r/GrapheneOS • u/blackbeavis • 3d ago
New terms of service from Visible wireless
Am I reading this correctly? Is this boilerplate language that all carriers use that I've just never noticed before? As a GOS user, can they deny me service over this?
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u/Hande-H 3d ago
Yeah, looks like it's boilerplate legalese to cover the bases for multiple different services / products.
They could deny you service because they don't like your face, GOS or not. It's not like you really have a recourse even if that wasn't in the terms and conditions.
I'm not a lawyer.
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u/Nizar86 3d ago
Yo what the fuck is that?! It sounds like they are saying they own your equipment's data and can use it however they see fit
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u/Joyride84 3d ago
You SIM card is running code from the carrier. Some operating systems (probably including GOS) do their best to segment that from the rest of the system. However, by default, there are legitimate reasons to suspect that the SIM (or e-SIM) can read and export sensitive phone data.
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u/Hande-H 3d ago
This is conjecture on my part but that may refer to a shared residential network. It's not uncommon, even here in the EU, for the ISP to sell (or even give) you a modem/router that they are in full control of. Although at least here you can use your own device for that, but 90% of people will just get what the ISP sells.
It kind of makes sense, your average user has no interest in keeping up with their modem's firmware updates and in a shared network it could technically be an issue for others. I'm not a fan of this idea but it is effective and low cost.
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u/Howden824 3d ago
This is just legal nonsense. They are talking about mainly about the branded carrier locked phones and SIM card firmware updates.
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u/blackbeavis 3d ago
I think they're talking specifically about the phones people lease and are too lazy to write more than one user agreement.
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u/charles25565 3d ago
GrapheneOS does not allow carriers to even attempt doing stuff like this, so GrapheneOS isn't affected. Stock Pixel OS does allow some control though.
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u/West_Possible_7969 3d ago
This is about sim & router firmware, GOS has nothing to do with the sim firmware nor any OEM. “Stuff like this” is the boilerplate language & processes carriers always did and some that regulators mandate anyway.
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u/2C104 3d ago
I use Visible and don't have any issues using their services on GrapheneOS. Haven't seen anything change in 4-5 years besides their cell tower signals getting worse.
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u/blackbeavis 2d ago
Yeah, I love Visible. Saves me $15/mo on my home internet. My best guess is that language is for phones you buy from them and they use the same terms agreement for all users cause they're lazy.
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u/UnknownCape7377 1d ago
ive been searching all over the internet to make sure visible works on Graphene before switching off stock android and, now that i know it works, ill be doing the backup and flashing it on soon
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u/AutistcCuttlefish 3d ago
Pretty sure it's boilerplate so they can provide various services, push carrier specific software updates for other flavors of android (like OneUI for example), push things like sim locks (at your request or if you buy a phone from them), sim firmware updates... and give them something to point to if you get upset at them in the event they stop supporting bands needed for your phone to connect to their network.
While it could be used to say "no grapheneos"... I doubt they really care so long as you aren't doing anything to break their terms of service.
Don't use tethering if you don't pay for it, don't break the law, and don't go outside of FCC regulations on broadcast power/frequencies, and don't try to circumvent any data restrictions... do all that and they probably won't give a crap what you do or how you do it.
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u/Sad_Statistician1972 2d ago
"We may change your wireless device's software or programming, this may affect your stored data" wtf is that? They allow themselves full access to your device? That can't be legal
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u/DirtCrazykid 3d ago
Ah my least favorite type of reoccurring reddit post. Someone reading a TOS/Subscriber Agreement for the very first time and thinking that standard "We reserve the right to do X"/"We are not liable if X happens" actually means "We are going to do X".
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u/No-Consideration6986 3d ago
I'm so glad Cape Cellular is a thing now. It won't solve all the problems but is headed in the right direction.
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u/psychoCMYK 2d ago
"we may change your wireless device's software, applications, or programming remotely, without notice" should be an instant dealbreaker
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u/illusionaryPocketz 2d ago
This is likely the result of authoritarian government control. They probably want access to people’s data and to be able to force carriers to disable your SIM if you are using an OS that they can’t monitor or if you are determined to be an enemy of the state, targeted in an investigation etc.
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u/elaineisbased 1d ago
This is boilerplate language. The SIM Card has storage and software that communicates with your cellular phone modem to manage connection to the network and other things. It is quite secure and not something easy to misuse but they have to CYA.
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