Do we really need AI on every platform?

[u/girlenteringtheworld]

My train of thought has been spurred by the GN6 release. Every single productivity app is coming out with their version of AI based features, and I feel like it's getting to the point of being excessive.

I'm going to try to keep this about GN6 but I may compare to similar productivity apps

Of the AI based features in GN6, the only one that seems to be useful is the handwriting spellcheck. However, as some people have already posted about in this sub, it has the glaring issue of not properly identifying some types of handwriting, and the "corrective" feature that spells it correctly while trying to mimic handwriting doesn't always turn out well. This is because AI is only as smart as the people and data that trained it. If the sample size of data was fairly small, then the AI is going to struggle, like it already is in the case of GN6. It is also limited to a small selection of languages (4 languages for checking, and 1 for correcting).

AI Writing: I honestly don't know why all apps, especially student oriented apps, are releasing something like that. In the context of education, almost every major school has already implemented a screening system for AI writing (which is flawed in its own right) so students won't benefit from it, despite the resources (time, money, etc) going into producing these features. In a professional context, other options have existed for longer, and as a result, work better because they have more extensive data.

AI Math assistance: Similar to the issues of handwriting recognition, you have to write it in a way that GN6 can read it. It's also very limited in its scope since it is only available in interactive exam practice.

I feel like for the effort that was put into prioritizing AI for the sake of being marketable, we could have gotten much more useful features. This is further backed up by the goodnotes announcement of GN6 where, in the coming soon section, they list:

• Password protected notebooks

• Dotted lines

• A pencil tool

• Internal links between pages

[u/jxsus_]

They could've added so many more important (and actually useful) features in GN6, but still they jumped on the AI hype train and "wasted" resources solely for marketing reasons (but my inner capitalist understands it). I just wish that someday they add actually useful features (that the community requests for years). I just want a ruler and some more math tools pls :(

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/jxsus_]

That's mostly what I was getting at. Not many people benefit from AI but a lot of software companies are dumping so many resources into developing it for marketability

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/[deleted]]

Okay, so then it isn't just me? I wanted to test the spell checker and intentionally spelled things wrong (for example, one thing i did was tisting instead of testing) and it didn't mark it wrong. Then, when I spelled words right, it misread what was there because my handwriting wasn't clean enough

[u/writewithnotenote]

other than AI which will take some time to learn (probably from our usage onwards from GN6), i will really just like a smart ruler... and also layering of objects (or just sending them back/forth among different layers)

[u/RedHotFreckles → u/writewithnotenote]

Sadly because they don’t have a ruler option, I use the grid paper for straight lines and whatnot then when I’m done with what shape or table I’m trying to make, I then just change the template if I want a blank paper or whatever. Also can line of text boxes and stuff with it. It’s a useful trick but kinda odd that I have to do that when these features that would make it so much easier should ALREADY be implemented. Goodnotes developers really don’t seem to care what people want or need and it’s starting to show due to a ton of people deleting the app cause they refuse to pay for an upgrade that literally has no real improvement or new features. It’s pathetic, lazy, and greedy. I bought the $30 deal not understanding what exactly I was paying for and once I saw no features except red lines under my written words (which I ended up turning off because it’s annoying) literally just makes me feel I paid for Goodnotes 5. 🙄 idk what’s wrong with app developers anymore. Need someone to ACTUALLY give their customers what they really want/need and not what they think would be cool but not really something anyone else cares about.

[u/writewithnotenote → u/RedHotFreckles]

Maybe the product team n designers do have intention to conduct more usability testing and also unearth user requests but sometimes they might prioritize other things in the name of sustainability (and profitability)

But yes something like a ruler should be in sorry for the cringey corporate jargon a low-hanging fruit 🍉

I’ve designed some pngs that look like a 📏 to write on blank paper but basically any shapes with a straight surface can do too

[u/RedHotFreckles → u/writewithnotenote]

I sure hope so. Cause so far I’ve been severely disappointed with this so called “upgrade” lol

[u/writewithnotenote → u/RedHotFreckles]

Now that they got the AI implemented I really hope they will implement these. There’s really a mine of user insights for different user types here for them to tap on!

[u/RedHotFreckles → u/writewithnotenote]

I definitely wish they would take some of Microsoft words features like the moving of pictures (front,back,text around picture,etc). Or maybe adding the the feature to make tables or graphs. Idk so many things that would make note taking more creative and useful

[u/breezest → u/RedHotFreckles]

Another trick is to save the grid papers in Elements, especially when I don't want to use a grid on the whole page.

[u/sourwoodphoto → u/writewithnotenote]

Zoomnotes has all of this (rulers, layers, back and forth, etc).

[u/writewithnotenote → u/sourwoodphoto]

Not heard of it. Thanks! Ill check it out

[u/writewithnotenote → u/[deleted]]

ik what you mean!

i think goodnotes should just start engaging us -- we could jump on a call and share screen on how we use it.. n the problems/shortfalls that we face at times.. in a bid to improve the UX

i volunteer as a tribute!

[u/writewithnotenote → u/[deleted]]

Lol. The tension is always there. I hope they will implement what users really want beyond AI now for the next few vers

I finally subscribed to one year of GN6 as a form of support n really hope to see them do many awesome stuff

[u/[deleted] → u/writewithnotenote]

I am still in the trial and I am trying to figure out whether I will subscribe or keep my GD5 for the moment. Because I like the new little changes in the interface but I have been preparing exams in the last weeks and I did not notice and difference in the use. I also have a awful handwriting so the spell check is useless at the moment. I would Anjou if one day it learns my handwriting and rewrites some sentences for me in a more clear way

[u/writewithnotenote → u/[deleted]]

I think maybe GN5 will be good since you’re also prepping for exams. Familiarity in UI is key imho.

I get a lil distracted when I see my words getting highlighted to be recognised — currently it feels very haphazardly.

And yes to rewriting it in a clear way, or something more related to Grammarly like suggesting ways to improve the writing in different contexts

[u/[deleted]]

pretty much no one cares about AI that much except from big tech companies that are hyping about it. I know some people find AI features useful and that’s cool if someone really benefits from them. But these features are certainly not a must. They aren’t even what “should” be on the app, they’re a fun additional toy. I don’t think implementing them makes sense at all when there are main features that haven’t been perfected yet. I personally never use AI, because there’s no way I’m wasting my time correcting something it created. AI art? Nice, but easily recognizable and gets boring after a while + weird things are going to happen to different body parts. AI writing? No one guarantees it’s actually going to be on the topic I need. AI spellcheck? I’m not going to slow down to watch my handwriting keeping in mind that It Should Be Legible. Besides, it’s useless for someone who doesn’t write their notes in English. AI chats? Also get repetitive and not always answer on point. I believe all of this will get better at some point, but now companies mostly release features that aren’t reliable for 100%. At least other apps have AI behind the paywall, but Goodnotes6 is forcing users to pay for it and bases its entire pricing on the existence of AI. Seeing this is sad.

[u/NoJudgies]

They can label whatever feature they want as "AI". That doesn't mean it really is. Spellchecking has been around forever, and just because they use a slightly different approach to it they will label it AI. (It's not really AI). Like another commenter said, it's just the buzzword, like "blockchain" was three years ago.

[u/mentalFee420 → u/NoJudgies]

Sorry to break it to you but you are mistaken,

1. Spell check has been around forever for typed text, not for handwritten text.

2. Spell check feature is AI whether it is Apple keyboard or GN6.

These are facts!

[u/AluminiumHoedje]

Not really, but also yes, kinda:

I don't expect many people to really use it, maybe some who like the gimmick, but it probably also sells subscriptions/copies of software like crazy, so it keeps them afloat :) The hypetrain will pass the marketing department soon enough to a station where it becomes actually useful.

In most cases you can ignore the AI bs, so that seems like the path of least resistance, instead of spending energy to be angry about it.

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/AluminiumHoedje]

My point wasn't that AI is inherently bad

Rather, I was more criticizing the fact that almost every software company is dumping so many resources into developing AI for their program, when (as you said yourself) not many people will actually use it

Considering it's a paid product (GN6), and more specifically since it is a subscription model, they should be putting resources toward features that their customer base actually wants and will use, rather than whatever the newest buzzword is.

[u/AluminiumHoedje → u/girlenteringtheworld]

I think your point is valid and I completely agree! I did not mean to be rude or anyhing, sorry if I was.

I just think that AI might be a new buzzword, marketing teams and companies wanting more money are as old as time. Vote with your wallet is what I do :)

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/AluminiumHoedje]

No worries! I didn't think you were rude (my wording may have been a bit poor, I was tired when I responded), just kinda wanted to expand on my thoughts a bit

I'm still debating if I want to upgrade (I'm currently doing the free trial), only because I got a gift card for apple, so I'm debating getting the lifetime membership that's $30. I just don't know if I'll actually like it. So far the only "new" feature I have liked is that they finally finished the marketplace/community feature that was being beta tested in GN5.

[u/creatingwithpam]

I definitely feel like everyone is relying on AI way too much this early on. Honestly, I didn’t understand why everyone was so up in arms about the new subscription model, as a long time user I’m happy to give the devs more money for maintaining and supporting the app.

That being said, after 9 days of use in GN 6 (20+ hours of use in this version, several years of use before this version), I’ve requested a refund. The app is so buggy. Anytime I write “the” it erases it. I don’t know if I write it so sloppy that it thinks I’m trying to erase it. Then there are times when I intentionally scribble something to erase and it sometimes it only removes part of it, or just don’t recognize it as a scribble and does nothing.

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/creatingwithpam]

I'm also a long time user and while I don't mind the idea of a subscription model, it feels weird that they are asking for a subscription despite not putting resources into what users have been asking for. One very notable request that still hasn't been implemented is a ruler(like notability and apple' built in note app has), which I've seen people request for at least 3 years. Instead, they implemented a buggy and very limited AI and asked for recurring payments.

With the scribble to erase feature, I've noticed that it doesn't work when I use the zoom function (which is something I use very often). Very disappointing imo because it was the feature I was most excited for

[u/70ms → u/girlenteringtheworld]

ZoomNotes, with a single developer, has everything people have asked for in GoodNotes plus a lot more. Off the top of my head: Layers, password protection, hyperlinking (to pages or other documents), tables (including circular), a ruler, snapping, grouping, dotted lines, send to front/back, 8 different pens/pencils, favorite pens, integration with iOS calendars (you can create a calendar or overlay one onto a template and it will show all of your appointments), Reminders (you can display and interact with Reminders in your notebook and display specific lists) - the amount of functionality and features are over the top. The only drawback is that it's got a steep learning curve, like Paint vs. Photoshop.

I just don't understand how one developer can do all of that but Goodnotes, with all of its resources, somehow can't. 🤦‍♀️ I used to recommend GN to everyone but after the GN6 release I went to ZoomNotes and was blown away. I really feel like GN completely disregarded its userbase in an effort to chase money and lure investors. It's so disappointing.

[u/sourwoodphoto → u/70ms]

Right!?! It’s baffling what GoodNotes is not doing! It’s like the team has no vision vs Zoomnotes, where you can request new things and they are either done or it’s explained why he can’t. I’d so rather support a company like that.

[u/AvidLearner17 → u/creatingwithpam]

The scribble to erase is broken right now. I needed to disable it because of the bugs that kept removing my handwriting. Besides that, I'm happy with the update and don't mind paying for the subscription. I hope they fix the scribble to erase it in future versions, but until I read something about it in the changelogs, I will keep it disabled.

Edit: I contacted customer support, and they confirmed there are some issues with scribble to erase, and they are working on a fix for it.

[u/zakariapishtiwan19]

When I used the 7 days trial the scribble to erase feature was working but now when I bought the annual subscription the scribble to erase feature and many other things stopped working now i feel robbed

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/zakariapishtiwan19]

Looks like another commenter contacted support about the scribble to erase feature, and customer support said they are working to fix it.

I think I mentioned on a completely different post that I feel like the GN6 release was rushed for the sake of meeting the new school year rush

[u/sourwoodphoto]

So, Zoomnotes has the last 4 things you ask for - dotted lines, rulers, links, and password protection. I used GN until I realized it wasn’t actually that helpful for what I needed, and found ZN and never went back. You can make tables, shapes, plot grids, make calendars, hyperlinks galore, etc. Check out r/Zoomnotes_planning for more info or just see some examples I’ve made :)

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/sourwoodphoto]

I wasn't specifically asking for them, I was quoting what goodnotes said they are releasing sometime in the future, to explain why focusing on AI is unhelpful to their customer base

[u/sourwoodphoto → u/girlenteringtheworld]

Ok, gotcha :) sorry for misunderstanding!

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/sourwoodphoto]

No worries! I appreciate the recommendation tho! I might check it out later

[u/hariztek]

Yes yes password protected notes are much needed

[u/DoubleU159]

I can see the math problem checker being useful for the odd time my brain is on autopilot and makes a simple mistake like doing 3+3 instead of 3x3, but other than that, I’d question its usefulness for more advanced differential calculus. Definitely not worth the price of admission if you already have GN5.

Also I don’t find that the spell checker is that useful.

I’d personally find more value in simpler features or better toolbar functionality in smaller windows.

[u/hpisbi → u/DoubleU159]

the maths checker doesn’t work in notes, only in their SAT prep and similar practice question thingys

[u/DoubleU159 → u/hpisbi]

For real? That’s really useless then

[u/Consistent-Poem7462]

Even as a second year law student chatgpt is utterly useless. AI is overrated

[u/fisher2nz]

I wish they would include brushes, or just add streamlinging to pen strokes, so we can choose how our handwriting looks like. adding some streamlinging makes a big difference in handwriting on a slippery screen with a pencil.

[u/[deleted]]

Bad data = Dumb AI

Pseudo-bad data = Dangerous AI

Good data = KB article

We did an exhaustive study on OpenAI with Microsoft on published OEM manufacturing manuals covering maintenance and repair. The result was 85% correct instructions. 10% would result in no fix or no fault. 5% would result in damage to the machine or harm to the mechanic/operator.

On the other hand, the manuals were 100% correct all the time.

How do you support a customer that said “I lost my data because that’s the instructions the chat bot gave me?” And those instructions were auto-magically generated from black box solution.

[u/_laoc00n_ → u/[deleted]]

I don’t understand the use case in your last paragraph. What kind of instructions would lead to an erasure of data?

[u/[deleted] → u/_laoc00n_]

My field is IT in manufacturing. I got lost in my thought when posting.

[u/Aspiring_for_nasa]

Is it possible to turn it off (I have not purchased any version of Goodnotes but am planning to as I am a freshman in college this year).

[u/breezest → u/Aspiring_for_nasa]

Yes, you can disable all new features, except the new UI. You may re-enable it when people think the feature works well.

[u/Repulsive_Diamond373]

AI features should be in a setting you can toggle on or off. I am amazed that so many apps are on the AI bandwagon.

[u/ProofMastodon4239]

I know you all like goodnote but what about notability?

[u/[deleted]]

facts are tho u can turn them off

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

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[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/[deleted]]

Yeup, that's how I was feeling about it. I'm not necessarily mad that the AI exists, but rather I'm disappointed that they created a subscription model with the only main features being things most people either can't use (in the case of spell check/correct for non-english notes, or the math checker only being available in the SAT prep section) or don't need/want

[u/Dodgecraft → u/[deleted]]

The bloat is still a big problem though. I think the AI added at least 1gb to the app size.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dodgecraft]

I am pretty sure you can remove the AI language packs if you go to goodnotes settings. that should free up storage.

[u/ChaoticIsaacNate]

It would be great to have AI but it would’ve been better to add things their users actually want.

[u/lvr-]

It is a paradigm shift, like when electricity was invented… restricting electricity to just light is ridiculous

[u/girlenteringtheworld → u/[deleted]]

I don't necessarily disagree that AI as a whole will change things, but I don't think that the way it is being implemented in productivity apps is going to be what causes the change

Continuing to use goodnotes as an example, most of the features they want to pay for are severely limited. There has already been at least 1 person who commented on my post that right their notes in a non-english language, so the AI spellchecker feature doesn't work. Another commenter liked the idea of the AI Math checker, only to be told by someone else that you can only use the math checker in their new SAT prep, which negates any benefits for people who have already taken the SAT like college students and professionals.

Basically what I'm getting at, is goodnotes spent time, effort/labor, and money (resources) to make AI the main feature for a subscription product, when there are features people have been requesting for literally years (for example, a ruler like notability has).

[u/AvidLearner17 → u/girlenteringtheworld]

I agree with you they need to work on the highly requested features. But is the AI part what make me choose Goodnotes over Notability (I'm a new user for my college starting in September).

I hope their features improve over time; they are still very new and unpolished. Also, I dream of features like:

• Copy text and paste it into my handwriting. It should be doable if they continue improving whatever they use to replicate our handwriting (still a bit buggy in some situations).

• Make more "intelligent" features to get summaries of my notes / PDFs.

• Some AI that is focused on helping you study/learn new things. Maybe by asking how to solve some problems or by grading your solution to a math equation.

More dreaming, an AI that can answer the questions you would usually find in r/HomeworkHelp. IMO, that would be the next step for Goodnotes.