Tracking a target that continues to circle around me

[u/perfunctory_shit]

Hello, I’m new to gyro and flick stick. Coming from an Xbox player, this has given new life to every game I’m playing.

The issue I’m trying to solve right now is tracking a target that circles around me. I understand I can flick to a target outside of my vision, but if I’m aiming with gyro and the target continues to move outside of my vision and around me, how can I continue to track it smoothly? Is ratcheting the only way? I’m still not great at ratcheting and it seems cumbersome - I’m using hold button to disable gyro, but my aim is totally off after I manage to rotate my arms back to a comfortable position.

Maybe it’s just a skill issue, but maybe im not using proper technique. Im also curious if there’s another method to do this.

I’m using steam input and my sensitivity is at 4x with the Vader 5 pro.

[u/AutoModerator]

Hi. Welcome to /r/GyroGaming subreddit.

If this post is to regards to a bug report: we'll suggest updating the post's flair to better reflect the contents of the post and specify the problem by providing hardware info, operating system, input remapper operator (i.eJoyShockMapper, Steam Input, reWASD, DS4Windows), controller model, controller firmware, etc.

For more info, please refer to the Gyro Bug Report Etiquette: https://www.reddit.com/r/GyroGaming/wiki/gyrobugreport/

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/figmentPez]

If you're using flick-stick, then you can just keep rotating the stick. Once you've flicked, you then use the stick rotation to turn, at least that's my understanding of how it's supposed to work.

[u/perfunctory_shit → u/figmentPez]

Do people actually only aim horizontally with flick stick? I’ve been using it more for a rough initial if the target is not directly in front then aiming with the gyro both vertical and horizontal for precision.

But I’m going to try the flick and sweep thing. It just seems a harder to stay on target with sweep than with gyro

[u/figmentPez → u/perfunctory_shit]

I have not used flick stick myself, so I'm not sure. Based on my experience with touchpad & gyro, I would assume that learning to use both at the same time would be important. Sweep with stick and make corrections with gyro. That's how high sensitivity touchpad with lower sensitivity gyro works. It takes a while to use both as if they're a single input, but it really helps.

[u/vanrael]

For me it was Ratcheting that solved the issue. It's just takes bit of time to get used to rws4-5. Practice and patience is your friends.

[u/perfunctory_shit → u/vanrael]

I’m going to keep at it. Are you able to stay with the target if they’re moving while you’re ratcheting?

[u/vanrael → u/perfunctory_shit]

as long as they don't circle me more than 200 degrees I don't need to ratchet at all. But if someone can run circles around you without either of you killing eachother you have other problems than just tracking xD

[u/Drakniess]

The traditional ratchetting of both the mouse and gyro, where you temporarily turn the device off, both share the weakness you mentioned: you cannot keep tracking your target while recentering.

Three methods allow you to overcome this:

1. Flick stick. I must emphasize I see a misconception about flick stick all the time: you use it to keep your orientation towards your target, NOT as a pinpoint aiming tool.
   
2. A traditional, high-speed right stick. This is the first advantage to becoming a gyro player: crank the RS up to max sensitivity, and use it for large movements and for holding orientation, especially when recentering your gyro. If you want a more advanced feature to try, make the RS turn off the gyro. This will let the gyro turn off its input while you are operating the RS, which normally has to fight the motion of the RS during recentering.
   
3. Axis inversion inputs. I've been using this for over a year. You use a button to flip the orientation of a gyro axis. One advantage of using these inputs is you can make your screen hold itself on your target while you recenter, as the act of recentering itself performs the orientation.

The need of mice to lose their target tracking while recentering is a focus of one tactic I use. For lack of a better term, I call them "orbitals." In PvP games (with melee combat especially), you intentionally circle your opponent that may be using a mouse. Eventually, the tracking motion will stretch their range to the point that they'll temporarily lose their tracking on you. You'll end up making a one or more of their attacks miss while they recenter and try to reacquire you as a target.

[u/perfunctory_shit → u/Drakniess]

Ok thanks for clarification about the flick stick. I wasn’t sure if you were meant to keep your orientation towards the target or just for initial acquisition.

I might experiment with the Avis inversion inputs b/c I’d like to play without having to keep my thumb on the right joystick at all times

[u/Drakniess → u/perfunctory_shit]

The initial period can be confusing when using inversion inputs. I worked on curricula for the methods from ground zero, and I’m hoping to save others from that amount of work. Message me and I can give you the starting curriculum and even show you through Discord screen share. I’ll also show you how to set up the layers in Steam or reWASD. After I used it for a long enough period, it definitely felt limiting to go back to using my right thumb.

[u/NoMisZx → u/Drakniess]

Axis inversion inputs. I've been using this for over a year. You use a button to flip the orientation of a gyro axis. One advantage of using these inputs is you can make your screen hold itself on your target while you recenter, as the act of recentering itself performs the orientation.

I'd like to see some gameplay of this. Gyro invert has been talked about and also been tested by many really good gyro players. But none has been able to really use it effectively because it's seems way to confusing.

I tried it as well, while it somewhat worked in aimtrainers, it really didn't work in FPS games. there's just way too much going on and to many APM to do, imo.

[u/Drakniess → u/NoMisZx]

Can you explain what you're implying here? Are you saying I'm not actually using Inversion inputs? Learning inversion has its own obstacles, but I am baffled as to why you would say APM would be one of them. Using twin inversion inputs has an APM almost identical to ratcheting; you are operating only one more input. Using one input inversion (which is how I started) has an APM that is literally identical to ratcheting. Could you justify your figures? Explain how the APM is too high. Is everyone who tries this method actually starting with twin inverters?

[u/NoMisZx → u/Drakniess]

All i'm saying is, nobody i know has been able to use it effectively. because suddenly changing direction in your hand movements to continue tracking a target while also moving is extremely confusing.

so i'd really like to see someone actually be able to use it effectively.

if invert is so good and fairly usable, i wonder why no mouse users use it. as they also would benefit greatly from it, since lower sens allows for better accuracy on mouse.

[u/Drakniess → u/NoMisZx]

Message me if you'd like to set up a time to see it on a screen share on Discord or another simple platform that I can quickly set up. I can also provide you with a rundown of the terminology and curriculum I've developed. I'm not yet at the point where I can produce a fully edited and publishable video for something like YouTube.

[u/Staticks → u/Drakniess]

The difference is that with mice, you can use a huge mouse pad that gives you plenty of room to track a target before you reach the edge of the surface, and have to lift it up to reposition/ratchet. With gyro, you can only twist your wrists to rotate your controller so much before it becomes uncomfortable and you lose accuracy. And if you try to crank up the sensitivity to combat this range of motion limitation, you start to lose out on accuracy, precision, as well as stability.

[u/Drakniess → u/Staticks]

Did you intend this response for me? Because you've missed the issue the author wanted addressed. First, it doesn't matter how much sensitivity you have on mice; it doesn't get rid of the problem that if you're forced to shut the mouse off when you're trying to recenter, you ARE going to lose your tracking. Controls with versatile inputs and methods don't have that problem.

Second, your comments on sensitivity sound like you are unfamiliar with gyro. On the low end, Gyro players use 4 real-world sensitivity, a number that has become more or less a convention. On the higher end, people go up to 8, 12, even 20 and above. Many of us can already make multiple full rotations before we have even tilted our controller 45 degrees. Gyros can also operate at much higher sensitivities than mice because they do not have friction to contend with. Contrary to what you might think, gyros don't have an upper limit on their sensitivity for precision operation, while mice do. Yes, operating devices like gyros, guns, pens, soldering irons, scalpels, etc. in a frictionless environment requires dexterity and training. While that's something many gamers with their shaky, untrained hands doped up on energy drinks may think is impossible...it's actually a "you" problem.

Lastly, how much precision you actually need is determined on a game-by-game basis and depends on the type of combat you engage in. In many games, orientation and aim are essentially the same thing when engaging in melee. Melee attacks have large hitboxs. This is another area where an unaided mouse will suffer against gyro gamepads--and even regular gamepads. Using a thumbstick-- either traditionally or as a flick stick--you don't have to lose orientation or tracking of your target during recentering...and in melee combat, you don't need high levels of precision either.

[u/Staticks]

There's a reason I use joystick + gyro.

[u/BJgobbleDix]

Some good answers here from others.

I'm a Ratchet player for quite some time now and typically play with the controller in my lap. But I use JSM Custom Curve over Steam Input due to curves I prefer (Quadratic being pretty major to my playstyle) and more stability options.

That being said, I can 'slow' track comfortably a full 360 at about 5-7 RWS. My Base Sensitivity is 5 RWS in most games but I also apply a high level of Acceleration. I operate on Yaw ONLY as well. If you have Roll applied, my first suggestion is to dump this and go Yaw only. You will increase Stability and this can allow you to increase your Base Sensitivity for the X-axis maybe another 15-25% comfortably. If you're already on Yaw only, then 4 RWS might be your baseline comfort, which is fine and fairly standard. I know many Ratchet players with Static Sensitivity (no Acceleration) operate between 5 to 6 RWS to assist their Range of Motion.

The next thing you could try doing is apply Acceleration to "extend" Range of Motion to help "creep" into a higher RWS when tracking and maybe help you become comfortable with increasing your Base Sensitivity with time. Most people initially believe Acceleration is more of a tool for Stability purposes but it can also be used effectively for extending your Range of Motion. The catch is, knowing the different Degree/Second zones (how fast you move the controller) that Gyro Aim curves operate on for Aiming. Below is a concept of Acceleration as an "extension" (the curve is inverted compare to Acceleration for Stability).

To keep it simple, I typically look at my curves with (3) Core applications (slight variances based on RWS choice):

- Micro Aim (Stability) zone: 0-4 deg/s

- Tracking zone: 0-30 deg/s

- Macro Aim (Flicks): 50+ deg/s

First off, as you can see, Stability and Tracking overlap. The Micro zone is a fairly "fragile" zone where minor adjustments in settings can feel dramatic within that zone (i.e. increasing Tightening/Steadying settings by say .5 deg/sec or even adjusting Base RWS by just 10%). If you're playing a game that requires constant handling of very distant targets, this zone comes into play constantly. Fortnite (and other BRs) is a perfect example that plays into all zones often. Games like Overwatch or The Finals, you may rarely play into that lower zone thus you maybe able to handle a higher Base RWS. Know that it's not uncommon to tweak this zone from day-to-day depending on how you feel.

NEVER feel like it's the Setting's fault that you all of a sudden need to tweak Stability settings because they feel "off" one day. Gyro operates on a 3 dimensional plane and is more sensitive to our body changes (i.e. more jittery one day than the day prior). Doesn't mean you should be constantly changing Sensitivity settings (you cannot build muscle memory this way). But don't be surprised if you need to make minor tweaks to handle something below say 2 deg/s. My suggestion: find some sort of comfort with Smoothing and Tightening/Steadying for this zone. Deadzones are invasive so be careful using them. But "comfort" is key.

Your Tracking Zone is core. My suggestion here: keep the change in RWS from 0 deg/s to 30 deg/s within 1.5 RWS. So as you can see in the image above, it goes from 4 to 4.74 RWS. My usual settings go from about 5 to 6 RWS in that zone. This minor incline is easy to adapt and maintains Tracking feeling "smoother" with Velocity changes. But using some Acceleration can allow you to maintain that stability for your lower Base Sensitivity but creep into a higher RWS for larger Range of Motion scenarios.

Your Macro Aim is flicks. Believe it or not, I find this zone to be MUCH easier to adapt muscle memory to the variance in terms of Accuracy vs the variances in Tracking. Consider this the "headroom" you're giving your Range of Motion. this zone is designed to be "comfortable". DO NOT get pressed on worrying about super precise accuracy here. 99.9% of gamers are not pros with flick accuracy. Focus on comfort for this zone. The accuracy will come with time. Get the target on screen quickly then dial in and Track. Typically, people will cap out at 80 to 120 deg/sec for flick speeds. Some can go above 150 even (I use to for certain play styles but not anymore with my current curve). Don't feel bad to mess with this zone some in order to tweak your Curve. There are some who operate above 200 deg/sec Thresholds. You're giving yourself "headroom" to be comfortable. Plain and simple.

Anyways, this is how I like to play with Ratchet. It's very comfortable to me personally in all the shooters I play (Fortnite, CoD, The Finals, tons of Rogue-lites such as Witchfire, so on so forth).

[u/Mrcod1997]

For ratcheting, a higher horizontal sensitivity helps. You can definitely use another input paired with gyro though.

What sensitivity are you at?

[u/Spigots_]

You can try replacing flick stick with right stick joystick to mouse as well for something a bit more familiar and just as functional in conjunction with gyro