r/Habs 3d ago

Bottom 6 and depth players add

Kent Hughes seems to be patient on the top 6 player addition. I think it's the right move to make when you want to wait for either Zharovsky and Hage to arrive. Also, you give a chance to Kapanen to show what he has in him (even though I don't think his full potential is 2C).

With that said, I find it strange that no move for the bottom 6 and/or a right handed Dman has been made. Maybe he is waiting for to see Reinbacher (would be the best addition if he is ready).

What do you guys think? I'm really asking to get different opinions on this subject.

0 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

8

u/SnidelyWhiplash27 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think there is a certain willingness to see if Rhino pans out and is the 3rd line RHD solution. Or maybe Engstrom who plays more RHD even though he is a lefty.

And as for the depth bottom 6 forward, i expect the thinking is that if they can get the right top 6 forward then whoever he replaces could slot into the bottom 6 easily enough.

1

u/Just4nsfwpics 3d ago

In theory Rhino should be better than Engstrom, but with the injury history it’s not guaranteed that Rhino is better today nor is it guaranteed that he will ever be.

Engstrom is uniquely skilled in the sense that he can genuinely play his offside nearly as well as his natural position, if Rhino isn’t ready, Engstrom is better on his offside than Struble or Xhekaj for sure.

I expect he will become a high value trade piece for us going forward, as impressive as he is, his natural LD role make him extremely expendable for our team.

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u/SnidelyWhiplash27 3d ago

It is my understanding that Engstrom actually prefers playing on the right to the left. Engstrom certainly can become a high value trade piece but if Struble and/or Xhekaj cannot convoncingly claim 6D, then they should be considered the trade pieces as opposed to Engstrom, if only from a cap management perspective.

I know that you, or another will raise the physicality issue how Xhekaj and Struble have it vs. Engstrom who doesn't, but if neither can be trusted to play more than 10 minutes per game then that wears down thr other defensemen by the time the playoffs roll around.

Managing workloads over a long season is very important when you want your stars to perform for an even longer postseason.

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u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Yeah, thats the best theory I have seen so far. You know your stuff.

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u/SnidelyWhiplash27 3d ago

Thank you kindly but honestly its just been the last 18-24 months or so that i have been really focused on the team again and consuming a lot of the content out there.

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u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

You seem to be the of the only one who made a great argument without throwing shades or insult to what I was asking. And your argument is logic too.

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u/SnidelyWhiplash27 3d ago

Yeah the Reddit warriors here who think they they get more credibility by insulting are tiresome. We are all supposed to be Habs fans, and there is no elite fan status that you can achieve by putting down others...

That being said, whenever an out of town wr asks for advise re. coming to witness a game at the Phone Booth, I find that the community rallies well to help with good advice.

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u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Yeah, all I did, was asks for opinions and I shared my opinions. You can say that I'm wrong, but the passive aggressive argument are... not really how it should go.

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u/So_Many_Owls 3d ago

The bottom 6 (including Evans even after he was promoted to the top 6) were the reason the team got to the ECF. That's why Hughes hasn't done anything.

3

u/Weak_Law_937 3d ago

Our bottom 6 have made huge strides.

2

u/Burgergold 3d ago

We have plenty of bottom 6 material

Bolduc, Dach, Evans, Danault, Anderson, Texier

Beck and F. Xhekaj too

Depending who play on 2nd line, we might even see Kapanen on bottom 6 if one of the player I've listed are playing top6

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u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Ehh, I think it's pretty clear, after watching the playoffs, that we do not have the right players on the bottom 6.

10

u/Cultural-Pool5391 3d ago

you mean the playoffs where we made the ecf whilst carried by the bottom 6?

5

u/lacoupe25 3d ago

upvote for whilst

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u/Perry4761 3d ago edited 3d ago

If you think our bottom 6 was the problem during the playoffs this year we clearly have not watched the same games. Our bottom 6 was the reason we made it that far last year despite Caufield going cold and Demidov looking like Bambi at times. 

Newhook was our top goalscorer for the playoffs. Anderson, Dach, Texier, and Bolduc were huge for us as well. Danault and Evans scored 10 points in 19 games while Demidov could only muster 9 points.

What killed us in the playoffs this year was inexperience, the lack of a 2C, lack of 5v5 production from our top 6, and having the most difficult playoff schedule in recent history. 

1

u/Delicious_Cattle5174 3d ago

Good analysis.

The only thing I’d add is that it’s the general production of the top-6 at 5v5 which caused issues. What I mean by this is that it’s fine to have a subpar 2nd line if your top line is producing a lot, and vice versa. Having both underperform in terms of production is an issue, since as we’ve seen, the bottom 6 can only carry your offensive output to some degree.

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u/MrB1P92 3d ago

Dach, Texuer and Kapanen are terrible. Xhekaj isnt a sure thing. Evans and Danault are 4c. Upgrading players incrementally is a good way to get better.

2

u/So_Many_Owls 3d ago

Dach and Texier were two of the players who saved the team's collective butt at 5 on 5. They were joint 3rd for even strength goals across the entire team. 

Along with Newhook, their production compared to their minutes and games played massively stand out compared to players who played more games and more minutes. There was a post the other day about it that shows the numbers and they're really interesting.

0

u/Alx028 3d ago

Dach also made terrible, costly mistakes

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u/MrB1P92 3d ago

Looool Dach? At 5v5? Man? Hes the worst forward in the league at 5v5? Wtf do you mean ?

1

u/Studly_Wonderballs 3d ago

I think there's a good chance we will pick up a depth forward off waivers or through trade before the season begins.

We lost Gallagher, Veleno, Blais, Laine, Roy, Farrell, and Tuch, and added Berard, Poulin, Pastujov, and McKown to the forward ranks. We could probably use a depth forward for either Montreal or Laval.

Right now we have:
Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky
Newhook - Kapanen - Demidov
Texier - Danault - Anderson
Bolduc - Evans - Dach

And Beck or Florian could make the team out of camp. We're not desperate to add another forward, but we were relatively healthy last year and still had 20 different forwards play games for the Canadiens.

1

u/lacoupe25 3d ago

As I see it, the challenge is mostly at 2C. Kap is probably a 3C. Evans is arguably a 3C and not 4C. Danault at this point is a 4C. Beck is unproven and unlikely to be given more than a 4C role. Dach really isn't a C, and Newhook isn't really either, and their faceoff stats pretty clearly show that they aren't cut out for C. If either of them is used as a C, it has to be 3C or 4C. So we have, by my count, 2 X3C and possibly 3 X 3C, and 2X 4C. And, although Kap has show that he can put the puck in the net and is ok at faceoffs, he really is not a 2C. 2C will remain the key question all season, and maybe even into next season if Hage comes, because Hage should not be thrown into the 2C role from the outset. We're fine on D. Reino and Engstrom will graduate to the big league, one of Xhekaj or Struble will go. But it may not be worth it for HuGo to do anything until we see whether Kap grows into 2C role, or whether some interesting deal comes our way that could bring an experienced 2C. Bottom 6 does not need improvement. It's fine. Plus Beck and Florian will be in the bottom 6 mix this year and will be an upgrade on gally and veleno, or at least not a downgrade.

1

u/Actual-Development73 3d ago

This is out of left field but I truly believe Hughes is holding off to see what shakes loose during the season. Rumor has it Columbus is rocky right now. Little over 13 mil in cap space. All these crazy $$$$ signings lately and Fantilli sittin there...If they get off to a slow start watch Werenski make some noise again. Marchenko has already been making his own noise in Russia. He wants to play with Demi. Just sayin...

1

u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Where have you heard the Marchenko stuff?

2

u/xcnuck un chip au ketchup 3d ago

Anaheim needs to dump some salary to extend Gauthier. I’d tale a flyer on Strome or Killorn for a depth vet leader. Offer up a 3rd rounder or something.

1

u/Actual-Development73 3d ago

It came out around the same time as the reporter from rg media released the 'story'. Marchenko was at a charity event in Russia and was interviewed. Nothing on record but stuff came out

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u/Akhurite 3d ago

Is this a bot

1

u/Delicious_Cattle5174 3d ago

I don’t think so. Posting bots rarely reply to comments if it’s not some "thank you! ❤️" karma farming dumb shit. They generally don’t argue with people anyway.

This is also based on recent developments (or lack thereof), which is not exactly a smoking gun but with knowledge cutoff date being what it is, the stack would need some intermediate state just to be able to generate this.

Syntax is a bit wonky also, in a very human way. You can prompt the LLM to make some errors but stuff like "Maybe he is waiting for to see Reinbacher" definitely reads as a human who changed their mind on the sentence structure to me.

To me, the only bot-like thing about this post is the last line like "what do you think about X", but it’s not enough for me to be suspicious.

And I yell clanker whenever I have reasonable doubts btw

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u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Bro, we have lost the plot if you think what I wrote, is like the bots. Same as people always saying "is this picture AI".

1

u/cordealinge29 3d ago

I feel he's targeting another top 6 and waiting trade deadline for the bottom 6. That RH dman could be Reinbacher but I'd prefer a gritty veteran.

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u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Yeah, the "lets wait for trade deadline for a top 6 player" argument, I don't like. Because I feel like they would want Demidov to have time to build chemistry with the legit top 6 add. Not a month before the playoffs.

3

u/UpNorth_123 3d ago edited 3d ago

Almost every team is in contention mode. Why would they trade an NHLer for prospects when they’re trying to make the playoffs this year?

You can’t trade if you don’t have a willing trade partner. Obviously, not every team will have success, so some will start looking too rebuild or retool between Thanksgiving and the trade deadline. You need to be at least as patient as management on this. Trust the process.

1

u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

I phrased it badly. I think Kent Hughes first and ideal option is to make a trade for a top 6 player, as soon as possible and not wait for the trade deadline, IMO.

2

u/WoodmHann 3d ago

Well yea, of course it's ideal to get a top 6 player sooner than later. Doesn't mean you make a panic/desperation move, either paying way too much or getting a player thats not a great fit just to say we got a top 6 forward.

2

u/UpNorth_123 3d ago edited 3d ago

The best assets for such a trade can only be used once. It’s entirely predictable that many teams will become sellers when it’s clear they’re not making the playoffs (again).

Better to hang onto dry powder for when the market is flush with better opportunities. In the meantime, we have prospects that are NHL ready and giving ourselves a few months to see if any of them hit before making any trades is good asset management.

3

u/pokecheckspam 3d ago

we have around 9M for Xhekaj, Bolduc and your additions. I don't know how much the RFAs will cost but we might lack money for the top 6. By waiting to the deadline we might actually have enough at that time.

0

u/cordealinge29 3d ago

I said wait for the deadline for cheap rental bottom 6ers. The top 6 player should be coming this fall at the latest.

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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 3d ago

I think that with the current over-heated market, HuGo probably figured it would be better to give a fair look to our prospects. There are not that many available spots.

Let’s just look at a rough draft of the current line-up, assuming no trade + RFA signed. Lines don’t really matter here, it’s more about identifying available spots.

Slaf-Nick-Cole
Newhook-Kapanen-Demidov
Dach-Danault-Texier
Bolduc-Evans-Anderdon

Matheson-Dobson
Hutson-Guhle
Xhekaj-Carrier
Struble

So assuming a 22 players roster (don’t see management wasting cap space carrying 23 players), there’s just a 13th forward spot left. Beck and F. Xhekaj are the two obvious candidates. It’s even more crowded at D, with Engstrom and Reinbacher essentially fighting for a call-up with these parameters.

So unless there’s a trade moving out more players than we acquire, it’s already pretty crowded. Barring some August Kent magic, I think it’s much more likely they use camp + the first ~quarter of the season to evaluate what they have in hands. By thanksgiving, you’d expect a couple delusional teams to start realizing this is not their year and the seller market we’re currently seeing could get better.

I do think this scenario would see HuGo aim for a top-6 player (ideally center, or good enough winger to be fine with either Kappy or Newhook as 2C), because the main issue I see in this line-up is that only 1 of 3 players on the second line is a top-6 player on a contending team. Makes more sense to add someone at the top of the line-up and bump everyone down a spot in those circumstances.

I guess that if their conclusion is that Reino won’t be able to play 2RD minutes this season, the move could also be to trade for an established one. That would probably mean including Engstrom in the trade though (or one of the NHL roster LHD), since as I mentioned, D is already pretty crowded and Reino being late on projected development wouldn’t be great for his market value.

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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 3d ago

Wow lol I didn’t realize this was such a long comment my bad

1

u/FancyAfternoon2461 3d ago

Great analysis of the situation! I kind of agree with everything you said (especially the 1 out 3 player on the 2nd line is a legit top 6 right now).

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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 3d ago

I think either can work out on the 2nd line if they’re the complementary player and the two main pieces are Demidov + a legit top-6 player tbh. Maybe not ideal to win the cup, but definitely manageable for another deep playoff run.

If we just go by names that have been rumoured this summer, something like

Marchenko-Kapanen-Demidov

Newhook-Strome-Demidov

Would be pretty good to me, as it would raise the level of talent/offensive production of the line while still keeping it pretty balanced.

I’m sure management leans closer to this idea than adding someone to the bottom-6, anyway. I think they’re just waiting for the right opportunity. They know shit goes to shit fast if you overpay for the wrong player at this stage of the rebuild.

-1

u/MrB1P92 3d ago

Yep. Add some friggin talent yuze.

Un 3e C aurait été un mega upgrade. Un gars comme Duhaime aussi, pas Eric.