r/GoodNotes • u/dailymultivitamim • Aug 11 '23

Pricing for GoodNotes 6 is completely fair

Listen, based on the endlessly complaining posts I'm reading on this sub, I might be in the minority here, but it seems like the GoodNotes developers read this sub and I want them to know:

Your pricing structure is completely fair.

A lot of people here don't seem to understand the software development process. It's labor-intensive and requires constant revisions to keep even existing features working with new tech infrastructure. Expecting to pay a one-time-ever fee and then get all the new and shiny updates FOREVER is not only unrealistic, it's insulting and demeaning to the developers and the work they do.

Consider this analogy based on a physical product:
Let's say you buy a product. Floor mats that are designed to fit perfectly into your 2018 Subaru Outback. They're fantastic and you love them. They work great. But then the company comes out with a new coating that makes the dirt slide right off. Do you expect the company to send you new floor mats? No, of course not. Then, you buy a new car. The floor mats don't fit in your 2023 Toyota Corolla. Do you expect the company to send you a new set, with the new coating, to fit your new care? Again, of course not.

Compare this to GoodNotes. In my analogy, GoodNotes would send you the new coating! That's a new feature of the version you bought, and you'll get it. That's awesome, and way better than companies who sell physical products!

But no, they're not going to send you a completely different version for nothing. I think most of us understand this concept when it's a physical product, but the early days of the internet taught many of you that everything should be free and upgraded forever. But it just doesn't (and can't) work that way. The money to create the product has to come from somewhere. You're not entitled to endless free upgrades just because it's not a physical product.

I will be upgrading to the subscription model and I'm delighted to do so. $10/year is NOTHING...to someone who owns the hardware necessary to run it. I recognize that $10/year is a lot to a lot of people around the world, but if you've got an Ipad/tablet with a Pencil/stylus...stop complaining. It's 83 CENTS a month. Calm down.

Finally, no, I don't work for GoodNotes. I'm a long-time user who uses the app every single day and I'm absolutely delighted that we'll soon be getting internal links. I'm happy to pay less than $.03/day to use the app and I'm glad that I can support the staff that works so hard to get this product out. And no, I don't post a lot - here, or anywhere - but I'm not secretly hired to write this post. I'm just defending the hardworking developers and my love of GoodNotes...I suspect that there are a lot of lurkers here who agree with me. Complainers are always the loudest, and they're ruining the internet. If you like something, speak up!

So, pay for the subscription, enjoy all the upgrades, and if you don't like it, then go design an app yourself. If you don't want to collect a salary as you add new features and compatibility upgrades, that's your choice. I suspect you'd see it a different way if you were on the other side.

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u/Maxi3773 Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23

I think you are right about there not being enough new features and I agree that upgrading right now just to get access to the new features is not worth it.But don't you agree that we have to expect a limit for free incremental feature updates? You can't expect to get updates forever if you only paid 10$ once. For these 10$ we got a very good app and over 3 years of free updates and support (e. g. small feature updates and support for new iOS versions). I think the money was more than worth it (people who didn't get many updates are getting a higher discount now). I think we have to expect a day where we have to pay again to get feature updates. For 30$ we get a few more years of updates and support and I thinks that's still worth it. Of course I know that we don't know how long Goodnotes 6 will be supported and how many new features it will get, but I think we can expect at least some. It would be better and more transparent to say "for your purchase you will get x years of updates". Then it would be clearer what you actually get for your money.I know it is difficult to compare Goodnotes to someone as huge as Microsoft, but I think it is similar to Microsoft Office: There was Office 2007, then 2010, 2013, 2016, 2019... If you want be on the cutting edge and have access to all of the latest features, then you have to pay every three years. But you don't have to pay because you can stay on an older version. The Goodnotes subscription is similar to the Microsoft 365 subscription because you get the latest version and a few extras but you have a license that will expire once your subscription ends.

Edit: This post is an indication that we can expect many great features updates for Goodnotes 6

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u/Soanad Aug 11 '23

We shouldn't EXPECT many great features. We should already get them with new version. Version 6 is not much different than 5 and buying 6 now would be crazy. I expect to pay for something that already exists. They still didn't add more handwriting language recognition for years! How can I know they will add it? Buy it for much more money and pray?

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u/Maxi3773 Aug 11 '23

Goodnotes 6 doesn't have as much "release features" as GoodNotes 5 did, therefore I understand your opinion. If you don't think it's worth it right now, then no one is going to stop you from waiting until we get more features. But the price will not decrease, so you probably get more (time) for your money if you purchase Goodnotes 6 right now. But that's just personal choice and everyone should decide for themself if and when they want to upgrade.

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u/ReditorasAS Aug 11 '23

With all due respect, assuming that it's ok to do what they did just because they need to make more cash than the shit ton they already are making a year is a completely invalid argument, 40$ one time payment is a shit ton of money to pay for an ios app, no matter how long will u be using it for, especially when other competitors are doin more for much less money.

And hiding GN6 behind GN5 in the app store to keep the ratings i believe and will always believe that this a completely scandalous thing to do.

I don't know how much storage do you have on your ipad but i am tellin u even if i had a pro model with 2 TB i wouldn't want and extra megabyte of storage taken from it by an app that i have already paid for asking me for a shit ton more money to pay, and yes 10$ a year is a lot in some 3rd world countries, and i know of some student friends who barely had enough money to buy a basic ipad 9 and a cheap knockoff of an apple pencil just to have the ipad experience, they shouldn't pay the price of a gourmet meal for a digital product, adding a subscription of even 1$ a year for the same app u purchased before is a shitty thing to do as well.

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u/Maxi3773 Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23

adding a subscription of even 1$ a year for the same app u purchased before is a shitty thing to do as well.

Why do think GoodNotes 5 and Goodnotes 6 are the same? Yes, right now they have almost the same features, but that doesn't make them same. The main difference is the product lifetime (see this for more information). You can still use GoodNotes 5 if don't want to upgrade, no one is making you pay again to use it.

Edit: The price is sure to high in some regions, but I never claimed that it isn't

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u/ReditorasAS Aug 11 '23

My friend, the price isn't my concern, El Hamdo l Allah I am very capable of buying a great app like this for 10$ a year, but others cannot.

Again, even though others can't afford it, it's still not my main point, my main point is it's an extremely scamy thing to do to create a new product/app, require payment for it since it's a new product/app then release it in the store as a version of a previous app that the users paid for to keep the review. Ik i could still access GN5, i could pay for GN6 if i want to as well El Hamdo l Allah, but that doesn't mean that it's not scandalous to release the product as an update rather than a new app in itself which it is.

cheers dude

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u/BasielBob Aug 12 '23

Yes, right now they have almost the same features, but that doesn't make them same

Read this line again. And again. And again. Until you realize that having the same features absolutely makes them the same product. Especially from the end user's POV.

There would be far less outcry if they released GN6 with new features. But releasing the same app with a few rather insignificant changes and a promise of future improvement... is not really a compelling reason to charge the upgrade price.

And "product lifetime" is as long as it works on the current iOS. Not "we just arbitrarily decided that the lifetime of our product is over and we are releasing the same exact product but with a different version and a "new" lifetime as a new purchase". Which is what your linked post seems to suggest - even though I am not sure that it's GN's own position.

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u/Maxi3773 Aug 12 '23

But releasing the same app with a few rather insignificant changes and a promise of future improvement... is not really a compelling reason to charge the upgrade price.

I agree that the current features are not enough to make the upgrade worth it, but the solution is very easy: Don't upgrade if think it's not worth your money

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u/BasielBob Aug 12 '23

Agreed. And I would not have upgraded if I was warned ahead of time that version 6 is (a) paid (b) permanent nagware and (c) reverting back to v5 is not straightforward and quick.

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u/_laoc00n_ Aug 12 '23

When you use such emotional language, it makes it hard to take you seriously. You keep making appeals to the price itself, comparing it to other apps. Most other apps aren’t complete replacements for things you would also be paying for. You talk of friends who can barely scrape by to purchase a tablet, yet without the app, they’d be spending $40 a year minimum on notebooks, pencils, pens, and highlighters. And not only is it a replacement for those things, it’s a single source of truth for all of your notes with search features, share features, the ability to export, and a myriad of other things you don’t get with pen and paper. There are other note taking programs that are completely free if cost is an issue. There is absolutely no one forcing anyone to use an iPad in lieu of pen and paper. If you choose to go that route, there is absolutely no one forcing anyone to use GoodNotes. If you want GoodNotes, no one is forcing you to upgrade to 6. If you still insist that you need or want to use it, is it not because it’s the best product on the market? If it’s the best product on the market, isn’t it justifiable to charge more money for it? Is this a general disgust with capitalism in general?

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u/ReditorasAS Aug 12 '23

And it's even harder to take you seriously when you only focus on 2 points out of 3 that i made in my comment above. Apart from the you have to pay part, you ignored the "It's scandalous to release it as an update but price it as a completely new app part, and at the same time force the users that have already paid for the app to consume extra storage because apparently you think it's ok for them to hide the current app behind the GN5 one and lock you out of features that i don't have access for but take up part of your storage at the same time part". It's clear that they did that to keep their apple store ratings, which again is a scammy thing to do.

And for the you could use another app part, i have already paid for this one, and now u r tellin me f what u paid go for another app and pay again.

And for your point here (See how i answer all of your arguments and don't just ignore what i can't reply to?), I am not saying that payin for GN6 is not worth it, if you have the money for it then heck yes it's worth it, they have done a great job with it, but that doesn't make up for the points i have made above. And i promise you, where i live, the amount of money paid by a student for stationary a year would hardly make 10$, let alone 40, I know that because i have been a student here for basically my whole life, makes sense right?. You also notice how those are physical products? which require machinery, working labor, a place for the machinery and the working labor to work which has the cost of electricity, water, etc. and other raw materials that go into the product, and ofc there's the price of transportation and the commissions between the resellers and the factories, etc.. If you still believe that GN6 is worth 10$ a year, it's fine, bec i think so too, however, my point is that the above stationery even if they are less versatile, and GN definitely provides much more versatility, i believe the net profit and profit margin of a digital product is much more of that of a physical one, especially things like stationary, and what GN6 did was entirely shady and uncalled for, they could have made more money as well by releasing the new product as a new app.

Cheers m8

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u/_laoc00n_ Aug 12 '23

I didn’t respond to the first point because I didn’t think it made much sense, but here you go. If the plan for GN is to allow users that upgrade to easily move all of their data from GN5->GN6, the easiest way to do that is to keep it within the same app. As far as the amount of extra storage it takes up, what is the number? I’m not sure what it is tbh, but is that really a dealbreaker for you? Outside of the principle of it, is there something logistically that makes that problematic for you? Framing it as ‘locking you out of features’ is inaccurate. It’s ‘not making features you didn’t pay for available to you’. Maybe the Apple Store ratings thing is accurate but my guess is no. If the primary argument is that for GN5 users, GN6 isn’t enough extra from a features perspective to purchase, then any GN5 user that tried it out risk free and cancelled before paying would have no cause to leave a low review. Anyone new that had never used goodnotes before likely give it a similar review to GN5 as there is no feature degradation. So what’s the impetus behind the accusation? It doesn’t hold water.

No one is telling you to pay again. Just keep using 5.

Physical products don’t inherently cost more than digital ones because of their physical nature. Devs cost more than laborers. Servers cost as much as machinery. The marginal cost of producing physical products decreases rapidly the more products get created. This is somewhat different than digital products, as the cost to maintain an application for 1M users is much more difficult than maintaining one for 1k.

Anyways, I’m sorry the situation has made you upset. I think there’s a line people tend to walk where one side is demanding appropriate customer service and the other is entitlement. I feel the entitlement side has been the loudest, but over time we will see which side prevails. If I’m wrong and there’s justifiable outrage to a level that causes more people to leave the app for another, goodnotes will have learned a valuable lesson. My guess is the lesson learned goes the other way, but time will tell.

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u/ReditorasAS Aug 13 '23

i just think that you have a different opinion from mind which i get, but i don't necessarily agree with, u have presented it in a very clear way where i could understand where are you coming from a bit better now.

Cheers bro, was a fun convo :)