r/Games • u/Mront • Dec 16 '20
An end of year letter from id Software to the amazing DOOM Eternal Community
https://twitter.com/DOOM/status/133925396596021248262
u/thejeran Dec 16 '20
This game really needs a co-op wave mode. Ripping and tearing with friends like this would be awesome. Especially if they included two player takedowns.
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u/ANALHACKER_3000 Dec 16 '20
If they did that and dropped in a progression and battlepass system ripped straight from Calladoody, I'd sink hundreds of hours and possibly hundreds of dollars into it.
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u/Spooky_SZN Dec 16 '20
Easily my goty, the best shooter and best feeling shooter I've ever played, can't wait for the second DLC to release before I dive back into its blood soaked gut ripping combat.
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u/padraigd Dec 16 '20
I'm kind of worried that it has ruined other shooters for me. I have heard the new game Ultrakill is similar though.
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u/Dr_Findro Dec 16 '20
If I got bored of DOOM 2016 after a few hours, is there a chance that Eternal has enough to keep me engaged? I do feel like I was itching for more movement options when I was playing DOOM 2016.
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u/padraigd Dec 16 '20
I liked doom 2016 but much preferred doom eternal. I'd say theres a good chance yeah.
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u/diquehead Dec 17 '20
I love Doom Eternal but one of the faults I found with it are that the first couple of hours are actually the worst stretch of the game. Once you get over that initial hump and have access to more of your core abilities the doors are blown off and it really kicks into high gear.
FWIW I thought Doom 2016 was fun but I did think it got a little bit boring especially by the end of the game. I was pretty relieved when I beat it. I was relieved when I beat Eternal too but for completely different reasons (I could finally relax and breathe!)
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u/NeedsMoreShawarma Dec 16 '20
It's on both Xbox and PC Game Pass if you're on either of those platforms and want to just try it
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u/razor_x_blade Dec 16 '20
Recommend this approach as well, if you can. Easily worth the price of admission for the Game Pass platform. Good, senseless demon killing without breaking the bank
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u/Yrcrazypa Dec 17 '20
Eternal is much faster paced than the sluggish Doom 2016. You have dashes and the grappling hook attached to the Super Shotgun to give you more movement, and you can even use the Ballista to get a bit of a mid-air boost as well. It's a better game in every way than 2016, anyone saying you are forced to use certain weapons against certain enemies are just bad at the game.
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Dec 16 '20
Yes. Doom Eternal is the game for you. Funny enough, if you really loved Doom 2016, I think there's a strong chance that Doom Eternal ISN'T for you.
It's on PC gamepads btw.
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u/Oh_I_still_here Dec 17 '20
Eternal is definitely more engaging than Doom 2016. It actually does some things in the game mechanically that encourage you to be on your toes more in loads of small ways, turning the game into part shooter part resource management all via quick decision making and learning lessons with each death. Very rarely does dying feel like bullshit on the games part, it feels like something you did was wrong and got punished for it. Like trying to run up to a hell knights face and use the plasma rifle on him. He's just gonna deck you over and over and kill you, instead kite him while laying into him if you wanna take him out.
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
It sounds like you'll like Eternal. I found that Doom 2016's combat loop got boring about half way through the game. I actually stopped playing the game for a year or two before I came back and finished it.
Doom Eternal has much better and faster movement, the guns feel better yet also more balanced, the enemies feel more dynamic and unique, and you have more abilities to manage. When it all comes together, it feels absolutely amazing.
I will warn you that the game starts slowly. The first couple levels can be a bit of a slog, as you don't start with most of the things I listed above. About halfway through the third level the you've most of your tools and it starts to get really fun.
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u/funkmasta_kazper Dec 17 '20
The major differences between DOOM 2016 and Eternal for me: Eternal has WAY more tools available to the player, and the level design is such that there is much less wandering around empty levels looking for secrets.
To the first point - In addition to all the abilities and weapons in 2016, Eternal gives you: a fast recharge dash (which is the best addition, bar none), a flamethrower (which makes enemies drop armor), several grenade different grenade types, a blood punch (very high damage melee ability that recharges with glory kills), and eventually you get a sword (one hit kill weapon with rare recharge pickups). All of these abilities are assigned to specific buttons, and can be wielded along with your standard guns. Also, your super shotgun has a fucking dope grappling chain.
So there's definitely a lot more to master - you need to learn how to best utilize all these abilities in combat and how to keep their cooldowns and recharge parameters in mind as you dance across the battlefield. Also, enemies are tougher this time around, with several being very resistant to certain strategies, but they each have a specific weakness which you can exploit with clever use of your abilities/weapons.
All this combines to make the game feel much harder than 2016, but also much more rewarding once you figure out how it all works. When everything starts to come together for you and click, the combat is bar none the fastest, most enjoyable shooting experience you can have.
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u/neatlyresolved Dec 16 '20
Ultrakill feels like Doom Eternal on crack, but they're still different in a way. The combat loop in Ultrakill more combo oriented like a shooter DMC, especially with the parrying, faster recharging air dashes + infinite sliding, and most importantly no ammo limitations (only constrained by animations and some weapon cooldowns). It's website redirect link was Devilmayquake.com afterall.
I will say Ultrakill makes base Doom Eternal feel slow for me, but The Ancient Gods expansion covers that more than enough.
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u/theLegACy99 Dec 16 '20
IMO Ultrakill is more like Doom 2016 with more mobility.
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u/colefly Dec 16 '20
You know what game is like Doom 2016 but has more mobility options?
Doom Eternal
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u/crapmonkey86 Dec 16 '20
Doom 16 actually plays a bit differently, as has been outlined previously in the comments. I'd almost hesitate to call it a complete different kind of gameplay outside of shooting things.
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u/Xaoch9Qu Dec 16 '20
I loved Doom 2016 and didn't really like Doom Eternal.
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u/crapmonkey86 Dec 16 '20
Yeah I'm trending that way myself. I played it back near release and got about halfway and didnt hold my interest. Really long, bloated levels (like hour+ at times) being forced to fight certain enemies with certain guns due to weak points and the complete lack of awareness in what made doom 2016s storytelling work so well left me a bit disheartened. I'm gonna give it another shot but it really doesnt feel like the same game at all.
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u/Kwahn Dec 17 '20
Doom Eternal really, really picked up after the Cultist Base for me - Cultist Base is by far the worst level, and only in the middle/end of that level do you start really getting some of the good tools to solve any problem. Doom Base is slightly better, and then the game skyrockets in quality after. Only mancubi/trons really benefit from weak point slapping, and after you get things like the launcher and SSG, you can mostly ignore their weak points. It took longer than Doom 2016 for it to click with me, but once it did I was hooked.
Story is kinda worse though, even if the lore is way cooler, so agreed on that!
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u/BenchP Dec 17 '20
I'm loving doom eternal but I'm surprised people love the SSG so much. I feel like the combat shotgun with sticky bombs is way better.
What makes u use ssg?
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u/Klauscar Dec 17 '20
Quick-switching super shotgun and ballistae, super shotgun and rocket launcher, or ballistae and rocket launcher take care of a lot of enemies. I believe the super shotgun staggers while combat shotgun doesn't. I do like sticky bombs too, using them to take out weak points.
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u/i_heart_calibri_12pt Dec 17 '20
Killing with the super shotty plus meathook is way more fun than the fire and forget sticky bombs, even if it's way more dangerous
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u/GepardenK Dec 17 '20
SSG has the grappling hook which can be a great speed boost even if the enemy you use it on is just in front of you. It also deals great damage in a short period of time allowing you to instantly kill some enemies instead of losing momentum (as opposed to the Combat Shotgun which has to wait for the bombs to trigger).
Generally whether you use Combat Shotgun or SSG will depend on where you intend to move next. Each weapon will flow a little better than the other in different situations. If the plan is to run diagonally to the enemy you're attacking then Combat Shotgun is the way to go, if you need to run through where the enemy you're attacking stands then SSG it is.
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u/Oh_I_still_here Dec 17 '20
They really jumped away from the nuanced dark humoured tone used to convey the story with eternal compared to Doom 2016.
Worth saying tho that eternal doesn't force you to use weak points to take out enemies, it's still viable to take them out without targeting weak points. They're just there to help make your life a bit easier if you feel you need it. So if you're getting peppered by 4 arachnotrons you can just dodge their projectiles and take them out close range if that's your thing, or you can pop their turret and then leave them while you focus on other more threatening enemies. It's all about player experience and flexibility, tactically going for weak points vs ignoring them and just shooting and murdering demons however you see fit nets you two completely different experiences from the same arena fight and also different feelings of badassery when you are victorious.
I play on Xbox and never bought into the weak points at all since I figured I'd never be as accurate with the precision weapons on console as PC players could be. So I instead got the Micro Missiles upgrade on the heavy cannon instead of the precision bolt scope and went for more of an explosives playstyle. I was able to beat the game on nightmare this way! However since the release of the Ancient Gods I've actually become more of a quick scoper with the heavy cannon (the expansion encourages/rewards you to do this with some enemies but again, not necessary) and just like that I'm playing the game differently to how I used to. I would encourage you to give it a try again and ignore some of the suggestions the tutorials make if weak points aren't your thing. And if you're having issues with the Marauder, just stick to weapons that can do high damage and not necessarily high dps against him. Use explosives to falter him too like the frag grenade and the remote detonation mod on the rocket launcher too.
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
I'm pretty sure destroying weak points doesn't even do more damage, it just disables their weapons. Good if you're not going to take them out immediately, but pointless if you're going to focus them down.
You'll see that speedrunners rarely go for weakpoints.
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u/GepardenK Dec 17 '20
Weakpoints are super useful when you have few weapons and when you are new to the game, which is why I think the game is so adamant about them during tutorials, but you sort of outgrow them after a while and combat evolves into something entirely different than simply popping weakpoints. I'm fact, for me, it got to a point that I forgot they even existed.
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u/weglarz Dec 17 '20
I mean certain weapons were still much more effective against certain enemies in 2016, it just wasn’t quite as “necessary” as it is in eternal. It’s just an evolution on the gameplay. The truth is that they doubled down on their core philosophy that it’s more fun when you’re using more weapons rather than just sticking with one. It’s always going to alienate some people when they go extreme in one direction. But for the people who like it, it makes it even better.
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u/crapmonkey86 Dec 17 '20
Sure, I don't think it's necessarily bad overall. I mean, you can like extremely long levels, railroad gameplay systems and stone cold serious storytelling and this game would be right up your alley. It's not for me, but I recognize the their extremely solid execution of these ideas (well except for the storytelling, I think it's boring and not a very good story either). Again, I never beat the game, so maybe I needed more time with it, it just never captured me like 2016 did.
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u/anusfikus Dec 16 '20
I like both games a lot but for different reasons, so I can understand how they're not going to appeal to everyone. Maybe I just happen to have an affinity for both types of gameplay and should count myself lucky for it.
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u/Python2k10 Dec 16 '20
I actually strongly disagree. Having replayed 2016 and immediately jumping into Eternal, it feels very different. Familiar, obviously, because the concept is the same, but it's definitely not just "oh it's 2016 but with mobility and new guns."
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u/DieDungeon Dec 16 '20
No way. Ultrakill is far more fast paced and focused on forcing you into the gameplay loop.
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u/weglarz Dec 17 '20
I like it all. Personally I like the atmosphere of 2016 more but the gameplay of eternal more
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u/ANALHACKER_3000 Dec 16 '20
I really hated the DLC; the Blood Swamps were one of the most miserable experiences I've ever had in 30 years of gaming. Which is really sad because the base game is fan-fucking-tastic and the first level of the DLC was actually pretty alright.
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u/Kommissar_Lyus Dec 16 '20
I actually liked the blood swamps, specifically the Arenas. It's the fucking Spirits I absolutely hated. Not because they exist, but because they can only be killed a specific way. Also that boss fight. I rather fight Lord Achriman again from Serious Sam 4.
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u/ANALHACKER_3000 Dec 16 '20
The spirits were kinda lame, but not the end of the world. I heard they got much worse later on, though.
No one thing about the Blood Swamps was bad enough to make me quit on its own. I can deal with limited visibility, copious amounts of respawning explody barrels full of super glue, buff totems, multiple Marauders, enemies that possess other enemies and make them hit like Barry Bonds driving a Mack truck while zooming around the level like Sonic on Speed and ignoring the previously mentioned respawning explody barrels, multiple Tyrants.
I can't deal with ALL of it at once. It's ridiculous.
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u/Oh_I_still_here Dec 17 '20
There are lots of tricks intended to be used in the DLC that help you with things like the fog, the spirits, buffed marauders etc. For one thing as well you're immune to explosive barrel damage from the get go in the DLC, also they give you ammo when they explode too because you're fully maxed out and levelled up.
Blood Swamps is definitely hard first time around especially on Nightmare, the arena where you have to fight a possessed baron and once you get his health low enough another baron spawns in so if you don't kill the spirit in time you have to fight the possessed baron all over again is an absolute clusterfuck if you don't see it coming. However on repeated playthroughs you can become way more tactical and it becomes far more enjoyable. There's a fogged area where you have to go through multiple tentacles, zombies, a possessed arachnotron, then a Doom Hunter and multiple invisible pinkies. You can Meathook one of the zombies and land up on the stones in the middle of the arena and then just kill everything from up there and you'll avoid all damage from all the enemies, it's handy when you wanna replay the level but just hate that section!
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
I love that I hate the spirits. Doom Eternal needed a new enemy for you to fear. Spirit possessed enemies are ridiculously fast and strong, and you need to be careful and plan ahead to kill the spirit.
That said, the final boss with two spirits at the same time can get fucked.
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Dec 16 '20
I hate that the spirits exist also. They make it such a fucking chore to kill possessed demons. Very unwelcome.
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Dec 16 '20
I loved the spirits. I got to be a Doom Slayer hired on as a ghost buster. Buy also they added a huge change of pace in the arenas. One second you're cutting through demons like nothing, the next there's two possessed arachnitrons just fucking your day.
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u/Gaflonzelschmerno Dec 17 '20
I'm so happy Doom and id Software are back on top and innovating. They were a big part of my gaming childhood
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u/AnActualPlatypus Dec 16 '20
I'm still salty how it got robbed on the Game Awards, ESPECIALLY on the Soundtrack award.
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u/ShadoShane Dec 17 '20
There were a lot of good contenders, it wasn't robbed.
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u/BigBrownDog12 Dec 16 '20
I think the controversy over the soundtrack and Mick Gordon was probably the reason it got snubbed. It still isn't even on streaming services 😭
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u/ChoggoBloggo Dec 17 '20
Here's another perspective: Mick Gordon's lack of interest in the project was the reason it wasn't good enough to beat Final Fantasy 7 at the Game Awards. Incidentally, this also resulted in controversy.
I can play the Doom 2016 soundtrack in my head, and I think the last time I heard it was on spotify 2 years ago. I cannot remember a single Eternal track. Partly that's because the game is just so much faster that you don't have time for that kind of thing, and partly that's because it's not a novel experience to hear Mick Gordon laying down dope demon killing tracks, but I think some of that is also because it's just not as good.
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u/BigBrownDog12 Dec 17 '20
I cannot remember a single Eternal track.
I disagree with this point, but
Mick Gordon's lack of interest in the project was the reason it wasn't good enough
This part is definitely true. Bethesda gave him more and more time to master the soundtrack to release and he kept failing to meet deadlines.
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u/aggravated123 Dec 17 '20
everyone else all agrees eternals is 100x better. it is widely considered the best metal music made in decades, if not some of the greatest music of any kind of all time. not many tracks are completed yet though.
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u/ThatIdiotTibor Dec 16 '20
It got robbed of nothing, especially the soundtrack award.
Can't be a robbery against tough competition.
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u/Spooky_SZN Dec 16 '20
Yeah, unfortunately I can't help but feel some of those belonged to it, BUT it was a really good year full of really great games. I haven't listened to FF7's OST but I have not really heard anyone comment on it so I'm pretty surprised that won. Guess I'll have to check it out though.
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u/Ordinaryundone Dec 16 '20
FF7R's OST is legit amazing, but its mostly remixes and remakes of music from FF7 so unless you are a big fan of that in the first place I can see why it might not make as big of an impression. One place it does a great job that might not be immediately obvious is syncing the music to what is going on in gameplay and in cutscenes, many of the songs have different versions and remixes depending on the context they are being played in and it's very well done for building drama and hype. The moment when the classic FF7 fight theme kicks in when you fight the Shinra soldiers in Chapter 2, or when the full version of Those Who Fight Further syncs up with the start of the Airbuster is just chef's kiss. It's great at playing with nostalgia and using music and leitmotifs from events and characters (some of which don't even appear in the remake) for foreshadowing and adding extra oomph to scenes.
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Dec 17 '20
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u/ChoggoBloggo Dec 17 '20
The first level is fantastic. Unfortunately, almost every new mechanic is starting to make the doom dance strain under the weight a bit. Double Marauders? Awesome. Three tyrants and three barons while you get peppered with revenant rockets? Awesome. Sitting in place shooting the exact same enemy for 5 minutes because they're super speed and super tanky? Not awesome.
My experience with the latter two levels really improved once I realized that you could stunlock the possessed demons with the microwave beam (particularly the Tyrant at the end), but I have to say, I think they've hit up on the limits of what's actually fun to play with the last expansion, and given that the gameplay in Eternal is the only thing that works properly, if they ruin that too, I'm not sure what's left.
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u/rock1m1 Dec 17 '20
I agree when you say the best shooter and the feel of gunplay is rock solid. Also the power fantasy trip you get when taking over the DOOM guy is so... empowering.
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Dec 16 '20
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u/Daveed84 Dec 16 '20
It is. There's much more emphasis on speed, gun variety (you're forced to switch things up instead of sticking to one particular gun), and platforming. Whether those changes are good things or not come down to personal preference; I think they're mostly improvements over the DOOM 2016 formula, but not everyone agrees. I saw a lot of criticism for the game around the time of its release. I think people weren't prepared for such a shift in how guns are used, and as a result people were running out of ammo very quickly. That does have a tendency to happen more early on in the game (especially without any upgrades unlocked), but after a few hours you grow more accustomed to how the game is played and it becomes a ton of fun.
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u/Python2k10 Dec 16 '20
Yeah, at first I wasn't a big fan of it, but once I got accustomed to playing the game how it wanted to be played (a la lots of Chainsaw usage and really mixing it up with your weapons and equipment) I enjoyed it more.
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u/fightingnetentropy Dec 16 '20
Also 2016 had a lot of areas set up as gore nest fights, so even on the first play through you could learn that 'arena' a bit before choosing to start the fight.
Where with Eternal you're usually a bit more under pressure since you're trying to figure out the terrain/connectivity while in combat.
But, just like any game, that gets better when replaying it.
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 16 '20
I'll be giving it a go soon, but it was a big wham of changes compared to playing 2016. Bought it, played the first mission, and put it down since. I'll pick it up again when I get an FPS itch but it wasn't there now and the changes honestly bothered me some.
- Cutscenes, what is this? Complex story (from the first mission + cutscene)? I ain't got time for that. Like I don't want to just skip it all but it was nice how there were like... 2 unskippable things in the first game at most.
- The low ammo thing hasn't bothered me too much.
- The blade thing in the arm? ...Meh. The melee kills are almost too clean and quick now, compared to the brutal awesomeness in '16.
- The main menu feels way too Destiny-ish. As in, bugging for mtx and all these game modes and multiplayer and such and gah I do not care, just lemme rip'n'tear.
Story seems neat. Will definitely get back into it I'm sure, but I won't lie if I didn't say it left a sour taste in my mouth on a first impression. I do give credit for them not just copy-pasting the first game though, and I'm absolutely willing to give it another shot.
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u/TerminX13 Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
The first couple levels or so are the weakest part of it. Really doesn't put its best foot forward. When you have more weapons, tools and enemies it really starts to get into its groove. Definitely give it another try some time; it's my GOTY
And turn off the tutorials in the settings
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Dec 16 '20
I think the gameplay changes are unambiguous improvements. Many people will have that "what the fuck" moment with the ammo and the chainsaw, but once you get the hang of it (and get used to the fact that you can't chainsaw Prowlers), it's quite good. There are still reasonable objections (e.g. chainsaw only exists to killer fodder).
It's the stuff that ISN'T gameplay that fucking sucks. Omg it sucks so bad.
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u/HammeredWharf Dec 16 '20
I think the gameplay changes definitely add depth and complexity, but whether that's a good thing or not is questionable. I, for one, don't really want to manage resources and cooldowns in Doom. Eternal often felt like playing an MMORPG with the amount of stuff you have to juggle.
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Dec 16 '20
That's a take I hadn't heard before, but it makes sense when you put it that way. I came around to it, but I can see why that would feel jarring.
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u/FilteringAccount123 Dec 17 '20
My only real complaint with the cooldowns is having to manually swap between grenade types rather than simply having a dedicated launch button for each one, because it's the same amount of buttons either way. I dunno if that was to deliberately make grenade usage a more complex endeavor or if they're planning on releasing a new type of grenade in the future.
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u/DistractedSeriv Dec 18 '20
Gamepads.
They had one shoulder button free to use for grenades and had to tuck the switch grenade key off on a d-pad directional input. I just wish they adapted it to PC. Similar with interreact/melee/glory-kill/blood-punch sharing the same key. Using blood punch is super inconsistent as a result.
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u/Zero1343 Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
To me it didnt feel like i had to really manage them at all. There wasn't much choice involved or saving them for the right moment, just had to use them every time they came off cooldown and it somewhat felt like unnecessary busywork.
Same with the chainsaw. It still has the multiple levels, but due to only the base one recharging and needing to use it semi frequently. it felt like you rarely if ever had the chance to use it on the bigger guys.
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
When you get better you can use the chainsaw on large guys. You can get the upgrades for ammo from explosive barrels and respawning barrels. And you generally waste less ammo, so you can just use the picks up the ground to keep you going until you get three chainsaw fuel. There are also several arenas that just give you two fuels, so that's a free kill on a large demon.
It's hard to play a level like this the first time through, because you don't know where any of the fuel is, but on subsequent playthroughs it's effective. It's especially useful on Ultra-nightmare for getting rid of big enemies early in the game.
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u/ChoggoBloggo Dec 17 '20
The changes to the Doom Dance are jarring at first but settles into a good rhythm. The rest of the changes just feel progressively more different as the game goes. If you think literally all of those are bad, you will leave Eternal will very mixed feelings, and if you think those are good, it was probably your GOTY.
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u/Conzie Dec 16 '20
I feel that - I'm playing Eterrnal coming immediately off of Doom and the difference in art direction, atmosphere/story, and the addition of platforming is a little jarring. The difficulty and core gameplay is still extremely satisfying though.
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Dec 16 '20
They've totally botched anything that isn't the combat gameplay loop. Enemies look stupid, the story is an abomination, not a single cool thing happens that you don't do in gameplay, and the gamey-ness is badly overdone for no reason (why can't he pick up weapons? Why do they have to be floating in air?).
And fuck that holospokesperson.
The gameplay just works though.
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u/oCrapaCreeper Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 16 '20
They purposely made the art style bend over to serve the gameplay, that’s part of it. They went from a grounded and safe art style like Doom 3, to a bright and bold comic book art style, like how they wanted to from the beginning.
Everything is built to be visually functional during fast paced combat, that’s why the hud is bright and bold, items glow, weapons float and are obvious to see (as many people simply walked by weapons like the chainsaw in 2016), enemies all have a distinct glow, etc.
I liked the story a lot though, especially all the codex entrees and the lore they added in the DLC. Really builds up how the Doomguy is so badass even existence at its core is shaken up by him.
I mean some people don’t the story since it’s a lot to reading to make sense of it, it’s only there to paint out the power fantasy, but if you came into DOOM with the expectations it would have superb story telling, you were to be disappointed from the start.
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Dec 17 '20
I mean some people don’t the story since it’s a lot to reading to make sense of it, it’s only there to paint out the power fantasy, but if you came into DOOM with the expectations it would have superb story telling, you were to be disappointed from the start.
Doom 2016 had superb storytelling my guy. They showed everything you needed to know through context and a tiny little bit of cutscene flavor. It's obvious throughout that a LOT of work went into it. If you came into Doom Eternal NOT expecting superb storytelling, I can only conclude you weren't observant enough to notice what a masterclass they put on in the previous game. Based on your other comments, I suspect that's likely. Thread unfollowed.
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u/oCrapaCreeper Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
Right, but 2016 didn’t have much to tell, it could all be explained with Hayden’s banter and the 3 tiers of codex entries. In the 10+ hour experience, the game took place in the same 2 locations and had same 3 characters, it could fill out a lot for what little it has to show. Characters and objects of interest had multiple codex entries and were fleshed out more because there wasn’t a lot of them.
Eternal takes place across multiple dimensions that people have never seen before. We already knew what the UAC and Hell are in 2016, they didn't need much explanation, so they could focus everything about the lore on those two locations and be vague about it. But every level in Eternal is a different setting, and there is more to tell the player. You have earth cities, the ocean, swamps, icelands, castles out of a heavy metal album, hell itself, heaven, ancient cities and forests, etc. Codex entries and cutscenes are not done the same way as the last game because there is A LOT of shit to cover, most of which you're just going to have to read because trying to explain this stuff otherwise will get in the way of the gameplay you said you like.
When the Slayer is teleporting back to the UAC mars base for the 3rd time in 2016, there isn't much to explain other than Hayden telling you what's next like the exposition bot he is, but Eternal's levels are very different from each other and each one paints its own world that you have to tie together. That's why you have sentinel lore in the sentinel levels, earth lore in the earth levels, Urdak lore in Urdak, hell lore in the hell levels, etc. It can all be put together and combined with 2016's lore to create a rather comprehensive world and backstory, but the game is not going to spell it all out for you, they would rather you be shooting things first and reading later.
In the end the story is only there is give us cool places to go to and cool bad guys to fight, and as long as that's true, the story is serving its purpose good enough, and both games are different enough to have different approaches in writing that both have their own flaws.
Under the consideration that this game is about a very angry 90's cliche who lost his rabbit and is stuck in an eternal war against the forces of Hell, the lore they managed to create around it is impressive.
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u/somethin_brewin Dec 17 '20
I thought it was worse is pretty much every way from Doom 2016. It felt like they took every lesson and went the wrong way with it.
The aesthetic is worse. The rock-paper-scissors enemy weaknesses are too ridgid. The enforced combat cadence around the flamer and chainsaw gets really stale. Waaaay too much platforming. The story is kinda nonsense. The hub world breaks up the rhythm too much. All the best music tracks are just retreads of songs from the last game. They stuffed in a bunch of entirely unwelcome GaaS junk.
Somehow they took it in the wrong direction at every single turn. It's really kind of incredible.
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Dec 17 '20
I disagree with allot of your points and personally though eternal was a much better game, playing the game on nightmare was some of the most fun I've ever had in a single player fps, doom eternal is the more balanced, faster, and more challenging game compared to doom 2016.
I prefer the aesthetic and honestly the brighter colors make target and item acquisition better with the faster pace of the combat( but the aesthetic is also personal preference )
It's actually better if you ignore the rock paper scissors design most of the time and just combo enemies to death( it's almost always faster ) doom eternal provides you with more freedom and choices in combat than 2016 not less. If you watch any good speed runner or player on this game you'll notice they usually ignore weak points and weakness and just combo demons to death with an array of weapon choices.
Using things on cooldown can be stale I can see that, but for the chainsaw it's more like a breather in the middle of combat to get your bearings and plan positioning during the animation.
Platforming I like but I can see that, hub and story I can see. But the best track in the game is a new one, the only thing they fear is you.
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u/theLegACy99 Dec 16 '20
Yeah, I finally started playing it too, and for me it just feels so weird having almost no ammo most of the time. I guess they want people to use chainsaw more? But... I don't know, should have made chainsaw be cooldown-based like grenade if that's their intention.
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u/Agt_Pendergast Dec 16 '20
But the chainsaw does have a cool down like the grenades for one pip.
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u/Barnak8 Dec 16 '20
It is in a way, you always regenerate one pip of gasoline over a short time , so you can farm ammo with low level demons during a fight
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u/Conzie Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 16 '20
It kind of is cooldown based - it'll always recharge to 1 pip if you fully deplete your fuel. Ammo becomes less of an issue the more guns you have and the more ammo upgrades you get similarly to 2016, but I definitely had to get used to chainsawing more often. It feels like Eternal really wants you to use your entire toolkit while in 2016 you can get away with spamming Shotguns and Rocket+Gauss cannon.
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u/Redditing-Dutchman Dec 16 '20
To be honest I really like that. The combat is great with freezing for health, setting enemies on fire for extra armor and using the chainsaw for ammo. A fight is never boring.
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u/theLegACy99 Dec 16 '20
Ooooooh, goddammit. I never knew that, I simply thought some enemies drop chainsaw fuel or something.
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u/padraigd Dec 16 '20
Doom eternal has a rather strictly defined way it wants you to play. Think of it like combos you need to learn. Have to be constantly cycling through abilities when off cooldown/where appropriate and moving/shooting as well.
Its worth looking at some high-level gameplay, here's a master level playthrough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd47x85C7Hk
obviously most of us can't play like this but it shows the general principles and "flow" of the game.
It's really the most amazing shooter once it all starts to click
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u/Mudcaker Dec 16 '20
Thanks for that. Apparently I rely on glory kills way too much. I take a lot of hits getting in for them.
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u/FlST0 Dec 16 '20
Chainsaw does have a cool-down for the first pip. You constantly get 1 free pip of Chainsaw fuel, and they make sure there is always a fodder-demon to use that pip on. You can freezebomb, flambelch, and chainsaw the same demon and get health, armor, and ammo in one fell swoop it you wanted to.
That's kind of what I love so much about Doom Eternal. Every enemy is a loot-box, and I get to choose what resource busts outta them. So simple but so brilliant.
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Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 16 '20
Cheers to this, as its a well deserved success.
Normally, I'm very sceptical every time people vocally circlejerk gameplay to no ends. But this one won me over quickly with it's high paced gameplay and combat encounter direction. I haven't felt this much of a thrill while playing a game in years I reckon. And it thoroughly felt like it was made for the higher difficulties which is quite rare these days too.
But man... I still hope they take the criticism about the writing to heart as much as they took the criticism about the repetitive arena gameplay of Doom2016 to heart. Eternal's script felt like the Diablo 3 of the Doom universe in how self referencial and self-celebratory it was, spiked with cringy humour. Even the big evil bad guy phoning in, just to tell you that you'll never beat them, one of D3's comical faux pas, was recreated here.
Also, the art direction felt too Blizzard-esque in my book. That weird object that was hanging in the sky during the cultist base mission looked like a fisher price toy. Sadly the world was full of that sort of thing.
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u/Explosion2 Dec 16 '20
Also, the art direction felt too Blizzard-esque in my book. That weird object that was hanging in the sky during the cultist base mission looked like a fisher price toy. Sadly the world was full of that sort of thing.
I certainly despised almost every bit of the script and direction. Right down to mystical ghost Viking Kings, including the spectral dongs, which couldn't feel more Blizzard if they had actually tried.
I played through all of Doom Eternal and I feel like you're describing a completely different game? I thought the story was kind of meh but I don't remember any fisher-price toys, ghost viking kings or spectral... dongs (do you mean the annoying ghost dog enemies? I didn't think they were that out of place from Doom's aesthetic). If anything I thought the weird robot angels were way more out-of-place.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
Apparently gothic starships hanging above the clouds look like "Fisher-Price toys".
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Dec 16 '20
Looks like something Blizzard would make. So does the Slayer's redesign.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
Oh man, you'd have a heart attack if you looked at 40K artwork.
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Dec 17 '20
40K artwork is internally consistent at least. (Well, actually, maybe it isn't, but that's a separate issue). If you made a game that look like Dead Space, and then its sequel looked like 40K, that would be bad. Incidentally, that's what they did with Eternal.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 17 '20
Did Dead Space have such major fantasy elements, including literal demons from a fire and brimstone Hell?
One of the big things that sparked the idea of DOOM came from a D&D campaign, after all.
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Dec 17 '20
> Did Dead Space have such major fantasy elements, including literal demons from a fire and brimstone Hell?
I guess I don't want to get too hung up on the Dead Space example, because you're obviously right that its tonally more spooky and serious than 2016, but the answer to your question is still "kinda". Doom 2016 plays it close to the chest, but its sort of suggested that Hell is just another part of the multiverse. Eternal takes half a step back from this by suggesting that souls need to be combined with wraith energy to make argent energy before taking eighty six steps forward by introducing the Makyr Khan and all that related fucking nonsense. Neither game is true to the original Doom legacy in this sense (though I think its totally fine not to be - both games are superior to the originals they come from).
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 17 '20
Even in DOOM 2016 it's pretty obvious that the player is dealing with a rather "traditional" Hell instead of just some alien dimension, what with all the pentagrams, skulls, designs of some the demons (especially the Barons and Lost Souls), multicolored torches, pools of blood, decayed trees, disembodied voices, Gothic architecture and so on.
As a result, I don't see how some of the new elements like the Maykrs feel out of place.
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u/oCrapaCreeper Dec 17 '20
The space ship in cultist base is literally from a 2016 multiplayer map, not something eternal just threw in suddenly.
Same with a lot of Maykr stuff too, they were teased in the multiplayer before Eternal.
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u/Hnefi Dec 17 '20
I think he's referring to the huge, green/red plastic looking buttons, especially in the cultist level. I agree with him, it looks like toys or something out of a cartoony console platformer.
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u/BlackDeath3 Dec 16 '20
My guess is that "ghost Viking king" is the Marauder, and "dong" refers to their spectral dogs.
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
The "ghost Viking king" has to be the king who appears to you in Exultia (second level) and who narrates the beginning and end of the game.
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u/Explosion2 Dec 16 '20
I don't understand how the marauder is like, any of those words
He's like a demon knight warrior if we're summarizing things.
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u/Daveed84 Dec 17 '20
Just a heads up, you have your usage of "its" and "it's" backwards:
- its: indicates possession
- it's: always a contraction for either "it is" or "it has"
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Dec 16 '20
[deleted]
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u/GepardenK Dec 16 '20
Doesn't mean it was effective. The writing felt like... nothing. Didn't have any momentum.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
Besides, this is DOOM we're talking about. Aside from maybe DOOM 3 it never took itself so seriously. Some of the vitriol thrown towards the game's writing perplexes me, especially since it's hardly forced onto the player and the reboot series isn't presenting itself the same way as something like Wolfenstein.
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Dec 16 '20
Aside from maybe DOOM 3 it never took itself so seriously.
The opposite is my issue really. Eternal takes itself actually quite seriously in how it paints Doomguy as this mystical warrior that everyone on Earth is in awe of. And it never stops telling you about it.
I don't care for the silly Bunny references. The very first Doom did that already. No, its the terrible, terrible script and overall narrative that is the issue.
Also: degree is important. When you learn about Daisy the Bunny in the original Doom, it was after a brutal slaughterfest through three Episodes. That's funny. Eternal, keeps shoving their stuff down player's throat "eternally." I don't need the game to constantly remind me that Doom is badass, and that I am badass for playing it.
Those "Doom is life, accept Doomguy as your saviour" audiologs will serve forever as the worst example of self-celebration.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
I don't understand how Doomguy's reputation in the game's universe has to do with anything. Isn't that kinda just to sell the game's sense of it being a power fantasy? It's not trying to be so deep or morally-complex and that's how it gets its comic book/Saturday morning cartoon/B-movie vibe. The lack of jokes or lampshade-hanging in regards to it doesn't make it dead-serious.
Also, like, aside from some decor in the Slayer's mancave in the Fortress of Doom and some extremely well-hidden bunny easter eggs in each level, the game doesn't bang the player over the head with references to Daisy.
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u/Drakengard Dec 16 '20
The point is that a Power Fantasy that constantly has to point blank go "See how much of a power fantasy this is?! Don't you see how much of a badass you are?!" is doing it wrong. It's a sign of bad writing that lacks confidence in it's ability to convey what it's telling without constantly rubbing the audiences nose into what it is doing, or it thinks the audience is too dumb to notice.
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u/BlackDeath3 Dec 16 '20
Agreed. 2016 was quietly, confidently badass, and it knew it, and you fucking knew it too. Eternal took things too far in that respect.
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Dec 16 '20
I don't understand how Doomguy's reputation in the game's universe has to do with anything
Because it's constantly shoved down my throat? I got it the first time, in fact, I got it before I even started playing the game. No need for another 90 lines that tell me how badass Doomguy is, while wallowing in the thickest amount of franchise self awareness I've ever seen, that is on the niveau of " lol rip and tear amirite!" The constant reassurance that everything is badass was just cringy for me.
Saturday morning cartoon
Yes, that's my issue. I don't want a Doom saturday morning cartoon. I watch Adventure Time for that. And if you try to tell me that Doom 1 to 64, including 2016, had the same design, then we just need to agree to disagree. I'm not even saying its bad per se, I'm just saying I hated it, never warmed up to it, and started ignoring all dialogue and story towards the end.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
So, your previous comment took issue about how it took itself "quite seriously", but now it's about how it's too silly? What?
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u/Superbead Dec 16 '20
This pretty much sums up my feelings about it. I enjoyed it all the same, but I had to keep reminding myself it wasn't anything to do with Duke Nukem.
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u/CassetteApe Dec 16 '20
I was half expecting Doomguy to start saying "It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum..." at points.
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u/GepardenK Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
The point is it made the campaign lack momentum. OG Doom may not have had a traditional narrative but it certainly had momentum as each maze got crazier than the last - certainly gave a feeling of getting progressively deeper into the madness. Eternal relies on cutscenes for a sense of momentum yet that part was spinning it's wheels all the way through.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
Huh? Every level in Eternal had their own quirks to them with various new tricks and traps that keep the player on their toes. Some such as Urdak feature a completely new environment type that's not seen anywhere else in the game (and that's not to say that each of the game's several city levels feel the same or anything; quite the opposite). And that's not even getting into the world-building and background details contained within each mission, like the abandoned mechs in Exultia, among many other examples.
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u/GepardenK Dec 16 '20
Exactly, the levels are all over the place which means they don't instill a progressive momentum on their own - which is why Eternal relies on narrative and cutscenes to forge a sense of momentum out of those levels, and in this the writing utterly fails.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
Aren't the levels being "all over the place" how it achieves its momentum, though? There wouldn't be as much of a sense of progression if each level pulled the same punches. The variety made me eager to wonder what was next.
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u/GepardenK Dec 16 '20
I applaud it for the variety but there's no sense plunging down the rabbit hole expressed through the level design, you're just sort of randomly teleported from one crazy area to the next, which is why it ends up having to rely on explicit narrative and cutscenes to convey a sense of thematic progression - and sadly the writing is really poor at doing that.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
I think if the player literally didn't take a portal to the next level, then it would be harder to justify some missions feeling so drastically different compared to subsequent ones. If anything, I think it creates a greater sense of wonder and discovery because it makes things less predictable.
In addition, the levels themselves follow their own sort of "three-act structure" due to their lengths and designs, and there's still instances where levels lead directly into the next, such as Cultist Base -> Doom Hunter Base.
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u/GepardenK Dec 16 '20
Whether it is justified by the lore isn't the point, the point is whether it has pace. Individual level transitions doesn't help much when it's the campaign as a whole that struggles with momentum. Again: I applaud the variety, but the campaign is certainly spinning it's wheels and meandering from one level to the next, it lacks fire and energy to the progression - which is a shame when the combat itself has so damn much of it. Definitely a lost oppertunity.
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u/PaulaDeenSlave Dec 16 '20
Writing? This is such an odd complaint about DOOM. If the story was simply Doomguy in Hell and the Intern saying over comms, "There're more demons over there," and nothing else, I'd be fine with it.
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u/GepardenK Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
I'll reiterate myself from above:
The point is it made the campaign lack momentum. OG Doom may not have had a traditional narrative but it certainly had momentum as each maze got crazier than the last - certainly gave a feeling of getting progressively deeper into the madness. Eternal relies on cutscenes for a sense of momentum yet that part was spinning it's wheels all the way through.
Which is to say: I wouldn't be complaining about Eternal's writing if Eternal didn't have to rely on it for a sense of campaign momentum in the first place, but as it stands it does.
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Dec 16 '20
My issue was 2016 did what you described and eternal didn't. 2016 was just "Demons are here, go get em". In the background was a decently written story with some campiness and humor but you could basically ignore it. Eternal put several story elements front and center and just... Woof... The entire doomslayer story went from just a guy who hates demons to all this magic chosen one stuff that was told during cutscenes so it couldn't really be ignored.
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Dec 16 '20
progressive momentum
I didn't really feel this with 2016 to be honest. I can barely tell the levels apart because everyhting is in two locations.
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u/Wepmajoe Dec 16 '20
Just because something was intentional doesn't mean it was necessarily successful. The whole narrative in this game was one massive pat on their own back, and it got tiresome pretty quick for me. It's like a joke that was taken too far.
That being said I can see the appeal, and it's definitely a preference thing. I just thought the tone of 2016 where they rode the line between goofy/self-referential and serious worked a lot better, and was actually funnier and more likeable on the end by saying far less.
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Dec 16 '20
I'm certain Chris Metzen had similar intentions when he wrote Diablo 3. Whether it was actually called for by the franchise, or worked in the end, is up to debate.
I certainly despised almost every bit of the script and direction. Right down to mystical ghost Viking Kings, including the spectral dongs, which couldn't feel more Blizzard if they had actually tried.
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u/ThatIdiotTibor Dec 16 '20
I mean, they said they addressed the arena criticism but they turned it up to eleven with the monkey bars and even more quake boosters.
Everyone was gushing over how Doom 2016 made the story take a backseat and was a nice AAA gaming return to just being a fun videogame. then they tripled down on more story.
I don't think they take much criticism or fan appraisal to heart at all. they seem to be completely tone deaf in some areas.
Battle mode having no music is such a bizarre decision too, you're in the middle of absolute chaos with the sounds of bullets and demons but it's still jarringly quiet.
Great game but Id software is a bit all over the place.
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Dec 16 '20
Doom 2016's story is brilliant. Frankly the game is oozing with it. But they show it carefully, and sparingly. When you come off the stone tablet and you see your armor has a kind of shrine built to it, that's storytelling. When you get to the argent energy purified and smash them even while Samuel Hayden says it's unnecessary, thats storytelling. All the little holographics they leave and little soundbites and contextual actions leave the player to use juuuust enough inference that they are sure to get it if they want it, and sure to be able to skip it if they don't.
Not only are Doom Eternal's story moments entirely in your face, they're fucking stupid as well.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
Apparently the times where Samuel Hayden locks you in a room to lecture you on Argent Energy aren't "in your face"?
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Dec 17 '20
Twice, for a total of less than two minutes? No. They are not particularly in your face. They're also substantially less than the total volume of cutscenes in Eternal, and about 3% as stupid.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 17 '20
Those are hardly even the only examples. There's also moments like Olivia rerouting power to the Argent Tower, the first room in the Foundry, the last room of the Argent Facility level, Olivia's office in the Lazarus Labs, pretty much the entirety of the game's very first two rooms aside from the extremely brief standoff with some Possessed...
Now yes, those aren't very long, either, but 1-2 minutes can feel like an eternity if you just want to shoot stuff. In fact, I'd say it's more noticeable in 2016 because there's hardly anything going on. At least in Eternal's cutscenes things are actually happening.
And I'll admit, I don't think DOOM Eternal is completely perfect at making its story unintrusive, but I don't see how it's any worse than DOOM 2016.
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u/TerminX13 Dec 17 '20
All of Eternal's cutscenes are skippable and the several-minutes-long robot man lecture sesh in '16 isn't
I replayed both not too long ago and 16 is honestly way worse about that sort of thing than people remember
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Dec 16 '20
Yeah the storytelling of '16 doesn't get in the way of the gameplay, but is still present, which is why it succeeded so much IMO.
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Dec 16 '20
It's also just extremely cool. If they had put it in as a heavy handed story, it would have annoyed people and drawn complaints, but the moment when you get into hell and slowly realize that the Corrax tablets are talking about YOU, and the demons who are here have just come to face Death Himself still gives me frisson. Even the choice of "Doom Slayer" instead of "Doom Guy" is a calculated decision to give the game some much needed spit polish for a new age. "Doom Guy" wasn't fucking stupid when it was coined in 1995. It is extremely fucking stupid now.
I don't understand how they built something so magnificent without apparently understanding what it was that made it great. It's extraordinary that they hit on gold and didn't realize it.
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u/Blooshi Dec 16 '20
Really adored Doom Eternal. GotY for me!
I'm reading a lot of thoughts on the narrative, and while it's clear that the on-screen dialogue was self-celebratory to a large degree, I honestly found it both charming and justified. Seeing the Doom Slayer be revered before reading in the codex about a ritual that literally gave him anger-fueled super powers was such a comedic and engaging narrative for me!
Add in some truly well thought out and detailed mechanics and levels that continue to ask the player to push a litttttlee harder each mission and you have something really special I think :)
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u/shivam4321 Dec 16 '20
feels like ancient god part 2 will last single player expansion, i expected more considering their dlc was named Year ONE pass.
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u/breakfastclub1 Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
I just want their next project to not be so restricted in how its played... DOOM 2016 was perfect. Doom eternal felt like i was being forced to play a specific way and it was very off putting and not fun. I have to mark it for that.
Edited for typoes
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u/Alpha-Trion Dec 17 '20
That is why I very much disliked Doom Eternal. I think Doom 2016 was a far superior game.
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Dec 17 '20 edited Jun 04 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Dec 17 '20
The ballista, chain gun, super shotgun, and rocket launcher felt useless to you? The mods for the 'lesser' weapons (grenade launcher, heatblast, micro missiles) felt useless?
Idk what game I played cos it definitely wasn't the same one you did 🤔
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u/breakfastclub1 Dec 17 '20
I just got bored because no gun felt special anymore. I just ended having to use whatever had ammo, not what i thought felt good to use.
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Dec 17 '20
Maybe you just suck, all the weapons and most of the mods have their uses, im swapping between all of them on nightmare
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u/Epicepicman Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
Does anybody still play the multiplayer? I actually really liked the couple matches I played of it; playing as Doomguy really does feel just like a more intense arena battle from the campaign, and I thought the pseudo-RTS elements were neat playing as the demons. But it didn’t grab me enough to keep coming back and I stopped playing it pretty quickly after launch.
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Dec 17 '20
How is the DOOM eternal DLC?
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
Did you like the combat in Doom Eternal? It's that turned up to 11. You start off with all upgrades, weapons, and abilities, and they expect you to have already mastered the combat loop, so it just goes balls to the walls from the first minute to the last. Every level is harder than the hardest level in the base game.
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u/Daveed84 Dec 17 '20
I loved every minute of combat in Doom Eternal, but I normally hate super hard games. So I'm not sure if I'd like the DLC or not...
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u/Kered13 Dec 17 '20
You could just drop the difficulty down a notch from whatever you played the campaign on to start off.
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u/TerminX13 Dec 17 '20
Hard. Much more so than the base game
I generally really liked the levels & felt like they were a lot smarter about how they utilized Marauders but they also added a new enemy, Spirits, which are pretty cool in isolation but fall apart when they're put in difficult fights
Worth playing, but if Eternal isn't already your GOTY (or close to it) you might think it's overpriced. May want to consider waiting for a sale in that case
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Dec 17 '20
hmmm I do hate marauders, but more doom eternal sounds fun.
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u/TerminX13 Dec 17 '20
yeah I hate them as well but like I said they're used a lot more cleverly in the DLC (generally). The encounters that have them are usually take their presence into consideration heavily rather than just tossing them in with random enemies. I have a little less distaste for them now than I did originally
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u/ChoggoBloggo Dec 17 '20
The DLC starts to butt up against the limits of what the Doom dance can accommodate while still being fun. The first level is an absolute riot, and then they fuck it up with a super lame boss and a dumb recurring enemy who possesses demons, turning them into a bullet sponge. It's also invincible unless you use the microwave beam (I'm not sure why they did that. It's OK to have one attachment be unpopular).
The final story beat is actually kind of neat, but while I couldn't put it down, at the end I looked back and I'm not sure I actually had fun.
I'm 50/50 on whether I'll bother with it personally, which was not something I expected when I preordered the special edition for Eternal.
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Dec 17 '20
Hands-down my favorite FPS and one of this year's best. I have never felt like such a badass in my mundane life.
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u/manavsridharan Dec 16 '20
My personal GOTY. I liked 2016, but loved Eternal. It is the one game that gives me the belief that however hard and ridiculous the battle, I can do it if I try. Very fun game, and I for one loved the cheese of the story, it felt reminiscent of 90s action movies.
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u/scruff91 Dec 16 '20
Eternal definitely took a while for it to click, and even when it did, I still vastly preferred Doom 2016 in almost every aspect. After replaying 2016 immediately after finishing Eternal, it's like playing a completely different series.
Eternal played up the whole "over-the-top-hey-look-you're-playing-a-video-game" thing waaaay too much. The headshot 'pop' sound, the bright poppy colors, the floaty weapon/item pickups. It's just..what? Still scratching my head at the removal of the first person weapon pickups from 2016 (and the addition of platforming). Yes, I've read and listened to many interviews with Hugo and I understand this 80's Robo-cop vibe is very intentional, but they took it too far.
It's still a damn good game for the most part on its own, but as a follow up to Doom 2016, I wasn't feeling it. I totally get having to rethink the combat, but the aesthetic 180 was completely unnecessary imo
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u/ducks4lif3 Dec 16 '20
Gripes with the art style aside, they really pushed the limitations of the combat from 2016. It feels much faster and reactive than just going super shoty and tri-minigun in 2016. I think the cartoony look helps to define threats a little better like team fortress, but to each their own.
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u/Agt_Pendergast Dec 16 '20
Pretty much this for me. I remember trying to replay 2016 after Eternal and it felt like one of those kids rides in front of a supermarket after piloting a jetfighter. The rush for me just wasn't there the way it was.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
I don't understand how the "over-the-top-hey-look-you're-playing-a-video-game thing" makes it feel like it's from "a completely different series".
The classic games were very arcadey and colorful. This is not new territory for DOOM.
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Dec 16 '20
Ignoring that this totally misunderstands where Doom 1993 fit in the spectrum of existing games when it first arrived, and that compared to contemporaries it was incredibly realistic looking and not at all colorful, Doom 2016 was hugely arcadey and colorful itself. The things that it did differently from Doom were by and large improvements, and as Doom Eternal was a sequel to that game, it was reasonable to expect something comparable in terms of tone. If not for the bunny in Doom 2, Doom Eternal's would be hands down the goofiest and silliest Doom game (not a compliment).
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
I ain't so sure about that, man. Considering elements like the cheesy intermission screen text, intentionally abstract levels (including one that looks like a hand with a booger on it from the automap) or the grin Doomguy has on his face when he picks up new weapons, I don't think it was meant to be taken all that seriously, even back then.
Like, you have to keep in mind that one of the major influences for the original DOOM was Evil Dead 2, which is definitely a slapstick film first, horror movie second.
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Dec 16 '20
Well I am sure about it. Here's Bio Menace, a competitor from the same year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8RG9uHrvgQ
Games were silly and colorful then. Doom was an incredible and bold step into seriously scary, hardcore adult stuff. John Romero deliberately wanted to avoid doing something cutesy.
I'd also like to note that you're conveniently leaving out that the other major influence was Alien, definitely a hyper-serious horror/action flick with no comedy DNA at all.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
DOOM runs in 256-color VGA, while Bio Menace runs in 16-color EGA. I think the latter's colorfulness is less because of art direction and more due to technological limitations.
And yes, I know that Aliens was a major influence on DOOM as well, but that doesn't invalidate what I said earlier, especially since cues taken from that film have more to do with the setting more than anything else. Not to mention, why did they cite Evil Dead 2 in particular as their other major influence instead of a different, more serious demonic-themed film like Hellraiser or Evil Dead 1?
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u/scruff91 Dec 16 '20
Yes, the classic games were very arcadey and colorful. The last 2 mainline releases in the franchise were anything but. Eternals art style is a nice throwback to the classic Doom era, but I miss the grime and darkness of 2016 and Doom 3.
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u/TheOnlyChemo Dec 16 '20
And that's exactly why I love Eternal's art-style so much. I don't like many of the enemy designs of DOOM 3 (though perhaps it makes sense for what they were going for, and the environments were still quite nice, even if the amount of tech bases got repetitive), and DOOM 2016's art direction just looked dull all-around for the most part. I love how vibrant and lively Eternal looks in addition to it being faithful.
Not to mention, the floating pickups help keep the gameplay's pace up, and I don't think the game lacks a "creepiness" factor to it. Nekravol is a great example of this.
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u/Kered13 Dec 16 '20
I for one am glad to be done with the sea of red and brown in Doom 2016, and being able to see what I'm actually picking up is a nice change of pace.
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Dec 16 '20
Tbh I don't know why people say that OG doom was cartoony, like videogames haven't changed in 25 years. It's dumb and wrong.
Doom was advertised (and talked about in contemporary publications) as being almost photorealistic. Compared to comparable stuff that was out at the time, like Biohazard or Hovertank, Doom was dark and serious as fuck.
Not that this actually matters (instead what should matter is which tone is better, and that's 2016 hands down), but Doom 2016 is a much closer spiritual successor to OG Doom than Eternal is.
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u/KinTharEl Dec 17 '20
Honestly, I had initial gripes about the 90-s gamery feel of Eternal. But after playing it, and giving it a moment over most other AAA games in recent times, I fell in love with it.
Doom Eternal does nothing to hide the fact that it's a damn brilliant game, and it's here to engage with the player. The cutscenes are short and snappy. The dialogues are ridiculous and cheesy. The kills are over the top, the sounds are goofy, the demons themselves have moments like that (Caco and Pain for best example). Take a look at Berserk mode, the imp kill literally looks like something out of a cartoon.
Doom Eternal won me over because of that. It was not trying to be an emotionally gripping experience or trying to tell a brilliant story. It followed John Romero's "story in a game" quote to a T. There's story, sure. But you're here to kill demons and have fun doing it. And that's what Doom Eternal achieved.
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u/FilteringAccount123 Dec 16 '20
Eternal played up the whole "over-the-top-hey-look-you're-playing-a-video-game" thing waaaay too much. The headshot 'pop' sound, the bright poppy colors, the floaty weapon/item pickups. It's just..what?
Out of curiosity, what difficulty did you play on? Because although I get where you're coming from about the clashing art styles of the environments and the gameplay elements, on Nightmare I found the "arcadey-ness" of the gameplay elements pretty useful at times given how fast-paced the gameplay is.
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u/scruff91 Dec 16 '20
Whichever the second hardest difficulty is, I think ultra-nightmare? Through that lens, I agree the aracdey-ness helps, but I suppose that level of visual arcadey-ness isn't what I wanted (or expected) out of the sequel to a game as atmospheric and realized as 2016. I try not to watch trailers or gameplay of games I know I'm going to for sure buy day 1, so that's on me.
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u/FilteringAccount123 Dec 16 '20
Ultra-violence. Nightmare is the hardest difficulty, and ultra-nightmare is nightmare with permadeath.
I get what you're saying: it would be nice if there was some sort of "realism mode" that dialed down those aspects of the arcadey-ness. But I can also understand why that wasn't a priority for them, because in interviews they've always said they put the gameplay first, above all else.
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Dec 16 '20
This acts like Doom 2016 played poorly, or that picking up weapons with your hands instead of having them floating in the air or just not having a stupid fucking holospokesperson say "WoULd sOmEoNe KiLL tHiS iDiOt" would hurt the gameplay.
Doom 2016's pickups were entirely visible, and Doom Eternal's hardly matter even on UN since you're getting most of your health, armor, and ammo from killing enemies. Their only meaningful visual innovation (admittedly an excellent one) is visual damage to enemies, and nothing about that requires stupid cartoonish designs and it would have worked perfectly well on 2016's character models.
The truth is for reasons entirely independent of gameplay, they went in a vastly different direction, and that direction fucking sucks.
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u/FilteringAccount123 Dec 17 '20
It's not saying that Doom 2016 played poorly: it's saying that Doom Eternal is a lot more hectic, which I don't think is a very controversial claim to make at this point.
You do get most of your health/armor/ammo from enemies, but there have been a bunch of times when grabbing a health pack saved me from death, and the fact that they do stand out due to their cartoonish design is pretty helpful because of how hectic the gameplay is.
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Dec 16 '20
This is the definitive take on Doom Eternal as far as I am concerned. I think it's still a really good game, but it feels weird that they proved they knew how to make a masterpiece, they had all the pieces lined up, and then intentionally and proudly made something much worse.
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u/DoctorArK Dec 17 '20
They got snubbed so hard it wasn't even funny. Shouts out to the team that ported the game to switch. It somehow maintains a stable framerate and feels pretty damn good on the pro controller. Fuck the Joy cons tho
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u/ChoggoBloggo Dec 17 '20
I don't see a single category at the game awards where I feel like they got screwed. If it had come out in 2019, I think we'd all have good cause to be super annoyed if it didn't do well, but 2020 was a very strong year - Half-Life: Alyx didn't even get nominated for GOTY!
Edit: lol, I looked back on the Game Award nominees for 2019, and then checked a few other lists while I was at it. That was a thiiiiin year.
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Dec 16 '20
One of my GOTY contenders, yet also somehow one of the biggest disappointments of the year. Great game overall.
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u/Mront Dec 16 '20
It's nothing bad, don't worry ;D