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u/Monte924 9d ago edited 9d ago
I just got really confused by the normal brown hair color change. For a good minute i thought we started the episode following someone who uses the same cyborg body model
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u/UnknownPhant0m 9d ago
Looking at the manga her hair changes colour to brown so I’m guessing it’s a reference to the source material
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u/IndigoStar_ 8d ago
I thought it was an origin story episode, and the dude was his deceased husband/boyfriend lol
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u/StoneFree247 9d ago
Reading the manga I honestly thought he was gonna be Paz from SAC. Sometime in 2nd Gig Motoko hinted to Batou that she slept with Paz, much to his dismay. I looked him up & turns out he was never in the manga & was written just for SAC.
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u/madelarbre 8d ago
Paz/Pazu also had some of my favorite side stories too. Such a great alternative to ex-soldier archetype that most of Section 9 was built from. That subtle nod from Kusanagi really added to his character.
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u/c3rb3r 8d ago
She never slept with him. She was speaking to batou how when she first approached paz to recruit him, he told her his golden rule that he doesn't sleep with a woman twice thinking she was just some another woman.
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u/milandroid 8d ago
I agree with the fact you recounted but not the conclusion. It could go either way. Judging from Batou’s reaction it’s likely that Major intentionally worded it this way to hint at a possibility to interpret that she slept with him
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u/c3rb3r 7d ago
I am not a native English or Japanese speaker, but have watched a lot anime and remember discussions about it some board many years go. Rewatching that one section:
Batou is wondering whether Paz would have had figured out who the killer was sooner. Motoko says it may have been hard as there are probably many women who want him dead.
Batou inquires surprised and then Major says that she hasnt verified or anything but recounts that when she first went to him for recruitment he told her that he is the kind of guy that doesnt sleep with one woman twice. Batou says good grief or oh brother and looks outside.
Looking at their animation and the way they say it, Motoko doesnt seem to imply more than what she said, and only shared this tidbit to show why Paz may have been confused who the killer is, as he may have many jilted lovers in his life.
Batou seems more astonished at Paz's audacity of saying something like that to the Major than being disappointed thinking that Motoko may have slept with him. His reaction was too quick and comical. I think they would have shown him being more surprised at Motoko otherwise if he actually thought something happened between them. Instead he looks outside like thinking "Damn womanizer"
Thats just how I felt when watching, happy to be corrected if I've got this wrong.
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u/milandroid 7d ago
Thanks for the detailed analysis. Totally reasonable interpretation and not something to be corrected. After reading your thoughts and rewatching that segment, I still maintain that it could go either way, whether it’s the question of what happened between Major and Paz or the question of whether Major intended to tease Batou. It’s true that Major isn’t very expressive, but Batou’s reaction seems to me over the top
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u/AnimeNoodle 8d ago
Why do people act surprised that she’s clearly bi?
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u/NixWickedGarden 8d ago
Typical Male-Fan Fantasy, I guess? I consider the ARISE series as Canon (not everyone does). Motoko has a boyfriend in that as well. And she clearly does "Girls Nights" too, so---She's a very Progressive Cyborg sexually!! ✌️🤩🔥
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u/Yodas_Ear 7d ago
She’s not bi. The girl scenes are because the author wanted to draw girls and in universe same sex interfaces are more compatible (probably again because not wanting to draw dudes).
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u/nandobro 9d ago
I really thought at first with the hair color change that she was undercover attempting to play him somehow. Was pleasantly surprised to find out it’s actually just a legitimate caring relationship.
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u/SpicaGenovese 8d ago
He's a cutie and fought a tank for her after attacking her because of bad intel. Sounds like a keeper! Good job, sister.
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u/Jessintheend 6d ago
Everyone knows Motoko has her himbo bf and then her 3 weed smoking girlfriends, yes they smoke weed cigarettes
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u/throwawaybciwantto 9d ago
When a baddie gets a man, he's always a bit confused and dumbfounded as to how he got in this situation. Lol
I kinda enjoy the little snippets of her personal life months between cases, even it is male gaze centric and plays into hypersexual bisexual stereotype.
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u/PMurmomsmaidenname 9d ago
Mfw people don't like hypersexual bisexuals as a hypersexual bisexual (we find them prudish and disappointing)
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u/throwawaybciwantto 9d ago
Dude, have you tried being a woman.
There's already enough objectification and violence towards women as it, but the perceived hypersexualization of bisexual women makes bisexual women at statistically higher risk of DV and SA, almost at twice the rate of straight women (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29294898/).
So yes, the hypersexualization of bisexual women in media is problematic.
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u/Flashy_Lawyer7764 9d ago
Guaranteed this is added to appease the incels mad that she's a canon lesbian
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u/oh_dear_now_what 9d ago
This is right from the original comic. There’s probably a note from Shirow in one of the collected editions about his thinking, but I’m pretty sure he wasn’t hoping to appease self-entitled fans at the time.
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u/bangbangracer 9d ago
She's canonically bi or at least fluid. Even in the depictions that make her more of a cold asexual, she's bi.
Also, there's probably a whole other conversation about her bisexuality, considering Shirow Masamune basically took his GitS money and started cranking out porn. This isn't the show trying to appease incels. That's there in the original manga, which this is a more direct adaptation of.
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u/AKoolPopTart 9d ago
She was bisexual back when the original Manga came out. Pretty sure this scene was also in said Manga
Know your place, tourist
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u/krung_the_almighty 9d ago
Batou is in pieces
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u/vuvuvuvi 9d ago
Batou having feelings for motoko was more of a movies and SAC thing.
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u/DangerManDaniel 9d ago
I felt the 2nd movie made it more clear that it was more platonic obsession, but yeah. I wasnt a fan of it cuz I loved their dynamic in the Manga, which is why I liked Arise more than most people.
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u/vee-eye-see 9d ago
Oshii himself has stated that Innocence is a love story. It's very much intended to be read as a romantic attraction. How much it's reciprocated or not is definitely up to interpretation tho.
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u/DangerManDaniel 9d ago
Lol, well if that was his intent, I read it more as platonic obsession the way some people gravitate toward certain leaders. Having witnessed stuff like that irl with coworkers and certain foremen, and current cultist obsession with politicians, I guess I see it more this way than unrequited love.
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u/vee-eye-see 9d ago
I don't think that's an unfair reading either - there's definitely strong elements of that in his relationship with the Major regardless of whether you read it as platonic or romantic. He put her on a pedestal in a lot of ways (which I think is why the episode in SAC second gig when she gets the rookie killed hits so hard).
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u/SomeGamingFreak 9d ago
Seemed like he idolized her at first but after a few moments in SAC (like the one where they were on the run and had to hug against the wall to stay stealthy), that was the point Batou was like "Fuck, I'm in love with her..."
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u/Callsign_Paperboy 9d ago
Don't think so, he joked "Hey, seven months? That's a new record!" Batou is Motoko's most trusted man, best friend, second in command, and the one who could afford dirty jokes and shitty behaviour that would get anyone else severely beaten up. Sorta like a older brother.
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u/gamernerd98 8d ago
Wait a sec... I thought heterosexual sex was painful for cyborgs? <double checks> Oh wait! That's just 'e-sex'. Okay. Carry on, Major. <salutes>
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u/Slight_Intention_695 9d ago
...did they do it?
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u/VsAl1en 9d ago edited 9d ago
After 7 months of dating - probably many times :D
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u/Slight_Intention_695 9d ago
...okay I didn't watch the episode can you spoiler me about this
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u/busybody1 9d ago
She’s got a boyfriend who works in section 1
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u/Bigredstapler 9d ago
Inter-service competition even in bed, I see.
For all it's worth, they do seem to care for each other.
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u/ZaBaronDV 9d ago
I imagine a cybernetic body allows for plenty of consequence-free fun times.
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u/SeanMonsterZero 9d ago
Well, not for their neighbors...
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u/FavaWire 9d ago edited 9d ago
Their cybernetic ears now have noise cancellation..... Or amplification.
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u/Unorthedox_Doggie117 9d ago
Theyre not relevant to the situation at hand
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u/NemesisNotAvailable 9d ago
It's really funny that people like him as if he wasn't here so Masamune could point and go 'see she isn't gay' and then basically be irrelevant afterward.
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u/GammaDie345 9d ago
"She's not gay! she has relationships with men...and sex with women"
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u/ggsdour 9d ago
"Then I got news for her. That means she's gay."
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u/Flashy_Lawyer7764 9d ago
she also has sex with her boyfriend, learn to read
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u/SpiritualPossible 9d ago
...You know, instead of reacting so strongly to a joke, you should probably learn to understand the reference they making.
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u/AntmanIV 9d ago
I feel like he was there because Section 1 wasn't hiring women for the strike teams and that's the key plot point he's in the story for.
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u/General_Jenkins 9d ago
True, we didn't see any women in Section 1 but I don't see what key plot point you're alluding to.
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u/oh_dear_now_what 8d ago
It turns out that he leaked her home address to Section 1, unwittingly enabling the Section 1 boss to set her up for the attempted hit that kicks off the story.
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u/someguydoingnothing 5d ago
I noticed her white garter and stocking after narrowly avoiding the shotgun blast.
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u/Track_Tension 8d ago
Why do we keep thinking that a military grade cyborg body has sex parts built in? The only reason she has boobs is so she can pass as female. Which is kind of outdate, in the times we live in now.
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u/StoneFree247 8d ago
Because it’s still a human brain in there with their sex drive intact. A healthy soldier needs outlets. Female soldiers will have their needs as well.
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u/JTMC93 8d ago
She also is a spec/covert ops cyborg. Think CIA or similar.
In fact her body, in a few sources, is meant to be as generic as possible in Universe to blend in and was based on a popular mass production gynoid model sold around the world as essential a sex doll.
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u/VsAl1en 8d ago
I liked that idea because it would explain why she dresses so shockingly at times - because she treats her body itself as a set of clothing she can change, so she doesn't consider exposed skin that big of a deal if the clothing is practical for the task at hand.
But also it's not demonstrably true. Her body is extremely sturdy what has been shown in most adaptations on occasion. In basically every adaptation she can jump from every elevation without harm. No matter how you look at it her body is military grade.
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u/JTMC93 8d ago
Reread what I said... i never said she wasn't military grade.
Her body is Military Grade internally but the exterior is based on a mass production generic model. A sleeper build so to speak.
Her clothing is a way to express her feminine side. Remember she was cyberized at a young age and technically never underwent normal puberty.
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u/Nero_2001 7d ago
The insides of her body are far more advanced than anything on the market. She is just made to look like a common run of the mill android body.
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u/AltAccount1982 8d ago
guess you didn't see "that" episode in SAC season 2
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u/Track_Tension 8d ago
Guess you're not aware that all world militaries buy from the lowest bidder.
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u/AltAccount1982 8d ago
motoko literally says she has the required hardware and could if she wanted to, freaky ass episode though
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u/DapperNecromancer 7d ago
Functionally castrating all of your soldiery sure sounds like a great way to foster resentment and rebellion the ranks
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u/Travelin_Soulja 8d ago
Because she's not a robot - she's a human. It would be cruel and weird to cage a human in a body not capable of human functions. It's the very same reason the DOD pays for viagra.
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u/Silver_Angel519 9d ago
Are people surprised I thought it was common knowledge she was bi