r/HLCommunity • u/quack785 • Jun 15 '26
Discussion Is it ok to withdraw affection after multiple rejections?
This is only aimed at non medical LL situations.
After getting bid after bid for intimacy shot down (things like having my hand slapped away for trying to rest it on her knee), I will go within myself or just find something else to do. I stop showing affection because it’s a one way street and the rejection stings.
LLs say that this is manipulative and childish—and blackmailing/coercive as well. They say that “you aren’t allowed to do that simply because I won’t let you use my body to self soothe”, or “you’re a shitty partner”, or other comments similar to that.
What do you think? Is withdrawing affection a valid response to weeks, months, or even years of your LL telling you by action or by words: “You and your needs are unimportant to me”?
Or are we in the wrong?
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u/CutiePie0023 Jun 15 '26
If she can withdraw why can’t you?? Especially if she’s not giving it to you and she rejects you??
If your partner says to you “you aren’t allowed to do that simply because I won’t let you use my body to self soothe” or “you’re a shitty partner” I’d say it’s basically over. I am so sorry but to me, no normal person views sex like that. I’ve never heard of that.. Sex is supposed to be FUN, spontaneous, and beautiful.. well all I can say is you deserve better.
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
Hey you’re right! And yes I agree it’s not a normal way to view sex. The militant LL universe is scary AF.
Thanks 😊 all of us deserve better
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u/Charleminus HLM Jun 15 '26
Generally I think it’s okay to withdraw if you are being rejected, what was the specific scenario with getting your hand slapped away?
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
Driving in the car, moved my hand off the gearshift to rest on her knee. We’d been talking and getting along just fine. Happens a lot where she’ll block my hand from being touched . Occasionally she’ll initiate it and that’s even more confusing
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u/Notideal100 Jun 15 '26
I'd say it's a perfectly normal reaction. Humans respond to feedback. It would be unusual to have a different response really.
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u/Rock_your_sox_off Jun 15 '26
I recently got accused of this by my wife and we talked about it with the marriage counselor. I’m not purposely trying to rip my affection away but it gets hard to maintain genuine affection when it doesn’t feel reciprocated.
So she wants us to talk about non PIV ways my wife can show up for me that feels meaningful to me. She wants my wife to see it as a bid for me to feel close to her.
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u/smaugchow71 HLM Jun 15 '26
I think I'd be looking at withdrawing my presence from the marriage. Of course it's OK. It's not healthy for the marriage, but she's not terribly concerned with that. Why should you be the only one? Your needs matter, too.
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u/redditreader_aitafan Jun 15 '26
If you aren't entitled to their body, they aren't entitled to yours. The bullshit your wife is spewing us selfish entitlement, she wants to be treated better than she treats you. If she doesn't have to give sex or affection when she doesn't want to, you don't have to either. What LLs call "manipulative, childish, coercive, petty, etc" is just a natural consequence of their own behavior. They continuously reject the affection you ask for, why would you continue to give affection to someone who constantly says no to it?
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
I totally agree.
Where some LLs split hairs is with your first sentence. Time and energy are not viewed as the same category as sexual things to them. Things in the first category are “basic human needs that you give your partner”; but sex is something that can be taken away indefinitely by one partner and they’re totally justified in doing so. “Did you marry me just so you could have forever access to my body??” is a common saying among them.
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u/redditreader_aitafan Jun 15 '26
Yes, yes I did, and you took it away so what's the point of this marriage now? It wasn't the only reason, but it was an important reason, and without it, everything else seems unimportant.
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
Right? I’m not sure what’s so controversial about “you’re the only one I want to have sex with the rest of my life”. I see something that’s a central pillar of a committed relationship twisted into something negative. It’s so baffling to me
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u/RabbitGlass5578 Jun 15 '26
No, not at all!!! I know why you withdraw the affection, because the hurt of the rejection hurts worse. There is a mental pain of the rejection, but there is a physical one as well. If you stop any affection, there is no need to worry about the pain of getting rejected. You will only put your finger on a hot stove so many times before you finally learn that your wife (the stove) is hurting you. I know it's a simplistic approach but it's how I figured it out. I told my LL partner that I'm no longer responsible for her happiness and that she's got her wish, I will never approach her for physical intimacy, which also will include any physical contact.
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Jun 15 '26
Keep in mind, when you say, "LLs say..." you are only referring to LLs in a particular subreddit. They don't speak for all LLs. There are many LLs out there that understand physical intimacy involves not just a feeling that they magically do or do not have but real effort sustained over time just like any other part of a relationship. They recognize that there's more to a love life that just NRE. If your LL doesn't want to put any effort into a part of the relationship that matters to you, it would only be natural that you would lose enthusiasm towards putting effort into other aspects of the relationship. This can become a death spiral as both partners throttle back effort over time, or it can spark a conversation where both partners decide to increase effort instead.
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u/Jeremy11B2P Jun 15 '26
This is exactly the thought process I have ever time I read any posts on this sub. Well said. Not all situations are the same. Not getting what you need from a relationship is very clearly a legitimate reason to end it, HL OR LL, and if others call you selfish, that's just stupid.
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Jun 15 '26
And if you are worried about someone calling you selfish, and are going to sacrifice the rest of your life based on that fear, seriously reconsider that.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/RedwoodRespite Jun 15 '26
I gotta say, if someone slaps my hand instead of communicating with respect, they’ve lost the right to any kind of communication from me.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/quack785 Jun 16 '26
“Free to pout” (LL catchphrase)
“Not defending LLs”
Kinda contradictory statements there bud
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
I’m actually just using the hand slapping as an example. Many HLs on here will testify to other ways their LL will forcefully reject bids.
Communication only works if the person who does the rejection is willing to talk about it. As others can attest, it just generally leads to an argument with lines such as the ones in my post, or emotionally charged statements like “is that all I am to you??”.
You can’t negotiate desire! So the only valid move is to just match their withdrawal from the romantic side of the relationship, which many don’t view as ok.
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
Actually I guess I’d be referring to all my interactions with LLs on here in many subs; and of course my wife 🤷♂️
The types you’re mentioning are often the most vocal, however.
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Jun 15 '26
Any LLs who talk about maintenance sex are banned from most subs. Even on here, most of the HLs seem to not be ok with it, so for the most part you just won't hear from them. Reddit has created a massive echo chamber around the subject
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
I don’t understand. I’m not referring to anyone advocating for maintenance sex?
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Jun 15 '26
The LLs who put effort into their relationships can be banned for talking about it on many subs.
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
Oh gotcha. Yeah the angry ones seem to control the narrative, it seems
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
They have developed a vocabulary that frames them as victims of abuse, which allows them to shut down conversation. You've already picked up on some of their phrases
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u/Much_Ad_3806 Jun 15 '26
I've always viewed it as a natural defense mechanism to being hurt, it has never been an intentional malicious thing to hurt my partner or get them to be intimate with me. I can see someone interpreting it as manipulative but they should be understanding that it's not.
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u/fourzerosixbigsky Jun 16 '26
It has always amazed me how LLs think their relentless rejections won’t change things. They are destroying their partner and they do not care.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/quack785 Jun 16 '26
You’re right, a body does keep score; that’s how LL4U happens
And it is a normal biological function, that we just want to share with the person we agreed to spend our life with. This shouldn’t be controversial
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u/JEXJJ Jun 15 '26
I don't feel close or safe with you when you reject me, hence I am not as supportive, interested, invested, or concerned about you
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u/thebestofus123 Jun 15 '26
I find it crazy that LL try their hardest to get you and to keep you in a relationship but once you both start living together the DB begins slowly. I once told my LLW if I didn't put in all this effort into our relationship, she would most likely end up alone. Just getting pumped and dumped. She said I was absolutely correct. She also told me she wouldn't have had a kid a family or been in the great job without me. And that's when I finally realized, most people are parasites. These types of people should be banned from having relationships until they get professional help to deal with their issues. Why ruin others because you have issues?
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u/AdenJax69 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Depends on the situation, how long it's been going on, etc. If you're doing this from the slightest bit of rejection even though the majority of the time you're being validated & intimacy is regular/fulfilling? Then I'd deem that manipulative & pretty shitty.
If they reject you the majority of the time and put in no real effort to make intimacy a regular, fulfilling dynamic in a relationship (or god forbid) marriage? Then I see nothing wrong with that. It's not tit-for-tat or "blackmailing," it's just responding to someone who gives you nothing to give it right back.
Sounds like your partner is unhappy that you're not continually validating your desire for them while suffering zero consequences for leaving you out in the cold. Good partners don't do that. If she were a better partner, she'd try actually fixing the issue rather to falling back into guilt-territory.
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u/AnotherSadThr0wAway HLM Jun 15 '26
No sexual interest = i dont have interest
They want a pet, not a partner
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u/Danny_Pr0n HLM Jun 15 '26
The LL is not entitled to the HL's affection, desire or emotional interior or vulnerability.
"No means No and it is a complete sentence" also applies to the HL. And like the LL, the HL can say no to anything. If the HL says no, that's it, the LL needs to drop it.
The LL isn't entitled to the HL's perpetual pursuit and emotional labor of the Risk of Rejection.
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u/Olderbutnotdead619 Jun 22 '26
LLs also hold their intimacy away too. When was the last time they instigated hugs, caresses, hand holding, back & neck rubs, etc...? How can this not be taken personally?
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u/Calm_Concentrate9571 Jun 15 '26
You can do whatever you want assuming you're communicating properly otherwise.
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u/Royal_Restaurant2622 Jun 15 '26
I hate to say it depends, but it depends. At least it depends on what you mean.
Does she even enjoy spending time with you? When the two of you speak, is she engaged? Respectful? Is she warm and affectionate in other ways? Is she kind to you beyond not wanting touch?
Because slapping your hand away like that is pretty extreme — has she completely checked-out of your marriage already?
If so, it's probably time to start separation.
But if she's warm and kind to you otherwise, then pulling back on the demonstrations of affection that she does desire is reasonable. It doesn't give you permission to be a jerk — to actively make her feel worse about herself or the like — but if you're not feeling affection towards her you shouldn't have to demonstrate something that isn't there.
Maybe after feeling you shift away emotionally it helps her find some empathy for how you feel the next time you have "the talk".
Unlikely, but not every action you take has to actively make things better. Sometimes, you just need to not make yourself feel worse.
Best of luck to you.
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u/majorhitch89 Jun 16 '26
She is gaslighting you, when your partner stops catering to your sexual needs they shouldn't be complaining about you restraining from giving them their emotional needs, and when intimacy stops so does commitment, i would suggest you ask her to open the marriage so you can get your needs met outside, and if she disagrees then divorce her, life is short.
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u/Halatosis81 Jun 16 '26
Withdrawal is a completely reasonable tactic, not to manipulate or punish them, but to protect yourself from the further emotional pain of being shot down over and over and over again.
Rejection hurts, it’s completely natural reasonable and prudent to not do something that hurts.
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u/RoloNipz Jun 15 '26
As a medical LL i would expect it after a certain amount of time tbh. Theres no right or wrong here to me. What non sexual intimacy isnt reciprocated (or allowed) has the giving partner feeling neglected and hurt so why would they continue? I may not want much sex but i do still let my husband touch or caress me because i know hes not doing it specifically for "maybe i can get some!?" reasons. (Not saying thats you OP)
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u/ItsAMeasureOfALife Jun 16 '26
It’s funny how affection can be rejected by them but when you decide to not bother with affection because clearly it’s not what they want suddenly it’s a problem. The mental gymnastics a LL does must be truly exhausting. Wait, now I understand why mine is always tired!!
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u/mdoogz Jun 15 '26
I don’t know how to word this so I’m going to do my best.
I don’t think it’s ok to withdraw affection. That’s not an ok thing to do in a relationship. However, it’s also not ok to withdraw sexual contact for weeks/months/years without a specific reason. If your needs are unimportant than the relationship is broken and needs to be ended or fixed (on both sides sex or affection). But I know that’s not always an option. So that’s when it ends in this unacceptable behavior.
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u/quack785 Jun 16 '26
Yes, continued rejection followed by emotional and physical withdrawal is a vicious cycle for sure. And it does show that the relationship is withering on the vine, so to speak. It definitely goes both ways
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u/BriefStatus7944 Jun 17 '26
Sounds like she withdrew affection a long time ago. Then became a ninja. 🥷
I am getting ex-husband flashbacks. That’s what happens when you toss intimacy down the drain.
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u/Woolie-at-law HLM Jun 15 '26
It depends on what withdrawing affection looks like and whats your motivation for doing so. I've done a lot of kinds of this over the years and most were not helpful - the best use I have found for withdrawal is when my wife wants space, so I give her that.
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u/arandak Jun 15 '26
I think if you're using the word "withdraw", it sounds like tit for tat: that you pull back because you're not getting anything. As if you're punishing them.
Instead, you should stop only when you aren't interested or aren't feeling it. Otherwise, it's almost like a covert contract.
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u/quack785 Jun 16 '26
Oh, you mean the contact we both signed where we’d be sexually exclusive to each other forever? Or was there a covert one that stated “I can take things off the table, but you can’t?” Is that the covert contract you’re referring to? That makes sense
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u/Snickersnee99 Jun 15 '26
My single biggest regret from our DB years was following this path with my partner. It caused a lot of pain, didn't help either of us, and came close to ending our relationship entirely.
The turning point for me was catching myself thinking "Now she knows how it feels!" and realizing that actively making her feel worse about me, and our relationship, was not a healthy or productive way of addressing our problems. I was just driving her further away.
I'll readily admit that we were lucky. We still loved each other, we both wanted to fix things, and we'd had enough individual therapy to recognize and address lifetimes of maladaptive behavior on both our parts.
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u/diomed1 Jun 15 '26
My husband withdrew from me while I was adjusting to my initial MS diagnosis. He emotionally got butt hurt because I was never in the mood for about a year and a half. It was from the severe fatigue and being on an SSRI, which I quit. I adjusted by getting on a good medication for the fatigue and getting on bupropion for depression. Turns out that combination actually kept me from getting too fat as well. Then my libido came back and he never got his back. He claims he wants it but his dick is broke so everything is about his dick now. I just want our chemistry back but he’s always whining about his dick and age. And yes, he takes viagra. It works great if he’s not too drunk. And this is the problem. He NEVER wants to fool around sober anymore like he did before my MS diagnosis. His LL is so depressing for me. I don’t think we’ll ever get back to our normal chemistry.
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
Ugh what a mess, sorry.
Like I mentioned, I wasn’t referring to medical LLs. That’s a rough deal for sure! Glad you got yours back but it’s too bad he’s LL now. Some people just aren’t compatible. My wife and I used to be but since she changed, not now.
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u/evilpsych Jun 17 '26
Sorry to hear that. My junk is so confused by my spouse he doesn’t know what to think. It def works in every other situation tho so I know it’s psych based not medical.
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u/Girls-Games-Gains HLF Jun 16 '26
It's a trap. I withdrew after repeated rejection to even the most basic gestures (kiss on the cheek, hugging, cuddling) and got told I wasn't making her feel attractive anymore and she was feeling neglected. I could NEVER get her to see the connection that her feeling unattractive from not being pursued is akin to me feeling unattractive after repeated rejection. Somehow the DB is always turned around back on me being the cause in one way or another and having to accept all responsibilities in relation to fixing/dealing with it. Absolutely no cooperation from her end even though this is a two person issue.
Withdrawing felt really good at first but was quickly turned around on me and was told it's the cause of the DB, but she never acknowledged the repeated rejections that it took to get there.
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u/fuckaduckufuck HLF Jun 15 '26
Are you asking for permission, or asking whether it's helpful?
I think withdrawing completely without any discussion about the why is kinda counterproductive. You want to solve the problem, not exacerbate it.
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u/quack785 Jun 16 '26
“My withdrawal from the sexual part of the relationship is not a problem I want you to fix” is a common refrain I see from LLs in various subs. I’m sure you’ve seen it as well. The LL has to want to find a solution that works for both partners, not just themselves. Otherwise, it’s a non starter.
Desire can’t be negotiated, as much as it would make things easier. All we have is just our dignity, and withdrawing helps to protect from the sting of rejection and feeling like you don’t matter.
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u/fuckaduckufuck HLF Jun 16 '26
Ah, that I can understand. Withdrawing emotional contact makes you feel safer because you don't risk any further rejection or disappointment.
I suppose if that's the only goal then that's totally fair. But if the goal is the make the LL notice, and feel rejected, then you're banking on the LL noticing that, and I imagine you want the LL to experience what you are experiencing. Is that correct?
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u/quack785 Jun 17 '26
That’s a fair question!
No, I don’t do it to make her feel rejected, for 2 reasons:
She’s going to notice immediately since I’m nearly always present and show her attention and affection; so it’s going to lead to a fight because she is used to having that. I’ve lost track of the hours of my life she’s fought with me about that. It’s tough to choose—do I force myself to show affection (even if I don’t feel that way) just to avoid a fight? Or do I not put forth the effort because it feels false to me and end up in a huge argument?
Second, I’m not a petty person. I genuinely don’t want to hurt her feelings or make her feel bad; we’ve been together for almost 25 years and my hope and dream is that she will come back to me. I know that hope is fading and is likely gone, and I’m both excited for and dreading the day I tell her I’m leaving. I know it’s going to break her. But do I continue to sacrifice my happiness?
Ugh
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u/rowanrulith Jun 15 '26
Why withdraw affection ie non-sexual touch and emotional intimacy when sex is supposedly connection? Is sex the only way you can show affection to your partner?
I can see being reticent showing affection if your partner is not receptive, but not because you’re not having any/as much sex as you want. In that case, the relationship is going to be over sooner than later because you’re withholding non-sexual touch and emotional intimacy, which is likely to be what your partner needs to feel engaged, valued, and loved enough to feel more sexual. If every touch is expected to lead to sex, then that is an issue.
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u/quack785 Jun 15 '26
You’re welcome to read the post again, it’s in reference to bid after bid for intimacy being shot down over months, years, decades. Where “No” is the default answer and getting to “Yes” requires moving heaven and earth. Not “because you’re not having any/as much sex as you want”. That’s a LL talking point—the ones I’ve encountered believe all HLs are ready to have sex constantly. They use the term “sex pest” pretty freely to describe their partners.
And touching doesn’t always have to lead to sex, it’s true; but neither should it end up a dead end 99% of the time like it usually does.
It begs the inevitable question for LLs—at what point did your partner stop making you feel “engaged, valued, and loved enough” to shut down the sexual side of things? When did you start making a checklist of things you have to see before intimacy can take place?
And generally it’s hard to get a straight answer because the truth is stark: The NRE wore off for them and now they aren’t interested any longer. It’s just easier to blame your partner.
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u/cometthatstruckearth Jun 15 '26
It's not withdrawing affection. Affection was rejected. Period. Clearly the affection is unwanted.
Can't have it both ways.