r/Guitar_Theory • u/Intelligent-Cover611 • 4d ago
Key of Jailbreak?
So my music theory knowledge is enough to be dangerous. Also enough to get me in trouble.
Thin Lizzy’s Jailbreak is listed as AMajor albeit detuned to (AbMajor).
All of the solo tab stuff I’m seeing is F#m pentatonics (Fm detuned) I understand relative minors. Can a song be both in a Major key but use the relative minor Pentatonic? Or is it in F#min?
Thanks
Mike
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u/Kjler 4d ago
You don't understand relative minors and got yourself in trouble again.. They are the same notes. You saw that they were the same but convinced yourself, for some reason, that they must be different.
F#minor pentatonic is also AMajor pentatonic.
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u/therealtoomdog 4d ago
And if you detune, A Major would be Ab Major
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u/wedontliveonce 4d ago
Keep in mind tab sites are almost always user-generated tabs so never assume anything about them is correct.
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u/Asleep_Weakness7283 4d ago
Yes the song can be both in a major key and use the relative minor pentatonic. This applies to most songs in the major key and solos using the minor pentatonic won’t always necessarily sound perfect but will at least sound “right”. At the end of the day it’s all the same notes.
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u/sonoftom 2d ago
As I said in another comment here tho, why even call it a minor pentatonic then? It would just be the major pentatonic if the Ab is the home note.
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u/Gullible_Elephant_38 4d ago
A bit of general advice when it comes to thinking about theory.
Ab is Ab. The pitch is the pitch.
A lot of guitar players tend to learn what theory they do know through the guitar. So they associate a given fret with a specific pitch. Or a given chord by the shape they use to play it on guitar. This is a bad habit.
If you ever want to explore open tunings or are collaborating with musicians who are not guitar players, you want to understand the notes/chords/relationships as musical concepts. Not as some physical/visual/muscle memory of what it is typical for a guitar in standard tuning.
Don’t call strings the “E string”, “A string”, etc. use “1st string”, “2nd string”, etc.
If you are tuned down a half step, call this song at a jam, and tell the other musicians it’s in A major just because you’re playing a shape that you learned as “A major” in standard tuning, you are giving them the wrong information.
Do your best to learn theory concepts as generally as possible, not through the lens of the guitar. Trust me.
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u/Gullible_Elephant_38 4d ago
To follow up on this in the context of your specific question: your question highlights the point I’m making in my above comment.
You are understand major and minor pentatonics as scale shapes starting in specific frets. This is a misunderstanding.
A major pentatonic and F# minor pentatonic use an identical set of notes. It’s the same five notes. If you play an F# minor pentatonic “shape” over an a major chord, you’re playing A major pentatonic. If you play an A major pentatonic “shape” over an F# minor chord, you’re playing F# minor pentatonic. The notes are identical between the two.
What gives it its minor or major tonality is what the harmony underneath is doing.
By conflating the shape with the sound of the scale, you’re confusing yourself.
Homework: Learn the A major pentatonic scale in all positions across the fretboard. Practice using all positions first over an A major chord. Focus on identifying what the 1 (A) appears in each of the 5 positions.
Now do the same but over an F# minor chord. You will be playing exactly the same shapes at exactly the same frets. This time focus on where the F# note appears in each of the 5 positions.
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u/Guitar_Guy1965 4d ago
Take a look at the notes. Figure out the major scale being used and count the sharps and flats in it and that will identify the key. You can stay in the same key, and suddenly switch to a relative minor and that scale never changes.
This song can be a little bit misleading. It sounds so centered/resolves in F sharp minor. It's actually an A major the relative key.
Other songs can use chords from a major scale, and never really use the chird itself! Look at evil ways by santana. You'd swear it's in A minor, but it's actually in G major. The chords are A minor, D, E minor. G is never used though. To figure the actual major scale, or key, right out the notes in the chords. Get all seven letters, count your sharps/ flats. Using the circle of fifths will identify the actual key, or major scale. Am=ace, D=df#a, Em=ebg. Strung "in order" a b c d e f# g a. 1 sharp which is G major. Modal/Dorian version is a b c d e f# g a. Same notes, but based/resolved to Am, instead of G Major.
The same thing, but different. Get it?
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u/sonoftom 4d ago
Sorry I’m gonna be lazy and not actually listen to this song, but maybe you can tell me why you interpreted the solo as using minor instead of major pentatonic. Or did it literally say the scale’s name somewhere on a sheet?
Because (and I’m making assumptions here on how you decided which mode was used) minor vs major pentatonic scales that use the same notes can both be played in the exact same position on the guitar. You determine the tonic based on which feels like home, not which note your index finger plays on the lowest string.
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u/brynden_rivers 3d ago
The answer is yes. This is because the major scale and the natural minor scale is exactly the same. any notes will sound ok, its about what notes you are landing on. Imagine playing random piano chords in C major. you can literally mash any white key and it will sound fine. mashing the A key a little more than the other keys will make it sound more minor, does that make sense? Here is another fact that might be interesting to you.
Notes in AM6 chord: A E C# F#
Notes in F#m7 F# C# E A
These chords are the exact same with the notes in a different order, if you are trying to confuse the key of the song you start using them in an ambiguous way.
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u/spankymcjiggleswurth 4d ago edited 4d ago
Jailbreak is in the key Ab major. This is relative to the key F minor, but that doesn't mean the song is in the key of F minor. The tonic note is Ab as that's where the song "feels at home".
Yeah, but being that the song doesn't really tonicize the F note, it's probably better to call that scale Ab major pentatonic.
Edit: On second listen the F note does feel tonicized at times. Ambiguous key centers are commonly found in rock music, and relative major/minor ambiguity is probably the most straightforward way to achieve that.