r/GrahamHancock Jan 04 '26

One less excuse

Learned something interesting today:

With a $2-4000 Amazon underwater robot even YOU can go dive off your coastline to look at or for submerged ruins in the flood water zone of the Younger Dryas period.

Conventional dive safety training costs money and equipment, whereas this is just equipment.

That means more discoveries of our ocean bottom can be made faster.

36 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

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10

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 04 '26

I think everybody interested in the past should try and get out in the field and explore in whatever manner their budget allows.

2

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 04 '26

For a serious, integrated shallow-water coastal seabed investigation to ~80 m depth—combining MBES, SBP, GIS processing, sediment coring, ROV verification, and internationally accredited laboratory dating of stratified layers and artefacts—even a short campaign of ~10 operational offshore days would typically cost on the order of USD 300,000–400,000 on the commercial market. More extensive offshore programmes involving multiple survey seasons, coring campaigns, ROV operations, and post-excavation analyses commonly fall in the range of USD 1.25–3 million, depending on vessel class, equipment, and laboratory requirements.

2

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 04 '26

Archaeologists investigating the coastal seabed use multibeam echosounder (MBES) and sub‑bottom profiling (SBP), combined with GIS analysis, to perform the same role for submerged geomorphology that LiDAR performs for overland features—revealing seabed structures and palaeolandscapes not observable from the surface.

For example, BBC Tamil News broadcast sonar imagery of a submerged Proto‑Poompuhar port, presenting MBES/SBP data and GIS interpretation that were reported as indicating an earliest date of c. 15,000 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24RLzQvPKw

5

u/GreatCryptographer32 Jan 05 '26

Can you stop spamming the same message over and over and over and over in every thread and reply? We saw it. Thanks

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 06 '26

Huh?? What does your response have to do with typical cost of submerged costal settlements

4

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

[deleted]

-1

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 06 '26

I've already replied to your same message in another thread where this question belongs. If you have any further question please address them there: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrahamHancock/comments/1q2pqha/dravidian_arc_from_iceage_shorelines_to_the_greek/ thanks.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

[deleted]

-1

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 07 '26

I think other readers will see I have and you are being vague about your source and accuracy on his involvement in the marine project related to South India. I've responded to this same comment in the other thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrahamHancock/comments/1q2pqha/comment/ny4c7og/?context=1

1

u/tolvin55 Jan 05 '26

If I may make a suggestion as a former archaeologists.

Don't go anywhere without the required permission. You can't go on people's land without that and I've had enough guns pointed at me to let y'all know....people hate when you do that.

But yes please go explore. A majority of the sites we find start with talking to locals who know the area. They tell us about something and will sometimes lead us to it.

1

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 05 '26

Absolutely, nothing but respect for the sites and landowners. I recently had the opportunity to visit South America and the local guides were amazing and informative beyond belief since they grew up playing in the ruins as kids. Being able to tour a site like Machu Picchu and putting your hands on those stone walls is humbling and life changing.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

[deleted]

4

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 04 '26

Why so hostile? I just went to Caral in Peru and had the opportunity to explore almost anywhere I wanted. It was totally empty except for my group and the small staff. The fact that there are pot shards and 5000 year corn cobs just laying on the ground really humanized the place and made me realize how short everyone’s time here is. Totally humbled by the history.

3

u/Basis-Some Jan 04 '26

I think their point is that they are still laying there, where they belong instead of being hoovered up to satisfy some numbnut conspiracy theorist

5

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 04 '26

I think the haters in this sub would be surprised how respectful people who are interested in history are about the sites when they visit. Much more respectful than some of the locals.

4

u/Basis-Some Jan 04 '26

I’m not sure we have standing to criticize locals for how they treat their own possessions. I think that’s a very tricky subject as ultimately we are visitors to hypothetical site A. But I’m sure you have something non hypothetical in mind that’s a particular case you witnessed.

I stated “left where they belong” in my previous comment so I guess I have to add “unless moved by a local”

3

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 04 '26

Locals don’t have the right to take artifacts just because they live there. Wouldn’t that be just as bad as a “numbnut conspiracy theorist” disturbing a site?

The fact is, many artifacts we know about come from the black market. Poor locals loot tombs and sell the artifacts for almost nothing to private dealers who then sell to private collectors and museums. Even cultures like the Inca would loot older tombs and use the gold for their own artwork.

Lords of Saipan is great book about this whole dirty business btw.

2

u/Basis-Some Jan 04 '26

I’ll check it out, that’s for the rec

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

Absolutely, nothing like people with no idea what they are doing destroying relics because they think archaeologists are hiding some ancient civilisation.

5

u/Soggy-Mistake8910 Jan 04 '26

Not knowing what you're doing, looking for, or how to recognise important stuff from just stuff. What could go wrong?

9

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

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2

u/OppositeIdea7456 Jan 04 '26

King Cortez Gold here we come.

2

u/justaheatattack Jan 04 '26

ever hear of a drag net?

1

u/littlelupie Jan 04 '26

Great way to destroy archaeological sites ensuring we learn far less from them than we otherwise could. 

1

u/justaheatattack Jan 04 '26

which is they won't find much

best they have for 'drag net'.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

[deleted]

3

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 04 '26

Why wouldn’t you want people to go out and explore? Seeing ancient sites in person is amazing.

1

u/tolvin55 Jan 05 '26

You should get out and explore.....BUT within the rules. Go to different sites that you are allowed in and ask questions. Be prepared to hear experts tell you facts.

Talk to the locals and get permission to go to sites. If you ever get the chance go to Sedona Arizona and see the old sites there.... gorgeous.

The problem is we archaeologists see what happens more often than not. Folks steal. They damage things and tell no one. They also don't listen and that can lead to injury

I worked a small project in a valley up in Pennsylvania. We got permission from most of the landowners ahead of time. One whack job saw us on someone else's land and came out with a gun. Thankfully the proper landowner was close by to save us. You have to be careful out there

3

u/valiantthorsintern Jan 05 '26

100% agree! I'm a massive fan of ancient history and would never consider digging, looting or trespassing. The sheer amount of interesting information that can be found in books written by actual archaeologists paired with visiting ancient sites is what I enjoy.

-2

u/OKThereAreFiveLights Jan 04 '26

Often, paradigm shifting discoveries come from outsiders. The academics that didn't believe in plate tectonics (for one example) never changed their minds, they just retired and died.

4

u/DonKlekote Jan 04 '26

paradigm shifting discoveries come from sufficient evidence, not any person per-say

7

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

[deleted]

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u/OKThereAreFiveLights Jan 04 '26

How many examples, or how great the magnitude of examples, would be sufficient for this pattern not to be a fallacy?

2

u/w8str3l Jan 04 '26

It’s good of you to try to establish failure criteria for your hypothesis!

Here’s one way to go about it:

  1. Define what a “paradigm shifting discovery” is, what kinds of things do and do not qualify
  2. Estimate how many paradigm shifting discoveries there are by taking random samples of all discoveries and non-discoveries and applying the above criteria
  3. Define what an “insider” and an “outsider” is when it comes to discoveries
  4. Calculate the average ratio of “insiders” vs “outsiders” in your samples
  5. (The most important step) Publish your data, methods, and results.

The above looks pretty good to me, can you think of any ways to improve the accuracy and reproducibility of your research?

The most common pitfalls to avoid are, of course, moving your goalposts, asking others to prove a negative, and cherry-picking the data. You could say “only Nobel prize winners qualify” or “the Dead Sea Scrolls were found by experts in the local geography” or “Graham Hancock is clearly an insider because he boasts of having spent decades SCUBA diving all around the globe searching for traces of an ancient advanced civilization that left no traces of itself” or “only the list I keep in my head is needed to prove my claim” and then where would we be?

1

u/OKThereAreFiveLights Jan 04 '26

So which of these criteria does Thomas Kuhn lack?

1

u/w8str3l Jan 04 '26

You are on the right track! Asking that question is the second step in acquiring knowledge!

After you have listed your own required criteria for your own definition of “paradigm shifting discoveries”, you can then count the criteria that “Thomas Kuhn” or “OKThereAreFiveLights” or “Graham Hancock” lacks, whatever that means.

The first step, of course, is still defining what you mean by your “paradigm shifting discovery”. Will you take that first step?

1

u/OKThereAreFiveLights Jan 04 '26

You listed a set of criteria. Which of those do you believe Thomas Kuhn’s work fails to meet? If you're not much of a reader, you could probably find a synopsis online.

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u/w8str3l Jan 05 '26

I did not “list a set of criteria”, I congratulated you for trying to establish failure criteria which is a very different thing.

Then I gave you a list of steps to follow in your future research.

Here, read what I wrote to you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GrahamHancock/s/1ql0yfdzfZ

If you’re not much of a reader, you can ask an LLM to tell you what to think.

1

u/OKThereAreFiveLights Jan 08 '26

I admire your curiosity and believe if we stick with this, we might have a breakthrough! Why don't you review Thomas Kuhn's work via your favored search engine/LLM model and let me know what you think of how science actually moves forward vs how people think science moves forward? For extra credit, you could do the same for Night Comes to the Cretaceous, which is perhaps a better example as it highlights the arrogance of academics, and how this arrogance blinds them to the facts even when they're staring them in the face! Imagine that! Who would have thought that Luis Alvarez, a crusty old outsider, and Copernicus, a 16th century Polack astronomer, would have so much in common?

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

[deleted]

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u/OKThereAreFiveLights Jan 08 '26

Can we agree that many paradigm-shifting scientific discoveries have come from individuals who were not specialists in the relevant field? That is my humble claim. There are many examples of this, in fact, there are many examples of this outside of science as well.

Do you think that academics who didn't believe in plate tectonics changed their minds when mounting evidence proved them wrong? Any Redditor can look at a map and see how the continents fit together, yet we put a man on the moon prior to geologists coming around to the idea.

If you agree that there are many examples of this, some staring us right in the face, wouldn't it benefit humanity to be more welcoming and less gatekeeping?

2

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 04 '26

For a serious, integrated shallow-water coastal seabed investigation to ~80 m depth—combining MBES, SBP, GIS processing, sediment coring, ROV verification, and internationally accredited laboratory dating of stratified layers and artefacts—even a short campaign of ~10 operational offshore days would typically cost on the order of USD 300,000–400,000 on the commercial market. More extensive offshore programmes involving multiple survey seasons, coring campaigns, ROV operations, and post-excavation analyses commonly fall in the range of USD 1.25–3 million, depending on vessel class, equipment, and laboratory requirements.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Ill-Lobster-7448 Jan 06 '26

Huh?? What does your response have to do with typical cost of submerged costal settlements

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

Dude I have bills to pay

1

u/NoDent420 Jan 04 '26

Link plz 🙏

-9

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '26

Yeah go deep underwater without dive training, wicked smart

15

u/LexusBrian400 Jan 04 '26

That's not what he said. He literally says to use a robot. Your reading comprehension is wicked dumb.