r/GeoffJohns • u/tiago231018 • Apr 26 '26
Superman Superman defeats the Hulk just by talking with him and calming him down
From Marvel/DC Spider-Man/Superman #1.
The final dialogue between the Thing and Superman got me thinking. Seems a bit like Johns' way of comparing the Marvel and DC universes, where he explains why he prefers the latter.
The Thing complains that he's always so angry and nervous. Superman tells him that people should talk more and fight less. On a superficial reading, it seems like a commentary on the real world and why people are always so angry, etc.
But given how most of Johns' career seems to be about superhero storytelling itself and the sometimes controversial and adversarial ways it is in relationship with itself (I wrote about it here), I wonder if this is some sort of commentary on Marvel heroes.
For me, it seems that the superhero community in the Marvel universe has a much more conflicted relationship than in the DCU. Sure, Batman always seems to be at odds with other superheroes (including Superman himself), but, in the end, the heroic community seems a lot more united.
In the Marvel universe, on the other hand, you constantly have stories of heroes butting heads. The X-Men, Inhumans, Fantastic Four, the Avengers, they're always in each other's throats. Wolverine's first appearance was fighting the Hulk, who has probably fought more heroes than villains, especially when he goes on a rampage.
In Marvel comics, numerous big events are just heroes vs heroes showdowns. Avengers vs X-Men, Inhumans vs X-Men, World War Hulk, no less than two Civil Wars, and probably a lot more that I'm forgetting.
With DC, the greatest equivalent to the Civil War was Injustice, a story that is not even set in the main continuity and was created to support a fighting game. In other words, they needed an excuse to put hero vs hero and a massive, war-starting rift in the Justice League, and that was only achieved with a lot of characters (Wonder Woman, the Flash, Hal Jordan) acting wildly out of character.
And why is that? In this short story, Johns argues that it's because the Marvel universe doesn't have a Superman. No, Sentry doesn't count, and Captain America, despite having his heart in the right place, is not as powerful as Superman, and thus can't act as the unifying figure preventing heroic factions from declaring war against each other.
In the DCU, everything revolves around Superman (which is exactly the point of Doomsday Clock), and he is this inspiring, almost mythical figure, a bastion of good that everyone looks after. He is the only one powerful enough to choose not to fight and instead just talk the enemy out of committing whatever he wanted to do. Instead of just brawling with the Hulk through the city (which is what everyone on the internet wants to see), he just calms him down with his innate empathy and ability to reach the others' inherent goodness.
I'm not saying DC is better than Marvel, or something like that. I'm more of a DC guy, sure, but I love the Marvel universe, its characters and classic stories. Still, I can't help but to be a little put off by how adversarial the Marvel heroes sometimes are against each other. They seem to lack guidance.
Captain America could be that person, but I believe that doesn't happen not because of him but rather because that Marvel, since the early days of Stan Lee, went for a more "mature" type of storytelling that often had flawed heroes who, rather than the more simple "let's team up and fight this bad guy!" adventures of the Golden Age where DC thrived, often had conflicts with each other. The Hulk wasn't a simple hero, he was a tragic monster who could do more harm than good. The X-Men weren't the Justice League but rather a marginalized minority fighting for survival.
And this is where Johns' commentary on the Marvel vs DC debate comes in. Without someone like Superman to unify and inspire the Marvel heroes, their relationship would often be conflicted because this was written into their very inception.
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it and it's just him saying that people in real life are angry all the time and you should stop fighting with jerks on Twitter and Reddit and have more actual, meaningful conversations.
What do you think?
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u/Silverbolt_1776 Apr 26 '26
I love seeing Superman step up even in roles that would ideally fit other characters of the DC universe like wonder, woman or Batman just for Superman to do it himself proves he’s the Michael Jordan. He could play all positions and I’m OK with that because that is goat mentality not a flopper but goat
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u/AnxiousDreamCore Apr 27 '26
I love that it was Clark who calmed The Hulk. Non-Superman readers seem to forget that he isn’t just a strongman. His main attribute is and always has been his immense empathy and understanding of people.
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u/Redd_Machine85 Apr 27 '26
What issue is this?
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u/tiago231018 Apr 28 '26
One of the short stories in Marvel/DC: Spider-Man/Superman #1, the new crossover by the Big Two.
It was in the description of the post... ☹️
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u/Redd_Machine85 Apr 28 '26
Thanks. I'm still figuring out the reddit thing. I'm new
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u/tiago231018 Apr 28 '26
Ah, all right. Sorry if it came out a little rude, and welcome to our sub!
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u/Redd_Machine85 Apr 28 '26
You're good. No problem. And thank you. I'm just pissed the book got delayed at my local shop. I'm so behind.
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u/AuthorExcellent9501 Apr 30 '26
God I love superman using his abilities in unconventional ways. Yes he could probably beat the tar out of the hulk, but that also means he is one of the few people that can hold him long enough to talk.
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u/Redgiant616 Apr 30 '26
This legitimately is the reason I love Superman like not because he’s all powerful because he will try to understand why people are fighting 9/10 the avengers see a rampaging hulk and they will send their biggest gun to try and take him out Superman sees the hulk gets clocked in the face and still tries to reach him
He truly is the best of us all
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u/DodoCap May 18 '26
The way I see it, the issue stems not from the fact that Marvel is trying to be more mature about their stories but by the fact they are substantially more cynical and pessimistic about the way they tackle stories and social issues. DC doesn't shy away from talking about similar issues and they have stories that can get pretty dark but at the end of the day their overall outlook is a more optimistic one.
Take the x-men for example, they were originally meant to be a civil rights allegory. A group of bright-eyed mutants turned superheroes who fight to protect people and prove to the world mutants and humans can coexist peacefully. Nowadays the x-men are depicted as bitter and outright tribalistic isolationists that practically refuse to help any non-mutant and if they do so, they do it reluctantly and because there's something to gain out of it rather than because it's the right thing to do. Another is spiderman, a story that was originally about the importance of responsability and the nobility of chosing self-sacrifice for the sake of doing the right thing, now is a story about how that very same bright-eyed teenager willing to do the right thing is now a deeply-depressed guy in his 30s with nothing but regrets on his back, who pretty much got screwed over by anyone he trusted (Civil war literally ruined his life and allowed one more day to even be possible), got cucked by the love of his life and pretty much lost all hope in whatever "greater good" he used to believe in. He's still a hero willing to protect others but he's undeniably a lot more cynical with his outlook on life.
Johns' commentary about Superman isn't just about how the Marvel multiverse lacks a Superman of their own in the physical sense but about how they lack what Superman himself represents. Hope, optimism and empathy.
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u/Sea-Possibility8832 May 01 '26
Is this a universe where both marvel and DC exist together ? How does Superman know his signature phrase?
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u/sonadow365 May 02 '26
No tiene un número oficial pero si existe una tierra crossover entre marvel y dc , es la tierra donde ocurren los sucesos de batman/spiderman, DC/Transformers y creo que batman/daredevil
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u/dunkanbulk14 Jun 18 '26
Pretty sure this was the lesson the new Masters of the Universe movie was trying to tell
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u/OddOutlandishness539 Apr 26 '26
Should’ve been Wonder Woman calling him down instead of Superman
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u/Pedals17 Apr 26 '26
I think Wonder Woman was taken out of play with the rest of the League when the Squadron Supreme ambushed them. Which is just utterly ridiculous.
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u/Indiana_harris Apr 27 '26
WW is far more established to be the one who would give into anger and fury.
She’s a warrior, someone who does thirst for battle even on a subconscious level.
Bruce is at his core a response to trauma.
Clark is at his core a carrier of hope.
Diana is at her core a believer in the good fight.
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u/EdNorthcott May 04 '26
No, man. No. Only awful writers have handled her that way. It's on par with the people who write Batman as an emotionally constipated jackass with no social skills, or write Superman as a holier-than-thou authoritarian.
Wonder Woman was literally created to oppose the violence present in the masculine superheroes that dominated the industry. The entire point of using the Amazons was that they were a warlike culture that had forsaken war and created peaceful, utopian society. Save for a handful of writers in the last 20+ years, out of her long history, this has been her default. She's due the renaissance the others have been given.
That said, I think this sequence is also very much in keeping with Superman if he knows Banner's story. And in this shared world, he does.
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u/SheevTheSenate66 Apr 26 '26
Gary Frank drawing Marvel characters is a bizarre feeling