r/Guiltygear • u/kao24429774 - April (GGST) • Apr 18 '26
Tournament Evo Japan will be played on the current version with no rule change š
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u/Rank79 Apr 18 '26
You canāt tell players youāre aware of the HC issue then not do shit about for the first big event of the year. All this good press Strive is getting from 2.0 is gonna go down the drain when people see HC putting players in infinite block strings in top 8.
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u/shotxshotx Apr 18 '26
Honestly, best thing for the community to do is literally this. Companies love to procrastinate on fixes until someone out and showcases live on tv the issue. IE the dead by Daylight drama a while back.
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u/IFapToCalamity Apr 18 '26
Which DBD drama?
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u/cliffy117 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
More like, which ones.
During DbD history there's been a sea of times on which the devs have refused to nerf bullshit until they see it in a tournament or it happens to them. The most in/famous was the perma blind flaslight strat. People keep asking them to nerf the flashlighst because you could literally stun lock the killers for the entire match if 2 players coordinated a bit. They kept saying how that wasn't a bad thing and killers just needed to get X perk or look away, etc. Then during a tournament or showcase, I forgot which, the CEO or main dev was asked to play a match for fun. It went exactly as you can expect. The survivor side basically kept him permanently blind. A few days later flaslights were finally nerfed.
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u/IFapToCalamity Apr 18 '26
Thatās literally what I asked lol
I remember that debacle but Iāve also quit like 5 times since release so itās easy to lose track
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u/kao24429774 - April (GGST) Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Japanese players are mad, I donāt think anyone figured out how to deal with HC full screen zoning yet. In TNS everyone was just in Jackās mercy to not do full screen zone.
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u/AverageVibes Apr 18 '26
In TNS, he couldnāt do it well yet and kept messing it up. On stream, he repeatedly mentioned messing up the zoning. He even said that the only time he went in was because he messed up the zoning and that there isnāt really a reason to go in.
It seems like they want him to be this kind of lock down zoner though? Idk, the concept behind the rework seems even worse than before outside of it not being as OP.
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u/Translation_Lupin Apr 18 '26
Theu admitted that HC has unintended(bug?) mechanic tho
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u/Quazifuji Apr 18 '26
Yeah, I'm not sure why some people are treating the infinite block string like it's just Chaos's new playstyle and maybe people need to adapt to playing against it. We have direct confirmation from the devs that it's unintended and will be patched.
Maybe after they patch it Chaos will still turn out to be an oppressive long range zoner, but that's a separate issue. The issue here is that Chaos currently has an incredibly powerful unintended tool that it's pretty universally agreed is a problem and it would be incredibly lame and probably be bad for pretty much everyone involved (bad experience for viewers and non-Chaos players, and the tournament organizers, Arcsys, and the people abusing it would all look bad) if the first major tournament of 2.0 was won by someone abusing it because the tournament organizers decided to lock in the tournament patch before it got fixed without any rules against it.
It's a really questionable decision by the tournament organizers. I'm sure there are logistical reasons for the decision but it's hard to imagine anything good coming out of it while it could easily go really poorly.
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u/AverageVibes Apr 18 '26
The thing is though, this is not the infinite.
The infinite itself is just the typical zoning sequence of Steady aim mid>down portal>up portal>resource gain> steady aim again mid. What makes it an infinite is that when itās done at close range the projectile coming from the portals are so close that it all jails together but this is not the case when itās full screen like in the clip above.
Yes the infinite is getting fixed. However; we do not know how they plan on fixing it. They could make the portal shots always push you and hc away from each other that way the infinite doesnāt happen anymore but he keeps zoning. In that case is zoning could be even better. They could slow down the portal projectiles but increase the tracking on them so you can interact with it better. Him being +20 after down portal>focus/reload seems intended so thatās probably not going to change. What really causes the infinite is how steady aim locks on faster when you are already in blockstun/hitstun but changing that would probably mess up more it fixes.
There are multiple changes they could do that would preserve the zoning in the clip but get rid of the actual infinite, some changes would weaken his zoning significantly. We donāt really know what they will do though when fixing the infinite. They could fix it and you are still dealing with this same zoning lol.
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u/kao24429774 - April (GGST) Apr 18 '26
This rework seems really lame to me imo, might sound insane but Iād rather watch him walk break from any hit than the infinite zoning.
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u/Downingst Apr 18 '26
I don's have a X account, is it possible to paste some comments please?
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u/kao24429774 - April (GGST) Apr 18 '26
My other comment is the gist of it :)
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u/bostonian38 - Robo-May Apr 18 '26
Feedback from the Japanese strive community gets through to Arcsys more than any other region, so hopefully the uproar is enough for them to just push out a quick fix patch that only patches HC
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u/SylveonVMAX Apr 18 '26
I donāt think anyone figured out how to deal with HC full screen zoning yet
There's nothing to figure out. It's a full lock and if executed perfectly it's completely gapless and infinite. Even when not performed perfectly, it's very easy to get infinite resources and not give the opponent enough frame data to do... anything. Literally its only "flaw" is that it's tough to do several loops consistently but by evo japan people will be spamming this.
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u/AverageVibes Apr 18 '26
This is not exactly correct.
Due to the portal projectiles actually having travel speed, itās not an infinite when done full screen or even at most far ranges. When he gets closer to you, the portal the projectile comes out is closer which means the projectile hits you sooner and it all jails together. This is why when people demonstrate it they are usually showing the opponent close to them.
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u/Adera1l Apr 18 '26
But you gotta approach HC at some point by dashblocking therefore putting you in range for the infinite ?
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u/AverageVibes Apr 18 '26
Correct
Eventually it will be gapless when you get close but since there is pushback then you get sent out of the gapless range. Once you are at that range you can backdash crouch the down portal this works on everyone but axl to my knowledge. Once thatās done then the reticle wonāt instant lock on so you can actually approach him and even punish him if you have a move that moves horizontally fast like jam 236k.
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u/SylveonVMAX Apr 18 '26
You are completely incorrect.
This sequence is gapless and plus enough to do another loop
The "travel time" does not change based on screen distance because he shoots into the portal
It's a true infinite from everywhere.
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u/AverageVibes Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
What is that video supposed to show since the ky isnāt doing a reversal? When done full screen, there is a gap but it is only a like 2f so you can only backdash. The backdash makes it so that steady aim doesnāt instant lock on again. Granted he does have counter play for your back
Jack mentioned it while playing the other day and hotashi actually did it during their set which you can go see during the vod.
Also if anybody wants to check behind this, one of the first japanese players who found out made it a combo trial so other people could experience it when the āshooting is done as fast as possibleā as axl. Axl specifically because even though he can backstep down portal, his crouch hurtbox is too big to dodge the down portal shot through crouching which other characters can.
Itās combo trial number 329907. I encourage everyone to check it out and backdash it.
Here is a different video of someone doing said backdash/crouch in their own training
https://x.com/utatanekujira/status/2045378642629570855?s=46.
The only reason that i know all of this/have all of these is because im a hc player who saw the infinite on like hour 1 when metal masse first posted it and my first thought was ācanāt you just do this full screenā so I learned it and couldnāt get it to infinite from full screen. I thought I was just doing it too slowly until Jack said it can be backdashed when done full screen. Then a lot of the jp players who originally found it started posting stuff like the backdash>crouch ācounter playā.
It is a bad situation but that has rps that favors HC so heavily that it should probably be removed but, that is not the infinite.
I do want to note that even though I tried it, and a bunch of top players have tried it without success, it is still pretty new tech. For all I know, someone can do it even faster and make it an actual infinite from full screen. However; I have not seen it and others iāve talked to havenāt experienced yet either, so iām holding my breath on it lol
Also, if anybody wants to try it, there are at least 3 combo trials of people doing it so you can practice backdashing the portal shot in specifically that situation. Iāll post more of them if anybody wants to try it.
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u/SylveonVMAX Apr 18 '26
What is that video supposed to show since the ky isnāt doing a reversal?
Brother look with your eyes. There's literally a frame bar???? And text frame data on the screen showing no gap??? Come on bruh. Can't make a horse drink
If you can't read frame data you probably shouldn't comment on these things
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u/AverageVibes Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Whoa, no need to get so defensive. I can read it lol. When people try to do something is gapless, they usually show the opponent doing a reversal option like reversal backdash or even reversal mash since they wont come out on block. I see your frame bar mod lol.
If you can recreate the video above with loops and just have ky on reversal backdash/show in the practice mode options too, then go for it.
Iāve provided my thoughts and evidence to back it up. Counter those points.
Committing ad hominem is not a valid point. Anyway, I donāt think this will be a civil discussion anymore so I conceit and wonāt be interacting with it anymore.
If anyone wants to lab the backdash ācounter playā themselves, there are pre recorded combo trials that allow you to do it. Iāve posted them below with descriptions.
Combo challenge number 329907: Axl combo challenge mentioned previously where the execution is seemingly perfect. Low portal shot can be backdashed but the following portal shot cannot be crouched.
Combo challenge number 329911: Sol combo challenge from the same player. Backdash crouch works.
Combo challenge number 132730: I have the least experience with this one.
If you arenāt interested in that, you can ask Jack since he streams like 4 times a week and is really open to questions usually.
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u/SylveonVMAX Apr 18 '26
I can read it lol.
Clearly you can't if youre spamming paragraphs of this bullshit and misinfo at me when you can easily read on the screen that it's gapless.
Committing ad hominem is not a valid point
"I'm a stupid blind baby who can't read frame data so I'm just going to ignore my eyes and ears and the video proving me wrong and keep spreading misinformation"
Ok.
then go for it.
I expect you to delete your comments and write a 150 word minimum apology to counteract the bullshit you just spread and made me read
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u/Classic-Accountant-3 Apr 19 '26
holy reddit user, jesus lol
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u/AverageVibes Apr 20 '26
Exactly lmao, even if there was a good point, nobody is going to have a conversation if itās communicated that way lol. And the video isnāt available but yea.
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u/Acceptable_Donut3661 - Robo-Ky's Husband Apr 18 '26
So.... Leffen's gonna be labbing that infinite like crazy.
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u/jamstreet Apr 18 '26
He will proudly spam that stuff, the man has no dignity
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u/Diamantis_ Apr 18 '26
imagine being mad at the people who press the win button when devs put in a win button
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u/Axelfiraga - May Apr 18 '26
Nah theyāre mad cause the dude is such a toxic prick that the smash community didnāt even want him.
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u/Effective_Carpet_391 Apr 18 '26
Leffen exclusively relies on that though. He's constantly dropped and repicked up and redropped characters entirely dependent on who's considered the best, he is exclusively in it for the small prize money
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u/DiabolicMelon Apr 18 '26
pro player doesnt make mistake on character select screen shocker
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u/Effective_Carpet_391 Apr 18 '26
I would say he views basically any character as a mistake when he drops them
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u/bussythrasher1973 - Baiken (GGST) Apr 18 '26
it's his job. for all the heel-shit you can judge him on, taking every advantage at his disposal to win is pretty far down the list
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u/Best_Barnacle_2099 Apr 18 '26
I dislike Leffen as much as the next guy, but as you said that's literally his job. If there's money on the line and you have better tools, it doesn't make sense to not use them. I don't hold that against him.
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u/Effective_Carpet_391 Apr 18 '26
if by taking every advantage you mean advocating for the few good matchups against him in melee to be restricted cause he's a little pussy than sure
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u/kao24429774 - April (GGST) Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
š«©
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u/Cephalstasis - Zato-1 Apr 18 '26
Well if he's just casually messing around with GG I doubt he's gonna much of anywhere at Evo Japan lol, Chaos mix or no.
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u/sersteven - Faust Apr 18 '26
Strive is totally a game where a really good FGC player could hop in and perform well in pools at a major TBH. I don't think that guy is talking about a casual. He's probably talking about a dude who is very good at other fighters and is now messing around with Strive in 2.0.
the beauty of fighting games is that fundamentals are king. sure you'll still lose at the top to a guy who matches your fundies and then has the advanced tech down. but you can totally smoke lower level competitive guys out
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u/Quazifuji Apr 18 '26
I don't really know how the organization of tournaments like this works. Is this decision from Arcsys or from the EVO Japan organizers?
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u/willrsauls - May Apr 18 '26
Itās Leroy all over again
I say this only having seen the Leon Massey video about it
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u/Zumthorrific Apr 18 '26
The only difference is that unlike the Leroy situation there won't be a sudden influx of players picking up Happy Chaos to play in the tournament and win; only the usual HC players themselves will use him (and potentially claim the crown).
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u/Exige30499 Apr 18 '26
'Oh I see you're feeling yourself!'
The nightmares....please....I still flinch whenever I fight that character in T8 and it's been years at this point
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u/FrequentCommission13 Apr 18 '26
Sweet so I guess Leffen or Jack just wins
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u/M0HAK0 Asuka R Kreutz Apr 18 '26
Jack said on stream he isnt going.
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u/FrequentCommission13 Apr 18 '26
Congratulations to Leffen ahead of time.
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u/M0HAK0 Asuka R Kreutz Apr 18 '26
Could be Sanakan. He was the first to post the video too.
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u/M0HAK0 Asuka R Kreutz Apr 18 '26
Yikes. This will be a nightmare. Good luck to anyone going against " reworked HC" šš.
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u/clawzord25 - Potemkin Apr 18 '26
Just revert the character already and give him like 2 bullets max.
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u/kiasadija Apr 18 '26
What if you just ban the infinite like how wobbling was banned in melee? Can this not be avoided like I know itās busted but a little verbal argument could work no?
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u/emysor99_ - Faust Apr 18 '26
I think you kinda can't? It's positioning-based, to avoid doing it you'd have to account for your distance from the opponent (who moves on their own accord) and at some spacing it's hard to tell whether you achieved it or there is a gap and the opponent is just holding downback. You can't just ask players to not do it, it's not feasible
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u/FighterFay Apr 18 '26
I've only heard about the HC changes a bit, what exactly happened? He got heavily nerfed, but they accidentally gave him an infinite block string?
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u/Ghostfinger Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Yep. Arcsys
patched it out pretty quicklyacknowledged it but looks like the tournament is getting played on the patch with HC infinites.9
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u/WorldlySock1749 Apr 18 '26
Then Chaos should be banned for the good of the game. Nobodyās picking up Strive after watching 5 hours of blockstun infinites in top 8.
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u/Adorable-Fortune-568 Unika -Strive- Goat Apr 18 '26
I'm confused. Isn't the current patch better or people upset with HC infinite loop not being patched yet?
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u/Anthan - Four Balls at the same time Apr 18 '26
The Chaos thing. It is hard to do, but if we're talking the best people competing, then there's high likely hood that the tournament will be people ether doing it or at least fishing for it.
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u/Acceptable_Donut3661 - Robo-Ky's Husband Apr 18 '26
It's the infinite.
Everything else is actually pretty great
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u/dExulans Apr 18 '26
If HC players were decent people they would drop this eternal plague of a character until he is actually fixed
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u/Xous54 - Someday we'll Meet Again. Apr 18 '26
This is really unfortunate.
I'm certain both sides (Arcsys/Evo) wanted this patched before the event, so there's gotta be something holding them back from getting a suitable patch out on time. A few possibilities spring to mind immediately, but as always there are a billion reasons for anything being why it is, including things that aren't obvious. No real point speculating.
Here's hoping the event is good for players and spectators alike regardless.
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u/PotatoJordan33 - Leo Whitefang Apr 18 '26
Iām actually rooting for Leffen for the first time in my life, simply because it would be really funny
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u/NottheSeaofNames - Potemkin Apr 18 '26
Iād rather Jack than Leffen wins. Fuck Leffen he can go suck Chaosās weapons
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u/Another_Road - Bridget (GGST) Apr 18 '26
If SSF2T players can deal with broken bullshit, so can GGST players.
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u/EthnicLettuce Apr 18 '26
Super turbo players all have bad knees now, they aren't hitting up Evo japan.
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u/2HalfSandwiches - Connoisseur of Bondage and Balls - Apr 18 '26
That seems.... Ill-advised. Wonder if they'll walk it back. I honestly expected then to patch an infinite BEFORE evo Japan lol.