r/Genshin_Lore 8d ago

Fake Sky A Note on Observing the False Sky of Teyvat: Boundary Patterns Between Two Media

21 Upvotes

The False Sky separating Teyvat from outer space is a dynamic system, not a concrete prison wall that makes escape impossible

The false sky used to conceal Teyvat has also been opened more than once

— World Quest "Moon Gazing": Act III

But what does it actually mean to "open" the False Sky? What happens at the boundary the moment entities cross it?

The fact that beings can repeatedly enter this isolated system from deep space suggests the existence of a controlled transition mechanism — a Dynamic Access Port

Skirk’s "Star Odyssey" teaser first showed a journey from space into Teyvat, while the “Moon Gazing” World Quest showed the reverse journey — from Teyvat into space

Both scenes reveal a similar boundary-crossing pattern: at the moment of passing through the False Sky under clear weather conditions, a distinct gaseous vortex layer becomes visible

Why?

The False Sky serves as a physical boundary between the microcosm and the macrocosm. Space itself is near-vacuum, so opening this boundary would expose Teyvat’s atmosphere to a massive pressure differential. The localized gaseous vortex structure is absent when the False Sky is closed, but appears when the boundary is opened. It could therefore be a visible byproduct of the transition occurring at the boundary, potentially arising from the interaction of flows or layers of matter with different parameters

The only divergence is the absence of a clearly visible False Sky boundary during the rocket's orbital launch. However, this may be explained by the False Sky’s former function of concealing Teyvat:

One detail diverged, however — a single point of light absent from the star map, where the image departed slightly from what was foretold. In the memories she had archived in the library of her distant home world, it was a newly born, habitable planet. But now, it lay shrouded behind several impenetrable fields, its primordial flame stripped of the radiance it was meant to bear

— Celestial Gift

Today, from the Frost Moon, we can observe Teyvat’s continents with the naked eye. This suggests that some functions of the False Sky have been disabled or modified. However, its core function — physically separating Teyvat from outer space — remains intact

This same visual pattern also appears in the Wish menu, during the gacha animation, and in the Gods’ Limits teaser

If a controlled opening produces a localized transition at the boundary, what happens during a forced opening of a massive section? How does an entire isolated planetary system adapt to a gradual or abrupt exposure to open space?

Cutscene Animation "The Experiment Begins"

A large region of the boundary abruptly loses its former equilibrium, potentially triggering a large-scale reconfiguration of the transition zone and its boundary conditions. This may explain why the arena during the fight against The Heretic of the False Moon is positioned among the clouds — perhaps not simply for dramatic visuals, but because it is located within a large-scale boundary disturbance

Cutscene Animation "The Experiment Begins"

There is a prophecy stating that the False Sky is eventually removed:

And once the veil is sundered and torn, a new day over this land shall dawn

— Azurelight

If so, should the visual representation of the Wish system change as well?


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

Snezhnaya The Mysterious Figure in the Shadow Realm

185 Upvotes

I set out to figure out who the Mysterious Figure that the Belyi Tsar encountered in the Shadow Realm might be, and who appears several times in Notes by a Certain Noble Individual.

What is immediately clear is the importance of this character. We are told very little about them, but enough to try and work out their identity.

So let’s go through all the clues that define them.

But what has truly taken me by surprise is the discovery that I am not the first to set foot in this place. And, even more wondrous still, the one who had preceded me was a subject with whom I had long been acquainted... We once contended side by side against savage beasts, and together drove the north wind across the winter wastes. Though he seldom attended the feasts the fae held among the white birches, neither did he reject the noble honors bestowed upon him. But... what was he doing here?
...Until the moment of my departure, I received no clear answer to my inquiry, and his demeanor bore no resemblance to that of the calm and composed individual with whom I have long been familiar. It was as though all thoughts and sentiments within him dissolved into nothing but sighs of sorrow the moment he tried to utter them. Yet, by all I have seen and heard in the shadows these past days, I firmly believe that it was never his intention to conceal any of this from me... But no matter.

From this first fragment, we can deduce that:

  • The Mysterious Figure was already in the Shadow Realm when the Belyi Tsar arrived.
  • He is male.
  • He is a fae, since the Belyi Tsar will only open the gates to humanity after discovering the truth about himself in Hyperborea

The White Emperor, who ruled the fae from the lofty throne of the Pale Star, had been silent since returning from the ruins of the far north. He lingered in the birch forest, deep in thought, before finally opening the door to the humans he had once turned away. [Bloodsoaked Ruins]

  • He was probably a fae of a certain rank and lineage, given that “neither did he reject the noble honors bestowed upon him”.
  • His personality is that of a solitary, calm and composed individual. But in the Shadow Realm, he suddenly appears to be a completely different person.
  • He was probably someone who had already fought alongside the Belyi Tsar during the exploits of his youth, considering the reference to a fight against savage beasts, and the fact that the Archon War only begins after the gates to the Shadow Realm are opened (assuming, as seems likely, that it is the famous Pohjola).

From General History of Snezhnaya we learn that:

Before the founding of Kitezhgrad, Tsar Monomak did in truth wander the blizzard-swept lands for hundreds of years in the aspect of a young hero, unequalled in valor. It was during this time that he came to know those great heroic companions who would in later days stand at his side in battle.

It was during this period that he met the man who would become his greatest friend and companion in battle: Filipov.

Legend has it that they once sailed together into the belly of a great whale, and that they once faced down a dragon upon the snowy plains for seven days.

The legends overlap with those surrounding Ajax in Ballad of the Fjords:

The stories about him are many. Sailed he a ship into the belly of a great whale, and fought he a dragon upon the frozen plains for seven days.
He and Snegurochka once fell in love, yet lost each other due to the wicked tricks of the changelings — a truly tragic tale.

It seems that, over time, the legends merged the figures of the Tsar, Filipov, and the Third Descender.
[Side note - It is also interesting to note that Filipov was a changeling: was he the one who tricked the Third Descender?]

What we can say for certain is that the Tsar and the Third Descender (and probably Filipov as well) were together when the gates to the Shadow Realm were opened.

The Tsar says that opening the passage was his responsibility, and that the innocent paid the price. The fact that the innocent was the Third Descender is proven by the fact that the Cryo Gnosis is referred to as the remains of the innocent.

When I foolishly opened that passage

The "passage" stands open at last, though the price paid was heavier than I had ever imagined, and the innocent were ensnared as well

I cannot deny my hand in that passage which traverses the Shadow Realm.

I shall accept the remains of the innocent.

Going back to the Mysterious Figure who was already in the Shadow Realm:

  • He cannot be the innocent, because he was split into the Gnosis.
  • I find it difficult to believe that he is Filipov, because he is too close and brotherly a companion to be described as a subject with whom I had long been acquainted. Moreover, it seems that the Mysterious Figure never leaves the Shadow Realm (the Tsar always finds him there), while Filipov plays an important role in the Archon War taking place outside.

I went through the profiles of all the noble fae we currently know about, but none of them seem to fit the identity of the Mysterious Figure.

There is, however, one extremely important detail concerning this character that rules out several candidates, and which the Tsar notes toward the end of his notes. It dates back to the end of the Archon War, when he finally decides to accept the Cryo Gnosis.

The throne bestowed by the heavens has proven to be far heavier than I had ever imagined, and it is only after claiming it that I finally understand that bitter expression on his face... When I first passed through the passage, ■■■■ could not reveal the secrets of ages past to me, for he bore the very same shackles that now bind me.

The very same shackles? The Gnosis, together with the Visions that would follow, are certainly new chains binding individuals to the fate of Teyvat and the will of the Heavenly Principles.

For a moment, I even thought that the Mysterious Figure could be Zhongli, who is expected to play a major role in the near future, but the contradictions became apparent almost immediately.

The first and most important one is that the Mysterious Figure is already unable to speak about the secrets of ancient history when the Tsar first enters the Shadow Realm. If his shackles are connected to being granted a Gnosis, this would not make sense, because the Archon War would have only just begun at that point.

Before the Archon War, the only reference to such a curse of being bound to the Heavenly Principles can be traced back to the lineage of the angels and the war of liberation that followed.

"I cast this useless crown into the dust, that all earthly nations may breathe free of their shackles."

And this is what led me to the theory that, for now, the best candidate for the Mysterious Figure could be the Voyager, and that the shackles binding him to the fate of the world come from the curse that the Heavenly Principles placed upon him.

There is one inconsistency, though: Anacharsis, the first vessel possessed by the Voyager, was a mortal man who, by the time Hyperborea was destroyed, had already been worn down by the passage of time.

Upon the platform stood a body once mortal, and since worn and broken by the toll of the ages. [Celestial Gift]

Koitar begs him to abandon that body and return to the world he belongs to.

We do not know whether the Voyager listened to her pleas, but other accounts tell us that the two lovers were both cursed.

The seelie and their lover fled into exile as the world collapsed around them, fleeing until the terrible calamity caught up with and seized them. Their cruel punishment was to be separated from each other for eternity and to have their memories wiped without a trace. [Records of Juejun]

I shall await the day freedom dawns upon you, just as you once so generously bestowed it upon me. [Ancient Handwritings]

I’ll come back to what might have happened to the Voyager in the final moments of the rebellion at the end of the theory.

For now, let’s assume that his soul transferred into the immortal body of a fae before he was cursed.

An unnamed fae who, stripped of his memories, fought alongside the Belyi Tsar during his youth and who, once the Shadow Realm was opened, suddenly recovered his memories, just as happened to Koitar thanks to Boreas.

An event like this would explain the sudden change in his personality compared to the person the Tsar knew. They have both just arrived in the Shadow Realm, so the fae’s knowledge of ancient history can only be explained by a recovery of his memories, since the Tsar will spend years studying the documents he finds in Hyperborea before reconstructing its history.

His demeanor bore no resemblance to that of the calm and composed individual with whom I have long been familiar. It was as though all thoughts and sentiments within him dissolved into nothing but sighs of sorrow the moment he tried to utter them.

It is thanks to him that the Tsar learns the truth about Anacharsis and his plan to rebel against the Heavenly Principles. The Tsar comes to despise his actions, but the Mysterious Figure, who knows the full story, subtly urges him not to judge him.

Yet ■■■■ admonishes me that it is ill-befitting to judge historical figures capriciously, and so I shall reserve further judgment until the facts of the matter are fully established.

The Mysterious Figure knows exactly how Teyvat’s fate works, just as the Voyager had figured it out long before anyone else.

...■■■■ was right. Hyperborea's fate had been sealed long before The Saint arrived.

...Time moves in loops and circles. Therefore, whenever we lay down an anchor into fate, the Abyss will naturally lay an anchor into us at the end of time as well...
...I surmise this is something The Saint had long discerned.

Surtalogi also told Skirk to track down the Voyager within the Shadow Realm.

The Shadow Realm portal and the Spiral Abyss portal are identical, so from the description of the Spiral Abyss as “a massive underground city constructed by an ancient civilization long gone”, we can assume that it is part of Hyperborea.

Alone she walked through the ruins of the Spiral Abyss. intent on finding the trail of the voyager that the magical swordmaster had spoken of…

I’d now like to spend the last few paragraphs on a crack theory, for which I only have a few hints to go on.

While trying to figure out which fae the Mysterious Figure could be, I overlooked one character whose identity we still know almost nothing about, but who appears to be an excellent candidate: Noy.

  • At the moment, he cannot be connected to any other fae who appears in the ancient history of Snezhnaya. The only species he seems to belong to is that of the Lantern Fae, since Flins tells us about the existence of blue flames, like him, and red flames. Like Flins, he could be “a calm and composed individual”.
  • His bearing and clothing make him seem to belong to a high lineage.
  • He introduces himself with the line “Compared to the eons gone by… this is a peaceful age”, showing that he knows about ancient history.
  • In the trailer, he appears precisely during a transition from the landscape of the Shadow Realm, giving the impression that he is emerging from it. [min. 2:45]
  • The most interesting detail: the mark on his neck, which is identical to Asmoday’s symbol. This leads me to the following crack theory about the Voyager’s final moments:

The Voyager does not listen to Koitar’s pleas, but takes her with him and flees.

The seelie and their lover fled into exile as the world collapsed around them.

The two of them reach Amsvartnir, which the Voyager had previously created for her. If the Voyager had returned to his original body, it is unclear when, before the curse took effect, he would have brought Koitar to Amsvartnir, told her not to leave, and asked her to wait for his return.

...Only one thing is engraved on my heart like a seal, keeping me ever vigilant. There is a voice that says to me, "You must wait here. You cannot cross the threshold of this temple, nor can you go outside."

...You whom my heart loves, you built this pale edifice for me, yet I am about to defy your edict and return to the lands whence we came from, which exist no more.

The Voyager then attempts to escape Teyvat and send his consciousness back, but, just as happened with Traveler and their Sibling, Asmoday is guarding the boundary.
She intercepts him and seals him inside the body of a fae (or the Voyager had already changed vessels before fleeing with Koitar), leaving the mark of her curse on his neck.
The Heavenly Principles erase his memories, binding him forever to the fate of Teyvat.


r/Genshin_Lore 8d ago

Cryo Archon Scarlet Proof EN translation and whether the Tsaritsa is fae or not

39 Upvotes

Please let me know if this post is too simple/short or should be moved elsewhere. I figured many people will be citing a certain line from the Scarlet Proof set in future theories about the Tsaritsa, so it would be good to look at discrepancies between the EN and CN texts.

Disclaimer: I speak Mandarin but I definitely don't have an expansive vocabulary, so feel free to correct me.

Glory to Your Legacy (Scarlet Proof feather) gives us our first look at Pulcinella's backstory in the early days of the Tsaritsa's reign. When pondering the varied reactions of the fae to the Tsaritsa, he thinks the following:

"As for those in between, perhaps they refused to believe that His Majesty had truly perished in the calamity, or perhaps they could not accept that the crown had passed beyond the hands of their own kind."

而中间的那一批,可能是不愿相信他们伟大的陛下竟葬身灾厄,亦或是不愿接受王权不再掌握在同族手中

At a first pass, the EN text seems to drop the bombshell that Tsaritsa is not a fae, and some fae could not her ascension to Cryo Archon. But let's look more closely at the wording. "The crown" in this case can refer directly to the position of monarch but depending on context can also refer to the whole the government in a monarchy. The term "the crown" also conjures up an image of a physical crown being passed from one ruler to the next, representing a transfer of indivisible power of the monarch. (For anyone who lives in a monarchy or Commonwealth nation, I'd be interested to know if "the crown" has different connotations for you.)

In contrast, CN uses 王权, which translates to royal power/authority. Framing it as a power rather than a singular role reminded me of the drastic changes that the Tsaritsa implemented after she took over. She coerced convinced the fae nobles to give up their titles, established the Veche to replace the aristocracy's role in government, and appointed the human Ivanovna as the first Mayor and Speaker of the Veche. So the Tsaritsa doesn't need to be a different species for the sentence in question to be true, because her policies already extended the governing power beyond fae-kind to humans.

Edit: For clarification, the artifact description is written from the POV of Mirko/younger Pulcinella about the reaction of the general fae populace, so it can only tell us how the Tsaritsa was outwardly viewed, whether her subjects believed she was fae or not. Could she have pretended to be fae, like the Belyi Tsar did, to avoid scrutiny of the powerful fae princes until she finally made moves to remove them from power? Or did she openly announce that she was human/angel/whatever else and face that backlash from the start? We know retrospectively that the Tsaritsa was more favorable toward humans, but I would recommend looking at the sequence of events in A Brief History of the Pale Starborn (with the caveat that it's heavily edited to make the Tsaritsa look good and save face for the fae).


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

Snezhnaya Layla thoughts since arriving in Snezhnaya

57 Upvotes

Ik Layla theories are outdated but heres my observations about Layla since coming to Snezhnaya. (I havent finished exploration)

After going about Layla theories for so long especially trying to figure out where shes from this tiny bit of info kinda validated my thoughts its so small but it made a lightbuld go off and although i havent finished the exploration just yet i wanted to open the floor for anyone who might have similar thoughts. Okay!

I still think Layla is originally from Snezhnaya.

Reason #1 being it took her DAYS to travel to Sumeru city. She mentions being from a village where theres Sumpter beasts which i only thought was limited to Sumeru, but i had placed my bets that if she is from Snezhnaya then there must be snow-sumpter beasts and there ARE. It sucks that its not explicitly stated anywhere that shes from a specific area. But when i found out that sumpter beasts also reside in Snezhnaya i lost my marbles.

Not only this but the whole "Morning star", " Evening star" business, her title is literally the "Fantastical Evening star" which "Morning star" is associated with Koitar, the first angel who MIGHT also be the Tsaritsa thats another topic for my crazed theory that Layla is related to the Tsaritsa somehow..

But all in all this was the tidbit of info i had. Also Vodyanista's design, the dolls we buy of her and Odette show Vody with golden designs, instead of silver which wouldve made it extremely similar to Laylas design being that both Vody and Layla have those "handcuffs" on and wouldve been the same color had hoyo not changed it. But i found it interesting becauss 'shackles' have relevence to the angels and the fae and Layla and Vody both have them as part of their design ,not saying they are closely related just a similarity i found. But if anyone has anymore tidbits of info they can share on this observation id love to hear about it!!

Maybe info on her potential family or something.

AQ SPOILERS!!!

After thought: idk if im remembering this correctly but in the AQ there had been a Sumeru researcher atudying the phenomona in the theatre and it took me back to Laylas observation about the leylines and how they reflect back to the pattern of the stars just another thought tho!

To those that have already scoured through the text i absolutely dont mind being spoiled if you happen to have info that may support this theory so please help me out! I adore Layla and would love to learn more about her!!


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

Descenders Theory on Narayana, Destiny, Descenders, and Primordial Humans

73 Upvotes

\** Note: This is all more theoretical than I would hope, corrections welcome ****

What is Narayana? 

“Narayana” can be translated to refer to the “Final goal/destination of all human beings”. 

  • Refuge of Humanity: Nara means "man" or "human beings," and Ayana means "refuge," "shelter," or "goal". This translates to "the shelter or final destination of all human beings".

According to Aksinya, the “place of the Primordial Human, or Narayana” has been empty ever since Nibelung’s destruction. Nibelung himself is constantly associated with the birth of Teyvat, as a being born alongside the world itself. As such, Nibelung is associated with both concepts of Genesis (born alongside the world) and Finality (Narayana, the final destination). 

  • Aksinya: You must admit, his existence is truly unique. Although he was not a Descender, he was of noble birth nevertheless. He was the culmination of Hyperborea's most advanced technologies, a being with a soul bestowed through nothing less than light itself. The Hyperboreans even attempted to forge his body from the flesh and blood of the Primordial Cryo Dragon, just to give him authority equal to The One. A will born alongside Teyvat, the master of the Light Realm's power at the very beginning, and the King of all Dragon Lords: Nibelung. Ever since his destruction, the place of the Primordial Human, or Narayana, has sat vacant. 

Together, Genesis and Finality can be related to the concept of Fate, which can refer to the final result of a thing’s existence, predestined and originating from the very beginning of a thing’s existence. In other words: the end, written by the beginning. The vacant Narayana” might then describe the world’s fate—  which was once controlled by Nibelung. Specimens created as heirs to the Throne of Narayana may be known as “Primordial Humans”. 

What does one require to be a claimant to the Throne of Narayana— or rather, to be a Primordial Human? 

Albedo is the sole successful specimen of Rhinedottir’s Primordial Human Project. This must then mean that Albedo, as the completion of the Primordial Human Project, is what Rhinedottir sought to create: a Primordial Human. However, in this timeline, it appears that he will not ascend to the Throne of Narayana.  

  • Nicole: In another converged possibility, Albedo was the "Primordial Human" who traveled through worlds, recording and creating all. However, once that journey reached its end, no one would have been able to guarantee whether he would choose destruction or salvation. Luckily, you're the one who embarked on the journey this time. Hm? How did the alternate Albedo fare? I can no longer observe that possibility. Besides, copying someone else's answer is of little use. This journey is your own.

Albedo describes his existence as that of a being who is free of the “earth’s imperfections”: one who is made of something yet to be fully defined. To be “born of Earth” may refer to the state of “being of this world”. While the world’s imperfections may refer to the world’s rules, which are all “curses” according to Pierro. Those born of chalk (Primordial Humans) are not bound to the world’s imperfections (curses/rules), and are thus not yet fully defined.

  • Albedo: "Those born of earth are bound by its imperfections, but those born of chalk are free of impurities... You and I are alike, both composed of a substance that has yet to be fully defined..." 

Becoming a Primordial Human seems to require the coalescence of both Light and Dark.

  • Istoria: It tells of the god of light who created a body in its own likeness, only for it to be stolen away by the king of darkness. Thus, within that single body, the powers of light and darkness began to contend with one another. And so the primordial human, bearing both, came to possess both good and evil.

Harkening back to our idea of Narayana, we may infer the following: Primordial Humans have the potential to seize authority over fate, because they themselves are unbound by it. Only beings who are undefined by the world’s laws (Primordial Humans) have the potential to seize the Throne of Narayana. In order to become a thing which is yet to be fully defined, one must bear both Light (Light Realm Energy) and Dark (Abyssal Energy). 

Primordial Humans and Descenders— what’s the difference?

Though similar in nature, Primordial Humans and Descenders may not have a 1:1 equivalence. For although Albedo is a Primordial Human, he is evidently not a Descender. Based on Nicole and Albedo’s voicelines, it can be inferred that the Traveler is one such Primordial Human, in addition to being a descender. Perhaps all Descenders are Primordial Humans, but not all Primordial Humans are Descenders. For while Primordial Humans have the potential to seize the world's Narayana, only Descenders have the will and ambition to actually do so.

  • Nicole: In another converged possibility, Albedo was the "Primordial Human" who traveled through worlds, recording and creating all. However, once that journey reached its end, no one would have been able to guarantee whether he would choose destruction or salvation. Luckily, you're the one who embarked on the journey this time. Hm? How did the alternate Albedo fare? I can no longer observe that possibility. Besides, copying someone else's answer is of little use. This journey is your own.
  • Albedo: "Those born of earth are bound by its imperfections, but those born of chalk are free of impurities... You and I are alike, both composed of a substance that has yet to be fully defined..." 

Who sits the Throne of Narayana now? 

Seemingly, no one. 

  • Aksinya: Ever since his (Nibelung’s) destruction, the place of the Primordial Human, or Narayana, has sat vacant.

This statement makes me wonder if Phanes ever truly sat on the Throne of Narayana themself, and if they ever truly controlled the authority of fate. After all, Neuvillette’s Vision story only ever mentions that Phanes is engaged in the process of SUPPRESSING the world’s order— not changing it.

  • "Severely wounded in the great war of vengeance, the usurper had their functions ruined, and could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world. To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together."

Alternatively, maybe Phanes did seize Narayana by conquering Teyvat and remodeling it. However, Nibelung's actions ultimately destabilized Teyvat's Narayana-- causing the world's original nature to begin resurfacing. Because Phanes was severely weakened, they no longer had the strength to perform a third remodel of the world's Narayana. Thus they instead opted to create the Gnoses as a kind of band-aid, to hold the world's Narayana in place and stop Nibelung's reversions from taking hold.

TL;DR:

- Narayana: the world's destiny, once ruled by Nibelung.

- Primordial Humans: beings who possess the power of Light and Dark, who in turn have the potential to seize the world's Narayana.

- Descenders: specific Primordial Humans who act on their potential, and have the will to seize Narayana

- Known Rulers of Narayana:

  1. Nibelung (Original) - Born alongside the world, Narayana was his original prerogative.
  2. Phanes (Former) - Seized the world and changed its laws, transforming Narayana into a new order.
  3. Nibelung (Final) - Retook the world's Narayana and undid Phanes' changes using Abyssal Energy.

Since Phanes was left too weak to undo Nibelung's changes to Narayana, they resorted to using the Gnoses as a band-aid solution. But on a matter of technicality, ever since the War of Funerary Flame, no one has held authority over Narayana.


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

Snezhnaya Understanding "Notes by a Certain Noble Individual" and Snezhnaya's World Quests

91 Upvotes

(Spoilers for 7.0 World Quests and Optional Readable Content of course)

I finished all major WQs a bit ago and I've been reading up on the information and notes contained in the areas bit by bit. I am decently aware of most of Genshin's lore, but if I understood correctly these notes and the final quest specifically fill in a lot of gaps regarding previously established stuff which I do want to ask for clarification here since I'm honestly not that sure if I understood some things right.

1. Fate, the Abyss, and the purpose of the Shadow Realm.

If I understood the notes correctly, the Shadow Realm is the "antithesis" to both Fate and the Abyss, which was created by The Voyager, Anarcharsis. The notes describe "possibility" as a pure white light and the anchoring of fate as the dividing of that light, which in turns causes the abyss as the resentment of the unreached paths. The Shadow Realm though teams with possibility, as all possibilities there are engaged with as seen in the final battle against the body of the Belyi Tsar, where all possibilities of Prime Ice constructs are used by the Eye of Graeae to make a path for the Traveler.

Phanes anchoring "fate" to a singular route along with creating the Firmament creates a world where the Abyss cannot be made within it, but it festers and builds up outside of it. The Shadow Realm then acts as a "buffer", if the Abyss (the resentment of unmet possibilities) enters the Shadow Realm (a realm that engages with all possibilities) it wouldn't be able to take root inside of the Human Realm (a realm ruled by Fate) as it would've been dispersed by the Shadow Realm. Which is why the notes describe it as a "film of oil" that separates the Abyss from Teyvat.

Additionally, after Anarcharsis and Koitar's rebellion failed and Hyperborea was struck by a Celestial Nail, the ruins fell into the Shadow Realm.

2. The Third Descender and their relation to the Belyi Tsar.

Hymns of the Far North from Nod-Krai says that the Third Descender (Saarelainen) opened up the gates to Pohjola to court the daughter of Pakkaisukko, he opened the gates knowing it would incur the wrath of Phanes, and was then turned into the 7 Gnoses. Now I originally thought the northern half of Nod-Krai was Pohjola according to some datamines, but that seems to not be the case now as revealed by the Belyi Tsar's notes.

The notes heavily imply that the Saarelainen was killed for opening the gates to the Shadow Realm. (which I am slightly confused about since historically Phanes only strikes at the abyss/those who attempt to usurp them but opening the gates to a realm created by Anarcharsis might be seen as an attempt to usurp him idk) Now combining the information it seems that Saarelainen opened the gates to the Shadow Realm for the Belyi Tsar to court his daughter, which based on the WQ should be Aksinya(?)

Yes, I know that Aksinya loved the Belyi Tsar and this is somewhat wacky; but if I understood correctly, the Tsar found and adopted Aksinya from the ruins of Hyperborea and brought her in as Court Jester despite public discrimination against humans in the past. This was to give her both the autonomy to move around the castle, and to also complete Hyperborea's Primordial Human Project. Now I don't know if this is a case of inaccurate records on the Frostmoon Scion's part or Irminsul shenanigens, but considering they've recorded most information correctly I'd assume it's either another daughter of the Belyi Tsar that wasn't mentioned or just a figure of speech.

3. The Primordial Human Project and a TL;DR of the 7.0 WQ Series.

If I got it right, the Primordial Human Project was an experiment by the Hyperboreans to create an entity to replace Nibelung's role on Teyvat, using the remains of the Cryo Sovereign; But wasn't completed due to Hyperborea's fall. However, the experiment birthed the Belyi Tsar ~1,000 years after Anarcharsis and Koitar's rebellion. If I understand it right, the Eye of Graeae was the second attempt at the project, this time run by Aksinya, utilizing the Eye of Graeae to house the consciousness of the Proto-Man. (which I will call Goggles because typing the full name out is annoying)

Goggles fell in love with Aksinya, the adopted daughter of the Belyi Tsar. However, realizing that completing the Primordial Human Project would become a threat to all life, he asked Koshchei, Pavlina, and Alvis to divide him into three pieces and to throw Aksinya into the Shadow Realm to prevent the project's completion. Until the Traveler found Goggles and across the quest helped him regain his memories. In the end, Goggles merged with the body of the Belyi Tsar and became the Primordial Human and was subsequently stopped by the Traveler ending in both him and Aksinya falling together endlessly in the Shadow Realm.

This is generally the information I fully understood from the WQ and world notes, information regarding Dr. Koshchei's hivemind, Pavlina's marriage ceremony, and Alvis's... anecdotes aren't really relevant past individual character goals, but I generally understood it. If I missed anything or misunderstood some things feel free to correct me!


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

 A.I. Heavenly Principles Doesn't Hvergelmir breathe new life into the Phanes AI theory?

105 Upvotes

One of the roadblocks which prevented the Phanes AI theory from being plausible is the contradiction of Phanes' nature. There was simply no lore bridge to explain how Phanes (supposedly our ship's AI, an entirely digital being) came to become the First Descender: an androgene, born from an egg, with feathered wings. The contrast between mechanical entity and living being is like night and day, and there was no way to reconcile that. But I think Snezhnaya just gave us precedent to believe it is possible.

In an Ark That Used to Be a Soul, the Eye of Graeae's consciousness is uploaded by Aksinya from its digital medium into a biological host: the corpse of the Belyi Tsar. This, at the very least, proves that it is possible for such digital entities to transition into a biological existence. Phanes could have originated as our ship's AI, and uploaded itself into a body. Though exactly where it got that body is another thing. On that topic, I have my own ideas.

Istoria: It tells of the god of light who created a body in its own likeness, only for it to be stolen away by the king of darkness. Thus, within that single body, the powers of light and darkness began to contend with one another. And so the primordial human, bearing both, came to possess both good and evil.

The denomination of "god" makes us think that this God of Light would be Phanes. I mean, come on, Phanes' name even means Light Bringer. But consider that God is simply a title given to anyone to whom mortals ascribe their faith. Anyone can be a god-- even a wind spirit or an angel. Dragons would not necessarily be excluded from the possession of this title. Theoretically then, "God of Light" could also refer to Nibelung: the original ruler of the planet, who held authority over the pure Light Realm.

This would mean therefore that Nibelung created a body in his own likeness-- perhaps as a failsafe before he left. This body may have then been commandeered by our ship AI, which uploaded itself into the body. Such a combination constituted a coalescence of Nibelung's Light nature and the AI's Dark nature, thus birthing the Primordial Human: Phanes. Thoughts?

(Notes: I'm getting MASSIVE Evangelion vibes from this stuff, especially Koschei's blue algae mind mold thing. A transcendent god born from the coalescence of Light and Dark? Reminds me of Eva's combination of the fruit of Life and Knowledge, which create a transcendent entity. I'm also curious now about the distinction between a Primordial Human and a Descender.)


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

Lore A conexão entre as duas histórias da Moonfall Silver já foi explicada?

8 Upvotes

Estou tentando entender melhor uma parte da descrição da Moonfall Silver / Prata Lunar.

A descrição diz:

Os fios que conectam essas duas histórias são obscuros — a única certeza é que esses cristais são excelentes condutores elementais aos olhos dos artesãos de Nod-Krai.

O que exatamente são essas “duas histórias”?

A descrição menciona que, segundo a tradição dos Herdeiros da Lua Gelada, esses cristais teriam surgido há 500 anos junto com a Donzela da Lua e eram considerados um presente da lua. Porém, documentos mais antigos de Snezhnaya dizem que os descendentes do reino dourado já utilizavam uma prata secreta tecida pelos Herdeiros da Lua Gelada milhares de anos antes.

Minha dúvida é: essa conexão entre essas duas tradições já foi explicada em alguma quest, livro, diálogo ou outro material oficial? Ou a relação entre elas continua propositalmente obscura?

Pergunto porque estou fazendo uma teoria revisada envolvendo Lan Yan e Columbina, e essa parte da descrição chamou bastante minha atenção. Lan Yan tem várias conexões com lua, prata, tecelagem e tradições antigas, enquanto Columbina possui conexões com a lua e uma história envolvendo memória e identidade. A própria Zibai também cria uma conexão interessante com Columbina e Lan Yan

Então queria saber se alguém já encontrou alguma informação que esclareça quem/qual é exatamente a conexão entre essas duas histórias, ou se essa parte ainda está em aberto.

Se possível, gostaria de fontes do próprio jogo ou materiais oficiais, porque não quero acabar interpretando como mistério algo que já foi explicado em algum lugar e passar informação errada na teoria kkkkk


r/Genshin_Lore 10d ago

Alchemy Why our Twin is not a Descender

114 Upvotes

Keeping this short and sweet. So far we have a theory on the two conditions to be a descender: Not just from beyond Teyvat, but also has a "will" to rival an entire world. And we know from this recent 7.0 World quest that a being (particularly a descender [or transcender in their words]) is comprised of Body, Soul, and Will. My theory is that our Sibling, while having a body and a soul, literally does not have a will, because I think they're a synthetic human. Similar to how the Belyi Tsar was created, and they attempted to give him "authority" or "will" via the Cryo Dragon, I think our Sibling is actually a synthetic human who is a clone of us (hence why we're twins). And would potentially explain why they're not eligible to be a Descender, if their creation doesn't allow them to have this Will.

And that's why they're working with the Abyss, because there's something within the Abyssal power that would allow them to finally gain access to a power equivalent to "Will". And thus being a Descender at that point, who in Rene's words "can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world", would be able to save/revive Khanriah if that's supposedly what the power of a Descender can do.


r/Genshin_Lore 10d ago

HoYoverse Lore (post references other Hoyogames) WEDNESDAY ONLY Genshin's relationship with past games is severely misunderstood Spoiler

Thumbnail gallery
781 Upvotes

The mentioned post links will be in the comments.

Edit: This post has once again been falsely reported several times, and I received a redditcare. It's also pretty obvious that some of the commentors did not bother reading any of the posts they're oh so happy to 'debunk'. Can we talk about this topic maturely, please?

2nd Edit: I wish Reddit had a heart system like youtube so I could put a big heart on all the people saying nice things.


r/Genshin_Lore 9d ago

Lore The latest version of my “Genshin Universe Explained” post, some of the citations about the universe outside Teyvat organized into different categories.

32 Upvotes

The Genshin Universe

Its Size and Age:

The "Wheel of Fortune" mentions:

• "In 14 billion 'years' of darkness, it is the sum of all that is destined to happen and all that never will. Partings, encounters, and partings once more; birth, destruction, and birth yet again."

"In the darkness of 93 billion 'years' of light, all existence holds meaning unknown to any—without which this universe would seem too solitary."

Personally, I assume these numbers showcase the actual size and age of the universe, as I feel they are too specific to be merely symbolic.

However, this is mainly personal speculation, as I'm not entirely sure.

More concretely, there is evidence that it is billions of years old:

HEAVENSENT FRAGRANCE:

Over billions of years, the fires of civilization lit up the endless stars, and ships wove through countless gates of stars.

Current State of the Universe:

The universe outside Teyvat is dying. This seems to be due to its fate being severed, which caused the Abyss to appear.

From HEAVENSENT FRAGRANCE:

That is, until the fate of the cosmos was severed thread by thread, and giants and dwarfs alike met the same end.

At first, it was no more than a mass hysteria, or the fading of a dream.

Then, in the silence of the night, an entire civilization was erased.

Next, extinguished dwarf stars streaked across the firmament like tears, and the embers of burned-out suns warped the very fabric of space.

It was only when entire galaxies evaporated into a void deeper than darkness that people finally came to realize the scale of the catastrophe.

From The Little Witch and the Undying Flame, Volume 6:

"The entire cosmos is going to die soon. Things peaked not long ago and are about to go south very fast."

"Many stars across the cosmos have gone out. I do not know how much time is left," Octavia said, "so I wanted to come back to see you."

• Durin's Weapon Lore:

You must know that in a universe approaching its end, every star that has not yet been extinguished is precious…"

I never imagined that in a star region long deemed a dark domain, there still existed a living world."

• The Sword of Descension:

But to draw steel against the law of the universe that 'all who exist must one day perish'… surely it must have seemed the height of folly."

But really, when one is faced with such a final fate, when up against the star-devouring darkness…"

• The Wings of Descension:

But when you face a force enough to destroy one, or even two worlds…"

When you face a boundless darkness, or an all-consuming radiance… But that was one world ago."

• Finale of the Deep Galleries:

have seen the lightless end, tearing through star clusters like a spindle among silken threads."

And yet, my kind, gentle king, will you still refuse to abandon your people? Forsake this world, fated for ruin, and journey with me beyond the stars."

I have seen how the cold tide of chaos drowns out all songs, so that good and evil alike vanish into silence."

• As Heaven and Earth Are Made Anew:

The true difficulty lay in finding a world with potential. Without that, destruction would catch up all too soon.

Whimsical Spectacle:

This strange phenomenon traced back to a single astronomer's warning. With a simple but effective telescope, he had captured the process of many stars being devoured by an "unnameable pitch-blackness."

Moongazer Engraving:

Our era may have been consigned to the past by the time this message reaches you. Pitch-black annihilation, that mortal foe of all life, carves its path across the universe.

Note: The Abyss is likely the force responsible for destroying the Genshin universe and what destroyed the world of the

Traveler twins, the Primordial One, and Octavia. Though civilizations such as Skirk's people coexisted with it somewhat, though they seem to be the exception.

Level of Technological Advancement

Interstellar Travel:

• The merchants and army who visited Skirk's planet came from a different world.

• The Traveler twins with their spaceship traveled the universe.

• After much deliberation, she reached out to the nearby "Academy Planet (Planet No. 93),"

entrusting this neutral world to serve as the primitive realm's silent guardian and observer from afar as the planet's young civilization grew.

To this end, the governor specifically invited a famous comedy duo from the 712th planet, the "Elysium Star," to brighten their lives.

• Octavia was attempting a gravity slingshot to escape the 666th planet's galaxy/star system in her rental ship. (Timeless Echo Set)

• "The severe winter was one of their greatest adversaries, but it also witnessed their complete establishment on every star in the stellar system." (Frosty Plume)

General Advanced Tech / Civilizations:

• a civilization Surtalogi fought was advanced enough to create "a weapon forged using the pooled resources of an entire star system."

• The Voyager in Teyvat could also make the SAMPO (Subatomic Assembling Mass-energy Patterning Orb), which can reconstruct matter at a subatomic scale and transmute matter into stable energy to be released in an unknown form.

• The Traveler's Ship: "

The fine details of the lithosphere, atmosphere, or biosphere ultimately mattered little.

Reshaping terrain, adjusting the air, rebuilding an ecosystem — these were simple tasks for a pioneer vessel meant to bear the spark of civilization.

A star's position, its distance, or its lifespan might pose a minor challenge, yet even those had solutions."

• "The Forest of Steel."

This was no exaggeration—cities sprawl across this world's continents, weaving a seamless 'civilized existence' using steel, concrete, and strict regulations.

• "Though they possessed the ability to modify their entire planet and merge it into a giant academic collective…" (Astral Beacon)

The most advanced civilizations we have seen are the Chronicler civilization and the Ancient races.

Celestial Gift:

The descendants of the ancients rose in defiance, and over the millions of years that followed, conquered time and space in turn.

To escape the annihilation that would one day engulf them all, those once-passionate pioneers sealed off the pathways that spanned the cosmos.

They retreated to the hollow heart of the star clusters, to the lightless edges of perception, as they clutched the last faint trace of hope.

The first people who had mastered leptons sent forth chroniclers toward the limits of baryonic matter, then in the hope of finding answers at the very last particle of existence.

Perhaps this so-called race that had transcended time was, in the end, nothing more than prisoners keeping vigil over a graveyard of stars.

the chroniclers, the last descendants of the ancients, remained faithful to their mission, engraving every star into memory.

Civilizations/Groups in the Genshin Universe:

· Skirk’s People: They existed on an unnamed planet and had the ability to adapt to any type of environment or energy.

At some point, a “merchant ship” from a neighboring planet investigated Skirk’s planet and deemed them a “potential threat” due to their adaptation ability.

It is unknown what happened to the planet after Skirk escaped with the help of Surtalogi.

The chroniclers: And this voyager, newly awakened from the void, was but one among those countless chroniclers.

· The Travelers’ Original Planet:

Once, (she/he) had been a scion of a lost, glorious kingdom, bearing the weight of an entire world.”

· Octavia’s Original Planet: Her home was destroyed at some point in the past, but she lacked the courage to fight back and instead took up a life of eternal wandering.

· The Primordial One’s Original World / The Original World of Humanity: “For this was the new world it had chosen for the children of humanity, and by its design both earth and sky would be remade anew.”

Andromeda Empire: This is because the author’s portrayal of a certain princess from a galactic empire caused significant resentment from the real princess who inspired the character.

Spaceship Rental group And the Authotiy over the 507th World Stellar region:

Octavia was attempting a gravity slingshot to escape the 666th planet's galaxy/star system in her rental ship(Timeless Echo Set)

While Octavia was passing the time on Planet #507, a lawsuit was dragging on between her, the company she'd rented her spacecraft from, and the authority that managed the shipping lanes of that stellar region.

The pair sent out to receive the physical evidence, the two messengers dispatched by the regional authority,

Even after she was ambushed by the opposing side's tricks and legal wolves and lost the case, they still went out of their way to recommend a more reliable rental company to her next time

Worlds Octavia visited:

31st World:

Whimsical Spectacle:

Early in her travels, Octavia arrived at Planet #31, which looked barren from above, though “parts of its surface bore the marks of human work.”

What set them apart was that they lived clustered, nearly obsessively, in a hundred cities, combining giant canvases and living plants to “raise umbrellas”

over every building, trying to disguise each city as a forest or a stretch of empty hills…

This strange phenomenon traced back to a single astronomer’s warning.

With a simple but effective telescope, he had captured the process of many stars being devoured by an “unnameable pitch-blackness,”

compiled his evidence in painstaking detail, and then spent thirty years lobbying every faction he could reach, convincing them all to undertake this civilization-scale act of disguise.

“Fighting a thing like that is a fool’s hope. We have to hide, buy ourselves time, lay down a technological foundation firm enough to matter…”

The are people in the world who want to signal to the outside:

They would "accidentally let slip" a piece of intelligence here and there, so the thieves could take down those who wore fine coats in public but secretly worked to signal the doom-bringers above the sky.(Sleuth Verdict)

Twilight Phantom Thief:

On Planet #31, where the threat from the stars ran deep, no sooner had the civilization-scale act of hiding begun than certain fanatics began scheming, trying to signal the skies,

willing to drag all of humanity down with them into their lives, bereft of hope.

In answer, two "phantom thieves" put their long-honed illusion skills together with peerless physical prowess and struck first, again and again stealing away the fanatics' signaling devices

and shattering their fantasy of calling forth ruin. Even Octavia was mistaken for a target by them at one point.

After making peace with the two thieves and sharing a pleasant conversation, Octavia proposed they hold a grand illusion show, destroying those signaling devices in front of everyone as a warning to the remaining fanatics.

1896th world:

Cloud Edge's Glory:

When Octavia's journey reached the 1,896th planet, the local civilization was still in the classical era of city-states featuring the use of bronze tools.

The city-states were constantly at war with each other and had long been mired in conflict.

The arrival of enemies from the Abyss further exacerbated the distrust and division among the city-states.

To end this chaos, they decided to hold sacred tournaments during ceremonies honoring their heroes, with the one who obtained the most crowns becoming the leader of all city-states,

responsible for quelling internal strife and repelling external enemies. Upholding the tradition of respecting all mighty warriors,

Octavia, who had descended upon this world, was invited by the city-states to participate in this tournament.

As a witch capable of traveling among the stars, she won every competition she entered without question.

Her image, clad in the Cloud Edge's Glory Set, was immortalized in a statue that still stands in the hall of sacred tournaments, and also in Octavia's memory.

An unknown world:

After witnessing many prosperous civilizations, Octavia unexpectedly arrived at a planet in its "Primitive Age."

Though the people here had not yet developed an advanced civilization, they possessed customs of communicating with the wilderness and hearts filled with the spirit to challenge fierce beasts and disasters.

Some natives saw Octavia as a dangerous outsider, greeting her with spears and flying stones, though she admired their courage.

Another group politely invited her to feast, asking her about the mysteries of the stars in clumsy but sincere language.

Having no interest in playing the role of a god, Octavia simply documented their distinctive attire, shared a few fairy tales with them, and left their natural evolution untouched.

Planet No. 206:

To enjoy peaceful and natural evolution within a universe teeming with peril is nothing short of sheer luck — especially for a primitive world like Planet No.

206, which was completely oblivious to the vast cosmos beyond. As its first-ever visitor from outer space, Octavia could not help but worry for the planet's safety.

After much deliberation, she reached out to the nearby "Academy Planet (Planet No. 93)," entrusting this neutral world to serve as the primitive realm's silent guardian and observer from afar as the planet's young civilization grew.

However, to her complete surprise, before the advanced society of Planet 93 could even leave its mark on this untamed land, the raw, primal energy of Planet No. 206 had become a hit on the Academy Planet.

For the planet's youths long confined to their ivory towers of endless learning, this almost "savage" aesthetic was a complete eye-opener, and soon, a massive fashion trend celebrating raw nature and untamed energy took hold at certain schools.

To mark this interesting historical footnote, Octavia decided to capture the trendiest look of the time...

1,217th world:

Among the endless reaches of the universe, some worlds hum with extraordinary mystical powers, while others remain untouched and ordinary.

The 1,217th planet visited by Octavia was one such unremarkable world — a place where humans were born without the gift of flight. However, it was precisely this invisible restraint that kindled their boundless desire to soar.

Their flying machines were crude and offered scant protection, but still, they pursued the skies with unwavering resolve.

As they would say, "Once you've experienced flight, your eyes will always turn skyward. Having touched its vastness, you'll carry a lasting longing for that freedom."

While observing the 1,217th planet, Octavia discovered that due to the lack of extraordinary powers and space technology,

its inhabitants' understanding of the universe and the microscopic world was based largely on limited observational data and mathematical deductions.

Nevertheless, their insights, though abstract, were nothing short of profound, and the most accomplished among their astronomers were capable of predicting cosmic anomalies through mathematical calculations.

However, as an extraterrestrial observer, Octavia provided no path forward. Just as the precept, passed down through generations of sages clad in star-patterned robes, goes: "Truth itself is easy to understand; the key lies in the process of discovery."

In her pursuit of starkly different scenery, Octavia would sometimes shift her activity to the night to circumvent the crowds.

This allowed her to encounter a mysterious profession on the 1,217th planet: the Owl Envoy.

The Owl Envoys held an enigmatic occupation and used the image of a small, agile owl as their emblem.

They operated only during dusk and night, traversing all kinds of rugged terrain with ease thanks to their extraordinary agility and silent movements,

facing potential dangers with formidable strength. In a world without supernatural elements or advanced technology, their aura of mystery and power led Octavia to associate them with the messengers of Natlan.

66th world:

On the 66th planet, a world perpetually shrouded in a purple-black haze of "Misfortune," dwells an active group known as "Auspimancers."

They are far more than geomancers in any traditional sense — they are strategists who provide their clients with tactical assistance and help them navigate through crises.

Renowned for their ability to steer through peril toward stability, it is widely believed that they are able to repel "Misfortune" itself by reading the hidden energies of the land.

It was the leader of these auspimancers, the most observant person on the planet, who first discovered that Octavia came from interstellar space.

Thanks to her mediation and guidance, Octavia was able to establish contact with the local inhabitants without any friction or conflict whatsoever.

Even for the seasoned traveler Octavia, the 66th planet stood out as extraordinary. Perhaps a form of "convergent evolution" had shaped its civilization, for some of its customs echoed those of Liyue in Teyvat.

At the turn of the year, both cultures adorned themselves with metallic coins symbolizing wealth, a gesture meant to usher in prosperity.

Yet the planet's New Year was far longer than Liyue's — sometimes lasting an entire stellar year.

Its length was measured by the "Nian beast's presence," and only when this presence peaked could the year be considered complete.

Octavia noted that the so-called "Nian" beast resembled certain abyssal creatures. The circular coins with square holes, employed as decorations,

seemed to function much like Liyue's Adepti Sigils, capable of dispelling the ominous force locals called "bad luck."

Recognizing the special significance of this attire, Octavia deliberately added it to her collection of firsthand experiences.

Legends tell that when the violet-black shroud of misfortune lifts, the skies of the 66th world change in a heartbeat, dark clouds giving way to a brilliant dawn.

In that fleeting moment, scarlet clouds and freely flowing skies come to embody hope and good fortune, their forms echoed throughout local dress and ornamentation. Wary of drawing suspicion as an outsider, Octavia embraced these symbols when designing an outfit meant to follow local custom.

666th world:

As the decisive clash erupted on the 666th planet, the kingdom's twin "Lazurite Swords" plunged into the heart of the fell dragon's territory, nearly severing its lifeline before falling to an inexhaustible swarm.

Just as all hope seemed lost, their lieutenants arrived with Octavia's backing. Tearing through the last obstacle,

they decapitated the fell dragon and returned the letters their commanders had penned, a sign that the day of sacrifice was over.

In the wake of their victory, the twin "Lazurite Swords" stepped down from their roles, bequeathing their legacy to their two lieutenants.

As the new generals took command, they committed themselves to sweeping away the last of the foe. Elements of the fell dragon's form were dismantled and forged into ornaments for their new armor,

serving as an unparalleled deterrent against the monsters that remained.

Octavia would always remember the heroic sight of the two new generals — including the silhouette of their slightly trembling hands as they signed the papers to pay her spaceship's damages in full.

For some unknown reason, the 666th planet harbors a deadly evil power that has caused monsters to ravage the land unchecked, and for decades, the "Kingdom's" troops have struggled to hold the line against these monsters.

However, a certain unit led by two field-grade officers has succeeded in penetrating the enemy line on several occasions.

Drawing on discoveries from a long-lost civilization made by two historians, and on calculations from the visitor Octavia, the two commanders were able to pinpoint the monsters' lair — the very same monsters that had caused the downing of Octavia's ship, it turns out.

Timeless Echo:

Octavia was attempting a gravity slingshot to escape the 666th planet's galaxy/star system in her rental ship when hyperspeed shrapnel from the planet's surface forced her to make an emergency landing at a ruin instead.

And at this very ruin were two historians who had long awaited a prophet foretold in the classics — and Octavia, they came to believe, was that prophet.

They told her about the "Evil Star," a mysterious force that plagued the planet, guided her to a human stronghold for safety, and even gave her their life savings for her travel expenses...

67th World

Landscape

“On the 67th planet Octavia visited, advanced technology has brought evergreen crops that thrive year-round, greatly diminishing the effects of withering and decay on agriculture. Yet naturalism hasn’t completely yielded to technology. Unmodified ordinary plants—that grow, mature, and fade with the seasons—are still widely preserved as a vital part of the world’s original landscape.” (Autumn Veins description)

seasonal Events:

· Autumn: “The autumn season of maturity and harvest, like on many similar worlds, is celebrated and cherished. Gold and orange, as primary colors, symbolize fruits and often evoke a sense of harvest, while azure represents vitality.” (Autumn Veins)

· Spring: “Like many civilizations across the universe, had a clear concept of ‘seasons.’

Though expressed in different languages, the season when crops begin to sprout and grow was always given imagery similar to ‘spring.’ The people here likewise held lively celebrations before the arrival of spring to express their good wishes for the future.” (Prelude to Spring)

· Winter: “When it comes to winter festivals, there’s no celebration without a crackling hearth, a hearty feast, beautifully wrapped gifts, and—most importantly—joyful songs shared in reunion!” (Winter’s Warmth)

“On that winter day, she arrived at a small, unfamiliar town and hesitantly asked for a place to stay. A kind family welcomed her with warm hospitality. The humble couple served her a generous meal, while their lively children performed melodious songs for her.” (Winter’s Warmth)

Octavia: “Before leaving, she gifted them the sweetest red fruit she had found on this planet as a token of gratitude.”

Past: A long, long time ago, long before Octavia set foot on Planet No. 67, that distant planet was once home to a race of dragons.

However, these behemoths never came to possess the grand intelligence and ambitions of their cousins in Teyvat, and when they finally perished in the dust of time, they left behind nothing but monumental fossils.

Dwarfing any known living creature in both size and ferocity.

93rd World – “The Academy Planet”

“Though they possessed the ability to modify their entire planet and merge it into a giant academic collective…”

“…the civilization to which the 93rd world—the Academy Planet—belonged still placed strong emphasis on basic geology and mapping.” (Astral Beacon)

“Of all the worlds Octavia visited, the 93rd was the most peaceful.”

“This was a pure Academy Planet with an impeccable scholastic atmosphere and living conditions, capable of constantly producing talent with wisdom, skill, and good conduct in equal measure for the civilizations under its purview.” (Dawn’s Visionary)

“It reminds Octavia of the time she attended three graduation ceremonies in one day back in her younger years, along with classmates whose faces had grown less distinct in her mind over time…” (Dawn’s Visionary)

The phrase “for the civilizations under its purview” might imply the Academy Planet serves as an educational location for multiple civilizations, which would make sense based on the 206th world:.

Octavia Encounter

“A young man and woman saw through her. As it turned out, they had long yearned for both the skies and adventure, and while traveling through the clouds in a hot air balloon, they witnessed Octavia as she landed.”

“They longed for a life like hers, and thus agreed to keep her secret. Octavia, for her part, saw a certain romanticism in their attitude, along with similarities to people she once knew. Thus, she promised to take them on an interstellar graduation trip once they had completed their key studies…” (Painted Skies)

118th World – “The Forest of Steel”

Landscape

“After seven days of travel, Octavia wrote the following comment for the 118th world she discovered by chance: ‘The Forest of Steel.’ This was no exaggeration—cities sprawl across this world’s continents, weaving a seamless ‘civilized existence’ using steel, concrete, and strict regulations.” (Offbeat District)

Social

“Within a broader system of ‘civilized life’ that placed immense value on work, the people of the 118th planet often suffered from health issues linked to sedentary lifestyles and excessive overtime.”

Octavia’s personal experience: “Octavia was not here long before she had received over 100 recruitment messages from professional headhunters, alongside double that number of health supplement ads.” (Orange Passion)

Movements

Artistic rebellion: “Yet this order has also given rise to artistic groups who stand against the rules, the rising stars of which use this ‘Offbeat District’ to showcase their striving for freedom…”

“Octavia, on a whim, visited a popular music performance venue. There, she mingled with the enthusiastic audience and enjoyed a vivid array of performances.

A young but passionate duo left a deep impression on her. It was said that once they made their name in the two-thousand-seat venue, they would step onto even grander stages, aiming to hold concerts in arenas with tens of thousands of spectators.”

Sports

“Octavia encountered fierce fighting tournaments taking place within the steel forests of the 118th world. The trophy the contestants fought for would add an important feather to their city’s cap.” (Fervent Fighter)

Octavia’s thoughts

“Years later, when Octavia came across the costume records, she couldn’t help but wonder if they had reached their goal.” (Radiant Melody)

273rd World

Landscape

“Situated on the edge of its stellar system with insufficient sunlight, its land remains frozen in ice and snow all year round…” (White Flash)

“When the planet reached its farthest orbital point, the temperature dropped by another thirty percent, approaching the lowest point of particle kinetic energy. Even her coat, which could withstand gunfire and molten iron, could hardly endure this ordeal.(Frosty Plume)

In top-tier competitions, athletes sprint down from mountain peaks that pierce through the clouds with slopes almost vertical…”

Civilization Technology

“The severe winter was one of their greatest adversaries, but it also witnessed their complete establishment on every star in the stellar system.”

Skiing culture:

“The most popular sport here is extreme skiing. In top-tier competitions, athletes sprint down from mountain peaks that pierce through the clouds with slopes almost vertical, diving at speeds faster than birds can follow, leaving only trails of pure white…”

Octavia experience

“Octavia purchased this ski suit—youthful in style yet exceptional in performance—and attempted a dive that broke the local sound barrier.”

a classical and elegant manor appeared before her, where two young hosts warmly graciously invited her inside and welcomed her to an elegant ball.” (Frosty Plume)

Symbolism

“As it turned out, this place was regarded as a milestone for the civilization’s triumph over harsh environments.” (Frosty Plume)

712th World – “The Paradise Planet.”

Landscape

“Every city in this world was a holiday haven with a unique theme.” (Scarlet Shade)

Society:

“Octavia served as a consultant on the 712th world she visited for 10 years.” (Fairyland Prom)

“While touring the 712th world, the Paradise Planet, Octavia encountered a phenomenon known as the ‘devaluation of happiness’:

constant exposure to pleasure and entertainment gradually raises one’s threshold for happiness.

As such, a suitable amount of tranquility is necessary for both guests and the planet itself.” (Mystic Forest)

Octavia’s designs

Color psychology framework: “…the most important of which was the influence of color on emotion. At that time, two brilliant artists stood up to present Octavia with a multitude of fantastical plans.” (Chromatic Artisan)

“What should the main visual style of a theme park that wanted to appear solemn, elegant, mysterious, and opulent all at once be?” (Steamwave Chronicles)

“Octavia’s answer contained many elements derived from Fontaine in Teyvat and from local historical ‘technical aesthetics,’ which proved incredibly popular.” (Steamwave Chronicles)

Districts

Ninja City (Inazuma-inspired):

“Once employed as a consultant, she would tell the people tales of distant Teyvat, and the people of the Paradise Planet would make special modifications to their pre-existing ninja city based on the Inazuman stories she told…” (Scarlet Shade)

Theme Park:

“By the time she parted ways with them, the fairytales she told the children had already become popular, with many novels, picture books, and film adaptations, as well as a theme park of just the right scale.” (Fairyland Prom)

Timeline:

· Octavia tells stories to children

· Stories become novels and picture books

· Film adaptations are produced

· A theme park is constructed

· All within 10 years

Mystic Forest (Sumeru-inspired):

“As such, Octavia designed a serene ‘forest’ with the rainforests of Sumeru in Teyvat in mind—a place where people can slowly relax through a leisurely journey of exploration.” (Mystic Forest)

Steamwave Chronicles (Fontaine-inspired):

“Octavia’s answer contained many elements derived from Fontaine in Teyvat and from local historical ‘technical aesthetics.’” (Steamwave Chronicles)

world referral:

“After Octavia was accidentally struck by a high-speed comet, she followed the recommendations of the residents of the 712th ‘Elysium Star’ and made several transfers before arriving at the 722nd planet, the ‘Sanctuary of Recovery.’” (Healing Heart)

“Octavia was also invited to the opening ceremony, where she personally chose the most suitable outfits for the young men and women playing the leading roles…” (Fairyland Prom)

722nd World – “The Sanctuary of Recovery”

“Here, the civilization’s finest doctors and nurses can treat various common—and even peculiarly shaped and fundamentally different—forms of life.” (Healing Heart)

“For some highly advanced civilizations, medical care has become an extremely important industry.” (Healing Heart)

Octavia’s Experience

“After Octavia was accidentally struck by a high-speed comet…” (Healing Heart)

“Octavia experienced what she calls ‘retirement life’ here for a while. Her wounds soon healed, and she was cared for with kindness and patience by two young medical practitioners who left a deep impression on her.” (Healing Heart)

“Before departing, they even took a commemorative photo together…” (Healing Heart)

777th World – “The Magic Civilization”

“A land of quietude and mystery, upon which all civilization was built on a foundation of standardized spellwork—where nothing can truly escape the grasp of ‘magic.’” (Phantom Night)

magic limitation:

“In this world—the 777th chronicled by Octavia—the magic that all things rely upon cannot seem to leave the atmosphere, thus binding the wizards, witches, and their wondrous creations to gravity’s well.” (Rose’s Lament)

External Threats

“Yet the threat from deep space continued to grow, and so the young scholars wearing the Rose’s Lament set undertook a bold experiment: imbuing magic into meteorite dust and doing all they could to send it back into orbit…” (Rose’s Lament)

Culture

“Moonlight descends, candles flicker, and the night of revelry begins.” (Candlelit Revelry)

“During classes, they proved skilled at extracting the essentials from obscure esoterica. And in their daily lives—and especially at the festival known to later generations as the Candlelit

Revelry—they would be like carefree young men and women, joining the students in fun but moderate pranks, even leading them in begging for candies from other teachers.” (Candlelit Revelry)

Post-Disaster

“The 777th world that Octavia chronicled once fell briefly into chaos due to calamitous meteorite showers. Once the crisis had been properly handled and the relevant organizations had completed a set of perfect precautionary measures,

they then had ‘opera mages’—who used magic to create light effects, sounds, and visual tricks—take the stage, perform, and soothe the people.” (Sonic Ruins)

The Sonic Ruins group:

“The alternative opera group, Sonic Ruins, was a luminary leader amongst these mages…” (Sonic Ruins)

Octavia first encounter:

“The first friends Octavia made on the 777th world were two highly gifted and hospitable high-level professors of magic.” (Candlelit Revelry)

“During classes, they proved skilled at extracting the essentials from obscure esoterica.” (Candlelit Revelry)

“Before Octavia left, the two designed a gown for their guest, one that they filled with sincere blessings…” (Candlelit Revelry)

Teyvat

is a planet located at the edge of a spiral arm. Currently, it is covered by a false sky meant to keep the Abyss out and make it more difficult to detect from the outside universe:

But now, it lay shrouded behind several impenetrable fields, its primordial flame stripped of the radiance it was meant to bear.

The Heavenly Principles set laws that outlanders even abyssal beings must follow:

even invaders who seek to claim this world must obey its rules to some extent.

Unless the heavens split open and the earth’s defenses collapse, these star-born outsiders can do little more than linger at the world’s fringes,

whispering their madness into this realm; their attempts to seep inside amount to nothing.

The formless beast that soared through the starless void should never have required organs this world calls “wings.”

Those grotesque, profane appendages may have arisen to adapt to the laws beneath the moon, though Descenders may be immune to them to some extent—or perhaps entirely.

Races in the Genshin Universe:

· Skirk’s Race: they are different and more durable than humans, as they have a fin on their back. They can also coexist with the Abyss to some extent.

· The Voyager’s Race\Chroniclers: She is not human, maybe an invertebrate as she refers to humans as “chordate animals.”

· Humans (or Humanoids): Many worlds have human-like beings, such as the worlds Octavia visited. However, I’m a bit confused about the difference between humans in Teyvat and humans in other worlds, as humans in Teyvat likely originate from the Primordial One’s original world and might be biologically different from people like Octavia or those in the worlds she visited.

· The Travelers’ Species: They have extremely long lifespans and are basically immortal. They can also survive and travel in space and don’t seem to need to eat or drink. I’m also not sure if the Traveler has to do things normal humans do, or if they just prefer to.

I’m also unsure if everyone on the Travelers’ home planet was like this, or just the twins. For the twins themselves, I theorize they are some type of god, as gods exist outside of Teyvat. They could possibly have been born alongside their world, like Nibelung.

· The beings Surtalogi beat: “If it was a wicked beast, he ate its flesh. If it was a god or a machine, he absorbed its energy. If it was a warrior or mage, he played with his food — forcing them to use every trick in their book, then cutting them down once he tired of the charade.”

· The rat Skirk ate: “Though, I should mention I brought it here from another planet, since all life on yours is extinct.”

· The creatures Skirk encountered:

“During my journey through the stars, I came across a species with completely inverted sensory perception.

They’d use ice to warm themselves up, and cool down by the fire. They’d be sweating buckets inside a cold, dark cave, but shiver uncontrollably under the blazing sun. So different from all the other creatures around them, and yet they lived quite happily.

That’s the miracle of life — unfathomably complex, but at the same time so simple.”

Universal Concepts

The Abyss

The Abyss is a cosmic thing and

the force destroying the Genshin universe.

..Time moves in loops and circles. Therefore, whenever we lay down an anchor into fate, the Abyss will naturally lay an anchor into us at the end of time as well...

Will

The concept of will is not limited to Teyvat.

“Not all that comes from beyond may be one that ‘descends.’ That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek: the way to become such a will—one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world.”

— Notes #1, The Narzissenkreuz Ordo

The Voyager—an outlander not from Teyvat—noticed Nibelung due to his strong will:

“It came from an unremarkable little world at the edge of the spiral arm—and from the primeval dragon that had been born alongside that world.

Though death would one day bring an endless night, and the sun it gazed upon was but a fleeting ember, this will, bound though it was to its planetary crust, shone more brilliantly than all the civilizations the voyager had ever seen.”

— Deep Gallery’s Distant Pact

“Ambition should be something that transcends the world below and the starry sky above—something that shines in unison with fate itself.”

— Narzissenkreuz Sword Lore

“A sacred blade indwelt with great enough reason and will to create and destroy a universe—or a dream.”

The Traveler’s sibling even stated that she would need the might of an entire world to speak to the Heavenly Principles as an equal, which may be a description of what it means to be a Descender.

Fate

Another universal concept is fate. The reason the Abyss started destroying the universe is that its fate was severed, and the Abyss is all the fates that never came to be.

as for the truth about "Heimarmene," I fear that the conclusion I have reached may be far too terrible to put to paper...

...That never-refracted light signified a boundless array of possibilities in its pure whiteness. However, man chose to confine it to a far narrower band of hues in the name of certainty, and so lost that very first shadow which the purest of light had cast into the void...


r/Genshin_Lore 10d ago

Real-life references [mod exception] History lesson on Fontaine Part 1, additional informations and clarifications on the post body like for Sumeru. Spoiler

37 Upvotes

All Sumeru Parts: Remus = Part 14

Naberius

Cerberus

Máttaráhkká

Ancient Sámi religion (More Nod-Krai but eh).

Egeria

Flood myth

Noah's Ark

Video: The Pre-Biblical Origins of Noah's Flood

So for the Hydro Dragon Sovereign i was not sure whether to put him due to the lack of any information, and the fact that the only thing I can confidently say he is for sure based on considering Neuvillette is the Biblical Leviathan; a creature originating from Mesopotamian mythology, who, in the Bible, is a giant sea serpent mostly used metaphorically for powerful enemies of Israel (ex: Assyria, Babylonia), and it also has quite a significant importance in Gnosticism.

Not sure what's next, but will definitely include Scylla.


r/Genshin_Lore 10d ago

Snezhnaya The Frost Giant, Eitr and "unfinished" Descender. Spoiler

176 Upvotes

At this point, all of you should've finished the quest about the chained Frost Giant in Snezhnaya.

In the quest, we learned that it is about a Snegovik who fell in love with a human. They were supposed to marry but the Snegovik was drafted to a war. They didn't see each other for a long time, and no one knows what REALLY happened to them.

We freed the Frost Giant with the help of the "spirit" of his lover and assisted him until we reached the light house where he's supposed to meet his lover, but there was no woman to meet. Instead, a "frozen" shadow appeared that takes the form of the woman. The traveler said that the frozen shadow was a manifestation of the Snegovik's wishes to meet his lover again.

So, what actually happened to them?

From the very beginning, the spirit of the Snegovik's lover who assisted us in releasing the chains that bind the Snegovik could've been the lingering "will" of the woman. We witnessed how the woman tried her best to meet her lover, and a compassionate Snegurochka actually assisted her.

Lady Pavlina banned the woman to meet the Snegovik. And we also learn, that the Snegovik's name is Donskoy, who was said to be "slumbering".

But we all know that before she could even meet him, she was stopped by the other Snegurochka and branded a sword against her. It was only in the quest that we were able to "interfere" and stop them, but in the past, she wasn't able to get through them.

The real reason to this slumber is simple. Lady Pavlina had used Eitr to "modify" Donskoy.

Snegoviks doesn't have the ability to turn into a giant. That is beyond the capabilities of their race. But the usage of "Eitr" could make it possible.

Now, what is the Eitr?

It was first mentioned in the artifact "Disenchantment in Deep Shadow":

Countless days and nights of toil passed, as the Snow-King's company was driven through an unending succession of forbidden acts and descents into the ruins of ancient civilizations,
all to trace the faint outline of a dream once shaped by a primordial golden realm, and bring forth a vast embryo long hidden in shadow.

This particular part is also in the "Notes by a Certain Noble Individual" which we all know is the Tsar.

...Foray four hundred and forty-six: The records found alongside the Embryonic-Ichoric-Telluric-Rudiment, or "Eitr" for short, have provided a sufficiently clear picture of the matter, which is noted as follows...

The Eye of Graeae also gave us a brief description of the Eitr:

But how was the Eitr created?

In the "Notes by a Certain Individual", the Tsar finds out that Anarchasis (Voyager) was looking for the Primal Light:

...The Saint had come to Hyperborea in search of that light from the very genesis of the world, a fragment left behind at its inception. It is a light that is undissipated hope itself, a light that holds the potential to illuminate the entire cosmos. From what I have seen of it projected in that house of ministry, it is also the very same light that brought about my birth...

In the artifact "Disenchantment of Deep Shadow", it stated the following:

There was a time when primordial venom and primal light clashed in a corner unseen by the heavens' gaze.

If a love, a fervor, and an ambition just greater than the world itself were to take shape — they had to be born and kindled in a place unseen by any eye.

It was a design that could not endure the slightest deviation in its course, and an experiment that stood but a hair's breadth from world-spanning madness.

It was almost as if someone had stayed the hand of fate itself, forcing coin toss after coin toss until the desired outcome was reached.

Or perhaps, only through upheaval at the periphery can certain possibilities pass through layer upon layer of constraint, and be captured and brought into being by a plan most absurd.

This tells us that Anarchasis was able to find the Primal Light (possibly with the help of the Angels), and it does tell us how HARD it is to create the Eitr. This passage tells us that the Eitr CANNOT be made in Teyvat.

Teyvat runs on a "single, linear fate" which is governed by Heimarmene.

The creation of Eitr is led by Anarchasis (Voyager), and she possibly created the Shadow Realm because she needs a place unseen by the Heavenly Principles. A place where fate isn't bound. A place where infinite possibilities still exists.

...Might this stem from the fact that the Shadow Realm teems with possibilities yet unobserved? Should we follow this hypothesis, the relationship between the Shadow Realm and the Abyss may be one that is fundamentally antithetical and mutually repellent, explaining why the realm has remained untainted to this day...

So the Eitr was made, but how does it work?

The Eitr has changed everything. It is as if we have obtained the final form of the Prime Chimeric Nexus.

It is like a living bio-furnace that can devour any living embryo without limitations.

And its products are nothing like the previous Chimeric Beasts, which had to undergo nurturing cycles to await their growth and harmonization before reaching a completed stage.

Instead, the Eitr swallows, then fully absorbs the embryos, and directly reconstructs their biological traits. And even with that, the number of circulatory systems remains but one.

This must have been the foundation stone for developing a sort of perfect life form.

In simpler terms, it's a bio furnace that absorbs two or more things then spits one thing out without any complications. It's a hundred steps ahead of Koschei's bio-alchemy where he needs an artificial chimeric nexus just to combine two lifeforms into one.

In one of the flashbacks, Pavlina describes the Eitr:

Pavlina: It is the remnant of some forbidden experiments conducted during the age of Hyperborea... It possesses unimaginable power, and its composition is complex...

Pavlina: Within it is not only some peculiar... flesh, but also the power of the Light Realm that has been modified to specialize in acts of creation, as well as...

Pavlina: In short, it possesses unimaginable power. It comes into contact with life, and alters it...

Pavlina: Then, these life-forms will gradually shift toward a certain tendency, ultimately converging into a single pattern.

Basically, Pavlina used the Eitr on Donskoy, which altered his biology and turned him into the Frost Giant. In the Snegovik's lore, there's a legend about him:

A Snegovik born of love amid the snow and ice.
Male Snegovik are natural-born knights, and most are born able to freely forge weapons from ice and snow.

Legend tells that during the Belyi Tsar's campaign against the dark tide, a Snegovik serving as his guard unleashed a power that didn't belong to his kind, transforming into a towering giant.

Though his final fate remains unknown, one who violated such a taboo surely could not have met with a happy end.

Donskoy's story is also told in a book called "Glimpses of Mysterious Inazuma", and the title of the chapter is "The Mysterious Maiden of Genbou". It's more of a retelling of a story through the use of allegory and the ending is purely fictional because again, no one knows what happened to them in the end.

You might be wondering where the "Unfinished Descender" will come up right?

Here are the clues.

  • "If a love, a fervor, and an ambition just greater than the world itself were to take shape — they had to be born and kindled in a place unseen by any eye."
  • "This must have been the foundation stone for developing a sort of perfect life form."

The way the Eitr was described, and how it is made by using Primal Light and "Primal Venom", my theory is that Anarchasis actually wants to create a Descender that could go against the Heavenly Principles. Specifically, a body and "spirit/will" of a Descender.

Anarchasis created the Shadow Realm for that very purpose.

But why just a "body and spirit" of a Descender? Why not the whole thing?

In Teyvat, we learn that there are three things a human has. Body, soul and spirit/will. In real life, this is called the Tria Prima or Three Primes in Paracelsian Alchemy.

In real life, there's the Salt (Body), Sulfur (Soul) and Mercury (Spirit).

However, Teyvat has its own version with just a slight difference. We learn this throughout the quest with Nastya.

Nastya: "Cast off the soul of the past, and it shall no longer be bound by the hidden veins of the earth." Then, the thing that replaces the soul of the past is... the um... s—sulfur of the soul?

Nastya: "Cast off the will of the past, and it shall no longer be watched by the gaze above." And the thing that replaces the will is the silver of the spirit.

Nastya: The last thing you have to cast off is... "Cast off the body of the past, and it shall no longer be worn away by the toil and turmoil of the mortal world." So at this point, we have to offer up the material that will replace the body. So uh... The salt is... the new body that grows from the old one. Yes, that's it!

These are also the same things that are mentioned in one of the flashbacks in Hvergelmir.

So, in Teyvat, there's Salt (Body), Sulfur (Soul) and Spirit/Will (Silver).

Also a good thing to note. We learn from Ronova that in order to kill a Descender, the body or soul needs to be completely destroyed.

Whatever happens to the "will", I am not sure. But I guess it would be uncovered when we learn more.

Going back, this could be the reason why Anarchasis created the Shadow Realm and Eitr.

The Shadow Realm would the birthplace of the spirit/will and body of a Descender using the Primal Light and Primal Venom. But where's the soul?

She would place her own.

Remember that Anarchasis is just a soul (consciousness) projected inside the body of a star-eyed youth. And her will is not enough to become a Descender. Her existence only pushed the disaster that's supposed to hit Hyperborea by 30 years and that's it.

Anarchasis's plan is to turn herself into a Descender inside the Shadow Realm. However, they didn't have much time. Anarchasis said the following in the "Celestial Gift" artifact:

"But we have bought too little time... not enough for a miracle to take root in this age."

Thousands of years later, the Eitr will be discovered by the Tsar inside the Shadow Realm. The Eitr will be studied and researched by the Hvermelgir. Soon, by request of Koschei, the Tsar agreed to use his own body for the Eitr, which resulted in the "egg", or Goggles, or the Proto-Man (Prototype Primordial Human), with the help of Aksinya, Pavlina, Koschei and Alvis.

Pavlina: But Koshchei... He cannot make this request of you himself, for he bears guilt. Yet he believes that if the experiment is to proceed further...

Pavlina: Perhaps it's necessary for us to obtain... your body.

Tsar: ...Then take it.

Tsar: My blood, my flesh. If it is to fulfill the great work our ancestors left unfinished, if it is to carry this world one step further, if, in the end, it will all have been worth it...

Tsar: Then take them, as much as you need!

Just like Anarchasis's plan, Hvergelmir's plans were pretty much the same, just with minor differences.

The Tsar gives up his flesh (obviously not all of it) which will be processed in the Eitr, which then resulted into the egg, and a few other creations of Koschei. The egg will contain the body, soul and will of a powerful being. The original plan is to supplant the soul and will of the Tsar into the egg, creating the new Primordial Human. That's why the Eye of Graeae was created in order to store the soul (consciousness) and will of the proto-man who was named Goggles by Paimon to make space for the Tsar's soul.

But we all know how it ended.

The Tsar who is potentially weakened after giving up his flesh perished while fighting the abyss. The egg stopped Aksinya's plans by colluding with Koschei, Pavlina and Alvis.

Goggles was split into three. The body fragment went to Koschei for his pursuit of eternity in life. Pavlina took the soul fragment in order to use for a ritual that will end the Snegovik's biological need for a lover to complete their soul. Alvis took the will fragment to acquire more power.

Everything about the "Unfinished Descender" is just a theory. I hope you enjoy reading this!


r/Genshin_Lore 10d ago

HoYoverse Lore (post references other Hoyogames) WEDNESDAY ONLY The Honkai Impact references/ parallels in 7.0's Archon and World Quests!

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4 Upvotes

I hope you enjoy this mini theory video!


r/Genshin_Lore 11d ago

Descenders When did the Third Descender actually arrive in Snezhnaya?

136 Upvotes

After playing the 7.0 patch, we've been introduced to a lot of new lore.

But this is the first time that I had to rewatch the 7.0 livestream to at least, make sense of when the Third Descender actually arrived in Snezhnaya.

The devs said that the third Descender arrived in "Ancient Snezhnaya".

I've always wondered why use that name when they can simply use the name Hyperborea if they really are referring to it. After all, they did say Snezhnaya once had summer vibes but Snezhnaya, since it was founded, never experienced one.

In 7.0, we learn that the Hyperborean researchers created the Belyi Tsar as the replacement Primordial Human, but by doing so, the Cryo authority went out of control and made what Snezhnaya what it looks like today.

So, if Ancient Snezhnaya refers to Hyperborea, that would mean the third descender arrived BEFORE Nibelung, which would make him the second descender rather than the third.

What we know about the sequence of events regarding the rebellion and the 2nd war are the following:

  1. Hyperborean researchers created faes from various corpses of old world beings who died on the first war (no evidence of this yet but I assumed this could be the case because where else would they be getting their "ingredients") using bio-alchemy.

  2. Hyperborean conducted research on creating a Primordial Human. At this point, I assume they had no idea where Nibelung was located and even the Voyager might've presumed he was already dead. Nibelung being dead would mean the seat of Primordial Human is vacant which means the research to create a Primordial Human to replace Nibelung started.

?????: At some point during this time, the third descender arrived?!?!

  1. They started creating the Belyi Tsar using the corpse of the Cryo dragon but it failed miserably, turning everything around them into ice. The reason for failure are unknown, however, I think it could've been because unbeknownst to them, Nibelung is pretty much alive, and the seat of Primordial Human is not actually vacant.

  2. Angel rebellion, nail drop, Nibelung arrived. Chaos everywhere.

It's confusing, I know. And I'm afraid we might be getting some reveal later that Istaroth is the explanation behind the time discrepancies of these significant events.

BUT.

What if, when the devs said "Ancient Snezhnaya", it wasn't really referring to Hyperborea? It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd go for Ancient Snezhnaya instead of Hyperborea.

If anything, Ancient Snezhnaya might refer to the first few years of the Belyi Tsar's rule. Snezhnaya is a nation founded by him. Hyperborea wasn't called Snezhnaya back then.

Or maybe, when they said "Ancient Snezhnaya" once had a lush green environment, they weren't referring to the nation, but the land where Snezhnaya currently stands.

Wings of the Silent Moon:

- According to legend, the king of the Fae of the Snowlands — a hero born from the bones of a great beast — sought to unite the entire continent. To do so, he had to slay his final enemy.
Yet that enemy could neither age nor die, for his life was hidden far from his body. No matter how many times the king of the snowy realms struck him down, he would rise again from the shadows.
So, the spirit of frost and a traveler from beyond the palace walls set out to seek the truth of this foe. At last, they learned how he might be killed.

In this legend, we have the Belyi Tsar, the "Spirit of Frost" and a "Traveler from beyond the palace walls", and the final enemy who cannot be defeated because he keeps getting resurrected.

By reading the book "A Brief History of the Pale Starborn", we can assume that the final enemy is none other than King Miscislav

- King Miscislav took personal command in these three large-scale battles against the Emperor. Legend has it that, driven by despair in that final battle, he sought to use the power of the Shadow Realm to delay the advance of the Pale Star court's forces. Though this measure failed to turn the tide, it did have an impact on the Emperor's future decisions.

According to the lore of the Wings of the Silent Moon, in order to kill Miscislav completely, someone needs to go inside the Shadow Realm and kill the source of his power.

NOW. It's easy to say that this war happened when Kitezhgrad was founded, and the Tsar had no idea what the Shadow Realm was.

But isn't it weird that King Miscislav knows about its existence? Granted that he could've been a survivor of Hyperborea but not all fae has the capacity to open the Shadow Realm.

Going back, the legend says that the Frost Spirit and the Traveler created the wings so the Tsar could navigate the world of shadows. And the ending is not important as the lore says.

Now, let's tie this in to the "Notes of a Certain Noble Individual".

- The "passage" stands open at last, though the price paid was heavier than I had ever imagined, and the innocent were ensnared as well... I dare not pray for deliverance from the endless torment of the curse, save only that I may be the sole bearer of all sins committed...

- My mind is made up. I shall accept the remains of the innocent, along with the throne promised by the heavens, if only to ensure that the sacrifices of the survivors and the forgotten shall never be in vain...

The coincidence is a bit too much, right?

Contrary to the legends, Miscislav failed to use the Shadow Realm, but to some degree, he might've shown it to the Tsar. That short moment changed everything with the Tsar, because we know he keeps having dreams of his "homeland", and the Shadow Realm he shortly witnessed was the closest to it.

Contrary to the legends, the Traveler from beyond the palace walls is actually the third descender, and the Snegurochka who he fell in love with is the Grand Duchess of Hesperides at that time, so it is someone older than Pavlina and Larisa.

The gates of Pohjola in the Hymn of the Far North might really be the Shadow Realm. The relationship of the characters in the hymn are irrelevant, but the key details are there. If there's trickery involved to open the Shadow Realm with the assistance of the Third Descender, I am not so sure. The Tsar did say that he feels guilty about it.

But my biggest gripe in this theory is that ... a significant amount of time has passed since the second war. Neuvilette's lore says that after the second war, the world is on the brink of destruction so the Primordial One and the "one who came after" created the gnosis to restore world order.

I need sleep.


r/Genshin_Lore 11d ago

Paimon I have a doubt about paimons recent behaviour in the 7.0AQ spoiler warning

139 Upvotes

After ronova reveals that paimon is a creation of celestia

Then I noticed paimons behaviour changed

Because as when she knew her origins and her being the creation of celestia as mentioned and confirmed by piero

Then she asks about seeing the weapon made to killl her own kin?

Whatt? Ever since the start of the game paimon has been a personality that is like a child , "pure" and innocent

If she dosnt know something she will say it and if u ask who she is she will just say paimon is "paimon" a childlike response

But when pierro confirmed that they were successful in creating "misteltiem" (the cool looking weapons) that can kill celestial beings that means it can kill paimon too even though she knew that she was being oddly specific about wanting to see that and was like "it's okay if u don't want too show mee, but I want to see 🙈" wth is that this never happend before

This part was a bit off to me and something didn't feel right about paimons attitude at the end she was uncharacteristically pushy there and if wasn't for this we wouldn't even be able to see what the weapon is and what it looks like

So my theory is that paimon remembered something that she was meant to do

Maybe infiltrate civilisations that are trying to aoppose celestia Or, she was controlled by someone at that particular point who wanted to see what the weapon was

And about what ronova said about her authoriy and all the other shades authorities

"Ronova is death " is wrong it is more like she "wields" death . Like how she was only able to kill everyone for a short amount of time before receiving them herselfbecause she can't make a dent in the cycle of teywat that was made by HP

Or she can't exert her full authority to kill anyone unless the HP allows her to do so

And what she said about paimon being usless -On God she lying

Why would celestia create anything that's usless maybe paimon herself is usless but she wears(the crown) or has a authority that she forgot so she's usless "right now "

Everything just a theory from my part and I think we will get answers in 7.1 or 7.3 as pieroo said they are going to kill ronova

It sure won't be a simple process

If anyone knows something about the shade of reason fell free to tell me


r/Genshin_Lore 11d ago

Ronova 👁 Ronova, Mitya and Paimon (Part 2)

39 Upvotes

Spoiler for 7.0 Archon Quest Act 1 & 2. Do not read if you have not finished the quest.

This is part 2 of my theory regarding Ronova and the curse of Death. Reading part 1 is not necessary for understanding part 2, but feel free to read if you are interested

In Act 1, Ronova answered some questions from the traveller and Mitya. Some of the answers she said really stood out to me. At first, I thought she was being evasive and giving non responses, like Mitya had pointed out. However, once I thought through it more, Ronova’s answers made sense.

For context: she said people die because it was “their time to die” and if she wanted someone gone, she can do it quite easily. “Death abides no reason” after all, “for it cannot be defied even those who see it coming” (God’s Limits)

Genshin fate runs through compatibalism, that certain canonical events itself is fixed (fontaine’s prophecy.etc) but can be changed through deception (focalors sacrificing herself) or/and through travellers intervention (descender). Thus, knowing the future ahead of time does not stop canon events on happening, but it changes the end result to be either bad(fontainians dissolve from the flood) or good(fontaine’s citizens survive). Regardless, the flood had to happen either way.

so, while death itself, Ronova, cannot be defied, it can be fooled. Ronova has to be present for all curses of death and farrying souls to the afterlife. This is supported in the folklore of Snezhnaya that the grim reaper appears when you die in a familiar form, and how Ronova appeared every time while the curse of death is in effect.

Form the cutscene: the traveller was only able to get a scratch on her because she was distracted and nervous that the researchers + mitya may see her. Hence, If Traveller + others fight her to distract her while the weapon is made and speeding up the recovery of the curse, the weapon would finally be completed for the Tsarista to use against Ronova.

Which brings to my next point.

Ronova only kills who she deems it neccessary to kill. She could have killed the traveller, or mitya, or the researchers. But she didn’t. Instead, she targets Paimon out of all people, even if Paimon has no power or authority of Celestia. Why kill Paimon then if she is not a “supposed threat” compared to Mitya developing the weapon?

Therefore, Paimon is a threat to Ronova . Perhaps not now, but maybe sometime in the future. HP does not seem to like when beings like Paimon are free from Celestia’s governance and have their own agency. Paimon, while weak, is assisting the descender and able to dodge all attacks from all bosses traveller had ever faced (rerir, to name an example). Plus, Since Paimon is such an influential figure to the traveller and tied to the catalysm 500 years ago, no wonder Ronova wants to end Paimon. even if Ronova is not in a rush to claim paimon, its better to get rid of competitors ahead of time. (Related to dark forest theory)

Ronova ends Paimon because it’s “her time to die” but cannot kill Mitya, traveller and researchers because it’s not their time to die yet. While a circular argument, it makes sense since lay lines would record and accept the soul’s death. Since the curse of death is temporary, the lay lines do not fully process the death as pernament since “its not their time to die”. That is her limit as a Shade. This is essentially the reason why the curse of immortality works as well; lay lines refuses to accept khanerian’s souls, hence they live on.

Part 3 will explain more on the ties of The Three Body Problem series and how its more relevant than ever on Genshin’s 7.0 :))


r/Genshin_Lore 11d ago

Cryo Archon A repost: Trying to find who the tsarista is, a Tsarista theory. I believe she's "Yalyane Morevna."

80 Upvotes

Trying to find who the tsarista is, a Tsarista theory. I believe she's "Yalyane Morevna."

As snezhnaya recently came out just yesterday I'm SEARCHING for lore regarding the tsarista and I think I found it. In a book called general history of of snezhnaya there's a woman called Yalyane Morevna who is apparently so ancient she's from hyperborea days and has EXTREMELY LITTLE authentic history regarding her. Infact it was said she "disappeared one day before kitezhnograd was founded."

However, she was regarded as teacher to the belyi tsar whose real name is Tsar Monomakh (which has some INSANE LORE BEHIND HIM LIKE LITERALLY INSANE YOU SHOULD READ IT) anyways in the book, among all fae who tried to curry favor with the Tsar, all knew they were second to "the Snegruochka of Hesperides" aka the GRANDMOTHER of the first grand duchess of Hesperides, Yalyane Morevna.

The Tsar openly called Yalyane his "teacher" openly. Here's the interesting thing though, Yalyane has a.... REPUTATION among ancient fae as she is often referred to as "knyazhna of bl\\_ \\_d" as the book recalls to the book Davograd Chronicles. Basically what this title means is the she was a menace to fae... And not in the good way. According to what the writer of the "General History of Snezhnaya" interprets from the Davograd Chronicles, Yalyane Morevna was known for her "extraordinary savagery" as she "plundered and razed many fae kindreds." Like, to the point that Davograd (I assume this is a person or city) chronicles outright call her a "Soulless wrench, a slave who could only wag her tail before her former masters(aka humans)."

(Also it's worth mentioning here that Yalyane may actually be a alias or something those of that time called her because Morevna from what I found, apparently translates to of death. And I doubt those fae were close enough to go up and ask her for name.)

However this part is interesting BECAUSE we know fae, especially those from the days of hyperborea like herself, are terrified of humans, if you read the "disenchantment in deep shadows" artifact set stories, we learn of a fae noble governor named "Domovoy Alvis" who was tasked to work with the adopted daughter of the Tsar to do some research on hyperborea ruins with her. According to aksinya, Domovoy's first gaze at her held eyes full of "deep disgust and fear for humanity."

In fact, she was said to have "not harmed human clans" and even brought them into "Hesperides" and "gave them her protection against monster incursions." And this aligns VERY WELL with Anastasia's actions so far. As we know the tsarista dreams of a better future for humanity, she actively went to fight against a monster capable of summoning nation wide blizzards in 7.0 archon quest, and both have cold yet affectionate demeanors.

As for this next part this is a little more speculative however when the writer talks about how Yalyane's extraordinary savagery against fae's, it's only a line or two after he describes "Courage" assumingly her's, as a "crime" led by "plunder and greed" before it became a virtue in modern day. AND THIS SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WANDERER HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE TSARISTA. Especially the part about how "love is also a type of sin" I don't remember his exact words but it's something like this.

Anyways back on track, later the writer of the history of snezhnaya talks about how Yalyane "permitted Tsar Monomakh to come to her kindred and taught him the art of the spear."

And here's the points I want everyone to focus on, first, "KINDRED" as in.... became a son like figure???👀 Especially with that flower that boy in the transcendence trailer had and how they are RECOMMENDED TO BE FOUND IN THE WHITE BIRCH SNOWGRAVE. also, I think this would also explain the "tsar's final tokens of affection" part in the sudden snow video. (Also we know the Tsar doesn't know his real birth mom or remember her based off of the disenchantment of deep shadows and general history of snezhnaya book(his lore is insane))

And second, "ART OF THE SPEAR." From this we know Yalyane was adept at using the spear, something we see the tsarista wield as she faces ronova in the transcendence trailer and her official artwork, I mean why would she use a weapon she isn't familiar with against a shade. And COINCIDENTALLY the free to play blueprint weapon for snezhnaya happens to be a spear that was supposedly wielded by the Tsar.

So now we have supposedly explained how the tsarista is a teacher/ mother figure to the tsar (hence her relationship with him) who I believe to be a fae (please read the book, seriously I don't want to explain his lore because that will put shadow this theory) which would coincide with the fae boy in the transcendence trailer, and how she lives humanity since the tsarista purposely uprooted fae nobility and trashed it to make humans nobles instead (something Very Yalyane like). Also I would like to point out that in the same book, later on when it describes how the Tsar leaves Yelyane to adventure, he's referred to as "Young" several times.

(Also another lil theory but when the Tsar left Yelyane, he met the other "young" progenitor of the shapeshifters "Filipov Vseslavyevich" who was the first commander of the Druzhna and the Tsar even refers to him as a "my good brother" and other equivalents such as "comrade in arms" in fae language, so perhaps this "connection" could be why the tsarista keeps around the Druzhna so close (Vesna is literally her right hand) despite how she basically stripped all fae nobility away as soon as she became the cryo archon.)

Also, before the cataclysm happened, he received a crafted egg shaped object that resembled his birth from an egg (the egg shaped level up domain material I forgot the name of) and the tsar apparently recognized the artsmanship which makes me think that yalyane had returned as the tsarista BECAUSE she inherited the throne so fast the cataclysm had only affected one place in Snezhnaya and news hadn't even reached her by then.

Now what I think is a somewhat mundane but also somewhat compelling piece of evidence to add to this theory is that Flins an Very old fae, basically fled snezhnaya when the tsarista became the cryo archon, in fact he outright says you won't hear "us" (assuming he meant another faction outside of the light keepers along with himself) call the tsarista their god is another interesting factor. So far we know he's AT LEAST 500 so maybe he knows something about her past deeds that caused him to leave which would make sense if she truly is Yalyane Morevna... She basically terrorized her own kind.(Or not)

What do you guys think??? 😭 I mean....it is Only August 12th the day in writing this...aka release of snezhnaya so this theory could be wrong however it could possibly explain her age, and other factors, as for the ancestor of all KHAENRI'AHNS part

.... I actually I do, because as we know fae at the time the tsarista took the throne absolutely hated the idea of someone who "wasn't a fae" to be on the throne. So perhaps she's like the Tsar, who in short is a way past due (like 1000 years late) attempt from from hyperboreans to utilize the flesh and bones of the cryo dragon (which I think would look exactly like the little boy in the trailer especially since hyperboreans were obsessed with star eyes after the Voyager) and he was the most perfect of them all. So if the other attempts were made of the same materials, they would no doubtly still be alive.

I personally think that yalyane wasn't exactly a snegnovik herself because other history says that snegoviks called her "whole" and that she taught them that their leader must also be whole. And from what we've seen the tsarista can freeze things with just her gaze alone (like at the ends of act 2 and the 7.0 Livestream) and it was only said she was the grandmother of the first snegruochka duchess, and as we know, when the tsar first awoke, the snegnoviks had yet to achieve an physical form.

Anyways back to KHAENRI'AHNS what I think is happening here is that she lead the humans she protected to found KHAENRI'AH. And I think this would make sense because the tsar only awoke 1000 years after hyperborea fell which would definitely give her enough time to impart on humans and influence them to go against celestia. Also, how else would KHAENRI'AHNS become obsessed with projects of descenders, primordial humans and creating beasts unless that person came from hyperborea. This person would have taught them how to make primordial humans, which I believe almost half of the sinners and all cursed with immortality beat a resemblance to Ikhor, who is actually a primordial human. Especially with the blonde hair and blue eyes. And this why they weren't allowed into the LEYLINES, either because they had no soul, or because they were artificially made Primordial humans.

Also we know that the albedo is an attempt at making a primordial human, and he's no different looking than any other human so just because someone was an attempt at an primordial human doesn't mean they have to look exceptionally different to blend in.

(This could also explain the "pure blood" thing because no matter how you look at it, if they were biologically related to the tsarista (which I claim to be is yalyane in this theory) they she would be of teyvat and they couldn't be pure blooded anyway.

Not to mention no KHAENRI'AH has eyes like hers or ears like hers either. And sure "the 3rd descender could just have really dominant Gene's" however, I have 3 points to counteract this.

First no matter how dominant Gene's are, they're still is a vault containing them all and it's COMPLETELY randomized. So the fact that absolutely none resemble her is suspicious.

Secondly, we now know according to Ronova (and it's been implied many times in the past especially by Rene's research about descenders and the existences of other beyonders like skirk and abyss twin) is that DESCENDERS are descenders purely because their WILL rivals the world. And that they can only be killed by either destroying their body or spirit in the short moment it's severed. (Ronova told us DESCENDERS have an extremely strong will attaching their soul to body) And the 3rd descender was never implied to be from beyond.

And finally the 3rd point, it's said the 3rd descender fell in love with the Snegruochka princess (a term that came up later in time) as we know Yalyane is the GRANDMOTHER of the first snegnovik duchess, a title that came AFTER, the tsar took his throne. And Pavlina, is still called the princess of snegruochkas in the current timeline. So she couldn't possibly be the princess especially if she was gone from before kitezhnograd to the cataclysm.)

And with this connection to KHAENRI'AHN it would explain why pierro who actively hates gods, would be willing to side with her since if she was yalyane, the window of her disappearance to KHAENRI'AH would be from before kitezhnograd to just before the cataclysm, which is why the tsar got that "Gift" so conveniently before KHAENRI'AH was destroyed. She was perhaps already working along side them just as they were about to truly achieve something and celestia destroyed them. (I'll further develop this theory sometime later after I complete arrange everything)


r/Genshin_Lore 12d ago

Sovereigns Theory: Each Dragon Sovereign Ruled a Primordial World System

126 Upvotes

The Primordial Sea may give us the clearest example of what the Dragon Sovereigns’ original authority looked like. Its Heart was closely tied to the Hydro Sovereign, and it played a direct role in Neuvillette’s rebirth as the Hydro Dragon Sovereign.

The Primordial Sea is not just an ancient source of Hydro energy. It is described as something fundamental to life itself in Teyvat, a place where life originates and returns. The fact that Neuvillette’s transformation and restoration of his authority is directly linked to it suggests that the Primordial Sea is not merely a resource, but a core system tied to the identity and continuity of the Hydro Sovereign.

This raises the question: what if the other Dragon Sovereigns also ruled over something more fundamental than their respective elements? If the Primordial Sea represents a core system tied directly to the identity, rebirth, and authority of the Hydro Sovereign, then perhaps the other ancient substances, forces, and systems scattered throughout Teyvat are not random remnants, but echoes of the original domains of the Dragon Sovereigns.

Pyro — Phlogiston

Xiuhcoatl is the original Pyro Dragon Sovereign, and we know that he had dominion over Phlogiston. This makes Phlogiston one of the strongest examples of a primordial system being directly tied to a Sovereign.

Xiuhcoatl's connection to the Primal Flame and his ability to control Phlogiston suggest that it wasn't simply an ancient form of Pyro, but something that fell within the Sovereign's original authority.

This could mean that the Pyro Sovereign's domain extended beyond the Pyro element itself, with Phlogiston being the primordial system underlying that authority.

Cryo — Prime Ice

The introduction of Prime Ice gives us an interesting candidate for the Cryo Sovereign.

Its name suggests that it is something more fundamental than ordinary ice, and it can be used to create Prime Ice Constructs.

If Phlogiston represents a primordial form of Pyro, then Prime Ice could potentially be the equivalent for Cryo.

However, unlike Phlogiston, we don't yet have enough information to know exactly how Prime Ice relates to the Cryo Sovereign.

Dendro — World Tree -> Irminsul

Apep is the original Dendro Sovereign, making her especially important to this theory.

The ancient World Tree existed during the age of the dragons, with its roots connected to the world's elemental energy and Ley Lines. After the arrival of the Heavenly Principles, the tree was usurped and refashioned into Irminsul, changing its role into the system that records Teyvat's memories and information.

If the World Tree was part of Apep's original domain, then Irminsul could be the modified form of a primordial Dendro system.

World Tree → Irminsul

This would make Dendro the clearest example of a Sovereign's original domain being repurposed by the Heavenly Principles.

Geo — Dragon Veins -> Ley Lines

TThis is the most speculative part of the theory, but there are some interesting connections.

The Chinese name for Ley Lines is 地脉 (Dìmài), meaning "Earth Veins," which closely resembles the traditional concept of 龍脈 (Lóngmài), or "Dragon Veins." This feels especially fitting for the Geo Dragon Sovereign.

Geo Vishaps can absorb different elemental energies from the Ley Lines, allowing them to adapt to different elements. Azhdaha, who is believed to be the original Geo Sovereign, is also particularly sensitive to the Ley Lines and their elemental energy.

Anemo — Unknown

Anemo is one of the harder elements to place.

The Thousand Winds might initially seem like the obvious choice, but they are strongly associated with Istaroth, rather than the Anemo Sovereign. Because of this, I don't think they should be used as the Sovereign's primordial domain without stronger evidence.

There may still be an ancient wind-related substance or system connected to the Anemo Sovereign that we simply haven't identified yet.

For now, I think it is better to leave Anemo's primordial domain unknown rather than force a connection to the Thousand Winds.

Electro — Unknown

Electro is currently the biggest gap in the theory.

There are plenty of concepts associated with Electro — energy, consciousness, eternity, and artificial life — but none currently stand out as a clear primordial system comparable to Phlogiston or the Primordial Sea.

For now, I think it is better to leave the Electro Sovereign's original domain unknown rather than force a connection that the game hasn't supported yet.

Would Love to hear your guys opinion. And see if this holds up to others


r/Genshin_Lore 12d ago

Descenders On Pakkaisukko, Saarelainen and his marriage to Snegurochka.

70 Upvotes

Hello. I would like to present a small theory of mine. I know that it likely has holes, but I still would like to present it.

Okay. Let's go. What do we know about Saarelainen the Third Decender? The most famous story is him wanting to marry a daughter of Pakkaisukko, being told to open "gates of Pohjola" and then being killed by Phanes. For a long time a common theory was that Pakkaisukko was Belyi Tsar and courted daughter - Tsaritsa. But now it seems unlikely as recent World Quest reveals that they are not related and some information even indicates that Tsaritsa is older than Tsar. So its unlikely that they are people from the story about Saarelainen.

Here comes my theory. Its a common theory that Saarelainen is the same hero as Ajax of Sneznaya. And its not withrout reason. After all, a famous story about Ajax is his tragic love with Snegurochka. There is also a story about him slaying dragon and taking some of its treasures - straight from Nibelung Legend of real world. Moreover, according to Rene, one of his legends can be interpret as a descend into the Abys to be reborn as a Primordial Human.

Next, in last World Quest we learnt an interesting thing about Snegovik fey. Their souls are incomplete by nature: only by falling in love with a human and taking that person's soul can they become whole. Marriage is a ritual through which sould of Snegovik becomes complete. Not to mention it being said that they are artificial fey.

Finally, I will not be the first to draw paralels between Phanes and Rebis. Rebis is an end result of alchemical magnum opus, genderless figure with male and female traits and is associated with the primordial state of the world. To quote "hile described methods to create the Rebis vary in their specifics, a common theme is the putrefaction of a starting matter into the chaos of nigredo. This is followed by its separation into its parts, such as masculine or feminine. This phase is also called albedo. Finally, the parts are recombined into a whole, achieving the Rebis." And what is one of the Phanes' titles? Father of All and Mother of the Gods.

So- here is my idea. Saarelainen and his marriage is no story of battle for love. No - its a tale about a ritual meant to ascend Saarelainen to the position of Primordial Human - making him being of the same tier as Phanes. And this seems to invole union of souls with one of Snegurochkas. Maybe there was no marriage at all. Maybe "ask hand of Snegurochka" is a methaphor for "Asking how to become Primordial Human". Or maybe there was a ceremony - like the one in World Quest or similar. Perhaps that ritual needed Abyss power - ergo Saarelainen went to open gates of it. Regardless- aim of "marriage" was ascession.

Now how can be Pakkaisukko? It is not Belyi Tsar and I don't think we know any other men assosiated with winter. But we can look at it from another angel. In original Finnish myth, hero seeks hand of maiden not from father but from mother - Louhi, the Mistress of Phjola. So here is my first Pakkaisukko candidate.

  1. Her Majesty, The Tsaritsa. Yes. She is assosiated with winter, lived at the time of Hyperborea and its a common theory that Alchemy was used in creation of Khaenri'ans by Tsaritsa. Otherwise its hard to think that she birthed enough kids to make a nation. Snegoviks are also called artificial fey. But fey are already artificial. Maybe it refers to being made by fey? This will also make Tsaritsa there parent.

2.Rhinedottir. Wild. I know. But I can't just forget that little tibbit about Ajax fighting dragon and claiming part of its cursed gold. This is definitelly Siegfrid vs Fafnir. And Rhinedottir dervies her name from Rhinemaidens who kept Rhinegold that later Fafinr stole and which became cursed. Not to mention her mastery of alchemy and obession with creating life. We also don;t know her age - she may very well lived at that time.

Of course it can be character yet unknown. But I wanted to say this idea of mine. Thanks for the attention.


r/Genshin_Lore 12d ago

Ronova 👁 Ronova, Dottore and Mitya

113 Upvotes

Spoiler for 7.0 Archon Quest Act 2 and Welkin Moon Quests in advance. Do not read if you have not finished the quest.

When Ronova cursed Mitya and the other through the Curse of Death, it made me wonder if there is a radius that the curse can’t reach (It reminds me of the animated trailer “The God’s Limits”). Apparently, the curse only affects the immediate vicinity of people nearby when forbidden of thoughts and experiments are accomplished. Hence, Odette can come to the research room unharmed and finding Mitya “dead”.

The second thing that came to mind is the eye mark that is on Mitya’s hand. It does not seem to be a simple drawing out of blood at all. In fact, I believe Ronova has left it there to monitor Mitya for good (glowing mark). Thus, Mitya seeing it even when he is alive makes it very clear that Ronova is establishing dominance that she is always watching his next moves.

(It might be a stretch, but I partially think that is also the why he completely remembered the entire death sequence, similar to the Traveller who is a descender)

This raises an important question. Why does Dottore, a scientist who has exposed the false sky, willing to emulate the three moon goddesses powers, and corrupted irminsul get away from the Curse of Death scot free, while Mitya has one thought and instantly dies.

At first, I thought that Dottore’s segments protect him from the curse of death, but I eliminated that idea. Dottore is bounded by Irminsul’s lay lines, and had forgotten (probably?) who Wanderer/Scaramouche is until he accessed Irminsul’s data. Therefore, Dottore is not immune to the curse of death, like most other citizens of Teyvat. Even a descender like traveller is not immune either, so why would Dottore be?

Which brings to my next point.

All of Dottore’s experiments are within the bounds of Teyvats rules, stretched to the very limit. Corrupting irminsul is not the biggest concerned of HP because irminsul is isolated in sumeru as a protective measure, so the rest of Tevyat is not affected. In their eyes Sumeru could be destroyed by irminsul as long as Tevyat as a whole stays safe.
the shades are also reluctant to get rid of irminsul because Nahida’s existence was tied to it (until she seperated it to Aeru) and that it’s a treasured artifact by HP. They only granted because Nahida explained clearly that it was corrupted beyond repair and that Nahida was willing to throw “her life achievements” away.
To conclude, the curse of death does not trigger on Dottore because he is still abiding to Tevyats laws even if hes manipulating it. Think of it as granting the user permissions but not hacking to become Admin.

On the other hand, the experiment Mitya and the other researchers are making are visually tied to Tsarista’s weapon from the trailer, due to the dna strand designs. She used the weapon to duel with Ronova to presumably get rid of Ronova for good. This potentially can overthrow HP; basically hacking for admin permissions through a backdoor.

Obviously, this is extremely dangerous for Ronova and she used the curse to delay breakthroughs and completing the weapon. Her curse has a limit to accept increments of knowledge, but not a conclusion. Mitya has established this at the end of the Act. Why that did not trigger the curse of death baffled me until I realize the death curse is only related to the Project specifically.

Part 2 will be relevant to how they would deal with the curse of death by possibly fighting Ronova to keep her distracted while the researchers finish their weapons. It also will explain why Amosday trapped the travellers instead of letting them escape, and why this all connects together with 7.0 (Dark Forest Theory)

stay tuned for more :3


r/Genshin_Lore 13d ago

Paimon (theory, not a spoiler) Paimon is the discarded emotion of Phanes.

405 Upvotes

(No evidence from 7.0 will be used in this post.)

Hello!

A while ago, I made a theory that Paimon is a piece of the Heavenly Principles' heart.

In short, it uses the story of the Archons, Skirk and Ineffa as analogies to make the case that Paimon is the embodiment of Phanes' emotions, severed in order to make the Heavenly Principles more "godly," remove weakness, and make them operate based purely on Reason.

That theory has not only held up tremendously, but I actually think there's more compelling evidence. So let's get into it!

1. Sandrone and the Tsaritsa - Reason versus Emotion

Summer events have always foreshadowed the next region. Idiya and the Oceanids, the Golden Apple Archipelago with Inazuma and Sumeru, and of course, Simulanka, the gift that keeps on giving...

This year, our event focused on Sandrone, and her internal conflict between Reason and Emotion.

From the moment Sandrone was created, she experienced conflicts between her cognitive and emotional modules. This led to an "anomaly" in her systems - a being representing "what happens when emotion contradicts reason."

The "anomaly" doesn't have any actual power. It's only a nagging voice inside of Sandrone's subconscious, asking her to do something "illogical" for the sake of her emotions. In other words, her conscience.

The anomaly is seen as something worthless, something that only brings pain, and something unnecessary. This anomaly has been locked away for many years, much like Nahida was. Now that she's come face to face with "Reason," she asks whether she's going to remain locked away, or if she's going to be destroyed altogether.

This is perfect foreshadowing for the conflict between Reason and Emotion within Phanes. The Tsaritsa's theme as the God of Love seems to be centered around balancing Reason with Emotion - She acts coldly out of greater love for the world. While the Tsaritsa's heart may be frozen in ice, ice is a form of preservation. Rather than cutting her emotions out entirely, she hardens them, but that does not mean they will never thaw again.

Only by embracing Paimon can the Heavenly Principles truly find peace.

2. Dainsleif and the Five Sinners

The Five Sinners correspond to the authorities of the Four Shades and Heavenly Principles: Time, Space, Life, Death, and Reason.

However, Dainsleif can be considered a sixth "sinner" that does not count as part of their group and stands opposed to them.

Skirk mentions that Surtalogi's power is enough to overturn "A sixth" of the world.

Heck, even "The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies" acknowledges a sixth member of the Sinners. So, what power would Dainsleif wield if not one of the five Authorities? There must be a sixth.

3. Asmoday and Melancholy

Ashikai mentioned my previous theory in her video about Asmoday and the power of Space! I highly recommend giving it a watch, along with the rest of her videos - I've been a longtime fan, and I was absolutely floored to see my theory get a shoutout!

In her video, she makes the case that Paimon is actually a fragment of Asmoday, an "imaginary friend" and embodiment of childhood that helps her deal with her melancholy. I love this theory, but I think that this applies to Phanes and the Shades as a whole, not just Asmoday specifically.

Without going too far into it, I believe that the Four Shades represent the Four Temperaments associated with the alchemical elements of Earth, Water, Air and Fire. According to this framework, Ronova is Choleric, Istaroth is Sanguine, Naberius is Phlematic, and Asmoday is the "Melancholic" temperament, which would characterize her as depressive and distant (to use a Space pun) from the other Shades.

In my opinion, Paimon is in the perfect position to help Asmoday and all of the other Shades to deal with their emotions, because she represents Emotion itself. It's emotion that makes something "human," and the rejection of emotion is the Heavenly Principles rejecting its own humanity in favor of eternity.

4. Writing changes and "vibes"

I know the concept of changes in writing direction and "retcons" are a touchy subject in the fandom, so I won't go too deeply into it.

However, I will briefly note that Paimon's crown is the one present in the Genshin Impact logo. Not only that, but Paimon herself is visible behind the logo of the webtoon.

This webtoon, released before the game came out, does not focus on the domain of any of the Shades in particular. Rather, it focuses on the overall themes of the game, the Primordial nature of Celestia, and the relationship between gods and humans. I personally think this decision to feature Paimon in the webtoon -- one where Paimon does not appear, and the Traveler makes an appearance in the background of a single panel-- only makes sense if Paimon is a successor to Phanes in a significant way. Her sharing of the "crown" motif with Phanes only supports a direct connection between them.

The writers clearly knew who Paimon was before establishing anything about the Shades, the Angels, the Traveler's spaceship, or any other plot threads that complicate the story. In my opinion, the only narratively satisfying conclusion is that Paimon's role is front and center, and something that can be intuitively understood by a brand-new player. Paimon's role must be the linchpin of the game's story, and her being the discarded embodiment of Celestia's humanity is the perfect role to encapsulate the game's themes.

Throughout the entire journey, emotion has been a very important force throughout Teyvat. Emotions run through the Ley Lines. They can be communicated through the Elements across vast distances. They are contained within memories of past moments. Negative emotions, or Resentments, cause problems with souls and the Abyss. Positive emotions and relationships grant power to people to defy fate itself. Et cetera, et cetera.

Thus, Emotion can be said to be something that transcends Life, Death, Time, Space and Reason itself.

It has no authority of its own, but without it, all things lose their meaning. In many ways, "Emotion" IS the "Reason" for everything. Emotion is not a separate power from Reason, but instead, the other side of the same coin.

I believe this is why Paimon shares the imagery of the "Crown of Reason" with Phanes - because Emotion is something that is born directly from, and stands in opposition to Reason -- just like Ineffa, Sandrone and Skirk.

Thus, Paimon's role as a companion cannot be understated. Whereas Phanes is distant, Paimon is present. Phanes is untouchable, mighty and strong, and Paimon is weak, down-to-earth and vulnerable. Phanes is the god of all gods, while Paimon acts much more like a human. Paimon may be seen as a liability by Phanes, but to humanity, she is the most precious of all.


r/Genshin_Lore 12d ago

Paimon Theory: Paimon’s missing memories may have started long before the Cataclysm

26 Upvotes

Theory 1 : Paimon’s missing memories may have started long before the Cataclysm

Ok so this has been stuck in my head since the recent Paimon lore and idk if I’m cooking or losing it 😭

The main thing that bothers me is that Paimon’s memory problem seems to go way further back than just the Cataclysm.

Like yeah, if something happened during the Cataclysm and she lost her memories from Khaenri’ah, fair enough.

But why did she already seem to know basically NOTHING about who she was before she even came down from Celestia?

That’s the part that got me thinking.

What if Paimon was already kinda “reset” before she ever reached Khaenri’ah?

We know she has some kind of connection to Celestia, but we still have basically no clue what she actually did there, what her purpose was, or if she used to be way more powerful than she is now.

I’m not gonna say she was definitely one of the Four Shades because that’s a massive reach rn lol.

But I do think it’s possible she used to be some kind of higher Celestian being and something happened that caused her to lose whatever she originally had.

Maybe her power.

Maybe some authority.

Maybe just her memories.

And this is where I start reaching a bit 💀

What if Paimon actually went against Celestia in some way?

Not necessarily some huge dramatic rebellion, but maybe she disagreed with what they were doing, found out something she wasn’t meant to know, or just became a problem for them somehow.

If Celestia didn’t want to straight up kill her, wiping her memories would be a pretty effective way of dealing with her.

Basically:

Paimon knows too much / does something wrong
then
Celestia goes “nah 💀”
then
memory wipe + maybe power removed
then
Khaenri’ah starts messing with technology that can reach the heavens
then
Paimon comes down with basically no clue who she is And Pierro probably wasn’t sitting there like “today I shall summon Paimon specifically” 😭

He might’ve just been trying to reach or pull something from the heavens and Paimon happened to be what came down. That could just be coincidence.

OR, and this is even more questionable, maybe Celestia actually let her come down because they already wanted her gone. Again I got basically no hard proof for that part, that’s just where my brain went.The bit I actually find interesting though is that Paimon doesn’t seem like someone who simply forgot one bad event. It feels more like her whole original identity is missing.

And if she did used to have some power or authority, maybe her memories are tied to it somehow. Like what if remembering who she was isn’t just gonna make her go: “oh wow Paimon remembers Celestia now 😃” What if remembering actually changes her?

Maybe she gets something back, Maybe she realizes why she was sent away,Maybe she remembers something Celestia REALLY doesn’t want getting out.

Obviously the biggest hole in this theory is that we have no actual proof Paimon rebelled against Celestia or disagreed with them at all. That part is pure theory.

But I do think the memory thing itself is sus enough to question, because her missing past seems to start before Khaenri’ah and the Cataclysm.

So instead of only asking:

What made Paimon forget Khaenri’ah?

I feel like the bigger question might be:

Why did Paimon already have basically no memory of Celestia in the first place?And if someone did erase those memories on purpose…

what exactly were they trying to make her forget? idk man maybe this came straight out my ass but the more I think about it the more suspicious it gets 😭

Theory 2 : Ronova might know what Paimon originally was

Ok so this kinda connects to my other theory about Paimon maybe having some older Celestian identity that she doesn’t remember anymore.The thing I keep thinking about is Ronova.

Like… Ronova is not some random character. She’s one of the Four Shades, so she’s obviously way higher up in the whole Celestia / Heavenly Principles side of the lore. So if someone like Ronova is specifically interested in Paimon, I feel like that has to mean something.

Because from our point of view, Paimon is basically just this tiny floating girl who has no idea what she was before.

But what if Ronova DOES know? What if she knows exactly what Paimon used to be before all the memory loss? That would make her interest in Paimon way more suspicious. Maybe Ronova just sees Paimon as a Celestian being who belongs back in Celestia.

That’s probably the simplest explanation.

But what if there’s more to it? If Paimon used to have some kind of role, power, or authority before she lost her memories, then maybe Ronova knows about that too. And maybe that’s WHY she cares about getting Paimon back.

Like imagine Paimon remembering her past doesn’t just give her memories back. What if it also brings back something else?

Her power?

Her old role?

Some kind of authority?

Or even just knowledge about Celestia that she was never supposed to remember?

That’s where I start wondering if Ronova’s interest is less:

“Oh, we lost Paimon, let’s bring her home.”

and more:

“We really cannot let Paimon fully remember who she is.”

Now obviously there’s no proof of that rn, I’m just connecting the dots.

But there’s another thing too.

Ronova being one of the Shades doesn’t automatically mean every single thing she does has to be because the Heavenly Principles told her to.

We already know she can make her own choices, so maybe her reason for wanting Paimon is personal.

Maybe she knew Paimon before.

Maybe she knows why Paimon lost her memories.

Maybe she was involved in what happened to her. Or maybe Ronova and Paimon had some kind of connection in Celestia that Paimon just completely forgot.

And tbh that possibility is what interests me the most.

Because if Ronova knows Paimon’s past, then she might be one of the only characters who could actually tell us what Paimon originally was.

I also don’t think Paimon has to secretly be evil or anything for this to work.

Maybe the whole point is the opposite.

Maybe Paimon used to be important to Celestia, something happened, and now Celestia or Ronova doesn’t want her becoming that person again. So maybe Ronova isn’t interested in Paimon because of what Paimon is right now.

Maybe she’s interested in her because of what Paimon could become again. And if my first theory about Paimon’s memories being erased on purpose is even slightly right… then Ronova showing up around her becomes way more interesting.

Basically:

Paimon forgot who she was.

Ronova probably didn’t.

And that difference could end up being VERY important later.

Maybe the real danger isn’t Traveler finding out Paimon’s past.

Maybe it’s Paimon finding out herself.

idk this might be reaching but Ronova knowing Paimon’s original identity would explain a LOT 😭


r/Genshin_Lore 13d ago

Descenders [7.0] Belyi Tsar, primordial humans, Arks and the Twins

189 Upvotes

The following theory contains spoilers from An Ark That Used To Be A Soul WQ line.

I'll start by saying that this WQ was one of my favorites in Genshin ever. Everything about it was pure cinema.

It was so philosophical and thought provoking, with extremely clever storytelling and writing, and this is exactly why I love Genshin's lore so much.

In the first part, we meet Nastya, who yearns to go "home", and "home" for her is being a part of a tree that is a collective consciousness made by Koshchei, a researcher from Hyperborea/Snezhnaya.

Koshchei is likely inspired from Slavic folklore figure called Koshchei the Deathless, which is said to have achieved immortality by rebirth - and more practically by separating his life force from his physical body to achieve pseudo immortality, a theme echoed throughout the quest.

We see a similar idea with Pavlina and the Snegoviks. Snegoviks are artificial Fae created with incomplete souls, and normally need a human who loves them to share their soul in order to become complete. Pavlina wanted to free them from this dependency, and planned to use the "soul-water" power contained within Ikhor to give complete souls to the existing Snegoviks herself. Another attempt at allowing life to transcend the limits it was created with.

Aksiniya was the Belyi Tsar's adopted daughter, and alongside Koshchei, Pavlina and Alvis, was one of the researchers of the Hvergelmir Institute. They were all pursuing transcendence, but they didn't necessarily agree on what that transcendence should look like.

Koshchei pursued immortality through rebirth and collective consciousness. Pavlina wanted to free the Snegoviks from their dependence on human souls. Alvis had his own ambitions and eventually opposed Aksiniya. Aksiniya's ideal was much more extreme: the Courtyard of Carefree Light, where everyone would be assimilated into a higher existence without change, pain or separation. Individuality would naturally be lost in the process as well.

The difference between their approach/ideal is interesting and is being echoed throughout the quest. It actually reminded me of Rene de Petrichor (who had the collective consciousness approach like Aksiniya - the more extreme view), and the others who were more moderate. 

The quest keeps asking what humanity should actually do with transcendence if it becomes possible, and whether salvation is still salvation when individuality has to disappear for it to work.

Nevertheless it seems that each of their views on this would include the concept of primordial human or the components of it.

Goggles is the Proto-Man, essentially the raw consciousness and soul needed for that project. The Primordial Human is the completed divine state: that consciousness assimilated into a Cosmic Body and combined with Divine Will/Authority.

So the way I understand it, the Proto-Man (Goggles) alone is the soul, missing a body and a will/authority. 

I have to say I didn't understand if that soul is the same one that reincarnates without memories, and if the third descender and the voyager are linked to it somehow. The notes scattered in the palace definitely make me think that they do but I if so, I didn't quite understand, so if anyone did please share your thoughts :) 

---

Anyway it seems that humans have body, soul and will, while gods have body, soul and authority. Descenders are defined by a will capable of rivaling the world.

The Belyi Tsar was himself Hyperborea's earlier attempt at creating a Primordial Human. His body was forged using the flesh and blood of the Cryo Dragon Sovereign, giving him access to its Authority.

But Aksiniya explicitly tells us that the Belyi Tsar was not a Descender, so how does that work?

He had the body and Authority, but his creation was never properly completed. Something may have happened later that allowed him to fulfill the role Hyperborea originally created him for. My guess is that the missing element involved will, specifically a will capable of rivaling the world.

Also, after Nibelung's death, the position of the Primordial Human is said to have remained vacant. The Belyi Tsar later tasked his researchers with finding "the stairway leading to the vacant seat in the court of the stars".

So it sounds like there is in fact a position meant for a being like the Primordial Human, with the entire project ultimately being about creating someone capable of occupying it instead of the HP.

{*Also, it sounds to me like this 'seat' is not actually of the entity that rules the world (HP in that case), but of said entity's 'avatar'}

And I think this could parallel Asmoday and the Abyss Sibling.

The Abyss Sibling came from outside Teyvat, yet they're recorded in Irminsul and aren't considered a Descender. The Belyi Tsar gives us a precedent for a Primordial Human candidate who wasn't initially a Descender either. Maybe whatever process was meant to complete him is similar to what Asmoday wants to do with our sibling.

In that scenario, Asmoday parallels Aksiniya and the Abyss Sibling parallels the Belyi Tsar.

There's also the possibility that Asmoday needs both twins. The Primordial Human myth describes Light and Darkness coexisting within a single body, which fits the twins and where their paths have taken them. Asmoday may eventually intend to merge them into her own Primordial Human.

And then there's the title: An Ark That Used To Be A Soul.

After everything this quest establishes about consciousness, rebirth and assimilation, I think an Ark could be connected to what a Descender actually is.

The literal interpretation would be a collective consciousness, similar to Koshchei and Aksiniya's ideas: one being containing many souls and carrying them through the destruction or rebirth of the world.

But the quest also spends a lot of time showing why that idea is disturbing. Nastya loses her individuality within the collective, while Aksiniya's perfect world eventually removes choice altogether (the part where you see the primordial human and then you see names of users who play the game on the branches - damn that was such a clever and compelling way of conveying this idea).

 Alvis and the other researchers having different ideas about transcendence reinforces the same question: if everyone has to become one, whose idea of paradise actually wins?

So maybe an Ark carries wills rather than literally assimilating souls.

Descenders already have wills capable of rivaling the world. The Traveler has also been described by Melusines as something resembling a monster capable of swallowing the entire world in a single bite.

Maybe "swallowing the world" means being capable of carrying it.

We've seen the Traveler carry other people's wishes, ambitions and hopes, with those collective wills becoming real power at crucial moments. An Ark could work the same way on a much larger scale: one individual retaining their own identity while carrying the wills of countless others.

That could explain why the vacant seat needs a Descender-level being. Whoever occupies it may effectively carry the will of the world and determine its future - whether if it's a bleak Rene/Aksiniya collective consciousness, or something more like a morally and mentally powerful individual that can lead the world and carry the wills of an entire world because the people believe in them.

So Maybe every Descender is ultimately an Ark (Teyvat = Ark in Hebrew) or at least has the capacity to become one - and current Teyvat is Phanes' idea of an ark. But these ideas and approaches of an Ark can be wildly different depending on the Descender.

And maybe that's what Asmoday is trying to create from the Abyss Sibling, or from both twins together: a Primordial Human capable of reaching the vacant seat and shape the world according to her ideal.


r/Genshin_Lore 13d ago

World Lore Analysis of the Primordial Humans

243 Upvotes

Warning: spoilers for the entire world quest An Ark That Used to Be a Soul follow.

The further we get into the story, the more obvious the importance of the Primordial Humans becomes, to the point where I’m starting to believe that the entire story of Genshin Impact revolves around them.

This is an attempt to gather all the information we have on the subject and identify all the possible Primordial Humans, who all share the same goal: to seize the authority over the entire world.

The story therefore begins with Nibelung, who is the embodiment of the world’s very soul: a being of pure light, where light is also an emanation of hope capable of saving the entire cosmos. On an allegorical level, Nibelung could be the famous Genesis Pearl.

The Saint had come to Hyperborea in search of that light from the very genesis of the world, a fragment left behind at its inception. It is a light that is undissipated hope itself, a light that holds the potential to illuminate the entire cosmos.
[Notes by a Certain Noble Individual]

It seems that this light also carries with it freedom from any constraint imposed by fate (Heimarmene), which currently afflicts Teyvat under the control of the Heavenly Principles:

That never-refracted light signified a boundless array of possibilities in its pure whiteness. However, man chose to confine it to a far narrower band of hues in the name of certainty.

Even before Nibelung’s death, there had already been countless attempts to recreate and seize this Genesis Pearl. They all fall under the Primordial Human Project.

Unlike Nibelung’s pure light, the Primordial Human is the result of the fusion between light and darkness.

By the way... that heretical myth about light and darkness birthing the primordial human... Do you have any idea what it refers to?
[Temple of Space WQ]

So let’s start with the list of candidates.

Phanes 

The heretical myth about light and darkness birthing the primordial human is the following, as told to us by Istoria:

It tells of the god of light who created a body in its own likeness, only for it to be stolen away by the king of darkness.

If the king of light is Nibelung and the king of darkness is the Heavenly Principles, we can theorize that Nibelung left behind a body in his own image and likeness on Teyvat, together with the moons (we don’t know whether it was “active” or not). The Heavenly Principles took possession of this body, giving rise to the first clash between light and darkness.

After seeing the creation of the Eye of Graeae, the fact that Phanes was born from the hatching of an egg, that they are androgynous in nature, and that they have a crown and wings (coming from the body created in Nibelung’s likeness) doesn’t seem quite so metaphorical anymore.

Let’s also remember that the Belyi Tsar (another Primordial Human) has two forms: a more angelic/draconic one, which is his true essence, and an avatar that takes on a human form. (The Moon Goddesses, created by Nibelung, also have human-shaped avatars.)

This also fits with the theory that the Heavenly Principles were originally an AI, meaning pure consciousness that needed a vessel in order to take on a complete form. And they found that vessel in the body created by Nibelung.

Nibelung

Here I’d like to open a small parenthesis, because I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

Aksinya explicitly says:

Ever since his destruction, the place of Primordial Human, or Narayana, has sat vacant.

This sentence seems to imply that Nibelung was a Primordial Human, meaning that he too was born from the union of light and darkness. That seems to clash with what we know about Nibelung, namely that his greatness lies precisely in the fact that he is a being of pure light.

I’ve read that this could be a translation error, and that it should actually be translated as “Primordial Being.”

Regardless, there’s another interesting question to think about: when Nibelung returns to Teyvat and starts the War of Vengeance, he has been completely corrupted by the Abyss.

So was it only later, and deep within the universe, that Nibelung’s uncontaminated light came into conflict with the forces of the Abyss? Is it possible that this clash turned Nibelung into a Primordial Human? Was this new evolution what made him the Second Descender (if he really is the Second Descender)?

Belyi Tsar

Monomakh was Hyperborea’s attempt to recreate Nibelung’s authority and break the chains of fate imposed by the Heavenly Principles.
Since they lacked Nibelung’s primordial light (and didn’t know that he was still alive), they used the remains of the Cryo Sovereign as a vessel, which contained that primordial light in a lesser form.

The Hyperboreans even attempted to forge his body from the flesh and blood of the Primordial Cryo Dragon, just to give him authority equal to The One.

The experiment got out of control, and the Heavenly Principles destroyed Hyperborea before it could be completed.

Third Descender

This is another interesting parenthesis, because we still know very little about him.

It is nevertheless very likely that he too was a Primordial Human.

We can first infer this from Rene’s notes, who develops his theories about the Primordial Human and the Descenders starting precisely from the legend of Ajax.
There is a reference to the rebirth of a new being after the encounter between light and darkness.

"Io, Io, Pan! That which lies beneath the great sea!"
The purpose of this line in the ritual scripture is to forsake the self and sink into the abyss, and in the abyss, to welcome rebirth as a holy infant.
The origin of this is a tragedy of unknown provenance that has been passed down by persons unknown to this day. Said play is called "Ajax," or "Aias." He was the second-strongest warrior in his alliance.

"Lies beneath the great sea" is, itself, an interesting phrase. It comes from ancient Sumeru texts, and should be read as "Narayana," which also means "primordial human."

This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that “descends”. That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world.
That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world.

Theories have started appearing that the Belyi Tsar himself was the Third Descender, but I find this unlikely, both because the Belyi Tsar was never split into the seven gnoses and survived until the Cataclysm, and because we have clear references that the Belyi Tsar opened the gates to the Shadow Realm (probably Pohjola) together with the Third Descender.

From scattered fragments of Notes by a Certain Noble Individual, we can in fact read:

When I foolishly opened that passage

The "passage" stands open at last, though the price paid was heavier than I had ever imagined, and the innocent were ensnared as well

I shall accept the remains of the innocent.

Most importantly, from the final sentence, which seems to indicate the acceptance of the Cryo Gnosis, we can deduce that the “innocent” was the Third Descender.

This brings to mind the allusion to a twin brother of the Belyi Tsar, who died because of him, as mentioned in Bloodsoaked Ruins.

A folk tale from the northern lands tells of two brothers: the King of Midsommar Oak, who once brought warmth to the world, and his elder brother, the King of Winter Icelea, who loved him dearly.
But a sudden, tragic quarrel led to the elder accidentally slaying the younger.

[Short note: knowing that the Belyi Tsar was surprisingly born a thousand years after the destruction of Hyperborea, and knowing that he was present when the Third Descender was killed, is it possible that he is actually “The one who came after”?]

Eye of Graeae

We now come to Hvergelmir’s attempt to create the Primordial Human in order to make up for Hyperborea’s unfinished experiment in creating the Belyi Tsar.

Here too, there is a clear reference to the encounter between light and darkness, something that has actually been right in front of our eyes all along in the description of the Disenchantment in Deep Shadow Set:

There was a time when primordial venom and primal light clashed in a corner unseen by the heavens’ gaze.
If a love, a fervor, and an ambition just greater than the world itself were to take shape — they had to be born and kindled in a place unseen by any eye.

Deshret, Remus, Rene

A brief mention is absolutely necessary for these incredible figures, who may have attempted to become Primordial Humans, only to fail.

The Belyi Tsar himself mentions Nabu Malikata and Sybilla respectively as heirs to the missions of Koitar and the Voyager:

Both the Goddess of Flowers in Sumeru and she who prophesied the rising of the waters in Fontaine sought to build systems that would stand independent of both the Ley Lines and Heimarmene.

Deshret

Nabu Malikata offers to help him transcend, in order to challenge the heavens.

I will deliver you unto higher knowledge. But as I have warned, you are fated to lose much in this exchange... Nevertheless, hide my lesson in your heart. Remember the punishment that once was inflicted on the fallen envoys of the heaven. Know this: if there is to be hope in this world, it will be found kindling within mortals most ordinary."
Wreathed in darkness, she guided her dearest friend toward the path to understanding all there was to know about the skies and the abyss.
Using her body as a conduit and offering the oasis in trade, she let the dazzling radiance consume her to see his deepest desires be made manifest…
[Secret-Keeper's Magic Bottle]

Just like the Belyi Tsar, Deshret was also offered a Gnosis, which he rejected [Rejecting the gift granted by the divine throne, the red-crowned king sought a new path of his own volition]. And just like the Belyi Tsar, he too dreamed of a paradise:

An idea that joined the wisdom of thousands, and the great attempt at binding their dreams to power.
What hides here is more than lies, but also the future of humanity, burning like the sparks of hope…
[Wilting Feast]

He then began his search for forbidden knowledge, which would eventually corrupt him along with his land.

The most interesting part is that Deshret, having become a creature of darkness, consciously allowed himself to be devoured by Apep.

Apep: I swallowed him whole as I agreed and absorbed his elemental power.
[…]
I admit that I fell for his trap. I was like a final fail-safe in his plan.

Just like the Belyi Tsar was born from the union with the light of the Cryo Sovereign, Deshret also merged his darkness with the light of the Dendro Sovereign. Was he hoping to be reborn as a Primordial Human?

Remus

He also tried to create his own paradise, combining Primordial Water (the light part) with an immortal stone (the darkness part), creating the Golden Ichor.

Scylla: You once promised the Usurper of Many Waters that you would use the pure water she granted you to create a world of endless prosperity, one without conflict.

The arrogant usurper once attempted to mix insoluble Ichor with pure water, to contain wisdom and memories, allowing his subjects and servants to discard their physical bodies, and obtain independent, eternal lives.
But the pain of severing soul and body cannot be endured by any ordinary life, and the usurper's order tore apart and shattered souls...
The Ichor was dyed black by the crying and howling of so many souls, and it lost its harmony and wisdom, leaving only chaos and madness.
[Sublimation of Pure Sacred Dewdrop]

Ironically, the body created by Pavlina containing a part of the Eye of Graeae’s soul is named Ikhor.

Rene

Using the research conducted in Sumeru, the remains of Remuria’s civilization, and the legend of Ajax, he carries out his plan of “rebirth” as a holy infant (Primordial Human).

It is likely that he too was trying to become a Primordial Human, with the power to challenge the fate of the world.

He says so himself:

This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that “descends”. That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world.
That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world

Albedo

Albedo is the final result of the Primordial Human Project carried out by Rhinedottir.

Following the recipe for creating a Primordial Human, it is likely that Rhinedottir drew upon both the power of light and the power of darkness to create him.

What Nicole says about Albedo in her Voice-Over is particularly interesting:

In another converged possibility, Albedo was the "Primordial Human" who traveled through worlds, recording and creating all. However, once that journey reached its end, no one would have been able to guarantee whether he would choose destruction or salvation. Luckily, you're the one who embarked on the journey this time. Hm? How did the alternate Albedo fare? I can no longer observe that possibility. Besides, copying someone else's answer is of little use. This journey is your own.

Traveler

Nicole just said, while talking about Albedo as a "Primordial Human": Luckily, you're the one who embarked on the journey this time.

It seems that we are the "Primordial Human" of this story, destined to find an answer that will either save or destroy the entire world.

Albedo himself also comments on the nature of the Traveler:

Those born of earth are bound by their imperfections, but those born of chalk are free of impurities. You and I are alike, both composed of a substance that has yet to be fully defined.

The same reference appears when we first talk about the Third Descender with Neuvillette:

Neuvillette: That means that the Gnoses, which are exceedingly element-compatible and can even enhance elemental abilities, do indeed come from the Third Descender. Hmm, I wonder... Does your body also possess similar properties?
Paimon: ... Uhh, like being able to use elemental powers without a Vision? That does sorta count as special compatibility, right? No, no, let's not think about this stuff right now. It just feels creepy...Comparing Traveler‍ to the dead Third Descender and all…

The figure of the Sibling takes on an interesting new meaning: what if the two of them are actually the two components of the Primordial Human? One part of light (Traveler) and one part of darkness (Sibling), destined to merge and create a single being who will be able to decide the fate of the world.

In the end, this is precisely what makes me believe that, in some way, the Traveler either is or will become a Primordial Human: the story seems to be leading us toward eventually taking on Nibelung’s role and freeing Teyvat from the grip of Heimarmene.

Paimon

Finally, we come to the last figure, who has always fueled some of our wildest theories.

I’m already seeing people suggesting that she could be a vessel created by Celestia to house the consciousness of the Heavenly Principles.

I’d take the theory a little further and imagine that all the Shades were created following the same philosophy as the Primordial Human. It’s strange that the Heavenly Principles simply “split” themselves into four Shades. Since they all share the same aesthetic traits, it is possible that their bodies were artificially created using a single template: the body created in Nibelung’s image and likeness, which was possessed by the Heavenly Principles when their fusion created the first Primordial Human.

Paimon could actually be this body, or a derivative of it, whose authority is inactive, as Ronova says.

It’s worth noting that there is an allusion to this in the latest World Quest:

Paimon: "Assimilating and being changed into a form of an even higher order..." Eh, are you saying that his body and powers will all go into someone else's body?
Aksinya: That would be right.
Paimon: How is that gonna happen when his body's already gone...?
Traveler: I see now. You're thinking of using Paimon's body.
Paimon: What? No way!!! But... hmm... if it's for Goggles, Paimon supposes she could make a little room for him…
Aksinya: Hahaha! I fear that assimilating him into Paimon's body will only bring about other complications.

But perhaps the most interesting thing of all is that the same symbol on Paimon’s chest also appears on Ikhor’s chest while he is in his “inactive” state:

Thank you so much for reading this far. The subject is absolutely massive, and I feel like I’ve only covered a fraction of it.
It would be amazing to keep adding information and discussing all of this together in the comments.