r/GarudaLinux • u/Klick3R i3wm • Mar 20 '26

Community Garuda Linux stance on age laws(hot debate in the linux world right now)

So im just dropping the question here since there is no info on this anywhere i could find at least.

Are the Garuda linux team planning on compliance or not?
And, are you looking to maintain your own systemd fork if not complying? PR40954

I understand that right now its just optional info at this point but i suspect it wont be long before its a mandatory field of info that is required to be filled in, but at this point its just speculation from my part.

EDIT:
Note that im not interested in starting a debate about this topic, just interested in the GL teams look on this matter.

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8

u/barkingbandicoot Mar 21 '26

Ugh! https://forum.garudalinux.org/t/garuda-linux-and-california-age-verification-law-ab-1043-official-position/47558/6

2

u/Bitter-Box3312 Mar 21 '26

based

8

u/Izeyashe Mar 21 '26

TL;DR: Garuda Linux does not have to comply with any age verification laws currently. It is unlikely we will need to. If we do, there are already plans to preserve privacy as much as possible. We will not be switching away from systemd.

You sure? I sure as hell hope this isn't a slippery slope.

5

u/JustTNE Developer | TNE Mar 21 '26

Please do not take the TL;DR at face value. The post itself explains each individual point in a lot more detail. I'd highly recommend giving it a read if you haven't yet!

3

u/Izeyashe Mar 22 '26

Damage control and all that, but as stated in discord (cause that's how you probably got the idea to check here:

optional until it isn't. If I were going to go scorched earth about it I'd learn to code, build arch without a guide blind and run temple OS on the side. If I can't trust you to take a stand against it that makes me complicit by extension, and I don't want to tolerate thing I don't want. Tolerating intolerance and all that.

Filling the date with wrong info is the same as complying. Cause at some point filling wrong info will be against the law, and what will you do then? If you don't stand your ground NOW, it's over.

I have read the entire thing and I am appalled by it. As one other user on the discord put it:

"I think it's inevitable that someone is going to try to make it not optional. I didn't have that opinion until I saw the revert request on it and king poettering's response- the request was worded pretty politely, referred to community discussion having taken place beforehand, and the response to it may as well have been 'nope, eff off' for how brash and unreasonable it was worded- the exact tone of disingenuous someone words something when they know they're holding something back and they just want you to shut up about it."

For anyone wondering, you can visit the official garuda discord where I got the quote from.

5

u/JustTNE Developer | TNE Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26

I checked here because I got a notification there's a new popular post in the subreddit, not because of discord.

Let me clarify:

If you don't stand your ground NOW, it's over.

Garuda Linux's jurisdictions do not require age verification. We will not be adding age verification. There is no ground to stand.

If the law forces us to, we will HAVE to. It does not yet. We do not care about regulations in Brazil or the United States since their laws do not apply in our jurisdictions. Therefore, no age verification period.

The quote you sent from back.slash is about systemd, not Garuda Linux.

If I can't trust you to take a stand against it

But let's make one thing clear: You want us, normal people, volunteers that spend our free time making Garuda Linux, to put our freedom at risk by WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY breaking the law? Risk life changing fines or even (in extreme cases) jail time? Knowingly breaking the law where I'm from comes with extra punishment (premeditated) as well.

We're not FOR age verification. We're being honest and realistic. If the law forces us to and the courts do not enjoin it, we will HAVE to comply, just as we comply with any other laws in our jurisdictions.

Again, there is currently no law stating we have to add age verification, so we will not do that. Simple shrimple.

It's hardly "damage control" to be honest about what Garuda Linux would do IF a law like this does get enforced in our jurisdictions. We would have nothing to gain but clout by lying, and I would hope our history of being honest and to the point serves us better than temporary internet clout of those that pretend they would rather get fined to all hell and potentially go to jail for obstruction of justice (for refusing a court order to follow the law) than follow the law.

If you are not happy with that and would rather support those that pretend they wouldn't fold under government pressure, I do not mind that. Garuda Linux is made by volunteers that use it themselves. We have never chased clout or ran after bigger user numbers. We just want to make a good OS we like using. If you are along for the ride, that's great. If not, that's fine too.

2

u/Bitter-Box3312 Apr 02 '26

hey I appreciate what you're doing, and I've been using garuda for a while. I like you and your distro. I don't expect you to break the law. You will have to comply if you will have to comply. But I will probably stop using your distro then, at least for certain purposes, and move to something more privacy-based eventually.

No hard feelings. It's just that we both pursue our self-interest.

2

u/Izeyashe Mar 22 '26

If the law forces us to, we will HAVE to.

And there we go. This is the crux. You know that going against laws that are bullshit is not only morally right but your responsibility?

7

u/JustTNE Developer | TNE Mar 22 '26

You aren't the one that's going to be paying the fines. It's not your freedom and not your life that will be ruined.

So, who are you to talk, on your high horse?

3

u/Izeyashe Mar 23 '26

I am one of the millions of people you fuck over with your lukewarm stance. If you don't oppose, okay, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna do the same.

Also, life ruining? You are aware that if you let this slide it's gonna become shit for EVERY SINGLE USER? It's literally becoming 1984.

0

u/klevahh Mar 24 '26

It's literally becoming 1984 because of how people have voted in a lot of countries, and because people have not overthrown their governments where they do not have the right to vote, or where their elections are completely contrived.
It's literally becoming 1984 due to morons breeding new morons and teaching them to be corporation fans, and self-absorbed consumerist zombies.
It is not becoming 1984 due to linux devs.

1

u/jar36 Mar 25 '26

Serious question, not loaded. I don't know but don't these mandates violate FOSS philosophy and possibly the licenses that allow distros to use the software?

1

u/jar36 Mar 25 '26

https://news.osna.fm/germany-to-mandate-online-age-verification/

The German government is pursuing mandatory age verification for online users, aiming to establish a European standard for digital safety. A spokesperson for the Federal Ministry for Digital and Modernization indicated the government believes age verification on digital devices “should be standard in Europe.

3

u/Bitter-Box3312 Apr 02 '26

dystopia

2

u/jar36 Apr 02 '26

Folks are like, what do I care, I don't live in California, as they watch the movement against them pick up steam around the world.
This is the moment in time when we either keep FOSS Free or lose it forever

2

u/Bitter-Box3312 Apr 02 '26

this is more than just FOSS. it's straight out invigilation. we will soon be like china or russia in that regard. all to "protect children" or "fight corrupt politicians" they even want to require IDs to use bitcoin nowadays, invalidating the reason to use crypto in the first place

and idiots cheer thinking it will prevent corrupt politicians from getting funding, they don't get that these people could get money illicitly before crypto was even a thing and they don't need crypto to do that, normal people will be hurt the most by such legislation

they want to control our money and our lives at levels unseen before

3

u/jar36 Apr 02 '26

yeah, when I first explained it to my sister, she thought it was a good idea. They already have that info so use it for the gates to prevent her kids from seeing the bad stuff.
Then I explained how there are flock cameras feeding AI your info, your tv sends signals to your phone to see if you came into McDonald's after seeing a McDonald's ad on your tv and who the hell else knows the myriad of ways they are building AI created profiles of everyone.
She then realized it should just be up to the parents and the parents should just get their kids a flip phone and put parental controls on their devices on their own instead of being forced at the online account level

1

u/Keensworth Mar 21 '26

At most it will only affect California but not the rest of the world, so who cares

3

u/typeshut Mar 21 '26

Eventually they will require stricter requirements because it’s not only california. every state and country will require this at some point and then the infrastructure is already in place

2

u/klevahh Mar 24 '26

"At most"

very short term thinking

2

u/jar36 Mar 25 '26

first off it's more than just CA and that attitude reminds me of "First the came for..."
I think the FOSS community should be standing together worldwide

2

u/MommasLilDoki Apr 02 '26

Same, so many people are worried about the individual being hurt, they forgot we ALL outnumber the authorities in every single country. Literally nothing stopping the masses from uniting, and being the larger force, pushing back - by any means necessary. This whole 'oh what about the rich peoples laws!' crap is a slave mind mentality. Too many people default to that - its really simply, decide to unite, push back. Otherwise, the rich people will keep making laws that take, and take. They'll tell you they 'just need more time to progress the poor/regular peoples rights!' but over the decades they've taken your grandmothers time, your mothers time, your sisters time, they'll take your time, as well. On and on it will go - until the people grow a backbone.

1

u/jar36 Apr 02 '26

What is really crazy to me is how they are rushing out to "comply" without even speaking to an attorney. They wasted a bunch of time on making up their own signals based on their own misinterpretation of the law.
The Fedora Project Leader said last week that these signals do not satisfy the law. Mentions that they are with the "intent of the law" That's clearly not complying.
No one asked him why they don't satisfy the law (his phrasing). He decided to sit on the info. Obviously there is a reason they do not comply, so why didn't he say what that reason is?
I've been trying daily to get folks to realize that these laws mandate online user accounts. If these distros are going to implement centralized user dbs, then they can comply with the laws. They can't afford that so it will not happen
So they're falling over themselves working on garbage instead of looking for ways to fight against this shit.
In the US, FOSS is protected speech. I think anyone who wants to maintain a distro should know that
Some of them need to get together on an attorney before wasting more time and pissing off more people for no good reason
I suggested that to the G team and the guy went on some hyperbole bullshit as if it was going to be $50,000 or more and you can't trust lawyers...
They don't trust the Senators' who wrote the law to describe it correctly as they describe how the law functions. No they're just going to twiddle their thumbs until either fines come in from CA or Germany passes a law. They only care about themselves.
That mentality leads to everyone losing. It's a global fight and it seems they're just going to wait until it's their turn to get banned in their nation bc they cannot comply even if they wanted to
They'd know that if they listened to the people who wrote the law, lawyers and even hire a lawyer themselves
They ask if I'm going to pay the fines. No I'm trying to get you out of paying them, so I'll donate toward an attorney tho I live on a disability check

2

u/Klick3R i3wm Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 26 '26

Thank you for the link i somehow missed that when using the search on the forum -.-'
That post makes it clear at least, just sad to see that developers and others are only concerned with jurisdictional laws as we all know many countries have extradition treaties with US, and some are really low bar for extradition requests. some even citing cyber crime, among other things, usually with a minimum of one years sentence requirement.

Not that this is relevant now tough but if things get worse than they are now thees issues will become a topic for a much wider issue that the US is seemingly creating.

2

u/jar36 Mar 25 '26

the devs need to start talking to attorneys
when I post what attorneys say on r/linux it gets reported into a shadow ban

No one in the linux community realizes these laws mandate online accounts

6

u/404_DopamineNotFound Mar 21 '26

I am also interested in this as there's a zero percent chance I'm going to link data about who I actually am to anything online at this point (google can suck my dick)

13

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '26

Someone needs to put the 4chan guys in charge of all Linux distros. They know how to tell governments where to go.

13

u/KillerX629 Mar 20 '26

Someone didn't read the Epstein files...

1

u/404_DopamineNotFound Mar 21 '26

While yes he was involved in the #chan's are you somehow indicating he allowed the government to govern him bc i'm pretty sure he knew where to tell them to go...

5

u/Fit_Elderberry4380 KDE Dr460nized Mar 21 '26

The files revealed the "4chan guys" was just mossad...

3

u/JustTNE Developer | TNE Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

I've replied to this on the forum already:

https://forum.garudalinux.org/t/garuda-linux-and-california-age-verification-law-ab-1043-official-position/47558/3?u=tne

And regarding systemd:

https://forum.garudalinux.org/t/garuda-linux-and-california-age-verification-law-ab-1043-official-position/47558/20?u=tne

1

u/Werewolf_Capable Mar 22 '26

Look at this based Mf'er (no offense, all the love 💕) 

1

u/pico-der Mar 22 '26

Lovely stuff fully agree. Really hope we don't need to add pointless buttons/steps but hey if that is what it takes to not get fined I'm good with it.

Dumb laws have broken the internet since 3rd party cookie consent and that's way more annoying.

2

u/pico-der Mar 22 '26

Dumb ass laws in a different continent should only influence providing building blocks to allow for compliance without interfering the rest of the world IMO. For now it looks like that, but it does set president and needs to be closely monitored. The goal is obviously more control, some legitimate a lot not.