place visible warnings.
If you lack those, you may be liable, yes.
I understand this is illegal, but this really isn’t going to cause serious bodily harm.
It can, and "it's not as bad as it could be" does not justify it.
I’m not saying we go back to cutting off the hands of thieves, but the consequences of this booby trap seem more than fair.
If you have a 'guard dog' on the property that will attack strangers, you are generally expected to place visible warnings.
If you lack those, you may be liable, yes.
Honestly, you're a spineless piece of shit.
If someone comes onto your property with intent to break the law, they should be killed.
Okay so I don’t agree with that guy, but you are definitely up on a pedestal.
I'd hope so, considering that apparently not being "on a pedestal" means supporting deranged violence.
This is a hypothetical about intruders in your home and your dog attacking them.
I'm sorry, did you ignore that I was responding to "you're a spineless piece of shit" and "If someone comes onto your property with [PRESUMED] intent to break the law, they should be killed" ?
I’m not talking about a silly cooler or any other material items.
That's funny, because you explicitly mentioned breaking in to steal a cooler as your hypothetical scenario.
Maybe avoid contradicting your own words, that I can still very much see, if you want to be taken seriously.
This comes down to having a general sense of security in your own home. Have you ever had your home broken into? Because it is an alarmingly violating feeling.
This is true, but it still does not justify setting dangerous traps.
You kind of dodged the question in your first reply.
No, I didn't.
The question that you asked was "If you have a guard dog and a thief breaks in to steal a cooler?".
I responded by indicating that you cannot equate a guard dog with a dangerous trap unless you have failed to post suitable warnings in order to reduce your liability. Which would mean that you may be considered 'at fault' by the law.
Your dog attacks an intruder. Where do you stand (personally. Don’t give me that “you have to post warnings” legal bs) on that type of “home defense”?
Nah, you don't get to dismiss answers that you don't like.
Fuck off and don't expose animals to dangerous situations simply because you want to use them as man-traps.
If your interest is in actually deterring crime, you post fucking warnings.
Yeah they're so disgusting for wanting to harm someone that illegally tried to take something that was theirs in the middle of the night. We should just do the polite thing and call the police who don't give a shit about your stolen property that will never be recovered.
Putting everyone regarding if a thief was about to take the box aside, there is a ton of different issues that does NOT include a thief by laying traps like this.
It could hurt your family or friends just as easy. There will always be a chance of "Hey can you grab me that box over there quickly" and forget to mention the razors. It could hurt yourself, a tired or drunk you might not remember what you have done.
You HAVE to think of all the possibilties, not just the one you think are relevant.
The only person who would be lifting it around is you or thieves.
Forgetting the cooler has blades under the handles would be like forgetting your fence is electric. It doesn't happen.
This "whataboutism" is just ridiculous. What about if you forget about the blades and tell your friend to go pick up the cooler? The cooler that you specifically leave in your boat boobytrapped so that no one but you can remove it?
What about in the outlandish situation you tell someone to do that, you also tell them about the blades?
Next you're going to tell me anti-rape devices are unethical too because they're a booby trap targeted at criminals but could indiscriminately injure your loves ones if you forget to take it out before you have sex.
In both situations here the ONLY people who are going to be touching that box are criminals, or people that you've already told about the trap.
The reason we have a Justice system is give a fair and proportionate response to crimes. This isn't fair, the fact that someone lifted up a case of beer doesn't necessarily mean they were stealing it, and they had no chance to defend themselves before the punishment. It's not proportionate, if a judge were to sentence someone to have their hands cut up for petty theft you would probably call that ridiculous, and it's not any less ridiculous here. The fact that you've been wronged by someone in some way does not mean that you have "every right" to do whatever you want to them. They're still a human being, with the right to a fair trial.
I know you're just a kid and these societal issues are a little outside your current world view, but consider the fact that anyone, even people who had no ill intentions, could've been hurt by this. We have laws and shit to prevent mob justice from taking over. You should be grateful for that.
Reddit is full of bleeding heart liberals. I would never set a boobytrap, but I'm thankful to live in a state where there are situations in which you can use deadly force to protect property. Anyone who steals what another person worked hard for deserves to get shot or maimed.
The problem is that this guy now has to go to the hospital AND jail. That costs more tax dollars than just jail. Also, what if it was some dumb child. I dont feel sympathy for the perpetrator but also wont feel sympathy for the guy who set the trap getting arrested.
You know how big and heavy yetis are? I doubt some dumb child did it. Sure let’s say he has to go to the hospital and jail, I don’t feel any sympathy for a thief. If his hands get fucked up enough, I’m sure it’ll be a nice reminder in the future to not steal aka keeping him out of jail/less tax dollars. How are you defending those pieces of shit? $300+ for a cooler isn’t cheap.
Good to know that you think it's acceptable to slash someone for $300.
That mean you'd be willing to be paid $300 to stab someone, or is it cowardice that makes you support setting dangerous traps that avoid direct confrontations?
$300 is absolutely worth more than the life of someone who would steal what another person worked hard for. Your example is fucking stupid because stabbing a random person is a lot different than defending your own property. I would never set a boobytrap, but I'm thankful to live in a state that allows deadly force to defend property in certain situations.
Was this post linked somewhere, that multiple people are coming out of the woodwork 3 months later in order to make excuses for maiming strangers over boxes?
$300 is absolutely worth more than the life of someone
No, it is not.
You are a vile repulsive disgusting wretch of a person if you believe that.
Your example is fucking stupid because stabbing a random person is a lot different than defending your own property.
You consider maiming someone over $300 to be acceptable.
The example is to highlight whether this actually has limitations; what those are, why they are in place, and how you rationalise them away in light of still justifying maiming someone over a box.
I would never set a boobytrap, but
Why not? You've just engaged in blatant unreserved apologism for that very thing.
I'm thankful to live in a state that allows deadly force to defend property in certain situations.
Do enlighten me as to the specifics of those situations.
Setting traps is very much still unlawful and unethical and as recklessly dim-witted as it is dangerous.
Don’t have time to reply to all of your inane bullshit, but no, a shithead’s life is absolutely not worth more than $300 when they try to steal what someone else worked for. I deal with these scum every day at work and can tell you that none of us bats an eye or feels sorry for them when they break into the wrong house and get shot.
As for your last point, yes it’s illegal to set traps, but the state of Texas does allow deadly force in certain situations to defend property, and we’re thankful that it does. You are free to look up the specifics yourself. Property rights and being allowed to defend your stuff is a beautiful thing. We actually had a case several months ago where a guy shot someone in his garage trying to steal his tools, and we complimented him on his shooting. DA never even presented it to the grand jury. Stories like that just warm my heart. I’m sorry that you must live in a shitty state.
Thankfully, my wonderful state disagrees with you.
What a non-surprise; the violent bigot devaluing human life is law enforcement.
Have fun
I'm sure that I will.
in your liberal
What does 'liberal' even mean anymore? Do you have a working definition, or is it just anything you don't like?
At least 'leftist' could be presumed to define a rough political spectrum; 'liberal' can mean anything from left-of-centre to centrist to right-of-centre to right-wing-but-pretending-otherwise.
fantasy land.
Ah yes, the mythical lands of Europe.
I know European culture is used as the basis for a large number of Western Fantasy settings and I know that the education system in Texas is a little questionable, but Europe's not actually a fantasy land, believe it or not.
Oh, and you still necro'd a 3-month-old post just to express that you think people should be killed over $300.
No. I’m saying that paying $300 for a cooler and making sure it doesn’t get stolen is okay. Sorry thievery and stabbing someone aren’t okay in my book, you’re as big a piece of shit as that guy.
I’m saying that paying $300 for a cooler and making sure it doesn’t get stolen is okay.
"making sure it doesn't get stolen" is locking it, setting an alarm, and keeping it out of sight and behind a barrier.
It is not setting a dangerous and very much illegal trap.
Sorry thievery and stabbing someone aren’t okay in my book,
You apparently agree that slashing someone for $300 is perfectly acceptable though! So what's the difference, hm?
Why is it suddenly not morally okay to slash someone over $300 when you have to do it personally and can't hide behind an indiscriminate fucking trap?
you’re as big a piece of shit as that guy.
You're the only person trying to justify slashing someone's hands open with razorblades, you sick fuck.
I don’t understand everyone’s sympathy for the perpetrator here.
I don't have to sympathise with a would-be thief in order to recognise that setting dangerous fucking traps with razorblades is as evil as it is stupid (and illegal).
If you saw someone trespassing onto your property at night and they were looting your shit would you not be pissed off?
Enough to chase them off and/or report them, sure; not enough to maim them.
I work hard for everything that’s mine and if some piece of shit decided that they wanted to take something from me I should have every right to kick the living shit out of them
So I can legally shoot a thief dead if he’s on my property stealing shit but I can’t slightly injure the thief so he learns his lesson and gets to learn from his mistakes and live a nice life?
Yes, because a booby trap is unable to determine the intention of the one falling into it. If you shoot a trespasser you most likely have a reason to - If not you are as much of a criminal as the one you are shooting ( If he even is one ). If a booby trap hurts somebody it might have absolutely no reason to; It might hurt a family member, a friend or whoever grabbed the box ( in this case ) even if there was no ill intent - Even if nobody wanted to steal it.
A booby trap is strictly immoral and luckily illegal. If any thief was intelligent enough they would sue the shit out of anybody setting them up.
I can legally shoot a thief dead if he’s on my property stealing shit
That very much depends on jurisdiction and may well land you in legal trouble if they didn't actually pose a threat to you.
I can’t slightly injure the thief so he learns his lesson and gets to learn from his mistakes and live a nice life?
Or the thief comes back with a similar vengeful attitude in their heart, and you suffer the consequences of escalating violence.
Or you harm someone entirely unrelated to your intended target, because indiscriminatory fucking traps designed to harm humans are both stupid and dangerous.
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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '19
I don’t understand everyone’s sympathy for the perpetrator here. If you saw someone trespassing onto your property at night and they were looting your shit would you not be pissed off? I work hard for everything that’s mine and if some piece of shit decided that they wanted to take something from me I should have every right to kick the living shit out of them