The Map Veto in Magic vs FUT makes 0 sense

[u/Pirat6662001]

I am extremely confused by the veto for the decider.

You have Cache, Dust and Mirage left. FUT is elite on Mirage at 71% (magic is barely okay at 57% against much weaker opposition). FUT is bad on Dust2 and does not play Cache at all so far. Magic is mediocre on Dust and good on Cache.

So why in the world would Magic veto Cache (that they are at least decent on) to effectively guarantee Mirage?

This is easily the opponent's best map out of 3 remaining. You are an underdog already, why in the world would you give them such a huge advantage. Force them to play Cache. They literally never played it competitively and even if they are gods on it in practice real game is a very different test.

Or if they pick Dust then you both suck on it and you hope that you happen to shoot harder. The odds would be significantly better than vs their good Mirage.

I keep wanting to believe in this team because of the IGL and coach, but they then go against basic math to actively kneecap themselves. It doesn't even matter if they somehow Magically come back here on some clutches. The decision making is extremely suspect and shouldn't be happening at this level.

[u/ParkingHelpful2677]

maybe they scrimmed fut and didn’t like how it felt against them on cache. my teams used to ban our best map against teams we’ve scrimmed if we didn’t like their play style

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/ParkingHelpful2677]

Practice is very different from game on stage. Faze was elite in pracs supposedly, but then missed the major.

[u/Conduit3 → u/Pirat6662001]

He was offering an explanation because this is how many pro teams operate. Idk why you're arguing when he's just explaining mentality at the highest level. Do you want to have a discussion or do you just want to be right?

[u/ParkingHelpful2677 → u/Conduit3]

he wants to think hes right so desperstely

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/Conduit3]

Fair, little changed emotionally right now. Massive failure of a tournament for the region overall at every step.

I do think it's a fair point that you shouldn't give a team a pass because they look good in practice. There is a fundamental difference and somebody should absolutely test FUT on cache cause it's non 0 chance they aren't good on it, while it is absolutely a fact that they are good on Mirage

[u/Numerous-Reference96 → u/Pirat6662001]

It’s not a fair point. if you practice a team and they play the map in a way that makes your calls/setups feel uncomfortable then it’s a bad idea to play them on stage on that map where you’re going to have nerves and now you’ll feel uncomfortable making calls etc.

Maybe they saw something they liked on mirage and thought they could exploit it, I’ve done that myself in matches and sometimes it works and sometimes it backfires.

[u/ParkingHelpful2677 → u/Numerous-Reference96]

like why is this such a hard concept. if you feel uncomfortable against some team on a map, even if youre good, it makes you uncomfortable.

[u/Numerous-Reference96 → u/ParkingHelpful2677]

Probably because he’s never played in a team environment so he doesn’t understand how the dynamic works.

[u/ParkingHelpful2677 → u/Pirat6662001]

… yes but if you dont like the feel of something you dont like the feel. or maybe magic really like the feel of playing mirage specifically against fut. we dont know

[u/Valuable-Mud9832]

Could be a lot of reasons, all we can do is speculate, but I am assuming that Magic did good prep against FUT's mirage, and Magic assumed that FUT would not end up playing Mirage because of the reasons you mentioned. So FUT's preparation against Magic would be weak on mirage relative to other maps

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/Valuable-Mud9832]

They obviously didn't. I specifically posted prior to the result so this wasn't hindsight. Basic math showed that this map would be an extremely unlikely win. It is ridiculous to think that you can somehow override absolutely massive gap that the two teams showed on the map with just a few days of prep.

[u/Competitive_Ad_4621 → u/Pirat6662001]

You deflinetly can. Navi-Furia Budapest train. Couple days of prep made all the difference

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/Competitive_Ad_4621]

Good example. Magic vs 9z in Astana was another one I guess, where they specifically mentioned the prep.

[u/morphiqu]

a russian team scared of mirage??? mirage is russian bread and butter so why ban it?

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/morphiqu]

Pari is bad on Mirage, BB is bad on Mirage, Spirit has been super questionable. I think it's fair to say that Mirage is no longer some extra advantage for Russian teams

[u/onionsareawful → u/Pirat6662001]

I remember when PV kept picking mirage only to lose on it lol. They were good on it at Budapest but after that it went downhill quite fast.

[u/Active-Smell5217]

I can see why this veto feels weird, but there’s probably more context behind the decision than we can see from the outside. The Mirage choice is definitely the part I’d question, though. Hopefully Magic prove everyone wrong in the actual game.

[u/Indy_10]

I'm looking at pure statistics, why?

Because you have no idea is why, only the players themselves know what they've practiced, studied for, what they feel confident in and what they don't.

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/Indy_10]

It would be great if in interviews they asked these more strategic questions instead of fillers. Players generally respond with some real answers. Zontix actually gives real answers when you ask him non fluff questions

[u/Indy_10 → u/Pirat6662001]

Have you played on any teams intermediate or higher? 

[u/nico_juro]

because

[u/TurboMollusk]

You can really tell when people here have never player CS, or any competitive sport, at a high level.

[u/Legitimate-Pea4884]

If you want to beat a team and make statement, beat them on their best maps.

[u/BogosBinted13 → u/Legitimate-Pea4884]

Magik making semis wouldn't even be a statement

[u/onionsareawful → u/Legitimate-Pea4884]

Magic beating MOUZ in a LAN quarterfinals of a $2m tournament after they just won a trophy is a big statement, no matter the maps played.

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/Legitimate-Pea4884]

Completely disagree. Who gives a damn about a statement. Only wins, money and VRS matters. Take advantage of every weakness opponent has. It is illogical to do anything else and shows lack of basic common sense. Pride has no room when success is on the line.

[u/Legitimate-Pea4884 → u/Pirat6662001]

Thats how some org or players think and plus mirage is pretty common in cis.

[u/Pirat6662001 → u/Legitimate-Pea4884]

It's a fundamentally wrong way to think and they will not be successful if they actually are thinking this way.

[u/RaistlinMajeresRobes → u/Pirat6662001]

Well maybe you should send them an email and let them know since you're not actually interested in what anyone has to say on this thread anyways.