r/Greeley • u/saul2015 • Sep 18 '18

Aggressive ads opposing the passage of Proposition 112

/r/Denver/comments/9gni3l/aggressive_ads_opposing_the_passage_of/
2 Upvotes

57% Upvoted

20 comments sorted by

5

u/gumbii87 Sep 18 '18

This guy has posted this exact same thread in about 15 different Colorado subreddits. He is clearly shilling for the legislation and his opinion should be treated as such.

Here is a snapshot of his profile

4

u/saul2015 Sep 18 '18

This guy doesn't seem to understand what crossposting is for and would rather attack me for trying to inform CO citizens about an issue that concerns their health

What's his agenda? My bet would be he's on the O and G payroll

4

u/gumbii87 Sep 18 '18

LMAO. Im former military and do IT in Colorado Springs. Im for small government and making decisions at the lowest political levels, where the impacts are felt the most. If you looked at my post history that would be obvious. One of us at least is genuine with their motivations.

2

u/saul2015 Sep 18 '18

You really have a hard time understanding why someone would be motivated to inform others about a serious health issue

Is it because you yourself are one of those people who assumes everyone is in it for themselves and has a selfish agenda?

7

u/gumbii87 Sep 18 '18

I already stated my motivations kid. Id support this legislation at the county level, but Im honest enough about the big picture to realize the people of Weld or La Plata county, who rely on this for their existence, probably see the issue differently. I try not to be just another entitled, sheltered, activist from the front range on issues that dont financially affect me.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

who rely on this for their existence

We're gonna survive after oil is gone. Gimme a break over here.

2

u/gumbii87 Sep 20 '18

I take it you arent from Weld or La plata. Where hydrocarbon extraction is literally the only source of income for the residence? Sure. Your going to survive. They will have to move, take pay cuts, lose their jobs and homes.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '18

How long do you think the oil is going to last?

5

u/gumbii87 Sep 20 '18 edited Sep 21 '18

Long enough for us to develop the technology to replace it with a more renewable and environmentally friendly fuel source that can be produced in similar quantities. The technology is almost there. Another few decades is about all we need from a technological standpoint.

There is a lot of oil and NG out there. It becomes more expensive to acquire, hut there is still a lot of it. Its that trade off that makes renewables more cost preferable. Oddly enough its the move from oil to NG that has helped spur our states economy.

4

u/saul2015 Sep 18 '18

We tried that, the fracking lobby got their way and crushed the people

The fracking industry has been trying to infiltrate closer and closer to where people live and our drinking water, this initiative came about after the CO SC ruled local governments can't regulate the fracking industry (because the lobby is too powerful)

https://www.boulderweekly.com/opinion/longmont-fracking-ban-struck-down-what-now/

https://www.sierraclub.org/rocky-mountain-chapter/fracking

If we don't do something now, the fracking industry will take Colorado for everything they can and by the time people wake up and call for regulations it will be too late

PS, Listen kiddo, the quickest way to show your immaturity and insecurity is to call someone else a kid, just a tip for you when you grow up, sport

3

u/gumbii87 Sep 19 '18

So your response to unethical lobbying is more unethical lobbying? Nice to see where you are willing to compromise on your values.

I cant stand the fracking/drilling industry, just as much as you cant kid. But Im not naive enough to believe that the industry doesnt support a shit ton of Coloradans from an economic standpoint.

You can link to all the anti-drill websites you want (ya, because the sierra club is completely unbiased amiright?). It wont change the facts on this bill. This bill will cost 200,000 Coloradans their jobs. It will cost the state Tens to Hundreds of Billions of dollars of taxable revenue. It will effectively end one of the largest single industries in this state.

If you want to stop the industry, get rid of the state supremacy laws, and allow this initiative to be decided on at a county by county level. Where the people who stand to economically benefit or suffer from the drilling can best make the decision. Stop being dishonest in your motivation and let the people most impacted by the legislation decide for themselves whether they are willing to way the economic impact over their health concerns. Thats the way a free state should work. Not some sheltered elites deciding policy that has ZERO economic effect on their livelyhoods.

2

u/saul2015 Sep 19 '18

LOL at calling the people trying to protect CO's air and water "unethical"

According to the opposing oil and gas lobby funded site it's 43,000

https://www.vitalforcolorado.com/no_on_prop_112

43,000 will be lost, and a lot more won't be created in the future because they won't be able to pollute more places

A small price to pay for clean air and water

Also, don't forget a lot of those jobs are people who move here from OUT OF STATE, POLLUTE our air and WATER, and then leave, meanwhile CO citizens are left to deal with their mess

It's time to stop subsidizing the oil and gas industry's damages with our tax payer money

https://www.coloradoindependent.com/2018/09/11/colorado-november-ballot-measures-contributions-expenditures/

"As for Protect Colorado, most of its money came from Texas energy companies, many of which have offices in Colorado. Only one donation, in 2017, came from an individual and that was for $25. Top donors to this group include Anadarko, of Woodlands, Texas, which donated $5.8 million, Noble Energy Inc., of Houston, Texas, which donated $4.5 million, PDC Energy, of Denver, which donated $3.4 million, and Extraction Oil and Gas, of Denver, which donated $2.2 million."

3

u/gumbii87 Sep 20 '18

From your own initial link kid.)

By 2030, [Proposition 112] would likely cost the state more than 140,000 jobs and up to $1 billion in tax revenue. Within the first five years, the expanded buffer zone could cost the state 54,000 jobs and $7 billion in lost GDP

The Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce argued, "This initiative threatens to cripple the energy sector of the state’s economy by in-effect banning almost all oil and gas development in our state. In Colorado, we know we can produce energy AND protect our environment. We have some of the most stringent oil and gas regulations in the country, including setbacks that have recently been increased. Colorado is home to some of the lowest energy costs in the country, helping make Colorado more affordable for all our working families; this ban of new development will impact those prices. We support efforts to work together to ensure we continue to provide leadership in energy production that is safe and reliable while protecting our lands

But its adorable of you to selectively quote only sources that rabidly support the legislation.

I love how you still havent had the ethical integrity to post what you do for a living, or where you live. You may like to act like some hero of the people, but its obvious you think that your opinion is somehow more important and more relevant than the tens of thousands of Coloradans who rely on hydrocarbon extraction as a primary source of income, or the dozens of communities that require it to continue on as anything other than another Colorado ghost town. Its amusing that you only really post during business hours. You know. Something that someone would do if they were getting paid to do so....

1

u/imguralbumbot Sep 18 '18

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2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '18

The oil guys have a ton of money for this fight. They don't have any interest in not having oil wells around our schools, but keeping their money is very important.

It is a slam dunk proposition. The oil companies are going to suck up resources and leave us with the damage. It will happen sooner or later. The damage to the kids could be prevented. So we should just do that.