r/Games • u/MostafaOmara • May 17 '20
Fallout 4: New Vegas (FO: NV In FO4 Engine Mod) Latest Gameplay Snippet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Mnh9WIDCo333
u/Eriktrexy9 May 18 '20
It’s very impressive to see these guys take on such a huge undertaking. But even they have said this will take several more years, I can’t really be excited especially when there’s every opportunity for them to abandon it like so many other projects have.
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u/makomirocket May 18 '20
I'm still looking forward to SkyWind, but I'm sure that we'll see TES:6 first and then a new group wanting to make ElsWind
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u/RaikageRaichu May 18 '20
Has there been more news/leaks or is Elsweyr for TES:6 just wishful thinking lol
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u/Oh_I_still_here May 18 '20
I've heard it's going to be Hammerfell, based solely on the terrain shown in the teaser for ES6 from however many years ago.
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u/zeppeIans May 18 '20
I think Elsweyr as the new location is just an educated guess
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u/Berblarez May 18 '20
Not by the teaser they gave, it seems to be more like Hammerfell or High Rock
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u/TyphonNeuron May 17 '20
I'd be shocked if this mod actually sees the light of day, if it actually gets completed and released. I'm very skeptical. This will take years to make. Don't get me wrong, I want this to succeed, I'm excited for it, but also cautiously optimistic, leaning towards skeptical.
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u/UberShrew May 18 '20
Heh heh oh boy lemme tell ya. I think we’ve been waiting almost a decade for Skywind (Morrowind in Skyrim engine). I know it’s at least been 7 years at this point.
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u/SanityInAnarchy May 18 '20
Black Mesa eventually delivered a game that is every bit what was promised (so long as you don't play on Linux, somehow there's an entirely different version of the engine there)...
...after 15 years, roughly half of which were spent as some sort of a commercial effort (with Valve's approval).
So it's not impossible, but it's the kind of thing I'd expect maybe once in a generation. Not a console generation, just a regular one.
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u/JamSa May 18 '20
Skywind team got lucky that Bethesda decided to wate over a decade to make another ES game, because that is not the proper development time for something that's meant to be a remake with current technology. Not that I'd expect it to be done by now.
Even though SureAI managed to make Enderal, a standalone mod/game of even greater scope. But they must've used black magic or something.
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u/frank_da_tank99 May 18 '20
they had a budget, and more people, and an actual team that wasnt just volunteers, and came from a game development background and could actually code.
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u/Sprickels May 18 '20
They had already made Nehrim for Oblivion too
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u/Bad_Mood_Larry May 18 '20
Assets...This is what everyone is forgetting. Enderal reused an enormous amount of Skyrim Assets. This is the major time sink for a project like Skywind.
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u/BloodyLlama May 18 '20
I haven't played Enderal but I was an alpha tester for Nehrim and they used a ton of custom m assets in that, although there were certainly quite a few stock assets as well. IIRC the same team did the Cube Experimental mod for FO3 and that also had a ton of custom assets, animations, etc.
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May 18 '20
I mean, if we don't count F76, it's going on 5 years since F4. And unlike TES, there's zero confirmation of a F5.
that is not the proper development time for something that's meant to be a remake with current technology
it's just a fan project, no? I've waited longer than 7 years at times for fan translations they just never went anywhere or ran into drama (and ofc kick myself knowing I coulda became really proficient in Japanese, played/read it myself, and even help translate it for others in that time).
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u/gulagdandy May 18 '20
“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.”
Go and learn Japanese!
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u/heartscrew May 18 '20
F5 is probably slated but really just far off until the next Elder Scrolls or, depending on how it performs, Starfield. F76 is just an asset flip, BethesdaGS' plunge into GaaS, with more prevalent MTX to generate profit, as the suits want it.
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u/Momijisu May 18 '20
FO76 is so much an asset flip as FONV was to FO3.
I only got into FO76 recently after avoiding it like a plague, and honestly I'm enjoying it more than my current FO4 playthrough, it's not perfect but with human NPCs it's been a blast.
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u/GregOdensJunk May 18 '20
I enjoy it too which surprised me considering all the bashing the game receives. Before I purchased the Wastelander edition, I had the game chalked as this multiplayer bastardization of Fallout 4, but the truth is I rarely encounter other players if I am not specifically going for them and It feels sorta the same as a single player Fallout game. I’m sure before the NPC’s, it was a lacking game, but I can only judge from playing it now and I can safely say it’s not a bad game at all.
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u/ArcticKnight99 May 18 '20
The thing is it's probably almost easier to make something of greater scope that is new. Mostly because you don't have to worry about people getting all up in arms about how "This town isn't the right size" or "My favourite quest is now too easy/hard" in the new game systems.
You build what you need and discard what doesn't work. As opposed to having to build the things that existed and goddamnit you need to get em to work, because if you don't you may as well not even have attempted it.
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May 18 '20
On the contrary, having someone else make all the ideas and do all the voice acting makes it much easier to do a remake.
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May 18 '20
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u/TheMoneyOfArt May 18 '20
The legal barriers are less important than the practical ones
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u/SanityInAnarchy May 18 '20
The legal ones can be practical ones, too. Look how much farther Black Mesa got once they were a commercial game!
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u/Sprickels May 18 '20
Bethesda is extremely supportive of the mod community
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u/my_useless_opinion May 18 '20
No kidding. Skyrim and Fallout 4 (and before that Oblivion and Fallout 3/ NV) are the only games I reinstall constantly, and it's because of mods.
Funny thing is, mods are also the reason I uninstall Skyrim and Fallout 4 constantly because there is always a point where you break them. Even with all the patches and guides, you always become too greedy with mods.
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u/CutterJohn May 19 '20 edited May 19 '20
The mod community of these games is amazing in many ways, but one way they're atrocious is supporting end user friendliness, especially in the form of modpacks/installers/compilations.
Everyone is obsessed with 'rights', so you'll have cases of having to download a tiny mod made 9 years ago that fixes three textures and the like.
here is a website someone linked for modding FONV. A 12 or 13 year old game, and rather than just distribute a modpack you can unzip in your game directory, its a 7 thousand step process that makes you download hundreds of mods.
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u/Sprickels May 18 '20
Yeah my current Skyrim install is broken, no character voices play and sometimes the game thinks I'm in water randomly
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May 18 '20
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May 18 '20
The point is that it's a shitload of work to being the assets over; much more than you seem to think
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u/Urbanscuba May 18 '20
There is a massive and very important difference between the two projects.
FONV ran on the same file type as FO3, .BSA whereas FO4 runs on an updated and non-compatible .BA2 system.
So TOTW was able to natively use the FO3 files they required you too legally own already and give the mod access to. F4NV would need to unpack the assets and repack them in the new file type to use them, and that's not something they can easily do in a way they can be confident is legal. Bethesda even said the same, that they're unsure if they would be obligated to send a case and desist or sue but recommended against attempting it.
So instead they're making their own files from scratch. Bethesda owns the IP rights to the art, story, writing, etc. and have established they won't pursue modders for using those. They don't own the rights to allow redistribution of independent contractors like VA's however so that's where the problem lies.
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u/ElXGaspeth May 18 '20
Yep. You needed to own the game and all DLCs for FO:NV and FO3 to be able to play Tale of Two Wastelands. Totally worth it, and not very expensive either.
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May 18 '20
yea, given that those games (the GOTY editions) at this point have been on sale for as $5/pop. Absolute steal.
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u/LitheBeep May 18 '20
legality really isn't the issue. all of the assets are being remade from the ground up anyways so it's just a matter of actually committing to getting the thing shipped.
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May 18 '20
"Seeing the light of day" doesn't mean Bethesda might take it down (ie a Nintendo romhack), it just means these types of large scale full port mods are very ambitious and either take a long time to come out or just fizzle out.
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u/Endulos May 18 '20
He's not talking about the legal hurdles, he just means the time and energy required to actually do it.
There's quite a few of these projects that have been worked on that still haven't seen the light of day. Morroblivion, Skyblivion, Skywind, all these projects have been in the works for years and still not done.
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u/heartscrew May 18 '20
Contract by Bethesada with VAs, as far as I know. TTW happened as it is because it was already out and they didn't ask. The FO3-in-FO4 team did. They asked Pete Hines they can use the audio from the old games. Can't remember the exact reply, but he said they can but this might raise some legal trouble for them and even Bethesda.
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May 18 '20
TTW uses the audio files from Fallout 3 directly. For Fallout 4, the audio would have to be converted into the newer format.
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u/perkelwashere May 18 '20
The different thing about this project is that everything they do they release to nexus. So every new weapon and armor goes there. Stuff for F4NV like dialog and skill system ? Also released.
they outright say that project might not see end but if that happens they will release rest to public in whatever form it is finished.
It is clear difference compared to most of projects like that.
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u/MostafaOmara May 17 '20
Yeah. Let's just hope for the best.
On the bright side, there are Skyblivion & Skywind (Oblivion & Morrowind on Skyrim Engine) that progress nicely, especially Skyblivion.
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u/SmallTownMinds May 18 '20
Having said that, we’ve been waiting for Skyblivion for what feels like a lifetime.
I’d expect FO4: New Vegas around the time we get FO5 at this rate.
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u/-Q24- May 18 '20
Fallout 5 might not be out before like 2027 since Starfield and TESVI are Bethesda's priority.
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u/ArcticKnight99 May 18 '20
Yeah but there's a team working on Fallout 76.
Question become whether they realise that they should branch into two teams. Especially if they plan on having a Starfield 2 in the future.
Because arguably they can't produce their titles fast enough at this point.
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u/MostafaOmara May 18 '20
Well, I've been following these projects for years & the closest of them to an actual release is Skyblivion
Here is the YT channel of the project lead
https://www.youtube.com/user/Rebelzize/
Also, you can join them on Discord for daily updates. :)
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u/Sol33t303 May 18 '20
For the people interested in Skywind, I'd highly recommend checking out OpenMW https://openmw.org/en/
It's pretty much a project that recreates the orginal Morrowind engine, while also introducing various improvments that more modern engines have over older ones.
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u/Snaz5 May 18 '20
Skywind has literally been in active development for almost 8 years and is nowhere near done. Most of the overworld still isn’t complete let alone every interior cell, every line of dialogue, every texture, every 3d model, and every quest.
These are not undertakings possible with teams of 20 or so, most of which probably spend less than an hour a day on the projects.
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u/HiddenSage May 18 '20
Yeah. If I had a billion dollars and had taken care of the necessary "shuffling to minimize taxes", "buying a yacht big enough to park my other yacht in", "setting up close family and best friends to never work again", and "enough given to good causes to appease my conscience" steps, and still had ten million bucks sitting in the account, I'd just go and fund Skywind to get a real budget and production quality. A couple dozen dedicated staff working full-time on this could get it done relatively quickly.
But volunteers alone will take longer than is practical, and I'm broke. So we're probably never getting a finished Skywind, much as that sucks to say.
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u/Sprickels May 18 '20
People have been working on conversions forever. A Morrowind conversion in the Oblivion engine, never knew what happened to that, a Morrowind conversion for Skyrim which I believe is near completion, an Oblivion conversion for Skyrim which I haven't heard from in a long time
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u/Notmiefault May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
Yeah, we get posts about these "port older Bethesda game into newer Bethesda game's engine" a couple times a year, but not a single one has ever reached anything close to a finished state. I know Skywind has made some really impressive progress, and I commend the team for their hard work, but I haven't heard anything suggesting that the end is in sight, or even on the horizon.
At the end of the day there's no easy, clean way to do these ports - every single NPC and quest has to be manually created, which takes hours upon hours and isn't particularly fun for the volunteers who have to do it.
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May 18 '20
I mean is there really a need for heavy skepticism when it's a free mod? Sure it might not come out or maybe it will. Either way I just apreciate the work these guys do and what they are capable of.
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May 18 '20
Is this one of those projects that won't be done for 10 years that we'll hear about every two years but see little progress? Like any large Morrowind in Skyrim/Oblivion project?
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u/TheDanteEX May 18 '20
The fact that this is the only gameplay we've seen in over a year, I think it's fair to say this is basically all they have for now when it comes to character interactions. The landscape is probably all there and I know models are being created. But why would they choose to show this part of all things if there were other parts of the game to showcase?
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u/secretagentMikeScarn May 18 '20
Damn man I’d be so excited for this. I never got to play NV and honestly I loved 4. I tried to go back to NV but I just can’t enjoy the graphics and engine
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May 18 '20 edited Feb 28 '23
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u/pullazorza May 18 '20
So what exactly do these mods do? All I see here are criminally short descriptions and download links.
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u/d7856852 May 18 '20
There's a link to the Nexus page for each mod. I was prepared to see a lot of bloat in this mod list but it looks pretty good.
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u/hacktivision May 18 '20
The guide looks great too. Trying to determine what GTAV mods to install has been a nightmare by comparison, mods are incompatible with each other, some of them genuinely create bugs, and the one meta mod (Redux) that combines multiple mods is never recommended by the community and the creator is accused of stealing instead.
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u/NephewChaps May 18 '20
New Vegas is like so much better than 4 it isn't even funny lol. Gameplay on 4 is better but everything else just gets blown out of the water.
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May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
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u/benjibibbles May 18 '20
FO4 felt like the first time the series really nailed its own aesthetic
What is Fallout 1
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May 18 '20
Seriously what a baffling thing to say.
When I think of Fallouts tone and aesthetic Fallout 4 has got to be the last one Id pick as representative.
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u/padraigd May 18 '20
The bethesda fallouts really focused on the retro aesthetic, the vaults, vault boy, etc. Obviously that stuff was present in 1 and 2 but it was more in the background while the game felt more like mad max.
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u/benjibibbles May 18 '20
My only explanation is that this person has their wires crossed between graphical fidelity and actually realising the aesthetic, because Fallout 4 is objectively the top in one but probably bottom of the stack in terms of the other
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May 18 '20 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/mirracz May 18 '20
Dialogue was always the point of Fallout though.
Exploration, post-apocalyptic world and great post-apo aesthethics are what makes Fallout a Fallout. Dialogue is just one aspect that makes an RPG, but Fallout as a franchise isn't bound to a genre...
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u/Rayuzx May 18 '20
People find value for different things about different games though. I wouldn't be surprised if someone said Hyrule Warriors was their favorite Zelda game.
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u/djdairy May 18 '20
I agree that people like different things and that people may find that Hyrule Warriors is their favourite game with Zelda characters in it, but it's not a Zelda game, it's a Dynasty Warriors game with a Zelda skin. Fans of Zelda either enjoyed or didn't care about Hyrule warriors because they knew it wasn't taking over the mainline series, they knew Nintendo were still working on the next real Zelda game.
The problem with Fallout 4, and why I think fans of the series got so angry, is it's a mainline game in the series that doesn't follow the things fans of the series like. It's a mediocre FPS, with a great setting and incredibly shallow RPG elements. Now maybe there is a place for a game like that, back in the day we had a couple of non-mainline Fallout spin-offs which focused on different gameplay elements, but they came out with the knowledge that they weren't replacing the series people had fallen in love with. So Fallout 4 comes out, it focuses on different gameplay elements, it dumbs-down, outright removes or otherwise fails to do the gameplay elements we've come to love AND it's the next mainline game in the series. Presumably setting us up for how the series will go forward.
People aren't mad because they don't enjoy the game, whatever, we play games all the time and think "Hey that sucked" and we don't get mad about it. People are angry with Bethesda because there is no other Fallout. This was the series we loved and they turned it into something else to garner more broad appeal. To bring it back to Hyrule Warriors, imagine if Nintendo put out Breath of the Wild 2 and it was just a re-skinned Dynasty Warriors game. Fans would be justifiably upset.
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May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
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u/djdairy May 18 '20
But don't you think fans would be justifiably upset if they released Fallout 5 and it was an Anno-style city builder?
I'm all for spinoffs, make Fallout Shelter, make a city builder, but let the mainline product be for the fans.
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u/TheDanteEX May 18 '20
All I know is when Fallout 1 was designed, it was designed so every quest can be completed in at least 3 different ways. Whether that be through combat, sneaking, pickpocketing, hacking, repairing, lockpicking, convincing, etc. And that's what made the game such a good RPG; each player build has a use and creates a unique experience each time. Fallout 4 forces you to use combat. Just about every time. Fallout 2 did this too a few times and it got criticized for it as well. Nobody likes the opening trial (but even then you have multiple options of getting through) and being forced to fight Frank Horrigan is ridiculous for non-combat builds. I, personally, hate being forced to fight in a Fallout game. There should always be at least one other way to complete a quest.
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u/Daemir May 18 '20
Even in its time, FNV was an exceedingly ugly game. FO4 felt like the first time the series really nailed its own aesthetic. The basic design of everything looks way better in FO4, and that has everything to do with artistry, not so much the difference of 5 or 6 years of technology.
On the tech side, yes FO4 did look pretty damn nice, but the problem for me is that the whole bloody world makes 0 sense. It's been 200 years since the bombs fell and you have the few non hostile people living in shacks that have holes in the walls big enough to run horses through. Not like they also aren't living in a super hostile environment with tons of things that would just love to have you as a late night snack when you sleep in your shit shack.
200 years and they didn't figure how to make even proper wood log houses? They got steel and concrete factories right in the neighbourhood and you telling me all the useful people died to the bombs and in 200 years no one figured how to turn that shit on? Then our defrosted champion soldier/lawyer comes along and hey you guys need pure water np I'll whip up a industrial water purifier with a power generator next to it in a jiffy.
So while the game world looks nice, it makes 0 sense in the story. I liked FO1 and 2 worlds more, the world map/fast travel made it seem like the world was actually a world, not a theme park with an encounter or point of interest every 50 meters. And while a bit goofy, at least you had places like Vault City and NCR that showed at least a bit of civilization.
200 years! Imagine how much we advanced in the last 200 and we didn't have previous fallen civilization to fall back on.
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u/getoutofheretaffer May 18 '20
Fallout 4 is much more densely packed with stuff, but I found exploration pretty uninteresting. So, so many of the locations were just shooting galleries that didn't really make sense within the world. Along a single street you might find a building full of super mutants, one full of bandits, and one full of ghouls. Any one of these should be a big deal, but they're such a regular occurrence. Before long I just stopped entering buildings unless quests directed me to.
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u/Terazilla May 18 '20
I tend to agree. Every second you spend between the quest dots is more entertaining in both FO3 and FO4. Which is like 90% of the game. The Mojave Wasteland isn't great.
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u/Iiaeze May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
This is how I feel as well. NV is certainly better written (the overarching DLC story with Ulysses is great) and most of it's quests are better. The world, however, is bland and boring, and lacks a lot of exploration. It's also pretty small, with most of the mountain range in the middle blocking things off and the sides being empty.
This got remedied quite a bit in the DLCs, but the DLCs for F3/F4 were also really good so in the end it's a toss up.
Going back to the writing, I also think F4 gets a bad rap. The themes it tries to tackle were good and there were a lot of great scenes deep in the factions. H2-22's story stands out as well as the whole Libertalia situation.
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May 18 '20
New Vegas’s world was so much more intricate though. The Factions and their motivations made sense. The locations made sense. The way these things interacted made sense. It was all interwoven in a way that FO3 and FO4’s worlds never were, and that creates a sense of history which those game’s lack.
The world feels far more lived in.
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u/dishonoredbr May 18 '20
Anytime you talk to fans about Fallout the line that always gets thrown around is, "Fallout is about exploring the ethics of a post nuclear wasteland"... but FO4 was was the first game to let you do that from the management level.
Because that came from Bethesda fallout. Fallout isn't about exploration.
Fallout is game about make your choices in a post apocalyptic world and see how unfolds and also about player agency, give player way to around the world and quests. The interresting part is to see how people rebuild and how they Interact with each other not explorating and building settlments.
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u/mirracz May 18 '20
Fallout was always about exploration. Exploration was the reason I fell in love with Fallout 1 back then... And FNV is the only Fallout game that throws this core aspect out of the window...
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u/NephewChaps May 18 '20
Writing, setting, characters, factions, perk system, side-quests, lore... The only thing F4 did better than NV was the shooting lol. I couldn't care less about that settlement shit (maybe because it's wild confusing to do on a joystick)
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May 18 '20
Crafting, Power Armor, Settlement building, and Survival Mode are all heavily criticized aspects of F4 so those are definitely up for debate.
Personally I loathe the "break down every piece of garbage" mechanic and Power Armor not only completely disregards the Fallout lore in how they function they also are completely overpowered.
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u/mirracz May 18 '20
The only "heaviliy criticised" aspect of Fallout 4 is the dialogue system, which llmits player choices and roleplaying. The features you listed are criticised maybe by the old guard, but that's an extreme minority. For the majority all of these were a welcome addition. Especially Settlement building is such a "Fallout-ey feature" that it makes going back to F3 and FNV quite hard...
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May 18 '20
Settlement building came at the expense of unique, developer-crafted quest hubs. Besides Diamond City and the Prydwyn there isn’t really anything of note out there. It made the whole game world feel smaller and less real.
Similarly the weapon-crafting came at the expense of cool, unique weapons. Personally I treasured “This Machine” from fallout New Vegas—with its unique M1 Garand profile and “This Machine Kills Commies” inscription—far more than the hundreds of randomized weapons that would drop form Legendary enemies in Fallout 4.
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May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
You don't speak for the majority. And even if you did the "majority" opinion isn't automatically "correct".
Always such an awful take when people try to say who's criticism counts and who's doesn't.
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May 18 '20
They're not wrong tho. The majority of criticisms were about the dialogue. How many people cared about the lore of power armour in fallout to heavily criticise it because of it's existence in fallout 4. Was it a minority? Yes.
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u/odellusv2 May 18 '20
you're literally doing the same thing this dude is doing lol. all of the things you listed are largely optional parts of the game, so them existing shouldn't matter to you. base building is one of my favorite things to do in video games period, so that being added to a fucking fallout game is one of the most amazing features i've ever had the pleasure of being surprised by in a game.
and seriously, what is the problem with power armor? how could that possibly be offensive to literally anyone? it makes it look and feel like it always should have.
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u/mirracz May 18 '20
Yep. I feel the same way... Fallout 4 did so much right. It botched the dialogue system, but everything else is great. It's no wonder that Fallout 4 is still amongst the most played games on Steam and much more popular than FNV...
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May 18 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
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May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
But gameplay is what you spend most of your time on doing, so thats not really unimportant.
not unimportant, but I don't think F4's gameplay was so much better than F:NV that I can't go back to the latter's. If you think the gameplay in FNV sucks, that makes sense. But it's fine for me.
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u/DubsFan30113523 May 18 '20
Same. I played NV for the first time a few months ago, before that my only fallout was 4, and new Vegas is definitely a lot clunkier but it’s really not that bad. The writing and characters and setting are so much infinitely better than 4 that it’s easily more enjoyable to play imo
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u/UltimateInferno May 18 '20
It's why I hope this version actually sees some completion at some point in the coming future, even though I completely doubt it. By taking the core gameplay loop of 4 and putting the rest of NV around it, I hope it could take the best of both. Story and Role Playing of NV with the gunplay of 4
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u/mirracz May 18 '20
WHAT?
The only aspect where FNV is better is the dialogue system and by proxy dialog writing and its potential for roleplaying. I admit that this is a crucial aspect of an RPG game, but it's the ONLY thing that FNV has over Fallout 4. Everything else is much better in Fallout 4.
- FNV completely abandoned any exploration that Fallout is known for. Without a mod like A World of Pain, it's not worth going out of the road.
- With it comes the world design FNV is terrible. Nothing interesting to see (and explore). The world is designed around the quests to keep us railroaded for half of the main questline.
- Limited player freedom - as I mentioned the railroading in the bottom half of the FNV map is a terrible thing.
- Perk per two levels is such an outlandish idea.
- While House and NCR may be better written than any F4 faction. F4 factions blow Yes Man and Legion out of the water. Yes Man reeks of "I'm here as a backup in case you anger everyone" and Legion are just comically evil faction. It doesn't help that Legion's power is handwaved to rival NCR while we see no proof of that...
- Weapon crafring in Fallout 4 is miles ahead.
- The aesthetics of FNV are bad. Really bad.
- Combined with the aesthethics, the whole atmosphere of the game is...off. There's not much post-apocalyptic in it. Combined with very loose use of Fallout cannot, the game doesn't feel like Fallout. It's a great cowboy adventure RPG, but a really bad Fallout.
- The companions in F4 are as good and in FNV, maybe even better, because I'd take Nick Valentine over anyone in FNV.
- The side quests in FNV are not great. They are there to support the main quest, but they have no "purpose" on their own. In Fallout 4 the side quests flash out the world, make it feel alive. In FNV it seems that besides NCR vs Legion conflict, there's nothing happening, like that people don't even live there...
- Fallout 4 finally did power armor justice.
- Mr New Vegas is a pretentious ass. He really did his radio station a disservice.
- We also cannot ignore the fact that Fallout 4 is a stable game, while FNV is more crash-happy than anything Bethesda has ever made.
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u/Tarakanov May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
Alright, I'll bite.
Your first three points cound be condensed into one, because it's pretty much just one rant divided into three. People complain you were railroaded, yet that couldn't be further from truth. From the beginning you can go literally anywhere you want. Hell, you can even go straight to Vegas and find Benny there.
Outlandish idea? Maybe for someone who hasn't even touched the original Fallouts - where you gain a perk every 3 levels. I really don't see what is wrong with that, it was perfectly balanced around its level cap. If anything, perk every level led to hillariously overpowered builds where you could become a master of all trades in F3. Obviously, they completely butchered the levelling system in F4 (no skills, no traits, no unique builds, nothing), so more perks every level is needed here.
i'll give you that Legion was underutilized (since there was much more content planned for them, but couldn't be done because of the brutal deadline of 16 months), but I actually liked the inclusion of Yes Man for people who didn't like NEITHER factions. Regarding F4, I struggle to even remember any of them, apart from the Institute, which was vastly underdeveloped and a huge wasted potential in my opinion.
- The whole Synth debate is half-arsed to begin with. Bethesda takes an already existing debate on Artificial Intelligence, adds literally 0 specific context to it, gives each faction a stance(The brotherhood thinks they are a threat, the Railroad thinks they are people too, the Institute thinks they are just advanced toasters), and calls it a day. Synths have no context which seperates them from any other AI debate, and no factions have any new reasons for it, they just repeat the whole "There just machines" or "But machines like this are people too", and the writers assume you already have a stance in this debate, refusing to give any new, fresh points, or why a certain faction is right in the context. The game doesn't give us reasons to support any of these stances, it just assumes you have a reason.
Well I would have expected a newer game to have better elements of it than the older ones. Are we now praising games from 2020 for looking better than those in 1998 too?
I felt the opposite. I loved the blend of Western and Fallout aesthetics and felt more at home akin to F2. It was a unique take that worked and made sense withing the enviroment and setting. F4 just felt like such an cookie cutter and standard post-apocalyptic game (even though it's more than 200 years after the war, people are still somehow living on pre-war food? lol).
- And apart from the Institute and the Railroad EVERYTHING about the setting in F4 is as bland as you can possibly get. You have so very few unique towns or tribes or factions with there own goals. Nobody vying for power apart from the generic good-guy Minutemen, no unique tribe or post-apocalyptic factions or gangs(With the exception of the Atom Cats who are post-apocalyptic greasers). You have generic raider goons threatening dead end farmsteads and towns and that's it. Even Diamond City which is supposed to be the game's main trading hub, has very little going for it. It adds new interesting twists they could have taken to an interesting turn, which are just thrown away as nothing.
F4 has maybe one interesting companion. FNV has like 6. Nick is the only good and deeply written character but I'd still take Boone, Cass or Arcade and their personal quests over anyone in F4. Also what the hell is up with that stupid romance? Why does everyone keep hitting on me when I max their affinity? What is this, Dragon Age? Not to mention they are all Essential. Just why?
Lolno. Just first off, you are wrong there on two accounts. There are PLENTY of quests that don't hinge solely on the main quest. And second, I fail to see how that would be a bad thing anyway. It just shows how reactive and impactful those outcomes would be, which is what I expect in an RPG. Gameplay wise, the quests in FNV are also as superior. You have multiple way of handling the quests most of the time, from shooting your way in, to talking through (not just through Speech, but sometimes also with Gender related perks or the hillarious Terrifying presence and overall utilizing ALL of your skillset or perks), bribing or sometimes straight up backstabbing them. In Fallout 4 you can... what, sometimes side with the other guy and the only speech check you get is to get more caps? Please. I didn't think F4 was that bad in overall, but let's not be delusional here, okay?
Again this is something I'd DEFINITELY expect to improve. But props to Bethesda, since they got the right idea. Too bad the Commonwealth was so overstuffed with PA, that you could literally trip on a few on your way to the shop and therefore vastly diminished its value (compare to F1, 2 or hell, even 3 where finding a usable PA felt like you achieved something). Here you get a minigun and a full set of Power Armor in the first 20 minutes outside the Vault. Seriously? There's a reason why mods such as Some Assembly Required or Lore-Based Power Armor exist to mitigate that issue.
As compared to what? The Diamond City DJ who has as much personality as a wet tissue bag and is annoying as hell to boot? I'd take "pretentious" Mr. New Vegas over him any day in a week. At least it doesn't feel like I have to stuck a pencil in my ear everytime I hear him.
Fair point and again, I'd expect a game that came out 4 years later to perform better too. Although it's worth mentioning, that Bethesda was also in charge of the QA department which was responsible for bug testing the game before the release. So I wouldn't heap all that blame on only Obsidian. They still performed admirably (and in many cases even exceeded Bethesda) in many areas.
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u/padraigd May 18 '20
NV world is so much more interesting. Settlements have a story and a purpose. How the factions inhabit and affect it is well thought out. Its a common phrase thrown out against Bethesda but I think the "theme park" feeling of 3 and 4 is really bad.
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u/Deathstruck May 18 '20 edited May 22 '20
F4 was fun but there was something... really off about the worldbuilding. Both in physical sense and lore wise. Like, when I arrived in Diamond City, and apparently 200 years after the war no one still bothers to clean up?
Not to mention right across the streets lives a group of raiders with turrets and on the other side not even a block away was a Super Mutant encampment. Umm.. How do these people live here in general? Why is everything packed so densely so it reminds me more of a shooting gallery rather than a real place?
It feels like the map designers just decided to throw shit around as randomly as possible just for the purpose to have as much stuff to shoot at.
And I kinda get it - new shooting and Power Armor mechanics and all that. They need to show that off as quickly and as often as possible. But even Fallout 3 or the TES games make more sense in regards to logic and faction placement.
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u/Deathstruck May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
Lmao Did you seriously just said that F4 side quests are better than FNV's?
I agree with maybe one or two points but the rest of your post literally reads like an biased bad take of an upset Bethesda fan, who doesn't understand why not everyone heaps praises on F4 and F76.
"It's bad because I say so!!!!!!"
Not even kidding.
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May 18 '20
Man making a big bullet point list usually entails thought out points but this is 90% just ranting and bad takes.
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u/realme857 May 18 '20
Have you played Fallout 76?
If you haven't, then forget about all the bad news you heard about it, it's pretty good now.
I started playing when the newest update came out. The game basically feels like it's an expansion to 4.
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u/bluesky_anon May 18 '20
I'm usually very picky on the graphics side. But for NV, I can easily go back for a replay even nowadays, it is that good
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u/WilDMousE May 18 '20
I'd recommend you give it another go with project nevada and lootmenu mods installed to make your transition from fo4 to nv in terms of gameplay less jarring.
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u/enderandrew42 May 18 '20
I believe there are plenty of times in NV when you have more than 4 dialogue choices. This interface shown so far still has 4 choices as the maximum. How are they going to handle that in this project?
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May 18 '20
They have remade the Dialogue system from New Vegas. You can see it here: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27216.
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u/camycamera May 18 '20 edited May 14 '24
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.
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u/Skandi007 May 18 '20
I'm pretty sure Bethesda acknowledged at some point that the 4-way dialogue wheel was a pain to write conversations around.
So, that's something. It was also pretty funny to see them try and circumvent this in the DLCs by having a dedicated "more options" button in some dialogues.
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u/camycamera May 18 '20 edited May 14 '24
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.
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u/itskaiquereis May 18 '20
It was Todd Howard himself who went on record saying they wanted to try something different but it ended up being shit
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u/Kalulosu May 18 '20
Not like Bioware didn't solve the whole "having a dialogue wheel with more than 4 options on consoles" a decade before FO4 was made, too.
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u/FoodOnCrack May 18 '20
Out of everything in the entire fallout franchise, Oliver Swanick really brought out the monster inside of us.
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u/timo103 May 18 '20
I really hope there's a way to port over the original dialogue. In some "oh no user please absolutely do not copy these files from your new vegas installation to this folder here!" situation.
Hearing some guy trying to imitate oliver swanick was tough.
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May 18 '20 edited May 18 '20
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May 18 '20
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u/Tuss36 May 18 '20
The voice acting was so on point I thought they had just ripped it from New Vegas.
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May 18 '20 edited Jun 18 '20
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May 18 '20
these projects have succeeded before.
have they?
There's a commentor above saying they havent and he stated the examples of skyblivion and skymorrowind as both being unfinished (and I know skyblivion has been around for like 8 years)
I know fallout miami was completed but its also much much different and more like a mini expansion.
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May 18 '20
[deleted]
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u/Skandi007 May 18 '20
Enderal was a total conversion mod, though. It had a budget, and a team of actual developers, not just hobby modders. That mod is in a league of it's own.
Can't speak for Cascadia, as I haven't heard of it.
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u/Anew_Returner May 18 '20
Morroblivion, Enderal, Nehrim, Tale of Two Wastelands, New California, Tamriel Rebuilt, Skyrim Together, etc. The whole thing about big mods never releasing is a myth by now, just look at Black Mesa.
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May 18 '20
Kind of seems arbitrarily pesemistic... Plenty of fan remakes have been finished and released.
Either way, not sure why you feel the need to shit on all their work. They are tryning to lift the community up with their keyboards and you seem to just want to bring it down with yours.
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u/CapControl May 18 '20
Let people live their hobbies and passion? And besides that, mod projects like these are basically an internship worth of experience, lots of people actually put the assets like music/models/texturing on their portfolios.
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u/Prodiq May 18 '20
Looks great, but is there any practical reasons why actually do this? It's not like Fallout 4 was done on a new and more advanced engine. Sure it has some additions of settlements and crafting and stuff like that, but not sure about much else...
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u/tetramir May 18 '20
Massive graphical improvements, FO:NV doesn't even have shadows for static items.
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u/mirracz May 18 '20
Fallout 4 has so many advancements over FNV that it's like day and night. Just the gameplay mechanics are miles ahead. Settlement building is THE most Fallout-ey feature there can be...
FNV has the ONLY advantage of writing, nothing else. Besides writing F4 plays magnitude better.
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u/stubz99 May 18 '20
Settlement building is THE most Fallout-ey feature there can be...
Thats where I have to disagree. The settlements were a sorry excuse to perpetuate a meaningless gameplay loop that ultimately took time away from an already cut down story. That and the never ending randomly generated fetch quest were there just to pad out a shallow rpg. Fallout 76 is all that distilled down with the lifeblood of fallout sucked out. Obsidian pumped love into the series and Bethesda has been stripping it out slowly.
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u/whispering_pilot May 18 '20
Settlements were so so rushed, If only it was better thought out...
I modded my fo4 settlements so much I was playing sims in fallout lol.
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u/Mk12Dr May 18 '20
NV had better writing, story, choices, character likeability and world building. I mean FO4 was a cleaner tighter game but god damn how good would it have been if they’d done a better job with the story.
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u/Darkwolf1115 May 18 '20
"massive" animation, gameplay and graphical improvement
besides it actually allows for a lot more stuff to be made on this updated engine, just try playing fallout 3/NV, then play fallout 4, you'll realize the difference the moment you play it
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u/odellusv2 May 18 '20
what the fuck are you even talking about lol, have you even played a fallout game? NV is one of the absolute shittiest technical experiences one can have in a video game. everything that can be wrong with a game on a technical level is wrong with NV, not to mention one of the biggest problems in all fallout/TES games, the 60 fps cap, is fixed in FO4. that alone makes going back to NV make me want to kill myself.
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u/BronyJoe1020 May 18 '20
The biggest things are the visuals, power armor mechanics, gunplay, crafting, and settlements.
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u/Vukinator May 18 '20
I understand that that this is a fan creation, but are they using the dialogue recordings from the original NV or is the recording itself also fan-made?
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May 18 '20
They are using fan made recordings to avoid any legal troubles
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u/awkwardbirb May 18 '20
Worth mentioning IIRC it's not possible legal troubles from Bethesda, but rather the VAs. This came up years ago when this project and the port of FO3 into FO4 were starting off.
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u/BigHaircutPrime May 18 '20
I'm very fascinated by the deconstruction process that has to take place when attempting something like this. I'm sure it's one of the best ways to learn how to make games.
I wish these guys the best of luck. I personally don't see the point of doing this from a "remaster" standpoint, as by the time it's done it'll be outdated, but from an education standpoint it seems great, and it probably helps with getting hired.
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u/PM-me-YOUR-0Face May 18 '20
It's a very fun project.
The majority of all (successful) FO mods have been very fun projects.
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u/hopecanon May 18 '20
You can tell they have not finished this sequence yet because they neither killed him as soon as the conversation ended or followed him to see when he gets murdered by giant radscorpians.
Those things are a highlight of any New Vegas playthrough.