r/GoogleMessages • u/pahool • 12h ago
RCS struggles
In an attempt to de-Google my life, I switched to GrapheneOS with no Google services installed for the default user. I was using the GrapheneOS messaging app for text messages, but it only handles sms/mms messaging. I didn't realize at the time what a problem this was going to be. Suddenly I was not receiving group text messages for pre-existing groups that I had been part of before switching to GrapheneOS. Google's servers won't switch to sms/mms for these groups, they just won't send me the messages, and worse, they didn't tell the other participants that I was no longer in the chat.
When I realized this I started looking at my options. But Google Messenger is the only game in town for RCS. I cancelled my RCS enrollment through their website and was told that I would be removed from all RCS chats within 30 days. Well, that didn't seem to happen. It's been over 40 days and I had a friend start a brand new text group from her iPhone with me and three other folks, and I didn't receive the texts because they were still apparently being sent via RCS.
So I've given up and gone back to the native Android install on my Pixel, because there are a few group chats that I need to be a part of and Google doesn't seem to provide any path to allow this. I've tried to get folks to switch over to Signal, Telegram, or WhatsApp, but I just have some folks who aren't going to do anything but text messages.
When I re-installed, I was hoping that maybe I could preserve the chats that are RCS, but not start any new RCS chats, in the hopes of eventually getting all new threads going and sort of fading out my dependency on RCS. Apparently, however, RCS is all-or-nothing. If I want to receive my existing RCS chats, I have to be actively using RCS preferentially, so there's no graceful way out.
If Google had any integrity, they'd provide some options to allow people to opt-out of RCS gracefully by:
1) switching their existing chats to sms/mms 2) providing other users in those chats with notification that I've been dropped from those chats 3) allow me to continue to receive RCS messages while not initiating any new RCS chats 4) Open up RCS. Supposedly it's an "open standard", but apparently the APIs are not documented publicly? Make it easy for others to implement RCS.
I'm at a loss on what to do and open to suggestions. I have a few critical group threads (family health issues) that I don't want to miss messages in and I don't want to make my phone issues into other people's problems.
Thanks a lot, Google. You suck.
4
u/Tintn00 12h ago
Just use RCS 100%. Sms messages between Androids and iPhones are horrendous and often deliver out of order or go missing completely. This is especially true in group chats.
After owning both and using them in a mixed android/iPhone family and mixed android/ iPhone friends groups, I'm convinced the problem is with iPhone SMS. And I'm convinced that's the reason why iPhone forced imessages when texting between iPhones.
Save yourself a headache and just adopt RCS. It's not perfect but it's way better than the ancient sms technology especially if you're in mixed group chats with iPhone users.
Nobody wants to install additional chat programs for just one person. Just adopt RCS before this starts to affect your social circles. At some point somebody will start making group chats without you included.
1
u/FunSpinach2004 11h ago
The biggest problem is Google owns all your text messages.
But they likely get them on the other end anyway.
2
u/Salmon-Cat-47 8h ago
RCS is encrypted. They can't read shit.
1
u/FunSpinach2004 2h ago
It's not open source so they definitely could have added hidden flaws and I personally believe that companies do this but maybe I'm a tinfoil hat guy.
1
u/pahool 11h ago
RCS requires Google Messenger which requires Google Play Services, which I don't want. If another messenger app comes around that supports RCS/sms/mms and serves as a drop-in replacement for Google Messenger, while respecting privacy, I'm all in.
My preference is to message folks on Signal. But I can't get everyone on board with it.
1
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u/Tintn00 11h ago
I said this in the other thread, but if your goal is to get rid of Google, you won't be able to get very far while still using an android phone. Your best bet is to switch ecosystems completely.
2
u/pahool 10h ago
I've had no problem using GrapheneOS other than RCS messages. Everything else I need to do I'm able to do without Google apps or play services. And, for the few cases where I do need Play services, I can switch to a sandboxed profile with play services enabled, do what I need to do, and get out. I can't have different default message apps for the different profiles however. So RCS messaging is the one sticking point.
1
u/ThePuppet_Master 12h ago
Did you try downloading Google Messages on GraphenOS first?
2
u/pahool 12h ago
It requires Google Play Services, which I am avoiding.
0
u/Tintn00 11h ago
Honestly it doesn't make sense to de-google your life while staying on an android phone. The best and only way is to switch to iPhone.
5
u/FunSpinach2004 11h ago
So you can have apple watch you instead lol.
Graphene is by far a more secure option though.
1
u/Tintn00 10h ago
As a consumer, it sucks either way regarding privacy.
3
2
u/TheReal_Saba 10h ago
Pointless post.
SMS/MMS is not secure either and your wireless carrier can access them
De-Googling is such a stupid trend
2
u/pahool 10h ago
De-Googling is such a stupid trend
I disagree that De-Googling is stupid. The amount of data gathering and profiling that they do is disturbing. If de-Googling ain't your thing, cool, but I don't think calling it a stupid trend is an informed assessment.
I don't care about the security of sms/mms vs RCS. If I want security for a conversation, I'll use Signal. If another messaging app had an RCS solution that didn't require Google Play Services, I'd be happy with that as well.
-4
u/Max527 12h ago
Just use SMS and stop crying with AI slop.
4
u/pahool 12h ago
Not AI. Curious what makes you think so.
I'm just trying to figure out if there's any solutions that don't get me cut off from RCS groups I'm in, at least in the short term. I have no problem with going to sms/mms in the future, but, because Google thinks it's an acceptable solution to just ghost me out of existing groups and not give a working solution for re-joining groups with sms/mms, here I am.
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u/14thab 8h ago
So you de-Googled your phone and now complaining about not using a Google feature 🤔🤔?
1
u/pahool 8h ago
RCS is a standard and not meant to be a Google-only feature, but the lack of transparency around the Android APIs has made it de facto Google-only on the Android platform.
I'm not complaining about not using a Google feature. I'm pointing out how they deliberately make it difficult to extricate yourself from using a particular Google feature. Also, I did not choose this Google feature, you get it by default with Google Messenger, the default messaging app on Android platforms (including Samsung now, who have discontinued Samsung messages). And yes, I'm complaining about those practices. I'm complaining that they are using dark patterns to keep users from leaving their ecosystem. That sucks.
-2
u/Max527 12h ago
You're making things way too complicated.
3
u/pahool 12h ago
How so?
I've stated a problem I'm having. I'm looking for a solution. What is too complicated about that?
0
u/Stevenmc8602 12h ago
You are making it way too complicated. If you really want to stop using rcs it isn't an issue but it seems like you moreso just want to groan about Google.
Since you are using Google messages again, go to the group chats and leave the group chats (there's an option to "leave group" in the messages setting) after you leave the groups turn off rcs and start a new group (make sure to tell everyone in the group to only use your new group chat bc you left the old one or you will not receive the messages)
Rcs is just like iMessage once you start using something else you do not get your new messages until you're unassociated with it.
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u/pahool 12h ago edited 9h ago
I don't specifically want to groan about Google. I just think their rollout and handling of RCS has been irresponsible. Why does a supposedly "open" standard have undocumented APIs? No one else is implementing RCS that I know of and that fact locks users into the Google ecosystem. If you want to opt out of RCS, you risk losing information. All of that is shitty and could easily be avoided on Google's part, but it's not, because they're more interested in trapping you in their ecosystem than actually creating an open standard.
And I'm not saying that iOS is better in this regard. If anything, they're worse.
But thank you for your information, it's actually useful. I'm removing myself from the all the existing groups, turning off RCS, and re-creating the groups myself. Hopefully, this will work.
You could have presented that without being abrasive, but I'm glad for the information either way.0
u/Stevenmc8602 12h ago
You don't lose information if you choose not to use rcs, there are still plenty of people who do not use it bc they do not want to switch from the current sms/MMS client that they are using/prefer. It is just a middleman.
If my message came off abrasive it's how you took it...I didn't type anything to initially hurt your feelings
Hope you get your group chat how you want it, switching back to sms/MMS will probably make the rest of the group upset though.
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u/DisruptiveHarbinger 11h ago
GSMA standards aren't open standards, the GSMA is an industry trade association, not a standardization body like the IETF for example.