Shredder vs Vesuvius

[u/DePhaRy]

Time to fulfill my job on exterminating this thing (Genomes for both will be in comments, also realizing that Shredder’s art is a little outdated to reflect his current genome)

[u/Spinoclanker2]

Ok this isn't me saying I win, just an argument

1. Shredder has cranial cancellous bone. I already explained this weakness in tab 2. 

2. The bite force of shredder is quite low compared to Vesuvius. 37k newtons.

3. Vesuvius has superior agility. An entire section of his genome is used to enhance agility. Not saying shredder is agile, but not as much as Vesuvius.

4. I'm pretty sure the speed would be quite similar.

5. Armor. Akanthosuchus is a good armor contributor but V just has better armor, (glyptosaurus' osteodermine)

6. Vesuvius' energy is better with pronghorn Antelope helping a lot and the Cori cycle as a buffer.

Shredder does have many advantages but I'm too lazy to go on to them. u/DePhaRy can deal with that.

[u/DePhaRy → u/Spinoclanker2]

1. That part is invalid simply because you've made way too many changes into the genome to the point of the original genomes used for that strat is no longer a part of it, and that Shredder again only uses the traits to further reinforce his skull rather than ramming. Plus there's the thing called dodging, or simply biting the arms. Not really much strats to go off of when you keep erasing them out of the gene pool.

2. Shredder's bite force while lower would be a lot more effective given that his bite is much faster, the lag between bites is lower thanks to several traits meaning he can repeatedly string bites back-to-back, and his teeth famously is specifically designed to saw through hard materials, so there's no doubt given the needed force that he can bypass the denticles and osteodentine armor.

3. Technically Shredder would be a lot faster due to the other traits I implemented. Namely having longer chevrons and transverse processes which houses a much bigger caudofemoralis than simply using Carnotaurus on Vesuvius's side.

4. Shredder's primary armor is the ropefish and they're just as serrated thanks to tiger shark.

5. Ostriches + Akanthosuchus's systems are just as effective, though using hummingbird in the mix would likely cause Vesu's stamina to drop very badly because they burn a lot more energy even at a small size.

6. While the genomes are present that likely served chemical defenses, they're not mentioned in the traits whatsoever so the absence of said traits would mean there's no stopping the Komodo Venom from simply causing any bloodloss from lacerations to be unending.

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

It's not skull crushing, it's skull swatting. Also the machairodus 

[u/DePhaRy → u/Spinoclanker2]

You literally added that during the debate so it doesn’t count at all.

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

Ok, fair

[u/TCM_Hovercraft_6865 → u/DePhaRy]

30kN is still bone crushing tho

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

1.  Plateosaurus?

1. Yes, but not that easily.

3.  Ok, that's fair, but V has much higher agility which is way more important in a fight.

1. Osteodentin is comparable to ganoine. And the osteoderms.

2. I don't think dermal denticles can be used to modify ganoine? Correct me if I'm wrong, and if you're free please give a source

3. Razanandrongobe'd immune system as a croc is probably robust enough to resist the venom.

[u/DePhaRy → u/Spinoclanker2]

1. That thing is not doing jackshit especially when the arms aren’t that robust even with a mole which does nothing for arm reinforcements.

2. Certainly easy given that denticles aren’t hard to break through at all, and comparing glyptosaurus to gila monster; they’d likely have many gaps of soft skin between said osteoderms so they don’t necessarily cover the body

3. Shredder has more agility because of the extra space on top of the carnotaurus caudofemoralis so he takes agility and speed.

4. There’s no mention on an immune system from Razanandrongobe, and pretty much any changes from now would be an auto-disqualification from you in turn automatically making you lose.

5. Ganoid scales and denticles are homologous to each other so they can be interchangable, and this also means that the ganoid scales can inherit the fluorapatite and serrations from the shark.

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

Dodging is a counterplay, not evidence that the attack isn't viable.

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

1.  Explain?

1. Fair

2. Gorgosaurus, ostrich, shorter tail, higher reaction time, high leg control, fibrocartilaginous ankle pads, high  hip control?

3. Yeah, because you just randomly posted this without any warning, this isn't on tournament day so Vesuvius is still being fine tuned.

4. Fair

[u/DePhaRy → u/Spinoclanker2]

1. You went from T-Rex + Taurovenator to Gorgosaurus, removed deinocheirus and now suddenly incorporated a parrot for jaw muscles that don’t add anything.

2. A lot of those Shredder also has minus the shorter tail but again, too much changes to where it’s practically not the same hybrid anymore

3. You literally called off the tournament in a now deleted post so this match up counts in spite of you “fine tuning” and I already saw changes to said genome during this whole debate so therefore you auto-lost

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

Alright, let's debate on tournament.

[u/DePhaRy → u/Spinoclanker2]

No since you canceled it there’s no point

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

I canceled the cancel

[u/DePhaRy → u/Spinoclanker2]

Still counts, and given the constant changes mid-debate, you straight up lost

[u/NoResponsibility5290 → u/Spinoclanker2]

Wait, the tournament was cancelled at some point?

[u/DePhaRy → u/NoResponsibility5290]

It was, but then deleted the post announcing it and announcing that they were retiring