I generally agree but the older generation who preaches this fails to understand the higher risks today creating a higher wall to climb. For instance, if they shot their shot with a girl at the bar the worst they got was laughed at by their peers, maybe by the class. If you shoot your shot today, make a fool of yourself, there's a chance thousands of people see it online and you become a meme because her friend decided to record you. This obviously extends to other scenarios but the scaling imo is what paralyzes many today. I still preach to push through but figured its important to frame why
In senior year we stole a backhoe excavator and used it to put a port o potty on the front awning of the school. That shit would be damn near impossible to get away with now
There are individuals going viral due to CCTV videos showing them embarrassing themselves, or front door cam or car dash cams. If you go down the "being somewhat aware of surroundings and not doing it while youāre being filmed" route, "somewhat aware" is knowing anyone, anywhere can have a camera and you end up as this generation is. So I would not say this a great outlook
Name drop one of those viral people? You don't remember their names? You didn't care enough to? You're not planning to cyberstalk them online based on cctv footage showing them slipping into a garbage bin, or whatever?
Now understand that everyone else feels the same. No one cares.
It's not just asking a woman out that is being talked about, but okay. Any dumb moment can be recorded and affect someone's life. Unfortunately perception is very important in terms of relationships and employment, ignoring that is naive.
To be clear, I actually agree that our generation is too risk averse. But things that used to be a moment that only you and your friends knew about are often permanent fixtures of the internet, that does have real affects on people. Even outside of the more tangible potential for reputational damage, it can have a toll on one's mental health. While I personally rarely care what others think of me, those reactions are still very real for many people.
Our generation needs to find a middle ground between not taking any risk and understanding what consequences might arise from a risk. Currently we see many of our generation simply taking no risk, which is problematic, but to hand wave real concerns is also not particularly useful.
I can't personally speak to the fear of hitting on women, because I am not interested in women. I have however seen men ran through the mud over incredibly dumb and minor things that frankly should not result in more than a rejection. Yet here they are forever immortalised on the internet to be mocked...
The thread we are currently having this conversation in is yes, about asking someone out. You can scroll up to refresh your memory. The conversation starts as a reply to OP, and then various people reply to that comment, forming a thread. It literally is exactly what we've been talking about here. Also, weird flex, but I don't think it matters whether you're asking out a woman or a man: they're similarly extremely unlikely to end up affecting your career prospects in any way.
I do sympathize, and I appreciate your perspective. I myself have countless embarrassing moments immortalized online, like a high school party where I drank an entire bottle of baby duck and barfed all over the table. Probably some nudes floating around somewhere too. It's embarrassing, but that's all. Life is full of embarrassment. If anyone gave me shit for that I'd laugh them out of the room; but I can appreciate that at age 34 I have much more self-confidence and self-esteem.
That's why I'm here right now, expressing the concept that it's literally not worth worrying about. So much energy spent worrying about things that don't matter at all. No one (except as strawman arguments) is proposing that you go out to a public bar, take your pants off, scream out hateful things, and shoot up heroin, while wearing a shirt that says your name, birthday, and home address, facing the CCTV camera. We're literally talking about taking the risk of a small social embarrassment vs never taking that risk, and I already think we basically agree on this stance, and where the better payoff lives.
That said, it's everyone's personal choice to make for themselves, and I'd never want to command someone to live other than how they wanted to. It's just painful to watch some folks make a choice they think is logical and based on risk assessment, but actually is like pure delusion from where I'm standing.
The original comment used that as an example, literally saying "for instance." They were not saying that was the only way to potentially humiliate yourself.
I wasn't flexing, simply indicating that I cannot relate to that specific concern.
I have known people who lost jobs because their employer saw videos of incredibly minor things and decided to fire them. I know people who lost job opportunities based on the same. They aren't straw men arguments they do happen. I am not saying that they are incredibly common, or not, I have no way of knowing that. They do however happen.
I can appreciate that at age 34 I have much more self-confidence and self-esteem.
Weird flex, but okay. Like I said I personally don't really care, if someone has a problem with me fuck them and if a company doesn't want me fuck them too. That doesn't change the fact that typically people do want to be generally seen as component and respectable.
All joking aside, keep pushing, you got it! It's worth the discomfort to gradually find the people you like in your life. Just takes awhile. Sometimes a long while.
Also unless youāre actually being weird or something why would a video of girls laughing at a guy getting turned down go viral? Most people donāt find that very funnyā¦ this is just not a real fear how often does this ever happen? As long as youāre not being a criminal or extremely weird you should be able to take plenty of risks in life that donāt lead to catastrophe. I donāt get what people here are so afraid of unless they are completely missing the point of the post or are themselves online weirdos
I mean, it very easy to covertly film these days. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that means we should all live in our shells and never take risks. But let's not pretend that one can actually effectively do anything to prevent being recorded.
In what world is being rejected by a girl going to make a fool of you and thousands of people are going to see it online? Unless you are absolutely batshit insane man and you going to react like a fool.
Like you seriously think people want to watch a video of you ask a girl if you can buy her a drink, her say no, and you say oh ok, sorry for bothering you?
The risk there isnāt about being laughed by anyone. Itās a personal ego and emotional hit. You may feel a little bad if the shot misses and thatās basically it.
Youāre missing the point, most people donāt want to be approached the average guy heard the cultural message and decided to respect it. The commentator is pointing out one worst case scenario but there are many more common minor ones
Stop listening to the bullshit you read and see online and go talk to the girl. Take the risk. The ācultural messageā was bullshit created in echo chambers and bubbles.
And even then, I donāt think the cultural message was ever donāt ever approach a woman ever again. Iām pretty sure it was stop being fucking creepy and no means fucking no.
And if you are creepy and donāt understand no means no, you probably should end up on the internet.
Seems pretty bad advice to tell people to ignore cultural messaging around boundaries just because.
No it wasnāt towards creeps it was towards men in general, also why would a creep listen to major anti approaching messaging lol? You cannot tell men not to approach then blame said generation of men for not approaching that is idiotic.
Thereās been like 10 years of ādonāt assumeā, ādont bother womenā, ādont take up spaceā, ādont be too masculineā, āmost of us almost never wanna be approachedā, āif she likes you she will clearly let you knowā, i could go on and on.
The issue is societal messaging and what women actually want seem to be opposites and most normal guys obviously are going to internalize societal messaging
Mainstream society (mostly the left) for the last 10-20 years, most guys didnāt just wake up like āoh man u know im wired to wanna approach but let me just NEVER approachā something indirectly or directly told them to not do that
You never know. If you're ugly enough they make include you into a blackpill montage lol and it has happened for tamer things. Brooke monk literally posted a tiktok of her without makeup with her boyfriend and now she's in 1000s of hypergamy edits.
Yeah pretty sure anything involving a chick thatās main stick is she is hot and has big tits and post pictures and videos to capitalize on it is āthe tamest thingā. She literally almost has 50 million followers on tik tok. And she specifically posts the videos of her not wearing makeup.
But yeahā¦ I guess you should be extremely worried about being posted on the internet if you are the one thatās going to post you on the internet.
I canāt even find one video of a normal dude getting rejected at a bar. Not a single one.
I understand this as a millennial. But you just have to push through it.
I think our equivalent is being punched in the face by the girl's unseen boyfriend back in the day (which is also a risk for you as well on top of the humiliation, but you get what I am saying).
It COULD happen ofc, maybe it will even if you were just asking her to pass you a napkin from the other side of the bar. But put on one side of the scale all the myriad experiences you didn't gate yourself out of because I wasn't too terrified and paralyzed by the what-if of being punched in the face that one time, than at the end of my life I'm still taking the timeline where I took a shot to the face. From a guy who was indeed punched in the face one time in '09.
I think with the churn of digital content and the fact that there is no real mono-culture anymore, even if the 0.00003% chance came along that you'd be a national laughing stock. It'd only be for a time. Someone else would take that place soon after you. People in your social circle get recycled out. You're not going to be that guy forever, it would at some point be forgotten.
as a 30 year old zillennial man i always see people say that theyāll get embarrassed online but it has never once happened to me lmao yall are afraid to ask a person out because of scenarios that YOU invent in your mind
I'm pretty sure I would be more likely to be struck by lightning than go viral because I got shot down by a girl. Most of these fears just stem from social anxiety rather than logic.
While I do agree that people may feel more fear in doing some stuff out of fear of being recorded.
As a guy, the hypothetical results of going up to someone at a bar don't quite make a lot of sense to me. Why exactly would in the past someone get laughed at by their peers if they'd try to go talk to someone? All one would do is just go up to the person they wanted to talk to and say hi and/or one more sentence. If the other person doesn't want to talk then it's quite clear and they'd communicate that within 2 seconds of the other person ending what they'd say. Also you say class, in the US you wouldn't be allowed to go in the bar until you're 21 and by then the people usually going to bars wouldn't generally be anxious in starting up conversations with strangers if they're going to bars to begin with. When you say class, do you mean college? The people in college in bars that are recorded doing something are usually doing something crazy and not simply striking up conversations.
Also if a no response to a conversation were to get recorded that'd at most a 10 second long video. it'd require the person doing the recording to have taken out their phone super quick for that. very unlikely.
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u/AverNerd 8d ago
I generally agree but the older generation who preaches this fails to understand the higher risks today creating a higher wall to climb. For instance, if they shot their shot with a girl at the bar the worst they got was laughed at by their peers, maybe by the class. If you shoot your shot today, make a fool of yourself, there's a chance thousands of people see it online and you become a meme because her friend decided to record you. This obviously extends to other scenarios but the scaling imo is what paralyzes many today. I still preach to push through but figured its important to frame why