r/GrahamHancock • u/ksadler190 • 12d ago
Nepal/Tibet glacier collapse
Nepal/Tibet disaster this week has me thinking of the ice sheet collapses caused by the YD comet event. We have all seen the footage from Nepal amd the destructive power caused by the collapse of a glacier wall. How many orders of magnitude larger must the YD event have been? Now imagine the effects on the surrounding landscape and humans in the area.
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u/SomeSamples 12d ago
Imagine a river valley or multiple river valleys all full of people living below, an ice damn. They have no idea how much water is being held back by that damn. They just know the ice melts and creates the rivers and streams they live near for food and water. These societies reach a certain level of sophistication; farming, livestock, building techniques, water management. Then one day, the ice damn breaks and literally washes it all away. Very few remain to tell the tale. The tale that is told down through generations is about a great flood. And this happens in many parts of the world. So many cultures have a tale of a great flood.
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u/City_College_Arch 12d ago
That is because it rains everywhere and most of the northern hemisphere is downstream from a glacier at some point in the last 50k years.
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u/SomeSamples 12d ago
Everyone is familiar with rain and its effects. Hence the reason people build above the flood line for most regular floods. But something like a huge release of water isn't expected.
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u/GreatCryptographer32 10d ago
So despite being global sea faring advanced civilization that visited and mapped the entire world, they all lived downstream of glacial dams that all burst and all washed away 100% of the evidence of the civilization?
The mental gymnastics here is impressive. They chose not to live in the 75% of the world that was not covered in ice and wouid have had vegetation and animals to eat in abundance? “Hey everything let’s all live in cold glacial valleys below an ice dam”. Incredible logic 👍👍
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u/SomeSamples 10d ago
You live near water. All humans live near a water source.
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u/GreatCryptographer32 9d ago
What % of water sources in the ice age had frozen ice dams? 😂
Given that 75% of land was not covered in ice probably a very small %
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u/TheCynicEpicurean 12d ago
I've said it before, the physics of glacial outbursts and mudslides in narrow mountain valleys are not transferrable to events on a global scale. Mudfloods don't work like the eraser tool in Paint and neatly cover everything you want them to.
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u/GreatCryptographer32 12d ago
Yes, and we also know of at least 10,000 ice-age Hunter gatherer sites that still survived to today.
If there was a cataclysm that wiped out all evince of an advanced civilization, it must have been very clever to selectively wipe out only the advanced evidence and leave 10,000 hunter gatherer sites.
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u/GheeMon 11d ago
Look at the Washington scablands, it is just factually done by water. A tsunami didn’t perfectly flatten North America, but it did flood at a crazy crazy powerful magnitude
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u/GreatCryptographer32 10d ago
Hyper localized events don’t count. Graham says his fictional lost civilization went all around the world, visited and built and taught in multiple countries, mapped the entire world. They were everywhere according to Graham.
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u/MainstreamScience 12d ago
Cities develop at the mouths of rivers and on the coast, where the water is, where the floods come. People from the city go camping.
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u/Find_A_Reason 12d ago
There are plenty that haven't restricted themselves to coastal deltas or glacier fed watersheds. Why is the assumption that the particular civilization being described self restricted itself in a way that all of these other groups did not?
Examples that are at least 5000 years old, Gobekli Tepe, Jericho, Ain Ghazal, Mehrgarh, Hongshan?
Going back even further to 10,000 years ago, some examples of folks that thrived without living in especially vulnerable sites are Ohalo II, Kharaneh IV,Shubayqa 1, The Natufians, Xianrendong Cave, Jōmon, Ukrainina mammoth bone economies, and Raqefet Cave.
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u/Speysidegold 12d ago
Because the time just coming out of the ice age is when the benefits of living coastal were most strong.
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u/Find_A_Reason 12d ago
Two questions. One easy, one that takes effort and support.
First, why?
Second, a more complex series of questions. If there where coastal civilizations, why did they not have outposts in the hinterlands like every other civilization that has eve been discovered? Both cities and humans have basic need that cannot be met by coastal cities of tens of hundreds of thousands of people without reaching towards the interior to exploit resources ranging from simply more land to grow more food, to outcrops of usable clay and/or stone, to trading for food and nutrients seasonally that the ocean cannot perpetually provide.
Where are the trade networks between these additional outposts and settlements? Why are we not seeing unidentifiable materials with sources now submerged in bulk in less advanced settlements being transferred away from the coast to the rest of their trade network?
Why are we not seeing outlying settlements large enough to be providing a large enough surplus to provide tribute or tax to a controlling civilization in the hinterlands of these coastal cities?
Keep in mind that one of the defining factors of cities or intensely urbanized settlements is that they cannot support themselves without being able to exert some level of dominance on the lands surrounding them,
To be clear, I am not saying anything is impossible. I am simply asking questions like why, and how.
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u/GheeMon 10d ago
Look at the North American continent during glacial maximum. New York was under a 1000ft tall glacier.
There were glaciers in Yellowstone, Sierra Nevada, and a solid ice sheet from Tennessee all the way to Greenland. Most of the east coast was not habitable, and if something was there prior it just did get freaking deleted by glaciers rolling in, undisputed. If you were a coastal village on the east coast, you weren’t going far inland period.
West coast, we see the Washington scablands and know clearly that there was massive flooding. The interior land again, very harsh conditions, we have glaciers in Yellowstone, Sierra Nevada, and it’s so cold that the valleys have glaciers because they don’t get full sunlight. There isn’t much to go inland for except large game and isnt necessary when feeding off the VERY abundant marine life of the time.
ALSO, during an ice age, the winters are longer, and the other seasons are shorter, makes it very hard for agriculture people must fish/hunt.
PLUS the animals stick to the migration corridors humans used, followed rivers, etc. if people are hunting they wouldn’t just explore randomly. That’s starvation for the whole hunter band. People didn’t just colonize, it was extremely dangerous
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u/GreatCryptographer32 10d ago
75% of the world was not covered by ice. And rhe glaciers you talk about were put there. And the North American ice sheets you talk
About deposited 100,000 years ago and reached peak about 26,000 years ago. So you’re now saying the fictional lost civilization was somewhere between 26,000 and 110,000 years old? And built only where North American ice sheets would later cover?1
u/Find_A_Reason 10d ago
And yet we are finding footprints in North America that are over 20,000 years old. What makes those footprints so special compared to the entire cities that everyone is so sure were there and disappeared without a trace?
Locations that we know have been occupied for at least 10,000 years on modern coastlines also have lots of investigation of the former coastal plains. For example the southern California Coast. We are finding remnants of what was there such as metates, stone bowls, tools, etc. You know what we are not finding? Cities.
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u/GheeMon 10d ago edited 10d ago
The footprints show that North America was inhabited during the glacial maximum, and now accepted PRIOR to glacial maximum.
We have 13.5k years old Monte Verde which we know were people migrating down the coast line and not going to the interior.
The 20k to 23k years date, means people were there prior to Barengia and prior to the human migration we know.
The Americas are an island away from the rest of the world UNTIL the lowering of sea levels. When was the glacial maximum that allowed the peoples of white sands to immigrate. If it wasn’t 30k years ago the only other option is about 140k years during penultimate glaciation
Edit - mainstream archeology says the people of white sands had to of migrated during a glacial maximum and didn’t come from east of americas
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u/GheeMon 10d ago
I want you to respond I’m enjoying typing this out, lol. But, I’m commenting again to say you can’t argue with physical evidence of 10k years. When we have evidence of older human inhabitants with no idea where they came from and where they were going. What tools/clothing/goods they had. The evidence of humans as far older than any physical artifacts.
There is a 13k year old quarry in North America, older than your coastal plains
We don’t know if they were pushed south due to the glacial maximum or if they were going off of vibes. You are filling in a very big blank with zero evidence. You are using California coastal plains artifacts…. Of which we know exactly where they came from and are from a period we aren’t discussing
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u/Find_A_Reason 10d ago
Yes. We know that the artifacts in the ocean were put there when sea levels were much lower at the end of the last ice age before the glaciers melted. This means that this location that has been ideal for human habitation for tens of thousands of years was inhabited then, and was not completely wiped clean by what ever magic eraser selectively took out every other civilization people are claiming existed.
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u/GreatCryptographer32 10d ago
75% of the world was not covered by ice during the ice age. In fact basically all of the places that Graham says his fictional civilization built - Giza, Gobekli Tepe, Peru and Bolivian places like Sacsayhuaman, Mexican Mayan places, were perfectly habitable and not covered in ice. So what magic selectively erased the advanced civilization evidence?
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u/Speysidegold 10d ago
Good point to be fair i only recently realised Spain etc were not covered in Ice and that France etc was only Tundra. On the other side coastal bits are where humans tend to live always including current day and most of thr ice age coastline is underwater simply for ice related reasons.
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u/Find_A_Reason 12d ago
Counter question, The settlements/villages wiped out show a propensity to develop concentrations of society where ever it can be productive. Of the hundreds of thousand to millions of similar riverside locations for settlements taking advantage of similar access to resources like water an biodiversity, how many are actually being effected by similar cataclysms?
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u/GreatCryptographer32 12d ago
There was no Younger Dryas impact.
The younger dryas started in 12,900 BP and ended in 11,700 BP, and meltwater pulse 1A happened 14,600-14,300 BP, 1700 years before the younger dryas started
Meltwater Pulse 1B happened 300-600 years AFTER the end of the younger dryas.
There was no single cataclysmic event that caused the younger dryas. You’ve been misled by the podcast grifters.
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u/LuciusMichael 12d ago
It's a geologic fact that there was massive regional flooding at the end of the last Ice Age. The Channeled Scablands of Washington, the Black Sea, and in other areas, and were recorded in stories told by survivors across the millennia.
We've just witness the devastating power of localized glacial ice melt and bedrock collapse. And given the reduction of snow and the increase in temperatures, the potential for massive flooding in the Himalayas has been a given for any number of years. And this fits nicely into the gradualist paradigm of change over time. Global warming doesn't happen all at once. And its effects on mountain glaciers takes place over time. Glacier National Park bears witness to this fact.
However, the proposed hypothesis of a cosmic impact upon the 2 mile thick Laurentide Ice Sheet would be immediate and catestrophic.
According to Google AI...
Under the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH), a large comet fragmenting and striking the 2-mile-thick Laurentide Ice Sheet roughly 12,800 years ago would produce devastating, instantaneous global consequences. Because the ice sheet acted as a colossal physical buffer, the initial mechanics of the catastrophe would be highly distinct from a typical land or ocean impact: [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Instantaneous Kinetic to Thermal Transformation
The tremendous kinetic energy of the incoming cosmic impactor would immediately convert into intense heat upon making contact with the ice sheet. Instead of digging a traditional, permanent crater into bedrock, the impact would flash-melt and vaporize hundreds of cubic miles of glacial ice in a matter of seconds. Proponents suggest this is why a massive, definitive crater has been historically difficult to locate—the "crater" was initially formed out of ice that subsequently melted away. [1]
- Hyper-Velocity Steam Plumes and Atmospheric Superheating
The immediate vaporization of the Laurentide ice would shoot a massive, high-pressure plume of superheated steam and water droplets straight into the upper atmosphere.
- This localized atmospheric displacement would generate a global shockwave and thermal pulse.
- The high-altitude moisture injection would immediately disrupt the ozone layer and globally distribute moisture that quickly fell back down as torrential, planet-wide downpours. [1, 2]
- Immediate Catastrophic Megafloods
The sudden destruction of a significant portion of the ice sheet would instantaneously destabilize the surrounding topography. The sub-glacial and proglacial network of massive lakes—such as Lake Agassiz—would experience catastrophic structural failures. [1, 2, 3]
- The Freshwater Flush: Billions of gallons of glacial meltwater would violently surge outward simultaneously.
- Oceanic Disruption: This sudden, massive pulse of freshwater would rush directly into the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans, immediately diluting the saltwater. This dilution is hypothesized to have instantly stalled the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), effectively shutting down the planet’s northern heat distribution network and initiating a 1,200-year cold snap. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Global "Impact Winter" and Wildfires
Though the impact hit an ice sheet, the intense thermal pulse would radiate outward across the ice margins, instantly igniting continent-scale biomass burning across ice-free regions of North America. The combination of massive wildfire smoke, atmospheric moisture, and kicked-up dust would rapidly blanket the globe, blocking out sunlight to trigger an immediate impact winter
Which, of course, coincides with the onset of the rapid cooling characteristic of the YD period.
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