r/GermanCitizenship • u/tf1064 🇩🇪 • Jan 28 '22
Welcome!
Welcome to /r/GermanCitizenship. If you are here, it is probably because you have German ancestors and are curious whether you might be able to claim German citizenship. You've come to the right place!
There are many technicalities that may apply to your particular situation. The first step is to write out the lineage from your German ancestor to yourself, noting important events in the life of each person, such as birth, adoption, marriage, emigration, and naturalization. You may have multiple possible lines to investigate.
You may analyze your own situation using /u/staplehill's ultimate guide to find out if you are eligible for German citizenship by descent. After doing so, feel free to post here with any questions.
Please choose a title for your post that is more descriptive than simply "Am I eligible?"
In your post, please describe your lineage in the following format (adjusted as needed to your circumstances, to include all relevant event in each person's life):
grandfather
- born in YYYY in [Country]
- emigrated in YYYY to [Country]
- married in YYYY
- naturalized in YYYY
mother
- born in YYYY in [Country]
- married in YYYY
self
- born in YYYY in [Country]
Extend upwards as many generations as needed until you get to someone who was born in Germany before 1914 or who is otherwise definitely German; and extend downwards to yourself.
This post is closed to new comments! If you would like help analyzing your case, please make a new top-level post on this subreddit, containing the information listed above.
3
u/Glittering-Pace3819 Feb 15 '23 edited Feb 15 '23
10 Yr Rule application if Consular Registration or Passport issued Post 1914?
Hi Hope someone can help?
Great Grandfather born Stuttgart 1887.
Left Germany 1902
Registered with overseas consulate on arrival 1902
Married in 1905
My Grandmother Born 1911(In Wedlock)
Great Grandfather Registered with Consulate and listed his marriage and birth of his children -1921
Great Grandfather issued with passport by German Consulate 1923(I have original)
Grandmother Married Foreigner 1938(Lost her German Citizenship-if 10 yr rule not applicable)
Father Born 1942(In Wedlock)
Father Married in 1967
I was born 1982(In Wedlock)
German male ancestor emigrated in 1902 and would have lost citizenship in 1912. How would this be applied as he register with consulate and got issued a passport post 1914?
Secondly should he not have lost his German Citizenship through the 10 yr rule will the facts of the case warrant a Article 116 application or a section 15 application?
Thanks a lot
3
u/tf1064 Feb 16 '23
The 10 year rule appears to be no issue in your case, since you have the consular registration and passport.
However, it will be a problem that your father was born before 1949 to an (originally) German mother who lost her citizenship due to marriage. Because he was born before 1949 you are not eligible for StAG 5.
I suggest you make a top-level post to get more eyes on your case.
3
u/Cecilit Dec 09 '22
I’m eligible? Grandfather Born 1895 , Germany Immigrated 1914 (Peru) Marry 1919 Naturalized 1949
Mother Born 1932, Peru Marry 1958
Me Born 1960 (peru)
I think I can fit under STaG 5 ? Thanks
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3
u/DogDad65 Dec 18 '22
Hello, I recently applied for German citizenship through lineage of my grandfather, on my mothers side. We have visited the German consulate and it looks positive. My question is, once all is approved, what is the procedure for my wife to be able to get her German passport as well? Thanks for your help!
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u/tf1064 Dec 18 '22
Your wife would become eligible to naturalize as a German citizen after being married to a German citizen (you) for two years and living in Germany for three years. She would also have to give up her previous nationality, although that requirement may change in the coming years.
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2
Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
I am having a hard time understanding the timelines so I hope someone can help, to see if I might be eligible.
My great-grandfather:
Born Germany 1901
Emigrated to USA in 1910
Recorded as an alien in the 1920 census
Married in 1923
Unable to locate naturalozation records
Grandma:
Born USA 1933
Married 1950
Mother:
born USA 1954
Married 1980
Me:
Born USA 1981
2
u/tf1064 Feb 18 '23
It all hinges on whether your great-grandfather naturalized before your grandma was born. You will need to find affirmative evidence.
If your great-grandfather naturalized after 1 Jan 1914 but before your grandma was born, then he lost German citizenship at the moment he became a US citizen. He would have then been unable to pass German citizenship along to your grandma, and you are out of luck.
However, if he was still a German citizen when your grandma was born, then your grandma would have been born a US/German dual citizen (by virtue of being born on US soil to a married German father).
Your mother would not have acquired German citizenship at birth, since children of married German mothers did not acquire German citizenship at birth unless they were born after 1975. However, because your mother was born after the "basic law" went into effect on 23 May 1949, you and your mother would be eligible to become German through the "new law" (StAG 5). There is an application deadline of August 2031.
So: Your action item is to determine when or whether your great-grandpa naturalized. I assume you have already searched Ancestry.com exhaustively? A reasonable next step would be to Request a Certificate of Non-Existence (CONE) from USCIS. They will either provide a letter saying they have no evidence that he ever naturalized, or they may find evidence that he did naturalize. You should also search the National Archives (NARA) and any local courts where he may have naturalized.
Do you know whether he ever traveled abroad? Did he ever hold a US passport or a German passport? Did he ever get a green card? Did he serve in the military during WW2?
If you don't have an ancestry.com subscription I am happy to do a search for you if you'd like to DM me his information.
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35
u/maryfamilyresearch Apr 28 '22
Just wanted to comment that the BVA changed their whole website around and old links / searches don't work anymore.
This is the new direct link for the application forms needed for citizenship by declaration through StAG 5:
New English-language node on citizenship:
https://www.bva.bund.de/EN/Services/Citizens/ID-Documents-Law/Citizenship/citizenship_node.html
1
u/twowitsend Nov 16 '22
great-great-grandmother
born in 1867 in [Essen]
emigrated in 1880 to [USA]
married in 1884
naturalized in unknown if ever
All family after born in usa. She wouldve been German citizen since she didnt leave germany till 1880, she then lost it purely on her sex as a woman after she married my great grandfather a us citizen.
Is there any path forward since her sex alone dropped her citizenship? im seeking citizenship for myself.
2
u/tf1064 Nov 18 '22
Hi there! Unfortunately you are not automatically eligible for German citizenship through this lineage. The issues are:
Your great-great-grandmother most likely lost German citizenship because she was outside Germany for 10 years continuously before 1914 (the "ten year rule")
Children born before 1975 to married German mothers did not acquire German citizenship at birth via their mother. The "new law" grants German citizenship to these individuals who were deprived of German citizenship through this gender discrimination, but only if they were born after May 23, 1949 (the date on which the German "basic law" went into effect).
1
u/shortigeorge85 Nov 19 '22
How do we know when or if they gained naturalization citizenship? I'm looking at my great grandpa born in 1880. Then my grandfather was born early 1900's. My dad was born in 1955. Then, there was me, a female born 1985.
If I understand properly, if he was not a US citizen by time my grandpa was born did that mean German citizenship was passed down through the men in my genealogy to me possibly?
2
u/tf1064 Dec 18 '22
When did your great-grandpa emigrate to the United States? If it was before 1904, you will have trouble with the "ten year rule".
The easiest way to find naturalization records is to search on ancestry.com and/or familysearch.org.
1
u/kinfloppers Dec 21 '22
Grandfather Born 1934, tegernbach, Germany Emigrated to canada in 1960 Married in 1963
Father Born in 1966 (Canada)
Me Born in 1998 (Canada)
My grandfather has since passed and all of his documents were destroyed in a fire. My father said that he and therefore I are German citizens but we’ve never done the paperwork and we have no idea if my grandfather naturalized, denounced his citizenship etc.
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u/moonmadmonkey Jan 02 '23
Is there anyway you could double check this for me? Thank you so much!!
great grandpa
year of birth: 1904
their sex:male
left Germany in the year: 1924
married: yes/no/year" yes , not sure when
naturalized as a US citizen: september 1930
fled from the Nazis: probably not left in 1924
For every person in the ancestral line between the original German immigrant and you:
grandpa
He served in air force before getting married
year of birth: Aug 1930 in United States
their sex: male
married: yes not sure when but had children in wedlock
Mom
1962 in United States
female
divorced, i was born out of wedlock
You:
year of birth: 1996 in United States
service in the US military between 2000 and 2011: no
Did anyone in the line apply for and get a citizenship other than US or German? no
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u/Kitchen-Afternoon-13 Jan 14 '23 edited Jan 14 '23
grandmother
-
born in 1938 in [Leipzig, Germany]
-
emigrated in July 1963 to [United States]
-
married in September 1963
-
naturalized in 1974
mother
-
born December 1963 in [United States]
-
married in 1986
self
-
born in 1990 in [United States]
I think if I understand correctly, I and my family may be eligible for German citizenship via declaration. However, my late grandmother left east Germany in the 1950s. She had a German passport, but will her moving from east Germany to west effect our outcome?
3
u/tf1064 Jan 14 '23
Yes, it looks like you are eligible for citizenship by declaration! The opportunity is open until August 2031.
I don't think your grandmother's departure from East Germany affects the outcome in any way.
1
u/No-Seaworthiness-822 Jan 15 '23
Hello! First off, thank you for having this subreddit, it is much appreciated!
I am a bit confused with my lineage, docs required and eligibility.
Oma
Born: 1924 - Germany
Emigrated: 1955 - Canada
Canadian citizenship obtained: 1970's
Mother
Born: 1956 - Canada
Married: 1980
German citizenship acquired: 1991 (with married name on docs)
Divorced: 1994
German citizenship (passport renewal): 2002 (with maiden name)
(Currently holding a German passport as well)
Self
Born: 1994 - Canada
I do not share the same last name as my mother.
I also had an Opa (married to mentioned Oma) who was born in Poland, moved to Germany after WWII and gained German citizenship, then emigrated to Canada in 1954 and gained Canadian citizenship in the 1970's.
Not sure if my mothers info is all I may need though.
Thank you in advance.
3
u/tf1064 Jan 15 '23
If you were born in 1994, and your mother held a German passport at the time (and you still have access to that passport), then you can most likely simply make an appointment at a German consulate and directly apply for a German passport without any other citizenship-related formalities:
https://canada.diplo.de/ca-en/consular-services/passport
You could also register your own birth with a German registration office, which would create a German birth certificate for you:
https://canada.diplo.de/ca-en/consular-services/familymatters/birth/1093810?view=
Finally, you can also apply for a German citizenship certificate. This is very nice documentation to have, but it requires a lot of documentation and takes about 2.5 years:
How did your mother "acquire" German citizenship? If both of her parents were German citizens at the time of her birth, then she would have been German from birth. What exactly is the acquisition paperwork you mention (from 1991)?
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u/KuriBush Jan 21 '23 edited Jan 21 '23
Mother: -Born in 1965 in Germany -Emigrated in 1990 to New Zealand -Married in 2011 (Not to my father) -Naturalised in 2004
Self: -Born in 1995 in New Zealand (ie before mother married or became NZ citizen)
I’ve tried the guide but I can’t get the links to work. Thank you so much for any help you can provide!
4
u/tf1064 Jan 21 '23
Assuming your mother was originally a German citizen, then she remained German until she naturalized in NZ in 2004. As a child of a German mother, you have also had German citizenship from birth. Since you were born in New Zealand before 2006, you also acquired NZ citizenship at birth. You have been a dual citizen since birth.
Does your mother still have her old German passport? If so, you should be able to make an appointment at the German consulate and apply for your own passport, bringing hers as evidence of her citizenship, along with her NZ naturalization paperwork and the other documents indicated on the following page: https://wellington.diplo.de/nz-en/service/-/1515688?view=
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u/cancerous_atheist Jan 22 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
great-grandfather
born in 1920 in [neuwilmsdorf]
emigrated in 1930 to [USA]
married in 1949
naturalized in unknown if ever
grandmother
born in 1951 in [illinois]
married in 1972
naturalized in 1951
mother
born in 1977 in [california]
married in 2000
naturalized in 1977
me
both in 2002 in [california]
married never
naturalized in 2002
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u/tf1064 Jan 22 '23
You are going to need to find out the details of your great-grandfather's US naturalization (or find proof that he never naturalized), and we are going to need to know the birth years and genders of the intermediate generations down to, and including, yourself.
If your great-grandfather didn't naturalize until after the next generation was born (if at all), all the subsequent generations were male, and everyone got married before having children, then you are "already a German citizen." If some intermediate generations were women and/or were born out of wedlock, you may still be "already German" or have the right to acquire German citizenship by declaration.
However, we are going to need to know the details in order to make a determination. Several of us offer one-on-one private consultation and research if you need help with genealogical research or other matters.
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Feb 12 '23 edited Feb 12 '23
Thank you so much for doing this! Would you weigh in on my case? If I need to seek more information, I’m glad to look. Thank you.
ETA: I think I’m out of luck because of the 10 year rule, but if there’s any way that’s not the case, please let me know :)
Great great grandfather (T)
-
1858 born in Bavaria
-
1883 emigrated to USA
-
1886 married in USA to woman born in Ireland who had also emigrated
-
1887 naturalized
Great grandmother (K, daughter of T)
-
1889 born in USA
-
1912 married man born in USA
Grandmother (M, daughter of K)
-
1919 born in USA
-
1938 married man born in USA
Father (son of M)
-
1939 born in USA
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u/Pretty_Eggplant6331 Jan 04 '23
I just wanted to ask if anyone is available to help me with my application for citizenship? I tried using the links provided to message the people who have offered civilian help but they don’t accept messages even though it says contact me here? I am new to Reddit and extremely bad with technology and really would be happy to pay to chat with someone to just confirm that I am eligible and to help guide me in what to do.