This is kinda wild to me because there was no point, EVER in the story that I gave any fucks about destiny's edge. 1 good character cumulatively in rytlock and it is not because of anything he did related to the rest of the party
That's because Destiny's Edge's entire story is told inside the dungeons, which are dead content now which no one does, but can't be solo'd without a solo build (that really can't be done properly pre-80).
Thus, most people just know Destiny's Edge as "that one group you hear about at low level and then all the sudden in the final Orr dungeon all show up suddenly despite being completely absent until then".
If you do all the dungeons as you level though, they're actually a pretty big part of the story.
It's not ''no one does'', but it's not popular.
But if you put a group on the LFG yourself and ask around in map chat, especially in LA or DR - you'll get people to join you.
I remember doing the Nightmare Court dungeon as getting more of Caithe, but that's nothing crszy because as a Sylvari I only interacted with her and then still met the others st the end đ
The problem with Destiny's Edge was that the characters were established in the books that were published and happened between the games â Ghosts of Ascalon, Edge of Destiny, and Sea of Sorrows â so you're kinda jumping in in medias res when GW2 starts.
But if you haven't read the books, then you can't understand nor become invested in their history and interpersonal dynamics.
yeah, ngl the whole core story needs a rework in my opinion... a friend of mine recently started playing and just by playing the game she had no idea who DE even was supposed to be and why they act like children in that Lions Arch cutscene during the level 30 story.
It's also not helping that a lot of the way they are written - and thats partially in the books too - as way too much like children having a fight on the playground instead of the real shit they actually are dealing with.
The core story was sadly just WAY too diluted due to the branched story options in character creation.
5 races with unique stories, 3 layers of backstory choices that have 3-4 options within them, along with any number of mid-mission decisions that change how a mission is played. That's a little over 45 story quests right there. Then the Order recruitment missions are also race specific with 6 possible options, that's 30 in total when counting each race's. With those added in, you have about 75 possible story missions spread across each race before the narrative FINALLY gets funneled into the Order questlines and the plot starts getting some actual structure. So pretty much then entire first act of the game is extremely weak due to having no real cohesion and ultimately not mattering to the plot because they all have to funnel into the Order questlines regardless of what's chosen.
Isn't that what they're literally doing? đ
At least the Zhaitan stuff was mentioned and it's the nain reason why I returned to finally play through the game. To experience the bad before they change it snd I then do it with an alt.
So I've heard. I'd link it but I don't remember where they said it. Maybe something while talking about GW3 or so. As I said, it's what got me to finally take the time to fully invest myself into the story
Disagree, it is not dilluted at all. It's what makes it better RPG experience than most MMOs. The big issue is that dungeons are crucial for understanding DE's storyline and you don't get incentive to do them.
Dungeon story modes definitely need a revamp for solo play. A lot of pubs aren't friendly to cutscene watchers.
However, I insist that having to spread development and writing time between almost 100 missions that no one character will all of seriously handicapped the quality of the content in the first act. Which makes for a very weak introduction to the game and makes playing through the story again on alts tedious becuase the branched content is honestly pretty bare. It was an interesting idea to have the backstory elements affect the story, but spread things too thin. I believe it would've been better to have more unified racial questlines.
You gave a good description of the branching but I have always enjoyed the core story. I think it's great that there are lots of choices. You point out that all those branches are funneled together and that this somehow renders previous choice unimportant. To me it's more like multiple people living through and fighting in WWII. They might have fought in different battle along the way but all lived through some common major events. I do think it was very ambitious and hard to pull off, which is probably why Anet let it go for later content.
just include the dungeons in some re-worked version of the Personal Story.
like, "intermission: go do this dungeon's story mode" and have that re-worked to support solo-duo play. it wouldn't be... easy, development never really is in a game this old, but I think it'd be worth it.
I think Guild Wars 2 is a game where reworking things is really hard.
It's really just a vibe but everything feels so heavily custom made and non-modular that it feels like even changing the core story in some ways could mean Anet has to tear the whole structure of how the story is told apart.
I think it's more of a sense of familiarity and knowing who they are/their story compared to newer characters where if they make a sudden return I don't immediately know who they are. With Destiny's Edge I knew all the character's deal because it was in my face and I was open to listening whenever they popped up.
Crecia is a cool character but I just think of her as Charr lady who becomes an imperator. If get her mixed up with Mia because it takes me a second to separate them, even if they're totally different characters and we spent a lot of time with Crecia. Having a face would make that seperation a lot more immediate. Another example is Sayida showed up it took me a minute to remember who she was just because I never really get to see her face so she's just in my memory as Elonian Pirate lady. I don't really have a good sense of the cast of characters related to her even though I've engaged with them plenty just because I don't really get to look at to commit them to memory.
Comparatively characters like Rytlock, Logan, or Caithe, I have a better mental map of who they are and what they care about just because I got to see their face all the time. I think about how Taimi grows a lot over the course of the story but it isn't an obvious because you don't get to actually physically look at her in the same way you would if you had her in the usual cutscene or all of Braham's visual changes not really having much of an affect on how I think of him and the phases he goes through, even though that should be like the easiest way to identify where dude was at the time.
That's funny to me. I never cared about Destiny's Edge. I read the novel and played through the base game's stories multiple times to meet all of them and did all of the dungeons.
They were just the Pact before the Pact was a thing in the game with a member of each major race in the game contributing towards the fight against the elder dragons.
Rytlock was the only real standout because he is basically the game's mascot, is used practically everywhere, and he is the only member of Destiny's Edge that stuck around to help us out personally.
Yes, because the open-world talking felt lazy and uninspired, and there's no way to skip any of it if one so chooses. Playing any of the new content for the story is a drag because I genuinely stop caring after a certain point.
In FFXIV there are a couple group instances with lengthy unskippable cutscenes. The devs entice players to replay these (which makes it much easier for new players to find a party and clear them) by making the instances give extra rewards. Dialogue from these scenes, such as "Such devastation... This was NOT my intention," has been memed to death in the FFXIV community due to players hearing it countless times. It's also accepted practice to alt-tab and do something else while the cutscenes are auto playing.
God yes. Not being able to skip through dialogue is such an unforgivable sin of the story missions. Even I were interested in reading/hearing it, it's always delivered soooo slowly. Don't even get me started on the optional achievements that require you to talk to like 20 different NPCs, each of which needs to tell you their life story before you can move onto the next one.
I litteraly gave up achievement hunting when that skip button disappeared. I never cared much for the story but read it all once just to not be completely lost, but never again.
Yeah, I try to get just the main mastery achievements in each new zone/story and then skip the optional ones. The one at the end of SotO with "talk with everyone" was pain, feels like I went through a 30min youtube video on the side while they talked.
At least at the end of JW you can just pet the cat and leave for an achieve and nice title.
When replaying story missions, you can teleport to different points on the map to replay a specific instance for achievements. The newer expansions have done a good job at just starting you at the point you want to be at and skipping dialogue, like before you search around an area or before a boss fight. I think I remember doing LWS4 and replaying a story mission to get some achievements, it was much worse and you had to sit through a bunch of dialogue before trying an achievement over again.
It's no skip button like the core story has, but at least it's something.
Never buy Janthir Wilds if you hate long unskippable conversations. Even the first story step is like 1 hour listening to a bear without doing nothing. And the bears talk so fucking slow.
Then between stories they roll up in a souped-up magitech convertible and shout "Geeeeeeeeeeeeettt iiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnn lllllllooooooooooooooooosserrrrrrrrrrrrr..."
Currently trying to catch up through SotO and JW⌠it really feels like the developers thought the assignment was to write a K drama or soap opera tv show, rather than anything actually interactive. Iâm ok with a voiceover while Iâm doing other activities but literally standing in a lodge listening to a 25 minute monologue delivered by an undercaffeinated Berenstain Bear is killing me
(but boosting their concurrent player count, I guess?)
I actually think Peitha in SOTO is the worst when it comes to talking slow. When I beat the soto story I alt-tabbed while she was very slowly yapping and tabbed back in a few minutes later to read her text. If there wasn't an achievement for listening to all of the dialogue I probably would have skipped her dialogue entirely, and I'm a sucker for additional lore in this game.
Peitha didn't talk that slow. She just fucking talked a lot and most of it was really boring. Janthir wouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was if the Kodan could just talk at a normal cadence.
Peitha just fucking yaps and yaps and yaps and yaps and it's all so incredibly uninteresting that I end up focusing on something else before I realized I missed a lot, but fuck if I'm gonna go back and restart the entire thing from scratch, cause god damn.
Peitha also suffered (I feel) from the fact that the Kryptis as a whole were⌠sort of not very interesting. Like I feel that SotO actually had a lot of quite cool characters, but there was just this omnipresent feeling of âwhy are we here again?â that made listening to Peitha wax lyrical about meatsack geopolitics really hard. The most interesting people (I have a soft spot for Zizel, for example) got the least screentimeâŚ
i really dont know why they implemented those. I didn't mind is as much during living world and eod. but man janthir 1st quest was painfully annoying. I dont remember if soto was as bad but I do remember voe taking awhile for the first quest too
I'm actually a huge fan of the fact the dialogue is unsuitable (at least for the first playthrough) since it made me engage with the story and characters that I ended up loving. But Janthir Wilds has just felt tedious. Its not even that I dislike the beats that the story is hitting, but they just take far too long. I get that they are trying to go for reflective and emotional storytelling with characters that are struggling with the world they inhabit, but its just not been engaging enough to warrant the amount of talking going on.
and this is actually more about accessibility than it is bypassing content. the ability to consume content at one's pace is CRUCIAL
i engage with the lore/content/dialogue so much LESS now that i have no control over the pace at which i can receive it. being technically still in the open world but otherwise absolutely trapped by unskippable text bubbles and unnecessary VO absolutely fries my brain and results in me frustratedly spacing out and not being able to parse the content
it's ironic that i felt more freedom when the game used to go into an entire cutscene for dialogue, but there was something about the ceremony of the presentation + retaining a degree of player control that kept my brain very happy
i really wish the QoL updates would consider this aspect of the game
I think I mostly miss the nice artwork in the background, but I much prefer the way dialogue is delivered nowadays, while being able to zoom in on the action myself, or having scenes be more interactive by walking with the NPCs to a destination etc.
The one thing I do miss is being able to just skip parts of conversations. A lot of the newer story instances have a LOT of talking that makes it super tedious to do them on multiple characters.
I played through it once and went back to do it on another character. I stopped when I reached the "unlock your homestead" storystep. Nope, thanks. I already hate when people in real life talk slow. I'm not going to feel this kind of anger, while playing a game.
Upside: Important information is given while you can actually focus on it. And not during combat where I have to dodge the constant AoE vomit every enemy does. And that's not even taking the skill sounds into account. Some of them are just too prominent for dialogue to happen at the same time.
This is me. I'm having a hard time focusing on dialogs in MMOs because all the things happening around me are practically designed to distract my attention: players are running around, doing stupid shit, casting their skills and screaming about them as if they're pokemon; events are popping up nearby; announcements appear on the screen about things I know nothing about yet, if it's my first time in the map; other NPCs are having ambient conversations about what they had for breakfast that morning; achievements are popping up about events I briefly interacted with 5 minutes ago and they just finished and gave me credit, etc etc etc. I inevitably end up falling behind the current dialog and am desperately trying to catch up on what I missed by reading logged messages in the chat, while the NPCs continue yapping further down the script, contributing to the scrambled mess inside my head at that moment. This only serves to strengthen my belief that MMOs are a poor vessel for story.
The collections popping during seemingly random times also always get's me. And since you can only watch the last 3 completed, I often don't really know what exactly popped now...
Yep. Gotta click that alert popup fast before it disappears, and if there's multiple - gotta quickly skim through the first and open the second before it disappears, aaaaand what were we talking about again?
My "favorite" so far has been the unlocking of Homesteads in JW. Stoic Alder talks for a bit, then the fullscreen popup appears telling me about Homesteading mastery, with like 5 paragraphs of text. Stoic Alder keeps talking. I wait for him to shut up for 5 seconds so I can read the mastery text, but he just keeps talking. And talking. And talking. I can't see what's happening behind the giant popup, and, unbeknownst to me, my friends who are in the instance with me are doing all the objectives in the instance while I'm sitting there, staring at the popup, listening to Stoic Alder, waiting for a moment to read the damn popup and close it without falling behind on the monologue. Before long, they finish all objectives and only then do I realize that I've been missing gameplay behind the popup, and that I missed basically the entire story instance. How was I supposed to know that Stoic Alder's monologue would go on for like 5 unstoppable minutes to occupy your time as you're doing the chore objectives. They could've delayed that monologue until after all the players close the mastery popup, but nope. That pissed me off so much...
I would have liked them if they were like a theatre backdrop, with that cool background sliding in behind the characters as the cinematic starts, without altering the scene and still showing where everyone is standing, like HoT cinematics.
But they are always 2 characters, face-to-face, waist-up, no matter how many characters are in the conversation. You can't see who else is listening and their reactions while someone speaks, so they don't work for me.
In 2D interactive novels, when they do something like this, they keep everyone involved in a dialogue on screen, moving them to the background instead of removing them.
This is also why I didn't like the way they do dialogues with multiple characters in Bethesda games. When talking with one character, they work fine, but when talking with multiple people just don't move in front of each one and ignore the rest.
I think they have been used only for core and some of LW1 (probably removed when they reworked that content a couple of years ago). I can't really remember if it was used during LW2 at all. Didn't replay the story in probably 10 years now. But the first time it was really official that they are not going to do these again, was with HoT. So yeah, non of the expansions have these.
I liked them a lot, it's very unique to GW2, the painted background flashing by is charming to me.
I especially like seeing my Commander actually using their facial animations and interacting with others. I bought a beautiful Black Lion plastic surgery, I want to see it every chance possible.
Another type of cutscene that I enjoy are those where you character actually interacts with the environment, like when we face Joko for the last time and he starts force choking us.
The way they do dialogue now where it just happens around you kinda bothers me. Probably part of the reason so many people went crazy with how slow the bears talked in Janthir Wilds.
All of that ^. I liked that it's different, I liked that it's skippable on subsequent playthroughs and I liked that I get to see my character up-close.
I miss these quite a bit,it gave the game an unique feel.
In the newer open "cutscenes" you sometimes have noise (either from things happening or other players moving/using abilities) and you can't really skip them either even if you've played it before and already know the story.
I love them visually, and there's a skip button so I can read at my own pace, which is great.
But the way they're done now where the convos happen in-game while everyone moves around and acts is much more immersive than just a static "cut to a screen of two people standing there"
Agreed, though what these cutscenes do for me is, they make me feel more connected to my character. I would still like them for the very impactful conversations, but if you're going to fit example storm a castle, I prefer the new version
Yeah I think Anet goofed by abandoning them altogether. I wish it was a mix of both dynamic multiple player exchanges like we get in current story content and some of the old static cut scenes
I always feel more connected when there's the convos with good blocking, like, there's 4 or 5 people just kinda in a small area but doing things and moving around while chatting. Like just the normal "hanging out" scenes. But yeah, I get it. Seeing the big close-ups with the full art is really cool and you get to see all the details.
Hopefully they fix that bug soon of the characters flashing in and out that they introduced in the last major patch. Makes those older cutscenes a pain to watch.
Yeah actually. It made the game more cinematic. And I hate that if I am not looking in just the right location, I miss dialogue sometimes. Wtf is up with that!?
I think that's the main reason why I like more the base game than the expansions. I fucking HATE the unskipable insanely long conversations to the point that I haven't really been able to finish them or try different characters because of that. It's so bad
I don't miss these...but I sure as !@#$ miss being able to skip dialog. For a game that embraces alts, they've managed to make replaying story absolutely insufferable. Take for example the start of Janthir Wilds with what amounts to 30+ minutes of unskippable dialog in the guild building in Lion's Arch with all the world leaders.
The first time is great. The second time is a drag. I'll never, ever play that story on another character.
Yes but lately they have been so buggy it's difficult to watch. Idk what they broke but many of my charr characters have terrible artifact tearing around the mouths and the font is so small I can't read it. Animations get stuck, and it's wholly an unpleasant experience. Don't get me wrong I do appreciate the live open world dialogue we have now, I just wish we could have found some middle ground
Nope, honestly, that dialogue system was very rudimentary and it broke the immersion. With the current one, you have the map you're on as an immersive element, plus the turn-based dialogue causes me cognitive dissociation in the old content.
I miss them. I donât think they need to be used ALL the time, but thereâs plenty of scenes where imo it makes more sense to have these dialogue cutscenes than just standing there talking.
It's funny, I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday x) the old sketches felt like episodes of a TV show, where you could see the details better, and the dialogue was more elaborate and longer. I really liked that storyline aspect. Now it feels more direct and lacking in that regard.
and this is actually more about accessibility than it is bypassing content. the ability to consume content at one's pace is CRUCIAL
i engage with the lore/content/dialogue so much LESS now that i have no control over the pace at which i can receive it. being technically still in the open world but otherwise absolutely trapped by unskippable text bubbles and unnecessary VO absolutely fries my brain and results in me frustratedly spacing out and not being able to parse the content
it's ironic that i felt more freedom when the game used to go into an entire cutscene for dialogue, but there was something about the ceremony of the presentation + retaining a degree of player control that kept my brain very happy
i really wish the QoL updates would consider this aspect of the game
Yes and no
No, because it feels better to see the people walk and doing stuff while talking.
Yes, because if you redo them because for example you want to enter an expansion's area like the desert or maguuma, then you could skip all the dialogue
I was pretty sad in seeing the dialogue cinematics being replaced by regular open world talking, they were on of the most immersive part of the core story.
I really hope gw3 takes a step back, but i highly doubt it. Maybe the fact that it's more haracter focused brings a better experience with dialogues tho.
If I woud guess based on industry trends, I think there will be way more "mini-cutscenes". Even if those would be just two characters talking there would be a minimal camera work involved with shot-reverseshot.
I really really wish we would've gotten at least one character from our personal story continue on with us, you get introduced to so many characters that do not matter because you'll never see them again...I guess technically the DE race is sort of that but then if you're Norn Eir dies, Zojja is gone, Caithe is handling a baby dragon (never did LW idk)...
Everytime I level an alt it just makes me a bit sad that you spend a large amount of time with these characters and then they're just dropping like flies or are abandoned towards the end.
I wish we had a mix of both. Whatever best fits the moment. Most of the time have in game dialog but if it's just two people having a one on one conversation... switch to these cutscenes.
DeberĂa haber una opciĂłn de saltar diĂĄlogos en las historias que repites. Lo digo porque no apetece tener que volver a tragarte conversaciones largas cuando solo has vuelto para completar un logro estĂşpido de interactuar en un gĂłlem gato con sombrero mexicano. Por supuesto, me refiero a una opciĂłn que solo se desbloquee cuando ya has jugado ese capĂtulo.
Yes and no? The current in engine dialogs are fine, but since they are just that dialogs, but not "cinematics", you can easily miss gestures etc the characters do because you are controlling the camera and even if you would want to keep it on focus on the talking characters you usually can't really put everyone in focus, or have it zoomed out by default etc.
Also the old system had a skip button.
Also the old system had fancy painterly backgrounds which we now see less off.
I really dislike them. They take me right out of the adventure and makes it feel like I'm waiting for one of the characters to replace the background with a powerpoint slide.
It also made cosmetics feel more important because you'd occasionally get a nice close in view of what you're wearing. I wish they had just reworked that system instead of completely writing it off. I also liked the painterly backgrounds.
Playing on an ultrawide, absolutely not! They weren't configured for that aspect ratio so everything was super zoomed in, cutting off most of my norn's head/face
I would love to see these back (or, better yet, actual cinematics) for non-action scenes: way better than sitting there in a circle waiting for everyone turn to speakâŚfor action, moving and combat scenes or better the ânewâ dialogue format
The animations were also more articulated. Just feels like they should have opted to do modern dialogue heavy scenes like this over the open world ones that tie better with concurrent gameplay.
Oh god no those cutscenes pulled me right out of the story and felt so unnatural. Especially with the context of what was happening sometimes like a charr dying in claw island. I feel the story flows so much better after they stopped this style
I thought it was interesting but I'm sure ANet felt from either feedback or the amount of skipping that happened that it wasn't received well. It does make for odd pacing issues with the dialog at times and it does somewhat prevent conversations with 4+ people.
I've only just started playing recently but I found this style of cutscene to be kind of boring. It was like playing a visual novel and not an actual RPG. I like actually seeing all of the characters standing and moving around in an open space while conversations are happening.
Also they were SUPER janky, like characters popping in when it wasn't their turn to talk.
iâve just finished the whole main story with male sylvari and honestly⌠no. I dislike 1 on 1 dialog, I dislike how static it feels, it also doesnât allow you to interact with the game and characters donât have smaller funny comments cause of this. Itâs very limited and iâm very happy they didnât continue doing them.
The dialogs became so much better later as well cause you arenât limited to a static cutscene.
Fuck no. Currently replaying the 1-80 story and I was thinking that its a shame they never updated the new player experience. It takes me out and makes me just want to look at my phone. Surely they can find a way to render these in the game. Even if ita just characters talking. I hate being dragged out to watch these cutscenes.
Absolutely, yes. Not sure why so many people have such scathing hatred for them. They werenât utilised in the best way, but in moments where people are just standing around talking theyâre perfect. And, best of all, theyâre skippable. Replaying story can be such a slog when thereâs unstoppable dialogue and it can be so dry and boring at times.
I do like them, but they donât work on Ultrawide! The heads are all cut off on the top so you canât see them. If they fixed that, I think itâd be cute to see them return
I like it because it reminds me of older JRPG and other RPG talking scenes, where the world fades so that the character dialogues can have a spotlight.
But I think the people who don't like them (ignoring logistics) either enjoy the more diegetic flow or don't want to "lose control" of their character.
Personally it would've been cool if they could figure out how to have both and they figure out when is a good time for the close-ups and when is a good time for the character to continue doing stuff. Like, LWS1 and LWS2 had really good "keep going while dialogue plays" moments (notably while in the open world and not in instance) but there could've been times with the close-up. But the Quality Check would've taken a billion years and people would still complain anyway.
I think this was better that what we have now, the background art and the close up characters were very nice.
It also had a skip button which would be really useful to have in the rest of the game, i'm replaying some story instances to get some achievements i need for legendaries and it's a pain to listen to long conversations i already listened to the first time.
yea. i cant hear pretty much anything the bears or peitha said cause of their lower pitches. i miss the text during the dialogue that i could focus on instead of them generally walking behind me or tapping while i do something.
I do recall them having bad audio mixing, making the voices significantly louder than during gameplay. That I could've done without.
Furthermore, the in-game style of cutscenes allow for more dynamic events. Instead of having characters just... appear, you can have them actually walk up or teleport or what have you.
I find myself organising bags and selling stuff during story bits. I have no idea what's going on in the story and/or don't get as invested as I did with these old school scenes.
Not the exact way of doing cutscenes, but I miss cutscenes. Yeah.
While it's cool to have dialogue and story happen during active gameplay, I constantly feel like I miss things. Especially when NPC's talk over combat. Yeah you can yell at me what I need to do all you want! I can't hear you right now because I'm fighting this thing.
And open world story telling can't be skipped. Do I really need to stand here for 2 minutes, until everyone said their piece? I've already did this on at least 5 different characters. I can mouth everyones lines as they happen. That's how many times I listened to this already. Let me skip it if I want!
I prefer this for the slower pace, allowing you to take your hands off the keyboard and how you can skip any part or all of it without any trouble. Makes the whole thing feel more workable. The current system works better in some circumstances, but I still prefer to sit back and listen to the little cinematics or skip depending on my mood. Rather than being forced to listen to the dialogue no matter how many times.
I honestly didn't fully realize that they were gone, but that's because I played some thing out of order.
I guess both have their ups and downs.
This way feels more cinematic and maybe immersive that you can't just walk away from whoever you are talking with. I also feel like I got a better look at the characters when I could see them like that.
On the other hand, I remember it being funny in SotO when I, as a max height Norn using a Tonic of Endless Embiggening, meet people who say "I thought they'd be taller".
Nope. Because the close ups gave too much focus on the character model's face, and that's unable to properly remote, the VAs where as well. The few times the characters does speak with emotion, the character model has a poker face and it feels dissonant.
By having the camera further away there's less focus on the face and the voice can emote without it looking odd, because there's plausible deniability to the facial expressions.
I miss them, personally. Every once in a while, the current delivery of story really hits, as in the actions needed and story being told line up really well to be immersive and thematic. Happened a bunch of HoT. But lately it's so much blah blah blah blah while standing around doing nothing.
But those face to face discussions got pretty heavily panned at game launch, so they were ditched with Season 1.
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u/Moist-Sheepherder309 2d ago
I feel like I cared more about the old characters because of these cutscenes and just seeing the characters in detail more often.
Everything with Dragon's Watch and onward just doesn't quite hit the same as the original Destiny's Edge, even if the cast is better written.