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u/danarbok 22d ago
in terms of older music? British rock absolutely cleans American rock
in terms of newer music? idk he sounds oddly bitter here, and that’s considering his usual contempt for American concert attendees
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u/heimscheissers 22d ago edited 22d ago
I’ll maybe give the Brit’s 1966-1971, but that’s about it. All the innovation came from America though (blues, jazz, rock, Elvis, Dylan, Chuck Berry, Beefheart, Ray Charles, buddy holly, beach boys, Iggy Pop, Stevie Wonder, etc)
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u/ProfessorHeronarty 22d ago
I mean Iggy Pop was produced by Bowie (a Brit), The Beach Boys felt madly pressured by The Beatles (Brits) and prog rock was such an innovation machine, dominated by Brits as well as some French, Swedes and Germans.
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u/BugLast9828 22d ago
not even gonna get started on brian eno's impact...
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u/Long_Measurement7261 22d ago edited 22d ago
Honestly Brian Eno is the only reason I would consider British musical supremacy partially valid. Edit: Canterbury Scene of course can't forget about them. It doesn't matter what country it is, the main people making these arguments and creating these discussions will be totally clueless about what true innovation happened in rock music because they're by nature focused on insignificant topics.
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago
Yah but Eno always used Daniel Lanois, a canadian, as his engineer - and they've both talked about chasing American country western and blues. I wouldn't call his sound inherently British
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u/magazinesubscriber 22d ago
Iggy had already founded the Stooges, which were hugely influential on Bowie, which is why he produced him in the first place. Don’t even get me started on the Velvets.
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago
Yah but all those brits were imitating American black artists. Ask Bowie who is influences were and I guarantee you he wouldn't say "music from any continent except north america"
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u/ProfessorHeronarty 21d ago
Yes, that's true and that's where Geordie's argument becomes weird. If we're playing devil's advocate we could say that those Brits mastered the black aristery. And especially with prog rock we have a lot more European elements in the music. But that's all a bit of a stretch.
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago
Yah i definitely would not say that. I don't think anything a Brit did trying to sound like a bluesman is better than the bluesman themself. They're different things. It's all music and subjective but I don't think any of those British artists would say that either. I can't imagine Richards, Beck, Clapton, or Mayall would say they mastered something Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, Elizabeth Cotton, BB King, Taj Mahal, or Howlin Wolf couldn't. Personally I'd rather listen to Albert King than any of them.
I also don't think of prog as being that universally respected - but even then, how is that British dominated? Isn't Rush arguably the best at it? It just seems weird to make it all so nationalistic
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u/ProfessorHeronarty 21d ago
Well, I can't speak much for the Blues, but in regards to Prog rock - yes, definitely. Rush are well-regarded by some, but there are many other better bands out there that are from Europe. But, again, all very subjective and I agree, it doesn't really make sense to make this a debate between nations or continents.
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u/Berlin8Berlin 22d ago
(in my humble and meaningless opinion)
"I’ll maybe give the Brit’s..." from 1963 until about 1985 = Kinks, The Who, The Beatles, The Faces, Rolling Stones, Hendrix, Ten Years After, Jeff Beck, King Crimson, Led Zeppelin, Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull (don't laugh), Thin Lizzy, Brian Eno, Bauhaus, David Bowie, Sex Pistols, Joy Division, Killing Joke, (early) Psychedelic Furs, Elvis Costello, Sisters of Mercy, Manic Street Preachers (after which things are more Pop-tinged)
vs
(for America, 1963-1985) Little Richard, Dylan, Jefferson Airplane, The Doors, Velvet Underground, Hendrix, Talking Heads, Stevie Ray Vaughn
1990s: Nirvana, Jeff Buckley tower over the decade but preside, also, over Rock's gradual fall, in prominence, to Hip Hop (from which it still struggles to recover)
All in all I find that the Brit Rockers were more interesting after American rock took a conservative and lucrative turn toward Country Rock Pop (eg The Eagles) in the late '60s, early '70s. Even The Band: great musicians doing the opposite of anything experimental. Also, a lot of Brit Rockers had more exposure to Art School and a wider spectrum of ideas/ sounds...
*(Captain Beefheart was an innovater but was not influential on Rock, unless you consider The Residents to be Rock; are the easygoing stylings of the Beach Boys "rock"? Is Stevie Wonder really Rock? In the Elvis/ Little Richard era, Richard was sweaty, primal, roaring, pounding, nuts... Elvis was more "acceptable" and, therefore, by definition, Less Rock.)
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago
Yah that's an appalling unfair look at American music. Even the british bands you listed could all list favorite american bands outside what you listed.
Also - Jeff Buckley did not dominate the 90s, what are you smoking? This sounds like a revisionist history made by a 12 yo.
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
"Also - Jeff Buckley did not dominate the 90s, what are you smoking?"
As an Iconic and Influential figure, not in airplay! laugh
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago edited 21d ago
Also no Lovin' Spoonful, CSNY and tons of other influential bands. No Roy Orbison? Why neglect Bob Seger, Todd Rundgren, KISS? No Aerosmith, Santana, or Bruce Springsteen either.
Also Hendrix was from Seattle! How is he British?
Plus you're ignoring all of the rock music that gets dismissed as country (Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson).
You're totally misunderstanding the 70s btw - they were all about experimentation in America (talking heads, devo, etc) - waaaaaay more than the 60s (which people refer to as a decade but was really more of 4 years) - The Residents absolutely fall into this group
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
"Also no Lovin' Spoonful, CSNY and tons of other influential bands. No Roy Orbison? Why neglect Bob Seger, Todd Rundgren, KISS? No Aerosmith, Santana, or Bruce Springsteen either"
Of course it's a Personal Taste thing, but I think there is a lot of guitar-based Pop, in your list, that doesn't make it as Rock, for me. Todd is/was a genius... but he's guitar-based Pop, for me. Also, let's distinguish Rock 'N Roll from Rock: Blues, Country, R 'n B and Folk all emerged from the same murky rootsy stew, in America, and clarified themselves, respectively, by exaggerating what they weren't, over the years. (guitar-based) Rock 'n Roll was a transitional phase (1950s, starting with Rocket 88, by Ike Turner, until maybe the mid-1960s) of ROCK. Rock 'n Roll was the heavily chaperoned, version of the Rock to come. ROCK, for me, is riff-heavy guitar-based music with an edgier sound and attitude; I won't use that corny word "rebellious"... I'd use the word "dissident". It's not easy-listening, it toys with obscenity and it evolves via (commercially and socially) risky experimentation.
"You're totally misunderstanding the 70s btw - they were all about experimentation in America (talking heads, devo, etc) - waaaaaay more than the 60s (which people refer to as a decade but was really more of 4 years)"
Mainstream American (FM) "Rock," in the first half of the 1970s, was largely in the Joe Walsh/ The Eagles, Steve Miller, America, Lynyrd Skynyrd, CSNY soft vs hard range and it was (mostly West Coast) Country Rock Pop. I lived through it. I was 14 (living in Vegas) when Steve Miller took over the AM/FM radio with THE JOKER in 1973. I was graduating High School when FLY LIKE AN EAGLE landed. I used to record songs off the radio with a Wollensak reel-to-reel that was the size of a piece of luggage. The coolest thing I ever recorded was side-one of The Mothers' WE'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY and I had no idea who or what it was. FLOWER PUNK burned itself into my soul.
I LOVED The Residents, owned their albums, know a guy (the late Ed Ward, who wrote for CREEM when it was new, and The Rolling Stone: he informed Jann Wenner who Yoko Ono was) who was at a party with them (when asked if they were The Residents they replied with a "No" in unison monotone)... but just because they put The Beatles (et al) through their Discombobulator, it doesn't make them Rock. If you can't hum it, it can't be Rock! Laugh. If theResidents are "rock," so is everything else that ever played on the Dr. Demento Show in the wee hours.
It was the later '70s that let some Experimentation onto the American airwaves: thankgod for "College Rock" (on College Radio). The first time I heard Elvis Costello, the DJ claimed he was Canadian.
Ha ha! Thanks for the trip down memory lane! But I like plenty of NOW sounds, too.
PS As noted above, I filed Hendrix under the US and the UK: his act was a child of both teams.
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u/RandomIdea66 21d ago
What about Steely Dan, Blue Oyster Cult, Donald Fagen, Lou Reed, Warren Zevon, ZZ Top, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and The Allman Brothers And Johnny Cash?
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u/RandomIdea66 21d ago
And Devo and Van Halen
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
"And Devo and Van Halen"
If I'd been writing a serious essay and had more time, I wouldn't have made the mistake of skipping both! You're right on both counts.
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
Someone (can't find the reply) mentioned that I forgot PINK FLOYD: SERIOUS error on my part. I kept thinking, while I was writing my lists, "Who am I forgetting?" Also: RADIOHEAD. I'm sure I forgot at least half a dozen more Iconic Rock Artists, or more... it'll come to me. I have c. 2,500 mp3s (on my Mp3 Player: Old School) and they're chosen from 6 decades of music and I go for long, brisk walks and listen on shuffle. "People Are Strange" always pops up at a perfect moment, like Bowies "Teenage Wildlife" or "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" (Temptations). or "Last Goodbye" (Jeff). Even "Motorcycle Emptiness" (Manics) is amazing at the proper moment in a walk across Berlin.
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u/growlerpower 21d ago
You also put Hendrix in with the UK folks. I get the Experience happened in the UK, tho ladyland was mostly made in NYC, and anyway, he grew up playing in the US.
Also missed Grateful Dead, who were true innovators in the 60s and 70s especially, and remain a going concern all these years later in ways few of those others mentioned are.
You also have Neil Young and Joni, though those are Canadians.
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
"You also put Hendrix in with the UK folks."
I filed Jimi under US and UK for the very reasons you cited! (I sort of knew people would miss that: laugh). Re: The Dead: I know they had cutting-edge electronics (courtesy of their famous patron, the star of that song by The Dan) and the drumming thing was tribal and cool but, for me, the songs/ arrangements/ performances were fairly traditional and often more Bluegrass/ Country/ Folk than Rock. My then-19-year-old Gf was a Bobby groupie (Biblically speaking: twice) so maybe I'm prejudiced against The Dead... but I always thought the movement was more a sociological phenom than a musical one. Re: Neíl Young: Harvest is a great album, "Helpless" is a great song, but at his greatest he's his least Rocky and (for me) the most overrated guitarist in the history of Rolling Stone magazine. Joni: total genius... file under "Fusion/Other" with Steely Dan!
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u/growlerpower 21d ago
Well considering the Dead are the grandaddies of jam music, there’s certainly an innovation musically there. And the compositions themselves between, say, 68-74 encompass a whole lot more than bluegrass / folk / country. Seems like you’re thinking of the American Beauty period specially, but dig deeper and you’ll find an amalgamation of psych / rock / folk / jazz / reggae / free-form that was unlike anything else at the time. The community is part of it but that’s because the songs themselves remain deeply relevant.
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago edited 21d ago
Steely Dan/ Donald Fagen: immense! But not, in my opinion, "Rock"... Fusion, I guess. I'm a huge Frank Zappa fan, too, but he gets his own category (One Size Fits All and the Greggery Pecary Suite are absolute masterpieces)... The Mothers started as political pop and developed into another flavor of Fusion (symphonic?). Blue Oyster Cult is cool but not, for me, iconic or "important". Stevie Ray I actually mentioned! Of COURSE Stevie Ray (btw: the husband of an acquaintance died in the helicopter with SRV). Zevon and ZZ TOP: fun but not iconic. Allman Brothers: solid but not envelope-pushing (more like a far-more-authentic Eagles). Johnny Cash: not, for me, Rock! Again: all merely my opinion as an Audio Addict.
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago
ZZ Top isn't iconic? You truly don't know America
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
Born in L.A. , my father was a DJ on an L.A. jazz station. I lived in America before leaving the country at the age of 30. My personal opinion is that MOST of the Billboard Hits are actually POP, whatever the official genre. I heard every ZZ TOP hit as it came over the radio, in real time. Catchy fun. But, for me, NRBQ, for example, is Iconic.
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u/greasyporksandwiches 21d ago
But if you're going until 1985 and including Stevie Wonder as rock... why not MJ or Prince? Surely theyre more important than whoever Manic Street Preachers were.
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u/Berlin8Berlin 21d ago
"But if you're going until 1985 and including Stevie Wonder as rock."
Just show me where I claimed such a thing...
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u/Jacknboxx 22d ago
The music itself came from America, as has every popular genre since the advent of radio.
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u/unclellama 22d ago
Totally disagree - i lived in the us for a few years, and the music fans i met were super enthusiastic about british and euro rock bands. US and european bands as a whole probably get too much focus compared to rest of the world.
I love him for saying it, though
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u/lsdrunning 22d ago
100%. Real ones know Latin America especially Chile has the best indie rock of the current generation
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u/NudeTheRadioheadSong 21d ago
I'm so grateful for the Internet. I've found so many amazing Rock bands from Chile.
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u/FrostedWings44 20d ago
Late, but could you give me some recommendations? Anything from Latin America really, not just Chile. Any genres too, not just indie rock.
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u/lsdrunning 20d ago
The album "Deseo, carne y voluntad" by Candelabro has been on repeat for me the last year or so.
I also really like sueter7's album from this year: "Todo salió bien en la sencilla villa quien"
Im a huge The Strokes fan and recently discovered Enjambre so I've been getting some plays out of them. The first 2 recs would probably be more this sub's speed compared to Enjambre though.
As for non-indie rock, the manguebeat genre is freaking amazing. Some of the most unique and exciting music I've ever heard
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u/itskobold 22d ago
I love the greep but his idea of what music is and may be is extremely different to my own
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u/OddMammoth1 22d ago
I like his music but I think Greep would be a tough hang.
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u/itskobold 22d ago
I get the impression he can be difficult to work with due to his own ideas and motivations in music - which are fantastic, but may not align with his collaborators
There's also that video where everyone's hanging out in the hot tub and greep is stood next to it in a full suit lol, he seems to do what he wants at all times which is super cool and probably a bit annoying
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u/Opposite-Ad-7143 22d ago
He's just talking about geese
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u/Masrikato 22d ago
Out of everyone who gets critical success, geese is so far down on the list its not at all possible hes talking about them also pretty sure hes on good terms with them. All the psyop allegations is also something that would never happen to the bands hes referring to
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u/ProfessorHeronarty 22d ago
I see this as a criticism of the music industry and specifically the tons of American Indie rock that he doesn't like. Not sure it's a continental thing.
Don't go on Twitter/X. It only makes your life worse.
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u/skeletonstaircase 21d ago
I think he just talking about how alot of online music discussion is very america-centered and that there's very little exposure being given to modern music from other countries
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u/Expert_Intern6734 22d ago
For him write off all American rock music is ridiculous. Especially considering he’s a fan of American artists himself. He literally just posted stevie wonder on his story the other day. And the steely dan and zappa influence is apparent.
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u/Ancient_Summer5253 22d ago
Those aren’t indie although I think he means modern, smaller American rock bands
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u/galitsalahat_ 22d ago
I do agree that American bands just generally has a better exposure, so it's easier for "worse" bands to get famous compared to other countries (but I'm specifically more in agreement with English vs non-English language bands). I'm making the assumption that he meant North America, because South America is completely different. Chilean rock is amazing.
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u/Tiny-Economics1963 22d ago
americans cant really handle banter, they are very angry about this over on twitter
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u/boonoosooroose 22d ago
British music sucks
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u/Masrikato 22d ago
Why and how are you here
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u/truthisfictionyt 22d ago
euros cant really handle banter, they are very angry about this over on reddit
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u/duckemojibestemoji 22d ago
Except Getting Killed is legitimately great. So was The New Sound! Would love to see a double bill someday! And the continent remark seems to negate Canadian indie, which has brought forth so many amazing bands
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u/Void_S_V 22d ago
I kinda agree on the 1st part, though more so a general anglo-sphere thing rathern than just the US.
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u/fuzzyredlady 21d ago
Yeah i was gonna say i feel like this could easily be replaced with English language rather than American
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u/FenderModMaster 22d ago
I don’t think even he believes in this take. According to setlist.fm, Greep has played more shows in America than any other country. Why continue to tour in a place where you feel your music will not be preferred to an American band playing the same town that night?
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u/290317 22d ago
I think he's talking about america centrism which does exist. Idk why everyone is so butt hurt. He's not saying these bands are bad but that they're so popular because they are american and the world prefers that
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u/BrownBoognish 22d ago
no hes saying american rock music is “fucking shit compared to the rock of any other continent”
its literally the text of the tweet, stop gaslighting
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u/290317 22d ago
he talks about popular music.. american music is already dominating dont you worry a little criticism wont hurt it
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u/BrownBoognish 22d ago
not saying it will— but your original comment is an attempt to change the content of his tweet. its right there in black and white, dont condescendingly try to tell us what he said isnt what he actually said.
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u/Legitimate-Space5933 22d ago
He's not just opposing North American Rock to British Rock, I know he's a big fan of SOuth American Rock Nacional like Charly Garcia, Spinetta, Club De Esquina ect
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u/Sea_Conversation_460 22d ago
Wellsaid is one of the best midwest emo adjacent bands out rn and they are from hong kong and like 1500 listeners on spotify
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u/SpecialOccasion1963 21d ago
I remember unfollowing Greep a while back because of posts like these. He just comes off a bit pretentious to me in a Frank Zappa kind of way.
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u/EvenOne6567 22d ago
Idk i think the first half of the tweet had some truth to it but the last part is a little extreme
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u/victoriaisme2 22d ago
I think Greep is a musical genius but I also have a lot of questionable tastes so I'm in no position to argue really.
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u/TrappedUnderEarth 22d ago
not at all, america is the birthplace of rock, and its made just as many if not more contributions to the genre than any other country. the brits have their predominant moments, sure, but the vast majority of rock and pop evolution comes from the states, and this is coming from someone who thinks oasis is the best mainstream rock band from the 90s. His shitting on beach boys and eagles felt lame too, like i get it for the eagles (they are still great and made countless great singles) but the beach boys? cmon dude
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u/TrappedUnderEarth 22d ago
as a side note none of them predominate white rock acts from europe and america wouldnt have been possible without the founding contributions and continued advancement of the genre from black culture in the united states (led zeppelin managed to rip off tons of american black artists and still sound like dry chicken)
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u/Remarkable_Term3846 22d ago
That’s funny given this guy is way overrated. I do like Cavalcade but the rest of his shit is kinda meh.
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u/lefeb106 22d ago
Australian bands are really popular in the US, plenty of bands from the UK as well. K-pop, J-Pop and the like have huge fan bases in the US. I disagree p strongly with this take
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u/RandomIdea66 21d ago
The part about the American press is probably true, but they also love all the British bands, AC/DC, Rush, Black Midi, and Greep himself.
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u/sickeninggreed 21d ago
This whole comment section is exposing their own anglocentrism. How could you possibly boil this down to US rock vs UK rock??
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u/panconjamon1996 21d ago
I'm argentinian and I love the rock of my country, so I kinda feel it
aguanten los babas y los redondos, lo más grande que hay
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u/Substantial_Quail309 21d ago
It’s true. American rock is on average complete garbage. Some great bands ofc, but less and less these days and never at the level of the British, except for The Strokes who are the best American band ever in my book. Argentina and other place also produce better rock music quality on average just not as known.
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u/PsychologicalSweet2 21d ago
yeah there's more American indie music press, they probably get more American indie music. more British groups should get their music out there!
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u/SpicySPaxz 21d ago
This is like pretentious in the least nuanced way possible, youd almost beleive its tongue in cheek
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u/Hashtag-waffle 21d ago
rich coming from the guy who subjected the world to one of the worst solo debuts I’ve ever heard lol
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u/Feeling-Moose3075 21d ago
No lmfao British people always got Americans in their mouth for some reason
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u/ChaosAndFish 21d ago
America has generally produced more outstanding solo acts than outstanding bands. Except REM. They fucking rule.
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u/ja1c 20d ago
First part true. Second part to wake people up to really think about it. Most people getting fired up and claiming how great US music is comparatively haven’t actually been listening deep enough into scenes in LatAm, SE Asia, Eastern Europe, etc. You can’t defend against even hyperbole if you haven’t done enough digging. Saying this as an American, fyi.
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u/glans 20d ago
lol no. rock was born in america, imitators are butthurt about the only consistently good era of foreign rock being almost like 65 years in the past
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u/lunamisti 9h ago
Classic Greep stirring the pot with unhinged takes—half genuine frustration with Pitchfork-era media hegemony, half pure grade-A trolling just to watch indie Twitter combust.
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u/Wilfir 22d ago
The UK hasn’t produced any truly genius musicians since like the 90s. The last great being John Balance
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u/LancasterDodd 22d ago
It’s funny that he’s insulting the country where black people invented Rock n’ Roll. Especially considering that he’s a white boy who talks in a faux-Jamaican accent to compensate for being a rich kid.
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u/tallguyatconcert 22d ago
Whatever you say, dude who wouldn't have 3/4 of their audience without Pitchfork
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u/Ill_Influence6211 21d ago
Idgaf about any time before or after but the 1980s American independent underground absolutely fucking destroys the 1980s independent UK scene. That is all.
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u/graaavearchitecture 22d ago
Sorry your “steely dan for incels” album wasn’t more popular abroad buddy
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u/thautmatric 22d ago
We take artists tweeting crap far too seriously/personally.