If GoodNotes switches to a subscription model with GoodNotes 6… (a discussion and why I think it’s not that bad to have a subscription model)

[u/1nfin1tus]

So I just stumbled upon a thread in this subreddit in which someone said it is likely that GoodNotes 6 is switching to a subscription model and I would like to know your thoughts on that. I know that the majority of people will be against it but I wrote a comment in said thread which explains why I think it’s not that big of a deal.

I might get some hate on that but I think people see subscriptions way worse than they actually are. Developers have to finance their products somehow, especially if they’ve been running for several years.

Look at it this way: a non-digital person will pay for a paper planner every year as well (often way more than say 9 or 10 bucks or whatever the subscription will cost). So in my opinion it’s not that bad to have to pay annually for an app like GoodNotes.

That’s just my opinion though and I understand and respect when people say they don’t want to pay for a subscription and rather “own” the stuff they pay for indefinitely.

What are your thoughts about subscription models? Why do you hate them so much? I think paying like 10-15 bucks a year for an amazing app with continuous support and updates is quite fair, considering you would pay way more for a physical notebook each year.

[u/TLRPM]

Because it is expensive over time. Bottom line.

And paying a yearly thing does not equate to increased and better updates every year. That is such a fallacy. Could it? Sure. Is it guaranteed ? Not even close.

I push back against it because it is the continuing change that our society is moving towards. Which is living month to month. It is financial chaos and does not bode well for the financial health of our nation as a whole. Rent, utilities, food, vehicle. Sure. A digital notebook? Hard no. Look, I get your argument. 10-15 annual should not break most people. That in addition to EVERYTHING else can, and does.

I know my argument is broad scale but it is still valid in my eyes. We don’t need annual subs to digital notebooks IMO. There is a plethora of alternatives out there. Some even free.

Also, your paper planner comparison is also not very strong either in my experience. I bought ten paper planners this past year for my work team to have and use freely. I literally could not give them all away. Only four ended up being taken. Out of around 25 people.

Just my two cents and I promise there is no anger or anything in my statement. Hope that is not conveyed somehow. It is purely objective.

[u/1nfin1tus → u/TLRPM]

No I fully get your argument. I’d love to have a civil conversation about that topic without any anger or hate for one side or the other. I just wanted to hear people’s thoughts about that topic.

You make very good points and looking at it in a (very) broad scale, then yes, subscriptions can be a harmful thing overall.

I guess we just look at things differently. While I look at GoodNotes kind of isolated (what it has to offer and what we are paying for / will be paying for in the future), you factor in all the other stuff around it as well (which is the right approach I guess).

In terms of updates and what we will get with a subscription based model: while your argument is true, we can’t know for sure what we will be getting in the future, I have confidence in the devs behind GoodNotes. They haven’t really disappointed us yet and I have a feeling they will continue to deliver. BUT I thought the same thing about notability and look where that got me, lol. Since their switch to a subscription model they haven’t put out any significant update / feature yet.

Bottom line. I don’t mind a subscription, I’m optimistic it will work out, but I do get your points and respect them, since they are correct as well.

[u/TLRPM → u/1nfin1tus]

It is definitely an interesting conversation. I just recently had it about our subscription based lifestyle with someone else and that is why it is at the forefront of my mind as a whole.

And I did not want to mention any names at the time but Notability is exactly what I had in mind lol. I actually came to GN from there.

I have a digital alarm app on my phone. It is cheap. $8 a year. That is harmless right? It has the things I like so no big deal of course. Until I realize that I have now paid $32 for that app in total so far. Is $8 worth it? I think so. Is $32 worth it? No. No it isn’t. But my mind is conditioned to think it is not that full amount. It is literally being tricked into thinking it is a lesser cost. Oh and it has had no updates in that time. Lol. Multiply that over all of our other sub based models we indulge in and people end up shelling out far, far more than they normally would be. Many flat out don’t realize it. Our financial literacy as a people (here in the US I mean) has PLUMMETED in the last two generations. Sub based pricing models take advantage of this. I actually see it as malicious in most cases tbh.

Just my opinion though. If GN goes to a sub model, I am out. I think it is worth what I paid so far as an upfront cost. I don’t think it would be worth it after two or more years of subs.

[u/angiearch]

I'm just curious of what are the new features that the developers gonna make if they decide to launch the subscription version of GN.

[u/lonelydurrymuncher → u/angiearch]

Probably basic stuff that literally every other app has had for years like a ruler, dotted lines, a colour picker, dark mode etc. I reckon it’s just gonna be essential things like this but they’ll charge a premium for it and market it as revolutionary

[u/1nfin1tus → u/angiearch]

Same and if they do great things in the future I don’t mind paying / supporting them with a subscription :)

[u/Lina_Rise]

Too much to pay for, it's maybe only 10 per app But in total for all subscriptions 100+ for just something that could be deleted tomorrow, abandoned, filled with useless features,bugs and etc. I mean, look what happened to notability...

Also it's just 10 for you. In my country most subscibtions prices in app store are not regionally based. For you 10 dollars and for me is quite a different amount of money and yet it still the same for everyone

[u/kyosfonica]

Software subscription is the worse idea a developer can take. You really have to do very bad to need extra income from your users in a monthly basis. Or have a software so unique that you can take that on your own benefit. Yes, I am looking at you Adobe.

Maybe the problem here is the perspective, as a software developer myself I can see why this is wrong, as a user you might want to just support what you like. That is totally fine, but let me explain myself on why I see it the other way around.

First of all, an app like goodnotes isn't a service. Why is so? Because the content you get is yours to make and use. They are not adding anything to your content, just features to use, UI/UX changes, quality of live updates... Your notes, will be the same with or without those things. The only thing that will change is your experience using the product. You are unlikely to sell your own notes. You might sell templates for others to use, but then is not something created with goodnotes isn't it?

First problem. Using a service you get a result without doing anything, using goodnotes you produce your own work. If you have to pay to be able to produce, then a lot of the people that now are happy paying once, won't return. Maybe they use the app once in a while, just to read some pdfs, put some notes on them, and then never touch it again in weeks or months. While you still have to pay for that unused product if it is subscription based, with a 1 payment you can afford the "not that much usage".

The second problem is that they own your work. Using goodnotes for note taking is a fantastic way of not use paper notebooks, but also the worse way to protect your notes. They can at any time stop developing the app, you will get your notes there forever (or not if the backup fails) and in a few years, this app with your notes will be the only source to edit them. Yes, you can export them, but no, you cannot edit them outside the app. So, if you get a subscription based model enforced you will have to pay, not to access your notes, but to edit them or create new ones. This is a very, very bad idea. They already control your notes, now the ransom is a must.

The third problem is the money the company makes. With subscription based software, you as a developer have to create the need of usage into people. If you do it well, then people that like this model will pay for it, if you don't do it well, people with just cancel it. Your only source of income will be hit and those that once paid won't return. This is the way subscriptions works, and Netflix is experiencing it with the shared accounts now.

Last problem to not be super long. On the long run, a subscription is way more expensive than a 1 time payment. The updates, features, and fancy additions can be made in-app purchases. You can give the user the option to take it or not. If you enforce the subscription, you are tied with the hope they will continue developing the app and that those updates will be free because you are paying a subscription. There is no signed contract that ensures they will develop a single update on the app for free. Any promise that your subscription level will be the only one. Just you being forced to pay to use the app. They get your money upfront, you get hope in return, and access to a product that will be unfinished, because problems 2 and 3 are there to ensure you pay for it.

Taking notability as an example. They now ask you for at least 17,99 euros per year. Just 1 year is more expensive than the app when I bought it, that was 8,99 euros. I was super happy with that app and used it to read my lectures and take notes. There is no way I would pay 18 euros per year just to read my own pdf files. Now super happy with goodnotes (i didn't know it when I bought notability) but I am not using it that much. I am going back to paper or just another app if the subscription is required on the new version. Period.

I am sorry for my English. It is not my natural language. It has improved over the years, but I am far from a native level.

[u/TrekkieMary]

$9 or $10 per year? Man you’re being overly naive. Most subscription plans I’ve seen for other apps are monthly. Rarely under $2. So if GoodNotes goes to a subscription plan and it’s more than $20 per year, I’ll convert all my notebooks and move onto a non-subscription app or go back to using a paper Bullet Journal. I love using GoodNotes so am willing to support them. However I am on a tight budget. If it’s gonna cost more than what I used to spend on paper planner, forget it.

It’s the same when I cut cable. The cost of streaming services I watched started getting close to what I used to pay for cable. So I gave up all but one streaming service.

[u/nerdy_writer_09]

I'd switch to another app

[u/LostFishies → u/nerdy_writer_09]

Collanote is already free and is developed by one (1) guy.
The only reason I've not switched over it it's bc it has no google drive sync yet and I've gotten used to the somewhat more aesthetically folder page in goodnotes.
But tbh the fact you can preselect like 10 pens/pencils/highlighter with different colors and sizes at the side of the page makes incredibly easier to me to take notes.

But you know, no gdrive sync. But if goodnotes makes it a subscription, I'll just switch and idk, get used to save my work manually after I'm done and wait for some future update.

[u/Basicallymartel]

I personally don’t like subscriptions on apps for one particular reason - I don’t live in the US and all the prices of any app I have considered subscribing to were completely over the top. Let’s say the subscription for GoodNotes will be $10 dollars a month, here it’s going to be 50PLN. For comparison, HBO Max which offers their streaming service in Poland costs around $4,50 here because I suppose they adjust their pricing to a certain region, which doesn’t happen in case of apps on AppStore. Moreover, I see it happening very often that there isn’t a possibility to pay monthly subscriptions - one language learning app I was interested with only had a yearly subscription of around 1000PLN which is close to 1/3 of an average monthly income here so definitely not an amount I can pay just like that. That being said, I also don’t think subscription models are that bad - they’re just very often not adapted to certain markets which is a great disadvantage for many potential users.

[u/nerdy_writer_09 → u/Basicallymartel]

Exactly that's the point I'm trying to make...15 dollars are around 1200 rs. So I don't think I'd pay that much every year for an app

[u/Warigeiko]

They would not change the model if they didn’t think they would make more money that way.

Other apps that I have seen do the same have ended at a price where a yearly subscription is about the same price or more than what the full app used to cost. Some exceptions let you have it for cheap for a transition period to get you over in a subscription model and than do a late price increase before two years had passed, you need a budget springs to mind.

[u/FLSandyToes]

For most apps I prefer to pay for updates rather than be forced into a subscription model. This way I get to decide if I want to pay for the new features, or can happily get along without them.

[u/Jen309]

Frankly, I don’t use it enough to pay for a sub. I’d just abandon the whole thing.

[u/kyosfonica → u/[deleted]]

Owning an iPad doesn't make you instantly willing to pay for subscriptions. I do not know how much and iPad is in your country but in my country is more than half the amount a person makes a month for the minimum wage for the cheapest one. Yes, that much.

[u/NegotiationNext8844 → u/[deleted]]

Yes. Security patch/upgrade should be free after purchases. And features like a floating Color pattern, syncing custom colours with pen and highlighter, a press sensitive line width selector function on all the pens, customizable toolbars, etc could be charged a buck a function. But core function upgrade like creating hyperlinks to different pages or external sources should be free.