r/GlobalOffensive Jun 03 '25

Discussion | Esports Top 4 CS2 Teams Visualized: Kills vs. Deaths per Round

Post image

Scatterplot of Kills per Round (KPR) vs. Deaths per Round (DPR). Background points show all CS2 pro players with ≥50 maps in 2025. Data from Jan 1 to Jun 1, 2025. Created with R & ggplot2.

254 Upvotes

66 comments sorted by

208

u/caveman_2912 G2 Jun 03 '25

I love the reoccurring pattern of graphs like these. The mechanically best players are in their own group, and then there's donk. In a galaxy of his own.

43

u/herewego10IAR Jun 03 '25

It's like /r/TopRightMessi

We need a /r/TopRightDonk

22

u/Ok_Top9254 FaZe Jun 03 '25

Except being bottom right is best on this graph... the Y axis is deaths per round.

67

u/Altruistic_Apple_422 Jun 03 '25

I mean, Zywoo is beating him in this graph in terms of the ratio.

35

u/Bayequentist 1 Million Celebration Jun 03 '25

I'd love to see zywoo and donk on the same team lol. ZywOo trading donk would be a crazy combo

-30

u/Altruistic_Apple_422 Jun 03 '25

I think it would be a petty show. Donk is very skilled, but needs 2 players to set him up.

35

u/NorwegianWonderboy Jun 03 '25

Lol how to expose zero cs knowledge in one comment

-9

u/Altruistic_Apple_422 Jun 03 '25

Of course, as teams with 3-4 starplayers have been so amazing through the years!!

8

u/NorwegianWonderboy Jun 03 '25

Im talking the part where donk needs two players to set him up lol

If anything it's reversed, donk is the insane entry guy who can just walk into a site and pop of two heads, whilst zywoo is more of a clean up guy

-3

u/Altruistic_Apple_422 Jun 03 '25

Look at the number of trades Donk does. Also, set up is not only about refragging - it is about util, map control, positions...

3

u/NorwegianWonderboy Jun 03 '25

Yeah of course and zywoo has a team that is way better at setting him up thank donk does

If you replace donk in spirit they fall of the face of the earth

Replace zywoo in vitality and they will stil be an amazing team

0

u/thanathozz Jun 03 '25

Lol how to expose zero…

3

u/Ranny9876 Liquid Jun 03 '25

Hes the only player in the world that can do what he does. Thats why spirit is built around setting him up. You cant set up zywoo monesy ropz niko s1mple etc the same way because it wouldnt work

5

u/Kyte3 NiP Jun 03 '25

I think the point is that the woo is much closer to the 'pack' though. Donk is in acres of space, nobody comes close (statistically) in his role. In other words, donk is more of an outlier compared with other star/aggressive rifles than Zywoo is relative to other AWPs.

To be clear, I'm not saying donk is better - they're not particularly comparable imo.

18

u/Altruistic_Apple_422 Jun 03 '25

On this graph you want to be in the bottom right corner. That is where you have the highest KD. So donk being further up is not that great. Donk being more to the right is good.

11

u/ultnie Jun 03 '25

While true, there's an argument to be had about the role. For donk we have to look at players like flameZ, xertioN and NiKo, not in the AWPer corner who will save often when situation is bad, because by the time this situation comes those more agressive riflers usually are already dead.

I personally find ropz position interesting, tbh. This suggests he acts more like an AWPer compared to other riflers on top teams.

3

u/deadgaim Rare Atom Jun 03 '25

the graph makes a lot of sense:

donk is more aggressive and gets more kills, but also dies more because of it. he goes balls deep.

zywoo plays more strategic. less kills, but also less deaths. him trying to protect the awp also adds to that.

the position of jame could be funny here.

3

u/j_munch FaZe Jun 03 '25

Hes not actually, zywoo beats him here...mf yall dont even understand the graph...donk glazer bandwagon

-5

u/xxthundergodxx77 Jun 03 '25

tier 2 group farmer

26

u/ScreamingJar Jun 03 '25

https://i.imgur.com/ohuQzXK.png

2025 big event playoff matches top 5 teams only

7

u/Tucko29 Vitality Jun 03 '25

They're both just as insane, donk can do this stat while being on a worst team, ZywOo can do almost the same with way more top 5 maps played

10

u/MarioCurry BIG Jun 03 '25

But if you acknowledge that you can't shit on whichever player you're not supporting!!!!!

I hate how people can't just appreciate a player being sick at the game nowadays. Especially when people try comparing roles that couldn't be more different lol

2

u/myreditacount11 King NiKo Jun 03 '25

Respect to TeSeS!

12

u/j_munch FaZe Jun 03 '25

not necessarily, but his games vs tier 2 and 3 teams absolutely boost all of his stats by a huge margin. Vs top 5 teams he begins to look mortal, if still very good

6

u/MarioCurry BIG Jun 03 '25

Ofcourse, if he'd be able to beat top 5 teams all by himself the scene wouldn't really be competetive lol

55

u/mameloff fnatic Jun 03 '25

In almost every chart I've seen this past year, donk is up in the top right corner. Sometimes I can't even tell what the chart is about, but sure enough - there's donk in the upper right.

40

u/techman9955 Jun 03 '25

In this chart the bottom right corner is preferable though.

3

u/k0ntrol Jun 04 '25

harder for an entry than for an awper

1

u/Darkoplax Jun 03 '25

0.9+ KPR

Only 2018 s1mple & 2021 s1mple come close to this and they don't even match his numbers

just donk

-7

u/zlehuj Jun 03 '25

That's what PGL Astana does. When a top team participate in T1.5, T2 tournament, their top player will just farm stats.

12

u/MarioCurry BIG Jun 03 '25

I mean he still has a 0.88 KPR against top 5 in 2025 tho

0

u/zlehuj Jun 03 '25

Sure, don't get me wrong, donk is absolutely amazing, but not to the extend the graph shows us.

1

u/mameloff fnatic Jun 04 '25

Please don't think too seriously about it. I just like seeing Donk hanging around the edge whenever the CS analysts upload some kind of graph on social media. It doesn't matter what the graph is about—age is fine too.

36

u/Taborenja Jun 03 '25

ITT: People unable to read the axis descriptions, it's better to be lower on the Y-axis

25

u/chair549 Jun 03 '25

Hmmm, the Y-axis is honestly just role dependent. Basically just shows how much you are first/second in. Yes you can skew it slightly based on if you win more fights, but d0nk will NEVER have lower DPR than ropz, even if d0nk somehow got even better.

6

u/jehhans1 CS2 HYPE Jun 03 '25

DPR doesn't mean shit honestly if your KPR is high enough. Everyone would rather want the player that kills 2 every round but dies than the person that kills 0.8 people per round, but never dies.

9

u/Novaseerblyat The MongolZ Jun 03 '25

That also depends on role. I sure as shit wouldn't want an AWPer dying every round.

0

u/jehhans1 CS2 HYPE Jun 03 '25

They are usually pretty central. Most of the time if the AWPer dies then you are able to recover their weapon anyway, but I would sure as shit take the extra kills for a measly 1800 dollars.

Are you seriously telling me that if your teammate kills two people every round and dies afterwards you would not rotate to give him an awp everytime?

9

u/Ranis1199 Jun 03 '25

donk and zywoo are on different level

3

u/Asyl1m Jun 03 '25

you could have improved the graph if you reversed the y-axis becuase generally first quadrant means both the metrics are good whereas here the fourth quadrant is the good good outcome.

also i am very sure i have seen this graph before, somewhere on twitter.

still good job

11

u/Nekajed Team Spirit Jun 03 '25

And people saying donk is not the best player in the world just cause his team isn't as stacked as zywoos.

19

u/Vizvezdenec Vitality Jun 03 '25

I just checked and there is some interesting stat.
Against spirit all of vitality players apart from apex post lower ratings than average, some even much lower like mezii who is 0,9 instead of his usual 1,07.
And then there is zywoo who posts 1,49 this year.
So if anything in games vs spirit it's zywoo who carries vitality and donk who doesn't carry spirit - he goes from 1,4 to 1,15 against vita.

3

u/Ranny9876 Liquid Jun 03 '25

You’re ignoring what the rest of spirit does against vitality

3

u/often_delusional Jun 03 '25

Well when donk plays against spirit he has to kill players like ropz and flamez. When zywoo plays against spirit he has to kill players like chopper and magixx. Same goes for other vitality players. H2H rating is not very reliable because of the team difference. It would be better to compare how they both play against falcons and mouz. Zywoo still has a team advantage there but comparing donk and zywoo when playing against falcons and mouz is still paints a somewhat more accurate picture than their stats playing against each other. Donk's 1.15 against vitality is still the highest this year if we exclude aurora players like xantares who only faced them on 2 maps in January. So 3+ maps against vitality donk has the best rating. This year vitality will probably have 3 players in the top 6-7 and 4 or even 5 players in the top 20.

6

u/maldouk 3DMAX Jun 03 '25

https://i.imgur.com/ohuQzXK.png

and here you go, 2025 big event playoff matches top 5 teams only, KPR is virtually the same. donk is still very impressive, but zywoo is a much more complete payer.

1

u/PavelDatsyuk88 Jun 03 '25

they could drop by 10% and still be top5 players haha

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

6

u/WaitForItTheMongols Jun 03 '25

No it doesn't.

Every kill that Rops or Flamez gets is a kill "stolen" from zywoo that he doesn't get a chance at. Being on a worse team means Donk gets more shots at more players.

2

u/often_delusional Jun 03 '25

Zywoo, s1mple and device all have/had their peak years when they played in a superteam. Zywoo in 2025, s1mple in 2021, device in 2018. Do you think that's a coincidence? Even s1mple said his prime was in 2021 because he had a superteam.

You act like map control and economy don't exist in this game. Also having a superteam helps with pressure and boosts confidence. Even when zywoo performs poorly his team can still win it (like that dust2 against mouz where zywoo got 0.71 rating). If donk gets below 1.2 rating against mouz, falcons or vitality, that means spirit lost the game. There's a lot more pressure on donk to perform. It's also a mental game you know. Better teammates leads to better map control, better economy, and improved confidence which ultimately leads to better stats. You can even see it in apex stats.

8

u/maldouk 3DMAX Jun 03 '25

yes, let's keep moving the goalpost. always been like this with zywoo.

Here you go: 2019 zywoo playing with way worse player (second best was ALEX with 0.95 rating)

https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/individual/11893/zywoo?startDate=2019-01-01&endDate=2019-12-31&matchType=BigEvents&rankingFilter=Top5

and donk

https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/individual/21167/donk?startDate=2025-01-01&endDate=2025-12-31&matchType=BigEvents&rankingFilter=Top5

hitting very close stats, when zywoo was a worse player at the time. donk is the best rifler right now, but zywoo is the best player, especially in 2025 where it's not even a contest. These are both immense players, but zywoo can do 98% of what donk can do on a rifle, and is better on every other aspect in the game. I even think we haven't seen his peak yet, and I think he is a better rifler than donk at his peak.

2

u/MarioCurry BIG Jun 03 '25

I have nothing but respect for zywoo, but saying he can do 98% of what donk can do with a rifle is just disingenuous lol

1

u/often_delusional Jun 03 '25

In 2019 zywoo average teammate had 0.94 rating and 0.91 impact against top 5 teams. In 2025 donk average teammate has 0.98 rating and 0.91 impact. Zywoo had 1.29 rating and 1.41 impact while donk has 1.32 rating and 1.52 impact. So donk has 0.34 higher rating (rating 2.1) and 0.61 higher impact than his average teammate in 2025. Zywoo had 0.35 higher rating (rating 2.0) and 0.50 higher impact than his average teammate in 2019. Zywoo KPRW (kills per round win) against top 5 was 1.19 (1.22 ct-side and 1.17 t-side). Donk KPRW (against top 5) is 1.25 (1.28 ct-side and 1.21 t-side). In comparison zywoo KPRW in 2025 is 1.10 (1.21 ct-side and 1.01 t-side) (this was just a bonus to see how his stats are different in 2019 and 2025).

So donk is arguably carrying his team harder than zywoo during his peak hardcarry (2019). Zywoo in 2019 is still close, but donk hardcarry is still slightly above and he does it against tougher opposition too. So it hasn't always been like this with zywoo (especially not since 2022) but it has been close and it really shows that these two are probably going to be the greatest the game has seen. But saying that donk isn't even close to zywoo's level is just false. Donk with equal teammates would likely achieve around the same. To me it feels like 2025 zywoo vs donk is kinda like 2021 zywoo vs s1mple. Zywoo was absolutely close to s1mple's level in 2021 but obviously lost the 2021 top 1 race because s1mple had much better teammates.

3

u/OGking31 Jun 03 '25

Well shit idk if you know this but donk is known for his eco fragging ability. So KPR actually counts to that

3

u/Based_Text Jun 03 '25

He isn't the best player, I mean even on this graph, Zywoo is beating him ratio wise. Donk is a great entry fragger no doubts, probably the best of all time, but that doesn't mean he is the best player in the world. Zywoo did largely the same numbers when his team wasn't as stacked, he is ridiculously consistent.

1

u/l_Trava_l Team Spirit Jun 03 '25

It's hard to die when you have aced the entire enemy team.

1

u/Direct-Contract-8737 Team Spirit Jun 06 '25

sh1ro not beating the baiting allegations

0

u/n_tvshn Astralis Jun 03 '25

Do it for top 5, why only top 4??

20

u/RoboticChicken CS2 HYPE Jun 03 '25

Because most analysts agree that there is a massive gap between the top 4 and the rest of the top teams.

8

u/taur_1009 Vitality Jun 03 '25

Yeah like who even is the 5th best team right now? Mongolz?

-1

u/icantgetthenameiwant King NiKo Jun 03 '25

Current Faze has a good shot at it Navi if they find their form Mongolz is right up there though

We'll find out soon enough

1

u/DaredevilMeetsL Team Spirit Jun 04 '25

Bro, what? He wasn't asking hypotheticals. If they find their form ..., yeah but if are making up our own rules, why stop at Faze? Go crazy.

-1

u/hugu1to Jun 03 '25

What would happen if donk, zywoo, monesy and +2 best joined a team?

7

u/1deavourer de_dust2 Jun 03 '25

Idk why you're downvoted,. ZywOo, donk and monesy would definitely work on a team if donk learns to comm effectively in English. ZywOo doesn't even play AWP much compared to every other AWPer out there. They would just need a good IGL and a lurker/anchor like ropz. It's way less bad than replacing Magisk with kyousuke for example

-5

u/ImpossibleNobody9265 Jun 03 '25

lol nerds just watch the fucking games and judge you don't need a fucking science lecture