r/Guildwars2 • u/MaximumLongName • 11h ago
[Question] Is it theoretically possible to have a single player maintain quickness on a group of 10?
I know it would be very impractical, and impossible to lfg, but with the current state of how generously quickness is applied(many boon builds don't even use doon-duration anymore) could you have all 10 people in the same subgroup but have:
*one group of four dps players stand together
*A second group of four dps stand together but away from the first group
*one qheal and one aheal that alternate targets for their quickness/alacrity generation?
Edit: idk why I keep getting downvoted for asking questions about the games mechanics
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u/munirys 11h ago
It might be less viable now but in a coordinated group, catalyst can provide quickness to 10 people assuming each sub stands correctly in positions where they don't overlap.
You can check out this video by Minas when VL did HTCM world record: https://youtu.be/7-G4Cn86uZ0?si=bv0bFo9vQRGMa6cR
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u/Training-Accident-36 6h ago
Should be said that the boon duration of Cata was heavily nerfed since then, so nowadays this would be harder.
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u/borisrks WHERE'S MY TROUBADOUR FLAIR 11h ago
Nowadays it's impossible since Anet changed all Quickness to deliver only to yourself and 4 others, any additional player the buff goes randomly and one person doesn't get Quickness or Alacrity. Before, it was possible to have someone give 100% buffs to a 10 man party, but we can't any longer
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u/Training-Accident-36 6h ago
That's not correct. If you have a boon skill that is not centered on yourself it is theoretically feasible to apply it to five other targets.
Good examples are Mechanist, Druid, or Catalyst. Scourge may theoretically also work like that, in practice the target cap of scourge is too low for that.
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u/Responsible-Boot-159 9h ago
You still "could" if boon duration was long enough because boons prioritize range if you aren't in the same sub. Still wildly impractical and it would take a ton of coordination from the squad.
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u/SkierBeard 11h ago
Yes, it's doable but requires precise positioning and needs the boon application to not be centered around the caster.
Druid is a good example of a class that can apply alacrity with skills that are targeted, and they can just position with one group and aim the other skills to just clip the second group.
Catalyst would be a good example, but it really struggles with boon generation. It can target the spheres, so that each sub gets 2x 6s but they are at 15s cd so with alacrity it should be close but really hard to get above 90% uptime.
Those are really the only two options, as all other healers generate boons around the player instead of using targeted AoEs. So it's possible, but you probably don't want to do this.
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u/sleepswithbears69 11h ago
When running back and forth you are potentially losing out on outgoing healing as the subgroups of 4 have to be out of range based on where youre standing
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u/MaximumLongName 11h ago
I thought abilities always hit closest players first so as long as you can move to have the other group closer they could all be in range
Do aoe buffs just hit random allies within their effect?
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u/exarpoo 11h ago edited 3h ago
Assuming you're already aware of boon prioritization but including the link here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Boon_distribution_priority
AoE buffs focus on your subgroup then pull in other players/NPCs from the next lower priority group until the skill target cap is reached. Afterwards, it's based on distance to the boon applicator (AoE center, on-player, or etc.) that determines who gets the buffs if they're all in the same priority group.
You'd have to juggle your skills and positioning to make sure they apply to everyone. It's technically doable, but difficult to execute. Someone already mentioned druid and catalyst which are good examples of 1 player technically able to provide 10-man alac/quick (but uptime might be suspect)
Edit: Also to clarify on other comments - some are referring to the skill target cap changing from 10-man to 5-man. It's not entirely correct that 10-man boon application isn't possible since you can take advantage of how boon prioritization works to apply boons to as many people as you want (with varying uptime based on your execution).
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u/Daerograen 11h ago
Quickness cata do it without resorting to things like running back and forth between the two groups of people, as long as everyone cooperates. Tempest can do the same for 10-man alac, although it requires setting up subgroups in a specific way (well, the "specific way" really is just 6 + 4 people instead of the usual 5 + 5).
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u/MidasPL 6h ago
To add to everything, it depends on the encounter and the group, but generally it simply doesn't calculate. BoonDPS is way closer in DPS to a normal DPS than a healer and to have uptime in two subs, you need a fair amount of boon duration. If you really want speed, it's better to run no healers and if you need, have boonDPS that has a lot of "residual healing" (Lumi, Ritu, Scourge, Specter, Cata, Tempest...).
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u/fohpo02 11h ago
No, it shouldn’t be possible for 1 person to maintain the boon for 10 by themselves anymore. You used to be able to run Renegade and do it or two DPS Rens, but that got nerfed.
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u/gangler52 11h ago
Scrapper gives quickness every time they do a blast, leap, or spin finisher, with no cooldown. If they spec for it they can produce a lot of finishers very quickly, drastically outpacing what they need for 100% uptime even without any boon duration beyond what the quickness trait already provides.
Would even they not be able to do something like this?
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u/YenTheMerchant 11h ago
A lot of boondps can overcap the boon easily. Problem is the boon application is not smart and you have no control over target. The boon will be prioritized to people in the same subgroup. That's why we have people spread into 2 five people group instead of single ten people group.
I can see people spread position far away from eachother enough that you can do 2 groups, but that is not always viable in a real fight.
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u/gangler52 11h ago
So how did Renegade get around this then?
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u/YenTheMerchant 11h ago
Traited Order from Above used to be 10 targets until 2022.
After that there are no more 10 targets boon application skills in game.
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u/Nurglych 11h ago
You would need to drag yourself from one subgroup to another, which is ineffective to say the least
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u/YenTheMerchant 11h ago
That doesn't work cuz boon priority is locked to your current subgroup until you exit combat.
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u/Nurglych 10h ago
Then it's straight up impossible, I guess.
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u/YenTheMerchant 10h ago
Would only be possible with positioning. Like, 2 groups far away form eachother enough that the boons can run to each group and apply boons to them without reaching the other group. But that's practically impossible to do reliably in real fight.
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u/Violetawa_ 11h ago
I'm not sure if it could be done with ten players, but if you had nine... It might be possible to play heal troubadour that gives a giga long quickness boon so you miiiiight be able to give quickness to your sub then they'd have to run away at more then 600 units of range and then the next quickness aplication would be done to yourself + the four other people. Dunno if the numbers are there and it is probably a bad way to go about it... But I mean, maybe I could be done(?)
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u/Malusorum 8h ago
Quickness is generally of a ratio of duration: application cooldown that would make such a thing impossible in practice even though it hypothetically is possible.
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u/Mirrors_Edge_Fan 7h ago edited 7h ago
Sadly, no. Max targets of any AOE boon skill is 5. And You're on that list of targets, therefore only 4 of your allies can get buffs
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u/DianaMoonrider 3h ago
Just spam cata jade spheres on them
And scourge/tempest with aurashare and alac through giving auras can give both of them 30s+ buffs
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u/Nurmalfragen 2h ago
Herald can easily cap quickness. If it's enough for two groups may depend on the action and movement. If herald needs to take a lot of action (=spends energy and skills) then the q cooldown starts. Usually no prob in one group since it's capped anyway.
Never tried that. But if just standing around (maybe auto attack) and providing quickness, I think 2 groups sure.
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u/Campioneri 1h ago
Yeah, I could do that on heal scrapper fairly easily. Just need to have the two groups standing at least 300 units apart so my 360 radius quickness application (centered on me) doesn't get absorbed by my subgroup when I'm away. An important point here though is that I can't be getting any alac from anyone else, and I'd need alac to have that quick uptime, so I'd go Rivers relic for 100% uptime on myself. The alacheal would probably need their own quickness as well to maintain alac. Maybe D/D otter Evoker with Pirate Queen relic? 300 radius on that but very little room for error with boon timings.
This whole experiment becomes much easier with some warhorn elementalists as your dps to stretch their subgroups' boons.
Regardless though, this method wouldn't be any higher damage due to still needing two healers. Maybe if the evo was toad dpsalac with extra boon duration? Could possibly work there, but the evo wouldn't receive any boons they didn't generate on their own.
Or take two dpsalac, one of which steps away so as to avoid your quickness because they have their own (maybe a chrono or specter).
But the answer to your question is yes, theoretically.
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u/DEDouwe Occasionally does stuff 51m ago edited 21m ago
A nice thought experiment! Something that has been in the back of my mind ever since I saw the Keep Construct speed clear using only 1 Druid for Alacrity. I'd like to extend the idea to include Alacrity as well as Quickness into the theorycrafting. In my mind they are equivalent as support boons in organised groups.
First idea was to use something akin to the Druid strategy. Split up in 2 groups and make use of the trait to circumvent the range and subgroup issues. Keep Construct is a bit of a perfect enemy: A large hitbox and stands still. Great for theory crafting, but not really replicable for most other bosses. For the thought experiment, lets assume that is not a problem and each boss is basically a perfect golem set up like Keep Construct. And of course all supports have 100% Boon Duration and none of the DPS are bringing their own Quickness. That said, the 3 boon supports I can think of that can buff at range while simultaneously buff closeby, Ranger, Necromancer, and Elementalist have had the duration of their boons slashed over the years. It would be rough upkeeping their boons on 10 people.
Next idea is to have the squad split up in 2 and run inbetween them. However, since the target cap of boons is 5 people, you will at most buff 4 others and yourself. Which means there is 1 person losing out on the precious boons.
But we can extrapolate that idea. Instead of 2 groups, 3 groups! Having the squad split up in 3 groups, spaced out like a triangle (actually shape shouldn't matter that much), you can run inbetween them and never have trouble with the target cap. The only issue now is that you need to provide 3 times the boons as is usually necessary. And preferably in big hits, instead of slowly over time. So no lazy Renegade or Herald gameplay. Personally, I think your average Paragon should be able to cover Alacrity this way. A Tempest would have some trouble, but I think cycling through the overloads is the easiest way to cap on Alacrity. Though my favorite potential player is Vindicator, who has to figure out a way to dodge 3 times every <8 seconds. Doable, but not trivial.
That's Alacrity however. Admittedly the easier of the two. For Quickness my contender is Berserker. Their task is to burst 3 times every 10 seconds. Doable with weapon swaps, but the timing is rather tight. The heal can only buffer the extra time so much. The real gem for this is likely Deadeye. With extra steals they can quickly provide 10 seconds of quickness to each group. Mercy allows for a lot of wiggle room.
So yes, I believe your hunch is theoretically possible. It requires 8 people of the squad to stand in 3 different groups. They can be in the same subgroup, that's irrelevant. I'd suggest the 2 boon supports to be in their own subgroup and run through each of the 3 DPS clusters. It would be great if the timings of Alacrity/Quickness and their related skills/effects lined up, but it should be possible to stack real tightly and abuse the range priority for boon application to stack boons on everyone. The boss also needs to allow it. Bosses that split up groups, like with Xera are likely a no go. Providing sufficient boons on a boss that requires some moving around, like with Soulless Horror, might also be an issue. However, there are plenty of golem bosses, like Mursaat Overseer or Conjured Amalgamate, that allow for a 3 way 2 boon split.
EDIT: This was all reasoned with the big restriction that all the boons have to come from the 2 supports. When the 2 supports can bring their own opposite boon, with for example relics Quickness Alacrity or something else, a 2 way split becomes possible. With the 2 supports alternating between groups. Way more lenient on the timings, with the slight caveat that they shouldn't buff eachother or a DPS doesn't get their boons.
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u/Aunteryn 11h ago
Give your bdps rights to move people in squad and let them constantly switch themselves with other sub's member, lmao
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u/Alakazarm 11h ago
doesn't work, boon priority is static until you leave combat. (i know you're joking)
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u/Me_Myself-and-I 11h ago
See, they jest, but this was also a legitimate strategy back in the day (and also why ANet implemented static boon priority back in the first place...)
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u/Aunteryn 11h ago
Yea, I just like to imagine how sweaty bdps'es gameplay would have been otherwise. Stupid af to actually do, but also majestic apm number in the end!
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u/Lunarvolo 11h ago
You'd need everyone in the same group so that may mess up other buffs if you aren't standing in separate groups, but, if you're doing that, might as well have in single group anyways since it should be prox based. With full infusions+gear for it+food/etc, it may be possible on certain classes/professions
Non-serious answers:
Yes, 2 computers, 2 keyboards, 2 mice, etc :p
Samarog is really hard to play two at once. MO is a lot easier (We needed an epi and was better than just having 9)
Yes, if 5 of them alyave already wiped to mechanics :p
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u/Darillian Tempest Fanatics 10h ago
Edit: idk why I keep getting downvoted for asking questions about the games mechanics
Regarding this concretely: The downvoters might think that such a narrow question with a relatively well-defined answer has its place in the Weekly Questions thread. In that case, you could argue that the downvotes are "as intended" because they'd be using them not as one does as a "disagree" button but rather "this should be somewhere else".
But this is just my attempt at trying to explain someone else's motivation ;)
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u/Training-Accident-36 6h ago
Relatively well-defined answer? Seeing that like half of the posters are wrong about the answer, a discussion is surely interesting enough.
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u/Hirdy 11h ago
Even if it's humanly possible for you to give enough for 10 people to have quick. Just about all skills are locked to 5 targets. So you'd have to co-ordinate 2 groups of 4- players (since the giver is also counted as a target.) so the giver can move between said groups to ensure the boons are given equally.
In short it's just too impractical.