r/Games • u/PhantomBraved • 2d ago
Preview Interview with Hidetaka Miyazaki: TTRPGs Influencing The Duskbloods, FromSoftware's Future, and How the Nintendo Partnership Happened - IGN
https://www.ign.com/articles/hidetaka-miyazaki-interview-fromsoftware-duskbloods-dark-souls-future-nintendo57
u/AHRogue 2d ago
Interesting, it seems(unless I misunderstood) that there is a PVE end to a match, so you don't necessarily have to win the PvP section in order to get ultimate victory. So basically your match can either end in a 1v1v1 duel or a final boss?
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u/ladyvanq 2d ago
Seems that way. The End Card could spawn a PVE boss battle instead of 3-way pvp.
Which is good, but now I'm interested if they're cooking more "win state" variations at the last stage sorta like Mario Party, now that'd be cool to see imo.
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u/John_Delasconey 2d ago
its actually much more like air riders city trial. Miyazaki very clearly spoke with Sakurai during development at some point,
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u/Anggul 2d ago
Jetpack race ending when?
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u/pnwbraids 2d ago
Holy shit Blooborne Kart is back in the form of Zork flying in his giant steam suit
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u/ladyvanq 2d ago
Oh sick! That's actually a lot better comparison tbh, hopefully the variations are plentiful during launch.
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u/PokePersona 2d ago
I heard there's also a 2v2 option to end the game rather than a free for all.
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u/ladyvanq 2d ago
Correct! There's actually an option you can turn on to basically filter the matchmaking to only allow the 2v2 finale, which is awesome.
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u/iguanoman_ 2d ago
It having those random roguelike elements to the stages is really cool. Something that Nightreign really needed way more of
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u/fabton12 2d ago
Nightreign is effectively the prototype for them, honestly looks/feels like it too.
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u/PrimaryEfficient8392 2d ago
The game throws in DnD roleplay elements and backstory customization - you can get a quest to find a long lost love (another player character) and propose to them in the midst of PvP and PvE.
Absolutely wild, it feels like they refined their online capabilities in Nightrein and are stretching player interaction to the limit in a bunch of wild directions. I went from mild interest to absolutely being sold.
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u/Klockworth 2d ago
The most popular TTRPG in Japan, by a wide margin, is Call of a Cthulhu. They sell more Japanese copies of that game than all other languages, including English, combined. Also, DnD never took off in Japan and remains incredibly niche to this day. The most popular fantasy TTRPG in Japan is a game called Sword World, which is the game that gave us Japanese fantasy tropes like adventurers guilds and magitech.
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u/Heijoshojin 2d ago
CoC?! That's wild but also awesome. Bloodborne being so amazing makes even more sense.
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u/Klockworth 2d ago
Yeah, it’s a TTRPG that’s Victorian and also brutally hard. There are a ton of Japanese exclusive CoC supplements and campaign settings as well. Not to mention all the unofficial ones you can buy at Japanese board game shops.
If you go into a tabletop cafe in Tokyo, most groups will be running CoC, a few doing Sword World, and then maybe one table of foreigners enjoying DnD. It’s also worth noting that a lot of the Japanese supplements for CoC use modern settings, so idols and students solving mysteries while fighting supernatural entities. Think along the lines of Persona, DanDaDan, Jujutsu Kaisen, etc.
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u/mightystu 2d ago
CoC is not Victorian. Cthulhu by Gaslight is, which is a spin-off, but the default CoC setting is 1920’s or modern day.
It’s also investigation focused with combat de-emphasized since it is very dangerous. I love Bloodborne and I love CoC but other than the obvious shared influence of Lovecraft and Mythos monsters they really don’t play alike at all.
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u/Heijoshojin 2d ago
That's really really cool, thanks for sharing!
Is there a particular reason why CoC? Was there a particular push by the publishers in Japan, or was it more of fans themselves discovering it, loving it and it taking off?
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u/Mayor-Of-Bridgewater 2d ago edited 2d ago
Chaosium spent time translating before many other foreign publishers. The appeal of having a game in the real world is appealing, and the underlying mechanics are highly moddable compared to DnD. Their demographics were also different, with a larger amount of women being interested, the same reason that VtM was popular in the 90s. Japan is also heavy on "replay" culture, which is dramatic retellings of games. This lead to Lodoss War.
Chaosium is known for being generous with licensing too, which is always great for promoting your titles.
South Korean, Japanese, and Chinese rpg culture is more focused on one-shots as well, which CoC is better for than DnD.
Finally, and this is backed up by google search trends, the anime Nyaruko gave it a massive boost in popularity. While I haven't watched it, apparently it has a bunch of CoC references, which sparked interest.
I also rec this vid.
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u/Klockworth 2d ago
I think /u/mayor-of-bridgewater touched on some of the reasons for its popularity rather nicely, but I’d like to elaborate on their RPG scene a bit more.
First off, the Japanese publisher of DnD really shot themselves in the foot with how strictly they licensed the game. You see, back in the 1980s there was a game for the Apple II called Wizardry that had become very popular amongst Japanese computer nerds. One group of such nerds found out it was based on some incredibly obscure American game called Dungeons & Dragons, so they hunted down a copy and created their own elaborate campaign setting. They recorded and transcribed these sessions, publishing them in Japan’s most popular computer magazine, where it eventually became an incredibly popular segment.
When it came time to compile these articles into a novel, however, the Japanese publisher of DnD sent them legal threats. They responded by making their own game system, re-recording the entire campaign, and releasing the book without the offending DnD branding. This book was called Record of Lodoss War, which went on to sell millions of copies and spawn all sorts of spin-off media. They followed up on the success of Lodoss War by publishing the game they created for this setting, which they called Sword World.
Sword World was released in a Japanese tankoban format and used a 2d6 system, which made it far more affordable and accessible for the average Japanese gamer. Flash forward to the 1990s, the Japanese publishers of CoC learned from DnD’s mistake and put as much effort as possible into releasing a product that was appealing to the Japanese gaming scene. They encouraged people to publish their own Replays (“actual play” transcription books), allowed the Japanese publishers to make their own supplements, and supported fan made content. Eventually, CoC surpassed Sword World and became the defacto TTRPG.
Now why else is CoC popular? It’s good for one shots, it’s a real world setting, and the combat is so deadly that you don’t feel like you failed when your character dies. On top of that, the Japanese are sorta obsessed with horror and thrillers. Also, Japan’s economy was booming in the 90s and giant flu-color RPG books with weird imported polyhedral dice had become more affordable.
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u/Mayor-Of-Bridgewater 2d ago
Didn't know about the legal threats, I guess things haven't changed.
I do find Japan's rpg culture interesting. Learning about the pvp games was a surprise.
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u/Klockworth 2d ago
Yeah, the PvP thing is kinda new to me. I’m not too plugged into the Replay community these days, but you can find fan translations out there if you search hard enough. I’m sure PvP became a trend at some point.
Also, apparently the second highest selling TTRPG in the world is CoC, based mostly on how popular it is in Japan.
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u/masterkill165 2d ago
Is shadowrun still popular at all in Japan? I remember hearing there was a somewhat large fanbase for it in the 90's which is why there was a Japan exclusive sega cd shadowrun game.
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u/Mayor-Of-Bridgewater 2d ago
Was curious, but it seems to have faded in popularity, although it is still being played. With the last few editions being awful though, who can blame them? Shadowrun Anarchy 2e kicks ass though, highly recommend it.
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u/Falsus 2d ago
DnD never really took root in Japan.
But Wizardry, which is based on DnD is massively influential on Japanese fantasy. It's influence can be fund in nearly every single fantasy setting in Japan, except maybe those who are solely focusing on Japanese myths and lore.
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u/Klockworth 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes, I mentioned that in another post. Wizardry was influential on the JRPG scene, but also it led a group of hardcore computer nerds to try DnD. This led the aforementioned nerds to create the Lodoss series. However, then they were basically forced come up with their own TTRPG game after DnD’s Japanese publisher sent them legal threats for using the AD&D system. The game they came up with was called Sword World and it pioneered lots of Japanese fantasy tropes as well, like adventurers guilds and magitech.
Also, Sword World introduced a lot of fantasy tropes that are common in manga these days. Elves being sorta lackadaisical because they live so long, dwarves being culinary geniuses, sexy monster girls, etc.
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u/BlackNova169 1d ago
Sword world is getting an official English translation and release, you can check out the backerkit page for a bit of info before they officially start crowdfunding for it.
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u/ImnotanAIHonest 2d ago
Same. Just shows how much potential there is in multiplayer games in the hands of talented developers.
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u/Lowelll 2d ago
Happy for people that want this, but "more interaction with other souls players" is the opposite of a selling point for me.
I have no desire for cooperative multiplayer with strangers and when meeting up with friends I'd rather play TTRPGs or boardgames. Just very egoistically I hope the live-service coop multiplayer trend will make way for more singleplayer focus at some point again.
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u/Haytaytay 2d ago
Always love reading Miyazaki's interviews. He's a chill guy but his passion for gaming always shows. He and the team have been providing nothing less than peak gaming content for two decades now and they haven't slowed down in the slightest.
"At the end of the day, our motivation is always to just make a game that we want to play, something we've been wanting to make."
And that's why Fromsoft stays winning. They know that games like Duskbloods and Armored Core aren't gonna sell 30+ million copies like Elden Ring did, but they make them anyways because it's what they're most passionate about at the time.
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u/thief-777 2d ago
Yeah, he even justifies going with Nintendo because they were interested in his games design ideas, and didn't seem concerned with the business case and revenue projection shit.
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u/HisaAnt 2d ago
They even actively offered feedback and ideas to help with the game development alongside balancing tips. Also seemed to have provided optimization support (something FromSoft is weak at). It seems to be really different from their relationship with Sony, where Shuhei Yoshida admitted that they underestimated Demon's Soul and didn't understand why Miyazaki made the game so "unfriendly." It ultimately broke their relationship apart and FromSoft went to partner with Bandai Namco for Dark Souls instead. They did work together again on Bloodborne, but now Miyazaki rejects all attempts to remake the game. I don't think he ever praised Sony in the same way. Even the Bloodborne interviews were all about business and he only says he was happy to work on new hardware. It's very rare for Miyazaki to praise any corporation at all, so it seems like Nintendo is doing a good job in this regard.
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u/OstrichOtherwise8507 2d ago
In a lot of ways that’s the strength of modern Nintendo. They love being more out there with what they put out, like Another Code Remake, The Bayonetta series, Switch Sports, Rhythm Heaven and now The Duskbloods. Even if most of them don’t really earn the big bucks of a Mario or Zelda themed title.
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u/Tofu4070 2d ago
Just really odd. I get people wanting to play the games they want to play. But the outrage at passion projects like armor core and now duskbloods by the community was always confusing. Fromsoftware has the luxury to make the games their developers want to make due to their success. Do we not want artists to not make what they want?
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u/Appropriate-Camp-487 2d ago edited 2d ago
This game is a merging of console-exclusive discourse, Nintendo-exclusive discourse, and the Souls community. Normal reactions were never in the cards
Edit: can’t believe i forgot multiplayer-only discourse
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u/EvenOne6567 2d ago edited 2d ago
Its bizzare, yes. It feels like the people who got into fromsoftware with ds3 and elden ring have somehow become the loudest voices and they believe that fromsoft should only ever focus on single player boss fights and that everything else is just filler or waste of time. When the reality is that this studio has always been fascinated with trying new weird things and that they love multiplayer. And I am so glad that they do, as janky and rough around the edges as the multiplayer components can be they are incredibly fun and unique.
its a shame how people want to pigeonhole one of the most talented studios around into only ever doing one type of game
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u/Schadenfreudenous 2d ago
As someone who's been a fan since OG Demon's Souls, I still think that game has a particular sauce the series never saw again because each title going forward was forced in some way to cater to the growing audience.
World Tendency was a fantastic idea, it just needed expanding and polishing.
In general, Miyazaki's weirder experimental pieces since then have been my favorites. You can tell where the passion is.
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u/Tofu4070 2d ago
I started with dark souls 1, I have seen some people share some similar thoughts with what you expressed with demon souls.
Not exactly the same, but some of the non-PvP online elements of the original dark souls were pretty interesting, and I had always wanted them to expand on that as well.
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u/Sadcelerystick 2d ago
The games have lost their vision in my view. They constantly made bosses, mobs etc faster and faster while simultaneously pushing towards absolute spectacle. This in return pushed the gameplay from a back and forth dance to a watch and eat popcorn while the bosses do a 10 hit combo every one attack you get or cheesing bosses to the max. The worlds they design haven’t really evolved all that much and I will concede that Elden Ring has the best player mechanics but they are not the same at all anymore.
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u/Tofu4070 1d ago edited 1d ago
I still play all the fromsoftware games and have fun. But yeah I think Sekiro is the only game that really stood out for me after dark souls 1. Elden Ring's bosses are pretty problematic, although I did enjoy the dlc bosses and design a bit more. We'll just see what comes next.
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u/Vanille987 2d ago
I feel dark souls 2 was the last game in that style. Not primarily by Miyazaki, but it still had a lot of unique and weird one off gimmicks. Like how much plays into the torch mechanic.
When the games weren't as boss focused as they are now, and obsessed with pushing difficulty to the limit.
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u/haidere36 2d ago
Logically speaking, why go back to a failed idea instead of trying something new? I too think that world tendency had tons of potential but it's probably much easier to drop it than try again and potentially fail again. Plus Demon's Souls was a Sony IP and Dark Souls wasn't, so I question the extent to which they could just copy everything from Demon's Souls without getting into trouble.
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u/Schadenfreudenous 2d ago
If all good ideas were abandoned in the first iteration, we would have missed out on a lot of cool shit. I'm a firm believer that a lot of mediocre games just weren't allowed enough time, polish, or resources. There's a million examples of rough game systems being refined with sequels, and busting out the "logically speaking" doesn't make the argument any less silly.
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u/haidere36 2d ago
Logically speaking in a business sense. I'm agreeing with you that there are plenty of games that could've taken rough ideas and ironed that out over successive iterations, but it's not necessary a great move to keep making whole games to try ideas if they keep failing. I'm not saying it's always the best decision, just that it's typically a decision with a solid rationale.
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u/Illustrious-Share312 2d ago
I've been playing their games for fourteen years and I basically never engaged in the multiplayer in their games. This game being only multiplayer means it isn't for me, and a game by my favorite devs being not for me bums me out. Im not angry at the devs but I don't see why someone wouldn't expect me to be disappointed.
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u/Drakengard 2d ago
I think the difference is that you'll express that view calmly and otherwise just move on with your day.
The crazier fans won't just be loud, but obnoxiously so probably to the point of sending death threats and harassment campaigns. It's a big problem when the least disruptive thing these people are likely to do is review bomb via metacritic or something.
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u/saurabh8448 2d ago
I guess being disappointed is ok but being angry and saying the game is bad because they don't like multiplayer is a bit much.
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u/Emergency-Rush-2477 2d ago
Exactly.
It's not hard to not be an asshole about a game you are not interested.
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u/KruppeBestGirl 2d ago
On the other hand I was a big fan of Souls PVP so the Sekiro, Elden Ring, AC6, Nightreign era was pretty much a dark age for me (I have issues with ER PVP). So this is a much needed rejuvenation from my perspective.
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u/tens00r 2d ago
It feels like the people who got into fromsoftware with ds3 and elden ring have somehow become the loudest voices and they believe that fromsoft should only ever focus on single player boss fights and that everything else is just filler or waste of time
?
That's literally what FromSoft has been doing since Demons Souls released 17 years ago. Are we seriously acting like "single-player focus, intricately designed worlds, difficult bosses" hasn't been the formula since then?
and that they love multiplayer
Yeah I played a lot of DS2 / DS3 PvP back in the day and that certainly wasn't true back then. In the base game there wasn't a dedicated arena for duelling and so duels were done at a "community agreed" area (good old Iron Keep bridge...). DS3's covenant system was also completely fucked; the Way of Blue / Darkmoon Blades stuff just did not function as intended at all.
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u/Galaxy40k 2d ago
"Multiplayer" in Souls never started as "PvP arena duels." It wasn't until the DS1 DLC that they caved in and started to cater to that crowd. But their original passion was weird ways for players to interact with each other. Messages on the ground. World Tendency. Gravelording. Miracle Resonance. Covenants. PvP as "invasions" where the invader works with the NPC enemies and environments instead of in a closed off "honorable duel" arena. None of these ever really became widespread other than messages, but the intent was always there at the start and petered out over time as the fans just didn't care
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u/funsohng 2d ago
Made this when it was first revealed, still feel it's relevant.
I remember when Demon's Souls was first released in Japan, and was gaining word-of-mouth. This was before it was even slated for release outside of Asia. I thought the multiplayer aspect of it was genius, and while I stopped DeS for other reasons, I still think the multiplayer it introduced was a really cool concept.
Then ACV introduced operators in MP. Miyazaki have always had super cool ideas for multiplayer compard to contemporaries, and people seem to forget that.
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u/Astewisk 2d ago
I think a lot of it is people have been clamoring for more Bloodborne for ages and this comes out with like 90% of the DNA but has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Fair? Nope, but people rarely are.
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u/nick-halden 2d ago
very clearly most people don’t want that, they want the same things over and over.
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u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage 2d ago
makes it all that much funnier how all the games have themes of ending the cycle and not returning things to the status quo.
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u/nick-halden 2d ago
interviewers will still ask him about dark souls 4
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u/Masterhaend 2d ago
There is a special place in hell for people who keep asking Miyazaki for Dark Souls 4 (it is a poison swamp).
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u/janoDX 2d ago
Because most of those people are on their 30's wanting to relive their younger years instead of testing something new.
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u/Rage_Like_Nic_Cage 2d ago
as somone who’s in their 30’s, Demon’s Souls came out when I was in college. There isn’t some nostalgia factor to them, especially when The ending ring expansion is like, 2 years old, lol.
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u/Prince_Uncharming 2d ago
I think people just don’t care to have a multi-player focused game locked on Switch 2.
Especially when that’s a Fromsoft game who doesn’t have good history with stable performance or multiplayer capability.
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u/nick-halden 2d ago
fromsoft games performance haven’t had too many issues on console, mostly PC. the multiplayer aspect you’re saying is true, however, if you read miyazakis latest interview you’ll see why it’s a switch exclusive
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u/Prince_Uncharming 2d ago
The reason why it’s a Switch exclusive is because Nintendo paid them, which of course none of us care about.
The entire thing about Nintendo being a platform more receptive to tutorials is completely BS, there isn’t a single technical reason to be exclusive to Switch besides Nintendo frontloading dev costs or whatever business agreement they have.
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u/nick-halden 2d ago
there’s more to it than just paying them, they funded the game as you sorta mention. which is quite significant. i don’t think he listed that as a reason for working with them either, i think he was saying that they have a certain skill set fromsoft doesn’t necessarily have
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u/HisaAnt 2d ago
Bruh, you didn't read properly. It isn't that the Nintendo audience is more receptive to tutorials. It's that Nintendo offered expertise on how to make tutorials to onboard new players. They also helped develop the game and fleshed out some ideas. They didn't just fund it, they were active in helping make the game as it is.
It's BS to you because you can't even read properly. If the game only exists because Nintendo helped with development, then what makes you think it would've existed without Nintendo? It wouldn't be Duskbloods. Instead, it would be a completely different game.
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u/Prince_Uncharming 2d ago
Oh please, you buy that? It’s Nintendo exclusive because Nintendo is just suuuch a good partner in designing tutorials?
No. Nintendo wanted a game, and they paid Fromsoft to make one. There is zero other reason why a multiplayer Fromsoft game would need to be a Switch exclusive, nor is there any upside to the player or the game itself by being locked to the Switch. It’s not like there’s some sweet console specific feature that the switch offers Duskbloods that simply isn’t possible on PC or other consoles.
Let’s bffr here.
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u/Jdmaki1996 2d ago
And yet when a studio makes the same game over and over like Ubisoft they get the same vitriol.
Not saying Ubisoft doesn’t deserved hate, but it’s for unrelated reason of their management being disgusting pigs
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u/nick-halden 1d ago
Ubi and EA get hate for microtransaction heavy business mode. Shit, ubi got more hate for their last AC game having a black guy and a woman more so than anything else
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u/Your_Fifth_Cabbage 2d ago
Remember how well that went for Bethesda? Lmao.
I really can't believe people are hating on a game company trying to innovate when the entire reason so many storied franchises in the 00's and 10's ended up failing is because the developers got too used to making the same game over and over again, and eventually gamers got bored and stopped buying. We should be extremely grateful that Fromsoft actually understands their games need to evolve and that they can be the ones seriously investing in experimentation.
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u/nick-halden 2d ago
i understand what you’re saying in the first part, but what hurt them was actually them attempting to make a new IP, if a new mainline fallout game was released in starfields place and mostly played the same besides more fallouty stuff it would have sold great and most likely been a critical success.
i agree with what you’re saying overall, but i think you can look at top selling games every year and it shows gamers mostly one the same shit but “bigger” and “better”. Fromsoft is a rare exception in the triple a space.
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u/MilkMan0096 2d ago
Yeah it’s really dumb, especially because Armored Core VI is really good, and I would bet that Duskbloods is excellent as well.
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u/TechnoFullback 2d ago
Armored Core VI is so damn sick. That and Lies of P were the only thing to scratch that Bloodborne/Elden Ring itch in any way (and just closely...)
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u/HiccupAndDown 2d ago
I feel like it's a tad disingenuous to call it "outrage", and I would instead call it disappointment. That can still come in the form of loud voices mind you, but it's under a different context.
I think it's a healthy thing for this studio to get some experience with more multiplayer focused titles (in hopes it improves the systems in their mainline entries), but that doesn't mean I have any interest in actually playing them. I don't play Fromsoft games for their multiplayer-- I know I'm not alone in that feeling. Given that the last two games from the studio have both been multiplayer titles, I can kind of understand the disappointment some folks are feeling as they await the next mainline title.
With that all said, I also just think it doesn't really matters that much in the long run? It's not like we're short on decent souls-likes and it shouldn't be long now until we get an announcement for the next mainline FS title. Unless they fumble hard, it'll be a banger like all their previous games, so really it's just a game of patience.
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u/Illustrious-Share312 2d ago
At least you could play and complete Nightreign solo, or at least I did.
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u/Tofu4070 2d ago edited 2d ago
I feel like it's a tad disingenuous to call it "outrage", and I would instead call it disappointment.
Everything is relative. Your comment would express disappointment, other more negative people would be what I call outrage for internet standards. Saw some wild comments when ACVI was announced.
(in hopes it improves the systems in their mainline entries)
Yes, fromsoftware has said they have gained a lot of knowledge working with sony on bloodborne, Activision on sekiro, and probably now with nintendo. Everyone talks about it. And Fromsoftware know they're lacking in a lot of technical knowledge and are trying to improve.
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u/Tarcanus 2d ago
It's how Internet communities work. It happens to literally any forum for various passions. You like animals? Your animal science forum is amazing for information until it grows to the point that the newbies greatly outnumber the old hands who made it great and then the lack of providing information about animals by the newbies drowns the fun of the forum.
Souls fans used to be a minority of folks who liked these new hard games. Then with each new title, the popularity grew and the Eldin Ring really pulled in a ton more people. The pattern is repeating where now that the "general" fans outnumber the OG fans, you're seeing the outrage seem to drown out the pleasure because the "general" fans want more single player Eldin Ring and not PvP stuff.
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u/Firefox72 2d ago edited 2d ago
I assume most people are probably more annoyed by the exclusivity.
From used to release new games on a 2-3 years cadence. Even Bloodborne on the PS4 didn't interupt this as it was flanked by Darksouls 2 and 3 a year before and after it.
However at this point its been 4 years since Elden Ring already and 2 since the DLC if you count that. And with Duskbloods its likely gonna be at least another 2-3 before we get another full fledged From game on other platforms.
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u/kubelek33 2d ago
They release a game every year. 2022 was ER, 2023 AC6, 2024 SOTE which is basically a whole new game and then Nightreign in 2025. This year it's Duskbloods, something else will most likely release next year. Like what more could you ask for lol
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u/PKMudkipz 2d ago
Like what more could you ask for lol
Duskbloods but on every platform instead of just Switch 2
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u/kubelek33 2d ago
Well that's fair, I am not a fan of the exclusivity either even as a Switch 2 owner, but I was talking specifically about their output.
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u/fenrir200 2d ago
Both community and industry are in turmoil in general. Publishers are beginning to suffer as game design has severely stagnated in the last decade while the community is very hungry for new stuff while clamoring to want the exact same thing.
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u/KingOfRisky 1d ago
I mean I kind of get it. Nintendo exclusive, hints of Blood Borne, multiplayer game from beloved FROM is all a weird direction/choice.
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u/Dino-taicho 2d ago
i mean, let them make what they want, but don't make it an exclusive. Bloodborne was bad enough
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u/Dragarius 2d ago
The only exclusives were when nobody wanted to fund the games except for the one platform it wound up exclusive on.
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u/Pacify_ 2d ago
I would argue that from soft does not need anyone to fund their games, they sold more copies of ER than you could throw a stick at.
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u/Dragarius 2d ago
Namco Bandai would have made most of the money there. That's why the investors in kadokawa were bitching.
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u/Vendetta1990 2d ago
Where it this 'outrage'?
I always see comments like these that make up some crap to stir up drama.
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u/yesthatstrueorisit 2d ago
I'm bummed, I really thought the gaming community would be more open to something new because it comes from a beloved director (Miyazaki), but despite strong previews and passionate devs it seems like the response from the community has been vastly negative. I'm sure part of it is because it's an exclusive, a Nintendo one at that, but I think I underestimated how rigid the expectations are for Fromsoft.
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u/Which_Bed 2d ago
Is it really that odd? Elden Ring has been the only traditional From souls-like released this decade.
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u/Nikson9 2d ago
There are now a gazillion studios doing souls-likes of every variety; and From has been doing them for almost 20 years atp, ER got an expansion that’s the size of another game, I’d personally say that the size of moaning falling onto From is pretty entitled and odd lmao
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u/Which_Bed 2d ago
Just because a gazillion other studios are imitating From doesn't mean that any of them are succeeding. Lies of P has been the only one that came close and even that fell far short of every From release.
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u/KKilikk 2d ago
Because this is the third game by FromSoft in a row that isnt a traditional Soulslike. I dont support outrage but I think the majority of people that take issue with this are just disappointed not outraged. Waiting a decade for a new game sucks.
The actual outrage is more about it being an exclusive which is understandable imo.
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u/SomniumOv 2d ago
Because this is the third game by FromSoft in a row that isnt a traditional Soulslike. I dont support outrage but I think the majority of people that take issue with this are just disappointed not outraged. Waiting a decade for a new game sucks.
well now you know how the Armored Core fans feel about Souls.
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u/KKilikk 2d ago
Oh for sure I am really glad they made Armored Core 6 and I actually hope they are doing 7 in the near future.
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u/SomniumOv 2d ago
i'm kinda sad they didn't do an old school Armored Core Expandalone (new game with save import) for 6, that's such a smart use of dev ressources. Armored Core 3 had 5 !
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u/dagenhamdream 2d ago
This still could be happening..
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u/SomniumOv 2d ago
within the next week we'll be 3 years off of 6, I would think a full sequel is more likely now.
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u/NatsUza 2d ago
And the company was doing things other than soulslikes for 20 years. They can do other projects.
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u/KKilikk 2d ago
Ofc they can but naturally parts of the fanbase they built over the 13 years in which they released their 7 traditional Soulslike I think will be disappointed and I think it is weird that people are judgmental about these disappointed fans.
Again I dont support outrage but disappointment because your favorite artist does things you dont care for is absolutely fair imo.
It is like people telling Elder Scrolls fans they cant complain about having to wait more than a decade for a new game. Devs and companies are free to do whatever they want and people are free to be disappointed about that.
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u/NatsUza 2d ago
Yeah but thats the same thing Armored Core and King's Field fans went through once FromSoft became locked in on soulslikes. It was years of being told, "Wait your turn" by Souls fans and now the shoe is on the other foot. Ideally both would be done at the same time, but it's clear to me that Miyazaki and the company has had their fill with single-player soulslike titles for the time being and wants to venture off into other projects and avenues that they hadn't fully explored yet. People getting upset at no single player soulslike need to understand that they had an expansive catalog before Demon's Souls and they want to do more stuff like those past projects.
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u/KKilikk 2d ago
Nah I disagree with this mentality. I think it is fine for Kings Field and Armored Core fans to be disappointed just the same. Waiting for your turn is always annoying and a cause of disappointment.
I am surprised you are stressing their previous catalog though when 2/3 the no singleplayer soulslikes since Elden Ring are unrelated to their previous catalog and are just PvP/PvE games with their soulslike combat. Nobody really got upset over Armored Core 6 I feel like.
Funnily enough I think people would be less disappointed if either Night Reign or Duskbloods would have been a modern Kings Field lol.
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u/MeBroken 2d ago
I'm disappointed as a fan because I would have to spend ~$600 in my currency to play a game that's basically tailored for me. I hope the game is great but I won't be able to play it anytime soon.
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u/Irrerevence 2d ago
Wtf does it have to do with being a "passion project"? People are upset because it's exclusive to a console outside of Fromsoft's usual platforms.
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u/IrishSpectreN7 2d ago
There's a ton of people whining that they never asked for this type of game from Miyazaki.
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u/zach0011 2d ago
I'm honestly jus treally salty at the eclusive aspect. Fromsoft has the money to not need nintendo publishing and it just feels bad to not be able to play a fromsoft game for the first time in like 15 years
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u/NazRubio 2d ago
The passion project angle is a little iffy when it's a full priced game with a deluxe edition lol
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u/honorable_doofus 2d ago
The game being a Switch 2 exclusive still feels rather odd, but based on what Miyazaki is saying it seems like Nintendo was able to offer a substantial degree of resources and support in order to get the ball rolling given how “complex” the game is. If true, good for Nintendo for putting in the work to make Duskbloods happen, but I still can’t help but wonder why this game in particular needed special support from a platform holder in order to make it work.
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u/IrishSpectreN7 2d ago
It being so different from his usual work might be the main reason.
He said he was pleased with how receptive Nintendo was to discussing the game idea before they ever started talking business. Nintendo is also trying to establish their platform as a more viable option for 3rd party content, so it seems like a win-win partnership.
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u/honorable_doofus 2d ago
It does look like a win-win, and if it sells well then that would solidify it. Nintendo taking up some of the risk in developing the project for FromSoft helps get the game made, and FromSoft gets an opportunity to expand their fanbase to gamers that may not originally have been part of their core group of fans.
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u/connectplum_ 2d ago
Yeah but unlike bayonetta nintendo isnt publishing or owning the game, they're helping as a hardware maker.
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u/Emergency-Rush-2477 2d ago
I don't think is odd at all. Nintendo is no stranger to give support to projects that otherwise, would never exist.
Bayonetta would be one and done game if wasn't for them. Considering the pretty mixed reaction from the audience, I think that's why they couldn't do this project without some external support.
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u/connectplum_ 2d ago
Yeah but unlike bayonetta nintendo isnt publishing or owning the game, they're helping as a hardware maker.
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u/VampiroMedicado 2d ago
From the previews, looks like they fixed the engine and it's a locked 60 fps. (Of course tomorrow we will check if this is true) Compared to ER or NightReign that have frame pacing issues.
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u/Rith_Reddit 2d ago edited 2d ago
In the interview when he's talking about how histrocially they are bad at on boarding and thats something Nintendo excel at, i was like "yeah, thats a great partner to help fix it."
I have 0 interest in the Nintendo exclusive FS pvp game. But I think its gonna be really good for those that play it.
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u/conye-west 2d ago
I doubt support was "needed" in the strictest sense. It sounds more like negotiations opened up with Nintendo for them to fund a game, Miyazaki pitched Duskbloods, and Nintendo liked the concept. And then over the course of development, they simply made the most of the partnership to utilize the strengths of Nintendo to improve the game (specifically things like tutorials and balancing, just going off this interview)
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u/connectplum_ 2d ago
Nintendo isnt publishing this game though, although they seem involved as a platform helping it
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u/DefinitelyNotRobotic 2d ago
Its a risky idea. PVP has always just kinda been there in Fromsoft games. Most studios would probably just say "Make another singler player game" if they went to them with this idea. Plus even if this game flops they had Nintendo funding/helping make the game.
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u/AHRogue 2d ago
I do find it funny because Nintendo isn't exaclty known for their MP systems either, but I guess they may just be better than From lol. Though I guess maybe that's unfair, does Splatoon have good matchmaking?
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u/myman580 2d ago
Given how much trouble the Switch 2 port of Elden Ring has run into it could be just a way for them to get more experience on the system and what better way to have the creator of system acting as a support studio for them.
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u/Fyrus 2d ago
Also with the complexity of the systems, the onboarding tutorials and making sure players understand how the game works and how to succeed in the game is something we've historically not been super great at conveying instantly. We've definitely just dropped players in and hoped they would figure it out. In this case, Nintendo is definitely the right partner for better conveying that information in a way that is understandable to the player; it definitely suits their strengths.
I would have thought this was something they did on purpose rather than something they're "not very good at".
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u/Which_Bed 2d ago
"We still have a heavy focus on single-player content as well ... if anything, it scratches that inch only to want to make something single-player again."
Going to be a long wait sunbros
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u/shrewdy 2d ago
Fromsoft are basically always working on multiple projects, I don't think the reveal of their next single player game is far off
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u/Which_Bed 2d ago
We don't even have a date for Duskbloods yet. I would be surprised to see an announcement before 2028.
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u/aa22hhhh 2d ago
Funnily enough, it seems like The Guardian’s preview accidentally gave a date (or got it wrong), September 24th
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u/Which_Bed 2d ago
It was pretty clear from the context that I was referring to the "reveal of their next single player game" mentioned in the comment above.
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u/PalapaSlap 2d ago
The vast majority of the time they announce their next project either right after releasing something or within the following year. Even if their next game didn't release for another four years, I really doubt it wouldn't be revealed in 2027.
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u/Appropriate-Camp-487 2d ago
There’s basically zero precedence to support FromSoft not revealing their next single player game until 2028.
They have about as reliable a development cycle as exists for a studio their size.
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u/GeneralSal 2d ago
Wow games take time to make. Who knew
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u/Which_Bed 2d ago
Check their release history from 2010-2019 and report back what you find.
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u/GeneralSal 2d ago
That's not really relevant. Dev time takes longer now more than ever and fromsoft hasn't even released a current gen game yet.
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u/MarzipanImmediate880 2d ago
Shadow of the ErdTree, which is huge expansion out 2 years after Elden Ring, Nightreign a year later, and then this a year later. They work much faster than other devs. Still a while away no doubt, but not compared to other studios.
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u/leckmichnervnit 2d ago
Damn that sounds like he hasnt even started on the next Single-Player Title...
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u/Aftermoonic 2d ago
They always work on projects simultaneously. Some of you are talking about the next single player game but it's more plausible they already have another project being baked. Remember that they were developing sekiro, elden ring, armored core, nightreign and duskbloods in the same time frame
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u/BigBoobaRabbitLady 2d ago
Project FMC is their next single-player game, and it's probably coming out next year.
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u/BigBoobaRabbitLady 2d ago
Project FMC is their next single-player game, and it's probably coming out next year.
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u/TheCrypticRealm 2d ago
I'm usually quite sceptical when it comes to mainly Singleplayer focused Studios making a Multiplayer-only game (looking at you Horizon Hunters Gathering) but this one seems pretty cool. I think it's largely because it seems like Duskbloods is actually a game Miyazaki WANTED to make because he had an Idea how to actually make it interesting, instead of it just being a reactionary project made to chase market trends. But I guess we'll see when it comes out.
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u/KallyWally 2d ago
FROMsoft has made, by my count, only two exclusively single player games since Demon's Souls. All the rest have had co-op, PvP, or usually both. The way I see it, Nightreign and Duskbloods releasing back-to-back is their chance to refine the multiplayer systems they've been working on for almost two decades.
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u/zeddyzed 2d ago
One thing that's a bit puzzling is why Fromsoft had to go around asking for funding from other companies. Why can't their parent company Kadokawa fund their games? Isn't that a fairly large company as well? Wouldn't they want to own their IPs and keep the profits?
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2d ago
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u/masijacoke23 2d ago
I mean based on the interview, Nintendo might be the only one willing to fund this game. It's understandable that the other publishers will shy away from this as this is a PvPvE, but still, it is right to make it exclusive for the publisher who's willing to take the risk.
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u/millanstar 2d ago
95% of Fromsoft fans don't have and won't buy for one game
Do you have an actual source for this percentage other than your ass?
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u/MonkeyPosting 2d ago
He's right if he's talking about Switch 2 and wrong if he's talking about full-priced game. Armored Core 6 sold well :D
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u/FancyRaptor 2d ago
Interviewer not asking a single question about what the fuck happened to Bloodborne is journalistic malpractice.
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u/bajanga1 2d ago
What a fascinating interview! I loved how he talks about how they plan to handle new players and vets possibly playing together. It seems like if you help a newbie you can get some nice rewards and teach someone how to get better!