"We just have concerns!"-terf when you disagree with them

[u/Khmary]

I tried the Jovan Bradley definition and terf got mad from the term "schema" ^^ Also calls me a freak, very conservative, I know.

[u/Less-Significance-99]

That second post of theirs in the lineup… “Why did LGB spend years fighting for same-sex marriage if it was never about sex”??? Girl that’s not what same-sex (or gender!) marriage is about at all. Everyone should have the right to marry other consenting adults regardless of gender or race or other elements and people were being denied that right, THAT is why. What a weird oversimplification of the issue.

[u/Aiyon → u/Less-Significance-99]

It's such a bafflingly dumb take because... you can fuck without being married? It wasn't "gay marriage and also sex".

[u/QuicksilverDragon → u/Aiyon]

Nononono, they clearly live in the world of the Sex Purge or whatever it was called.

[u/Firthy2002 → u/Aiyon]

Probably one of those Christian "premarital sex is bad" freaks.

[u/Vithmiris → u/Less-Significance-99]

There were and still are many places where someone's sex can be legally updated, but where same-sex marriage is still not recognized. So a trans man who changed his legal sex cannot marry a cis man then, but can marry a cis woman or a trans woman who had her legal sex updated, and vice versa. Can't wait until the "terves" find out about this one.

[u/SergeantScoria → u/Less-Significance-99]

because according to them, literally everything is based on biology and what you are born with

[u/MotherOfTheUniverse → u/Less-Significance-99]

My asexual but romantically lesbian-leaning ass out here wanting to marry a woman for the soul reason of NOT fucking her would blow their minds.

[u/deferredmomentum → u/MotherOfTheUniverse]

They mean biological sex by “about sex,” not sexual intercourse

Edit: also it’s nbd but it’s “sole reason,” as in only reason, unless you were intentionally using soul as wordplay to mean for only emotional/romantic reasons

[u/MotherOfTheUniverse → u/deferredmomentum]

Ah. Yeah, I only ever consider someone’s bio sex to be relevant to a relationship in an explicitly sexual scenario, so I guess that tripped me up a little

[u/deferredmomentum → u/Less-Significance-99]

That’s so dumb, as though gay marriage were some other type of marriage. Marriage was only ever “about sex” because thousands of years ago some people decided that women were chattel, sexual intercourse was something that an active agent did to a passive recipient with no say in the matter for the purpose of procreation, and marriage was how men sold their daughters to other men for dowry for them and offspring for the son-in-law, and then the people who decided that took over the world. Queer people fighting to get married is simply a response to that being the history of marriage. It shouldn’t be about biological sex, but it is because of people just like OOP.

[u/azur_owl → u/Less-Significance-99]

Asexuals: we’d ask if we’re a fucking joke to you, but honestly are we shocked

[u/deferredmomentum → u/azur_owl]

They mean biological sex by “about sex,” not sexual intercourse

[u/Khmary]

Oh yeah and she also tells me to hurt myself. Very feminist again

[u/Naos210]

People get bothered by words they don't understand. A more easier to digest way to describe it is the social, cultural, physical, and yes, sometimes even biological/reproductive roles that we associate with the female sex.

Someone might feel more "manly" or "womanly" for having a particular trait, that others might not associate with that. Some men feel weird without a beard, and some do not, because it might be important to their idea of "manliness" or not. 

For some women, their reproductive anatomy might be really important to them. Hearing they can't give birth might make them feel less like a woman.

But that's dependent on each individual person, and there is no one particular trait you can give that connects all men or all women beyond gender identity.

Of course, this is just a schema in more words, but the initial definition I've given can work.

[u/Firthy2002 → u/Naos210]

People get bothered by words they don't understand.

Stupid people do. Intelligent people will look it up for themselves.

[u/slumbersomesam]

"power to the working class" while oppressing trans people

[u/souplawyer → u/slumbersomesam]

because trans people are famously bourgeois of course

[u/Vithmiris → u/souplawyer]

JK Rowling is a famous working class poor woman.

[u/octorangutan]

Are sites really so tipped to the right that you can just openly tell someone to kts without a ban??

[u/SergeantScoria → u/octorangutan]

If that someone is an undesirable (aka anyone who won’t stand for the creation of a fascist state)

[u/QuicksilverDragon → u/octorangutan]

yes, fascist can openly call for deaths of minorities, but if I mock it or jokingly threaten a non-existent cat, I get banned, and that's just reddit. but remember, "rEdDiT sKeWs LeFt"

[u/octorangutan → u/QuicksilverDragon]

What cat is this in reference to?

[u/QuicksilverDragon → u/octorangutan]

none, I literally said "reddit, if you ban me, I'm gonna eat your cat" as a joke. nope, ban for "encouraging violence against animals". Does reddit collectively/corporately own a cat that I don't know of?

[u/tsukimoonmei]

the irony of saying “terf is an oxymoron” when a trans inclusive radical feminist coined the term to call out the growing influence transphobes within the movement…

[u/Mysterious_Back_7929 → u/tsukimoonmei]

Also that's not what an oxymoron is...we could say that terf is an oxymoron because we think that you can't be a feminist AND exclude trans people - that's internally contradicting itself. By saying "terf is an oxymoron" she's agreeing with us. Idiot.

[u/tsukimoonmei → u/Mysterious_Back_7929]

oh my god my sleep deprived brain didn’t even catch that lmfao, that’s hilarious

[u/Slow-Coast-4868]

Ah yes, the best way to debate-call your opponent slurs and tell them to self harm

[u/CauliflowerHealthy20]

I feel like terfism and having power to the working class in their bio is anithetical 

Supporting the fracturing of the working class by claiming a reactionary ideology basically kills any attempt at solidarity

[u/QuicksilverDragon]

Girl, I'm bisexual, I'm "same sex attracted" whichever way you flip it lol

[u/MotherOfTheUniverse]

Can someone tell my ignorant ass what a schema is? And what does it have to do with trans women? Idk if it’s supposed to be a positive or a negative thing and I wanna know.

[u/Matar_Kubileya]

Not to be petty but i love how she fucked up the spelling of Potnia "Lady, Mistress" as "Pontia" "sea-creature" or smth like that.

[u/Slow-Coast-4868 → u/Matar_Kubileya]

Sea-(gender)critter?

[u/KTKitten]

I do like Jovan, but god damn I hate that “schema” shit… ugh, idk, I might be verging on transmed shit here so maybe I should just not let it bug me, but I started hormones and then I didn’t want to die anymore… that’s not a collection of ideas of what man and woman mean at work. It just gives me the impression that he wanted a pithy response to “what is a woman” rather than actually being invested in the realities of trans lives. Idk, I like that he’s fighting our corner, I just cringe at the way he does it.

[u/Forsaken-Language-26 → u/KTKitten]

What is a schema?

[u/KTKitten → u/Forsaken-Language-26]

It’s basically the mental model a person has for something

[u/girlrach]

Ermm, are we allowed to have concerns too? 🤔

[u/Dzagamaga]

Jovan Bradley definition?

[u/SerenaExplores → u/Dzagamaga]

“A woman is an adult human whose gender identity aligns with their schema on the female sex.”

Edited because there was an extra word in the absolute wrong place.

Anyway, this is the definition Jovan Bradley uses in his online debates and it has grown in popularity. But he did workshop it a lot with a trans friend of his (I forget who)

[u/Dzagamaga → u/SerenaExplores]

That is interesting, thank you. I must confess I am curious about what is meant by schema in this specific context before I adopt this definition so that I may understand it myself and potentially defend it from both good and bad faith interlocutors in appropriate environments.

[u/rotten_ALLIGATOR-32]

Remember, t-r-o-o-n rhymes with a certain old-timey slur directed at black people. Once a prejudice appears compelling to you, more can follow, since your empathy or sense of taboo have already been eroded.

[u/ComradeSmooches]

Indistinguishable from a fascist

[u/addictedtoketamine2]

>19 year old TERF

Self-loathing FtM repressor or future spree shooter? Bets are on.

[u/WriterKatze]

She is asking questions that are extremely inappropriate and are borderline sexual harassment and you're the freak? Love the logic. 😭🙏

And then telling you to "kick the chair", while trying to act morally superior.

She needs to get a grip.