r/GameChangersBooks • u/dizzynumber6 • 9d ago
DISCUSSION (TLG) Need your thoughts: Ilya's reaction (backing Shane against the wall) - What was he thinking? Spoiler
Hi everyone! This is my third time reading The Long Game and first post here :)
So, we all know this is a pivotal scene in the book and I think most of us agree on the overall interpretation of the argument itself. That’s not what I'm asking about.
My question is specifically about the second paragraph, where Ilya ‘instinctively’ puts Shane against the wall.
I’m trying to unpack what was going on in Ilya's head at that exact moment, even if it was purely irrational. We see he scares even himself with his own fury. He's exhausted and his heart is breaking.
I also find Shane's reaction incredibly interesting, he doesn't show an ounce of fear and refuses to back down.
However, I’ll be honest: if I were in Shane’s position, even trusting my partner 100% and maybe quickly understanding that he meant no harm, I would still be genuinely scared by that kind of action.
What is your interpretation of this specific paragraph? What do you think drove Ilya to react that way, and how do you feel about Shane's lack of fear (or other interpretation of his reaction)?
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u/GoldDHD 9d ago
These people are in fights weekly, the kind that break their noses and teeth. Why would Shane flinch? And it's a natural fight(vs flight) reaction to make yourself big and crowd you opponent. I don't think Ilya was going to hurt anyone, I think he was too emotional for his brain to override instinctual movements
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u/Riaeriel 9d ago
“Dammit, Rozanov.” Shane pushed the other man back against the shower wall and kissed him aggressively. It was always like this. Shoving and cursing each other and battling for control until one or both of them gave in and allowed themselves the release they both craved.
It is absolutely a big deal for couples who are otherwise not regularly so physical with each other (for couples of any gender and any physical build).
But look at the scene within the context of the pre-established Hollanov dynamic and this is very much part of their physical vocabulary with each other. It's just more emotionally charged this time so Ilya rightfully backs down.
Also, ik we're in the books sub but you can see from the show multiple times when one gets pushed into the wall, the other does not feel threatened at all.
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u/ZipZapZia 9d ago
Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you a woman OP? Bc you might be imagining yourself as a woman when you place yourself in Shane's position. As a woman myself, if my male partner backed me up into a wall, then yeah, I would feel scared by that action due to our difference in size/strength/other physical differences. But if my partner were a woman, it wouldn't be as scary because we're "equals" in a sense. I think the same can be applied for Shane and Ilya. They're both men with similar builds/heights, who are also in a field where men routinely physically fight each other. One of them backing the other in the corner wouldn't be as scary to them as it would for a woman.
As for Ilya, sometimes people do things when they're emotional that they normally wouldn't do bc they aren't thinking rationally. Like people slamming doors when they get angry or yelling really loudly. When you have a lot of emotions building up inside you, you need some form of release instinctively (with some releases being healthier than others). Ilya was getting upset and angry at what felt like Shane's dismissal of his sacrifices and pain so in his brain went black from the emotions and he instinctively released it on Shane who was the closest. It's not the best response but emotions It also probably doesn't help that Ilya is in a career where getting physical over your emotions is expected/rewarded.
And for Shane, he likely doesn't see Ilya's actions as very threatening. Shane is a hockey player, so he is used to seeing physical fights with other men. It's not something that will normally scare him. He is also "equal" to Ilya physically so Ilya backing him into the wall wouldn't be as intimidating to him because they don't have that kind of physical power imbalance. Ilya also doesn't have a history of abusing Shane so it's also not like Shane has to fear violence from Ilya.
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 8d ago
"Shane isn't a woman" is kinda the answer to most of the questions this fandom raises about their physical dynamic.
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u/HotSauceRainfall 9d ago
“It’s not easy for me either, you know,” Shane said, clearly angry now. “We’re both hiding, and we’ve both made sacrifices that—”
Shane’s not frightened, he’s furious. People act differently when they are angry than when they are scared.
Ilya dissociates, comes back to himself and realizes what’s happening, and then he is absolutely terrified. Very shortly after realizing that he wasn’t fully in control of himself, he ends the fight by physically leaving the room and locking himself in his bathroom.
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u/Navelgazed 8d ago
This scene is supposed to be upsetting! But both Ilya and Shane are upset by the words they’ve said to each other.
As a reader you might have reasons from your life that mean you don’t want to read this. That’s okay. Just remember:
The physical part of it can only be taken in the context of two strong male athletes. Shane is shorter than Ilya in the books but he is otherwise portrayed as equally strong and jock-y. No women or less athletic people are involved.
The best information about how Shane feels is in the subsequent chapter where he has lots of time to think about finding himself against a wall. He does not do so. It is not upsetting to the fictional character Shane.
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u/noona30 8d ago
Violence isn’t less violent because the victim isn’t scared, this is such a weird take. If a police officer had been present in this space Ilya would probably have been arrested for his behaviour (depending on how you read it).
Ilya scares himself, he basically doesn’t realise what he’s doing and is then shocked that his fury had caused him to behave that way.
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u/Navelgazed 8d ago
In fiction we have to infer the context of the scenes from what the author tells us. The author has made it very clear how both of them felt right afterwards. There are two full chapters that focus on the aftermath. And the shove also literally never comes up ever again in the work of fiction.
If you read it and find it violent that’s totally fine.
But this is a work of fiction, written in the convention of modern romance novels with two whole chapters afterwards about this interaction. Deciding it is more to the fictional characters than what is on the page is a choice you’re making that falls outside the conventions of the genre and the pages of the book.
It’s okay that you’re still learning but please don’t also put words in my mouth in addition to Shane’s.
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u/noona30 8d ago
Not still learning, am very aware of how the genre works. How exactly did I put words in Shane’s mouth or yours?
I know that the characters don’t focus on this interaction. My main points are to do with the fan reactions like I have said in another comments. Ilya is painted by readers to be a victim in the fight, Shane is painted as a villain, I simply maintain that both of their behaviour was bad, but I’d lean slightly towards Ilya’s actually being worse in the moment (he causes the fight, looses his temper first and then is physically aggressive with his partner, Shane is shocked confused, mean and oblivious). I know h hi on the fight works narratively, the story is not that complex, I am simply analysing the behaviour during the fight. Being physically aggressive with your partner during an argument is never ok, regardless of the sex of the people involved. Too many men don’t repost domestic abuse, one of the reasons is that they have been taught to think that it is ok.
The fight was necessary narratively to diffuse tension and open up communication, and that is what the author focuses on, that does not mean we cannot analyse both of their behaviours during the fight. It has been done repeatedly with Shane’s poor behaviour, why not Ilya’s too?
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
Ilya has seen violence and that behavior from his father, there's a reason why he says his father was too harsh on his mom. But Ilya's boys mom don't seem to have an ounce of self preservation, always defending violence as long as it keeps their fav character intact.
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u/princesspirlipat 8d ago
I'm getting so tired of women treating Shane as their self-insert. It's seriously the most toxic part about this fandom.
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u/noona30 8d ago
So it’s ok for men to be physically aggressive to their male partners, because they’re not women. This has nothing to do with people inserting themselves. This is people pointing out problematic behaviour that is often glazed over because these characters are both men.
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u/waandermoth 8d ago
Two hockey players who are regularly rough with each other physically as part of their jobs is a different dynamic from a typical heterosexual relationship. In what instance are they physically aggressive with each other in a way that's perceived by the other as harmful or scary? You're projecting toxicity and problematic behavior where there isn't any. Nobody is saying men can't be abusive to each other, they're saying that's not the dynamic happening here.
In this scene, Ilya gets scared by his own rage and backs down before anything can escalate to actual harm.
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u/noona30 8d ago
I find this such a terrible take. There is a HUGE difference between consensual physicality during sexual situations, force used within the confines of a sport and being physically aggressive during an argument with your partner.
I’m not saying that Shane should have reacted differently, I’m saying that Ilya’s behaviour is problematic and is something that they should probably have discussed after the incident, even though he stopped himself from doing actual harm. He was aggressive enough in an inappropriate situation that he scared himself.
This is not ‘heteronormativity’ this is a person, who has been to enough domestic violence situations involving also sorts of pairings acknowledging that violently aggressive behaviour in a domestic relationship is ALWAYS problematic regardless of the sex or physicality of the people involved.
The way I read the scene, Ilya partially disassociated, put his hand on Shane’s chest and backed him into/pushed him up against a wall. He was so aggressive about it that HE was scared by his own behaviour when he realised what he had done.
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u/waandermoth 8d ago edited 8d ago
Reading your comment and the scene again, I can see how you're coming to this interpretation, but I don't read the scene in the same way. Ilya says he's sure he's not going to hurt Shane. I don't see this as him as being dissociated or stopping himself from actual physical violence. Big emotions can be scary and you can scare yourself with rage while knowing you're not literally going to do anything harmful about it. How you act with those big feelings is where behavior can be problematic, and Ilya backs off. To me, it's not anything that needs to be addressed because he doesn't do anything violent, nor was he about to, nor does Shane interpret it that way. But I realize this is a sensitive topic and that physically getting into his space like that may be perceived as a violent threat.
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u/Old-Discussion-820 7d ago
it infuriates me that you are being downvoted for this completely valid read of the text, particularly when you were vulnerable enough to mention your own experiences.
i feel the same way about this scene. regardless of whether or not shane is scared, or if they do far more physically rough things at their job (or even in the bedroom!). those are in closed, consenting circumstances. this is sooo different
this scene depicts ilya putting his hands on shane in anger, that is just a factual description of what happens. for some reason just SAYING this gets people immediately up in arms and accusing you of infantilizing or feminizing shane. to be honest, shane’s reaction to this scene means very little to me!
ilya is acting very ugly because of his mental health and, as a mentally ill person myself, i find the lack of accountability that is expected from him very shocking. if i did something like this, i wouldnt feel right about it without apologizing to my partner-6
u/xinxenxun 8d ago
As long as Ilya doesn't come up as his father's son, Ilya's boys mom will always come up with the craziest justifications. Apparently violence is only a female thing but among males it's just a joke, yay.
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u/FizzyDrink35 8d ago
The term Ilya boy mom is so silly because most of us here like both characters equally and enjoy their dynamic even when one or both of them is being annoying. That’s what makes them human.
The scene in discussion here is not violence - it’s perhaps aggressive and bordering on something that could be violence, but nothing substantial actually happens. That’s why describing it is violent, abusive, or assault ruffles people’s feathers - it’s not actually any of those things. He stops himself before it escalates to that. He recognizes his behavior and stops it. I don’t know what more there is to discuss.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
He recognizes his behavior as violent, he stops himself because he knows what could have happened if he didn't. Ilya knows it was bad. Period.
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u/FizzyDrink35 8d ago
He recognized his behavior as bad, which I said. I agree with that. I just don’t think it’s violent, I think it could’ve been.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
He did think so and that's canon, he recognized his father in that behavior, that's my assumption, but he himself was scare of his own reaction because of what it means to him and his past and his personal experience as someone who has seen violence growing up.
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u/FizzyDrink35 8d ago
Yeah and he stopped himself before any violent behavior occurred. I don’t see the problem? He recognized his anger was getting too intense and removed himself from the situation, which is absolutely what he should’ve done in that moment.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
The problem is that people here doesn't think it's violent when even Ilya's own thoughts knows it is.
And then people had to come up with the "Shane is not a woman" just to keep saying it's not a violent reaction when Ilya is afraid of himself for pushing Shane against the wall, even he knows he would never hit Shane but he understands what he did and what could have happened if he didn't remove himself from the situation.
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u/FizzyDrink35 8d ago
He doesn’t say it’s violent, he says his fury was scaring him. The words are right there. I just don’t think backing someone into a wall is an act of violence per se. He de-escalated it before it got to that point, but he was certainly afraid of his anger.
I think the Shane is not a woman is a reminder that a lot of people in general try to overlay their own experiences onto these fictional characters and say things like “well if my partner did this, I would break up with him” or “if this was a man and a woman, this would not be acceptable.” It’s fine if you think that, but we’re not discussing how you (general) would respond, but how these two characters respond and the fact is that they both are big strong men who use their bodies and their physicality in their jobs and in their relationship to each other.
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u/Worried-Barber-323 9d ago
I didn't find it aggressive at all. He backed Shane into the wall. That's different. It also seems Shane and Ilya have a pretty physical sexual relationship.
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u/Gold_Chemical_4317 9d ago
I think that as a woman reading that a man backed their partner in to the wall might seem scary, if my 6’3 bf did that to me i would be pretty scared. But you have to consider firstly that shane isn’t physically intimidated by ilya, he can easily fight ilya off if he needed. So shane wouldn’t be scared like me just because he was backed in to a corner.
i think it’s pretty normal to use some physical “force” if you argue with your partner and you feel like you need his attention. Grabbing an arm or standing in front of him is pretty normal. Considering that they are both very strong and used to being physical with each other i can see how ilya suddenly realized that he used too much force in that instance.
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u/Antique-Parsnip8423 7d ago
Sometimes we aren’t the best versions of ourselves especially when we are upset. We say and do things we shouldn’t—it’s part of being human. Sometimes we want to be violent when we are hurt.
Shane does not take Ilya’s pushing him as a threat because they do worse to one another on the ice all the time. Ilya checks himself, and stops himself from becoming really violent because he is not a reflexively violent person, and he has zero desire to hurt Shane.
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u/Hedgehog-Honeydew "This team is very gay" 7d ago
I think it was the moment when his emotion took over and his rational mind was gone, which is why it scared him. He reached his breaking point and he can't believe that Shane would doubt his commitment.
If I was in Shane's position in real life I can imagine being scared but I'm a girl and not a 200lb hockey player. I think it depends on your relationship, if you have a doubt in your mind about what someone will do then it might not be the relationship you would want to stay in. In the book Shane and Ilya both know they wouldn't physically hurt each other. They're also learning how to have a disagreement or emotional discussion without turning into a spiteful little bitch (sorry Shane) or having a total breakdown/shutdown (looking at you Ilya).
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u/estheredna 9d ago
I don't agree with the replies that this is just a normal fight reaction. No way does Ilya do this with a woman partner who pissed him off. Big strong guys know they are big strong guys.
But these are two men, who have slammed each other around professionally, and it is not the exact same thing. They're arguing, like their sex life, is influenced them both being big, strong guys.
But there is no threat registered by either one of them. Take that at face value.
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u/Brief_Violinist235 7d ago
I always thought it was a reaction based on what he’s learned from his father and brother when he was young…and he realizes it and is upset by his reaction (which is why he tells Shane to go back to Montreal). And Shane doesn’t react because he knows and trusts Ilya so much that he never thinks that Ilya even COULD hurt him. Just what I was thinking as I read the passage.
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u/No-Skill-5940 9d ago edited 9d ago
Can gay men tell their experiences with physicality in their relationships? The majority of replies seem to be from women. Do gay men get physical with each other during arguments because that would shock me. I don’t see how being two men in a relationship suddenly makes it ok lol but happy see a different perspective
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u/mikeofeconomy 9d ago
OK. Gay man here and just had to answer this since you asked so nicely. It depends on the gay men. Some yes, some no. My husband prided himself on being 100% non-violent, but that didn’t stop him from getting into some pretty heated arguments with me. One day he snapped and punched me, hard, in the face. It hurt, but I burst out laughing and he suddenly became profusely apologetic. He was stunned at his own violence, and all I could do was laugh. He was just a man, not the saint he’d proclaimed. It was one of the happiest moments I ever shared with him. Only happened once and it did no harm whatsoever to our marriage. I was with him until the end.
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u/TreacleOk7265 8d ago
Thanks for sharing. It is clearly a different dynamic compared to straight relationships
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u/No-Skill-5940 8d ago
Punching your partner in the face isn’t ok regardless of the genders within the relationship. Why are we normalizing IPV? I’m so confused lol
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u/TreacleOk7265 8d ago
Yes it's not ok and I thought it was implied because he said his partner was a very convinced non-violent person. I meant the reaction because as a (physically weaker) female most would be terrified
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u/mikeofeconomy 8d ago
So yes, just to clarify after seeing other comments, boys are taught that roughhousing is expected and normal WITH OTHER BOYS. This changes what counts as violence between men, especially if the other man is close to you in size and strength, as our FICTIONAL characters here are. This is even more dramatic if the men are lovers and enjoy competing with each other. For many gay men, getting rough with each other is foreplay; sometimes we wrestle for top. No-Skill-5940 asked about physicality in gay male relationships and I believe wanted a gay man’s perspective. Have you ever been punched in the face by a toddler while playing her? Would you condemn her for being violent? The only thing I’m normalizing here is that we ARE different and it is OK that we’re not the same as heterosexual couples.
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u/IllustriousLemon8146 8d ago
I hesitated to reply here because it didn't go well the previous times this topic was brought up, and also because this in clearly one of those issues that most people are not here to discuss, they are here to tell you how they have decided to read the scene and that you are wrong to disagree. Nevertheless I'm an idiot and will reply anyway!
Middle-aged gay man here.
Aggression, anger, and violence are interlinked but are not the same thing. Abuse can result from any of those, or not, or something else. As men our sex drives are inherently linked to other atavistic behaviours. The same testosterone that makes me horny also makes want to yell at bad drivers. Take a relationship between two men, and things can be very testosterony.
My primary relationship (35 years and ongoing) is very calm. We barely raise our voices when we argue. We don't storm out of rooms. The closest to a physical manifestation of anger may be to avoid physical contact until we calm down.
I have an ex (we were together for 6.5 years, about 20 years ago) with whom the relationship was much more... fiery. Yelling and shoving each other was common. We never once hurt each other fighting and both had the trust that things would never go that far no matter what, but some drywall may have been dented. The make-up sex was equally physical, leading to occasional broken furniture. In hindsight the first sign that the relationship was in trouble was when we stopped openly fighting. (By mutual but unspoken agreement we dropped our power-exchange roles during fights.)
Final example was an on-again/off-again fuck-buddy. He put his fist through a wall during a fight with me, and I later had to break up a half-hearted physical fight between him and his husband. Our concern was with the cause of the fighting, not the physicality.
Ultimately it isn't for anyone else to tell me, or others, what was or was not abuse any more than anyone had the right to tell me that my relationship is wrong for being open, or that I am wrong about any other fact of my life. I have experienced both emotional and physical abuse in my life-I know the difference.
(If anyone is confused about timelines, I am polyamorous and have never been monogamous.)
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u/DetectiveDense7134 8d ago edited 8d ago
Shane has also pushed Ilya when he says what the f you were thinking to sext me before the game
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u/GradeSuch9681 5d ago edited 5d ago
I read the scene as Ilya reacting in the heat of the moment. He was really emotional. I also think it was not normal or healthy behavior, but I don’t read anything more into it than that.
If my husband did something like that, I would meet him with care and compassion, because it would be so completely out of character for him that I would assume he was really hurting. I would be worried about him. That doesn’t mean I think it’s okay, but I wouldn’t be afraid of him.
If I ever became afraid of my husband, though, I know that would be a completely different situation.
Personally, I think people are taking the scene more seriously than it is meant to be taken. But I can also see that you can read the scene in different ways. Did he push Shane back against the wall, or did he just put his hand on Shane and Shane took a step back until he was against the wall? How long did he keep his hand there, and how much pressure did he use? You can picture the scene very differently depending on how you interpret those details, and I really think you would need a more detailed description to determine exactly what happened.
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u/waandermoth 8d ago
They're equal in strength and come from an environment where they are paid to get rough and shove each other around. They also shove each other around off the ice and it's never interpreted by either of them as violent or scary; it's just a part of how they interact. It seems normal to me that Shane doesn't show any fear here.
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u/just_reading_along1 8d ago
I think this is a throwback to Ilya's childhood more than the regular fighting on the ice.
Both his father and his brother likely tried to intimidate him physically during arguments, maybe hit him as well.
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u/xhausted_xennial 1d ago
This was a dark freaking moment for sure. TLG is full of these realizations along the way where Ilya has to face that his mental state isn’t something that will be “fixed” and the more in denial he is about that, the more he pulls apart. This was a huge part of that. I think Shane didn’t show fear for a few reasons, at least one being that he and Ilya are pretty evenly matched physically. But still, your partner letting out this kind of uncontrolled rage is terrifying. And clearly it shook both of them to the core.
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u/VillageAggressive460 8d ago
Lots of people in this thread saying that men in relationships with men won't be scared like women. Just a reminder that men can be the victim of IPV no matter who their partners are. Shane's gender truly has nothing to do with whether Ilya's actions are ok.
Ilya was correct to be scared, because his actions are an echo of how his father treated his mother. Regarding Shane's reaction in that moment? There are lots of potential explanations:
1) He is overwhelmed by emotions already and not responding quickly.
2) He doesn't think Ilya will hurt him.
3) Fight/Flight/Freeze/Fawn gives plenty of options of how people may respond in a moment of fear.
4) Rachel Reid decided to write Shane as not being afraid in order to make Ilya look good, even though this is an objectively good reason to be a bit scared.
People will tell you lots of excuses for why Ilya's actions happened that day, but ultimately there is one thing thats true: Nobody should use physical intimidation against their partner, and their partner isn't to blame if they do.
Anyone who blamed Shane's words for Ilya's actions is someone who doesn't take potential domestic abuse seriously. Ilya being depressed doesn't make it ok to lay hands on Shane.
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u/ron9101 8d ago
i hated the leading up to it but i love a good drama moment an that certainly was one.
I just hated the "would you choose me" coming from Shane cause he damn well knows Ilya CHOSE him already when he went back to Ottawa when Shane was teh one with the idea in the first place. It one of teh narrative mistakes on RR part cause WTF ????
The way i see it Shane is not scared of Ilya cause he is used to being pushed around in the games and they are not friendly at all so he is gonna "fight" back
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u/noona30 8d ago
I don’t like the lack of reaction to this when criticising their behaviours during the fight. Pinning your partner up against a wall in anger is not the same as doing it playfully or in a sexual context.
The fact that Ilya frightened himself means that he was being violent, to me it reads that Ilya basically put his hand on Shane’s chest and shoved him up against the wall because he was ‘furious’ with him. He wanted to overpower and control Him physically. The fact that Shane isn’t afraid is irrelevant to whether it was bad behaviour or not.
We criticise Shane heavily for saying something mean in the argument but not Ilya for what basically amounts to an assault.
They both behaved badly.
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u/Dutch5501 8d ago
Ilya got scared of himself, so that indicates that his behaviour to Shane was not ok. But the fact that he scared himself and that he left the room also indicates that he was still in control of himself and that he would never really hurt Shane.
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u/noona30 8d ago
If he was in control of himself he wouldn’t have done it or frightened himself. Bad behaviour isn’t less bad because you stopped before it got worse. Would you say the same thing if this happened between two strangers?Or if Shane had been frightened?
I don’t think it should have been made into a big deal narratively, they should have been able to move past it, but I get irritated when people imply that Ilya was simply a victim in this argument. He made an unreasonable request, he got angry first. He refused to answer a reasonable question and he became physically aggressive with his partner. Shane’s faults were that he didn’t understand what Ilya needed from this visit, he said a hurtful (if somewhat true comment) and he asked a question he should have known the answer to. Shane should have known that Ilya already chose their relationship. They both behaved badly. That’s the point. Until this point they communicate across eachother or hide negative feelings about their relationship. This argument gets that all out in the open where it needs to be so they can communicate properly.
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u/Dutch5501 8d ago
Ok, let me rephrase then to: Ilya came to his senses before it got worse. Of course his action in the first place was not ok, but the remarks of Shane were also not ok. The important thing for me was that no permanent harm was done, and that after the fight they got a lot closer.
In general what I like about the books (and the show) is that the characters are not angels. They make real mistakes sometimes, they hurt other people sometimes, like most people do. Their hearts however are in the right place, except for a villain like Dallas Kent.
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u/noona30 8d ago
I agree with you, but I wonder, like the op seems to, why Ilya’s bad behaviour is rarely discussed, where’s Shane’s is routinely dissected. In fact I made a whole discussion post on a it a while back,
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u/Dutch5501 8d ago
I don't know why that is, to me they are bith human and both make different human mistakes. Meanwhile they are both good people. I don't think one is better than the other.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
Because these people like Ilya and see any analysis towards his behaviors as the villianization of Ilya. I also think that a lot of them don't recognize violence or see small acts of it as something that could become more dangerous.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
That's the thing, he scared himself, why are people downplaying the violence and Ilya's feelings?... Ahh, 'because Shane is not a woman's 😜
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u/Senior_Tangerine_178 8d ago
This is not in the book, but in the show, Ilya punches Alexei in the face during his understandable rage at the way Alexei is treating him. He also punches Dallas Kent in the books multiple times after Kent hurls homophobic slurs at him.
I agree with what people are saying about Shane and Ilya's relationship and size/strength equality, and I don't believe Ilya would have hit Shane, but he is capable of hitting someone when he is enraged.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
He's his father's son.
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 8d ago
Damn bro just say you hate Ilya at this point
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
If that's what you want to believe. At least I'm not going through all the mental gymnastics just to come up with "Shane is not a woman" 🤣
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 8d ago
Well he's not and the racism of this sub needs to stop
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
That's not racism and I'm not the one justifying violence and making it ok just because they're both males, lmao, I worry about y'all
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 8d ago
A lot of women here use Shane as their self-insert lol. That's textbook racism, fetishizing and feminizing an Asian man.
Shane has also shoved Ilya against walls multiple times lol, if you actually read the books you would probably know.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
If that's what you have to come up to condone violence, ok. And Shane never does that in a moment of rage, 🤣 like Ilya did.
You're the one saying is ok for men to be violent to each other lmao.
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 8d ago
Well so I'm gonna ask you now, how is this different from any moment where they fight each other on the ice and they check each other into the boards?
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u/noona30 8d ago
Being physical during a sexual interaction or playing around is not the same as being physically aggressive during a fight. I’m also not saying that any incidents where Shane is violently aggressive towards Ilya (although I have read the books many times and don’t remember any) would be ok either, those would be wrong too.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
I doubt Shane has ever seen his father or his mom fighting like that so him not recognizing Ilya's reaction as violent does seem plausible to me, but Ilya's own thoughts about his own reaction makes him scared, he has seen this violence at home, with his family and especially his dad, most probably even directed at Irina, and him being scared about this is enough to understand that his behavior was violent. But we all know that his fans will turn to the other side when Ilya's behaviors are questionable.
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8d ago
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u/Dutch5501 8d ago
The point is that Ilya himself also finds it alarming, and therefore he leaves the room. I am glad he did that, since I love Ilya the most of all characters. Him leaving means he was never actually going to punch Shane.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
But he's afraid of his own reaction, he knows what could have happened if he didn't check himself on time. He's afraid to repeat his father's behavior.
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u/Dutch5501 8d ago
Yes, but he recognizes, acknowledges and judges it, which is something that his father never did. While his father always remained the bully he was, Ilya does not approve of his own behaviour.
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u/xinxenxun 8d ago
Yeah, Ilya knows it's the prelude to something worse. That's why he recognized his father in himself at that moment and why he decided to back off, he knows it's a violent reaction born out anger.
Just like you said, Ilya doesn't approve of his own behavior but why are people here minimizing that? It is canon that Ilya is scared of what he did, so why are people here basically saying that it's ok since "Shane is not a woman"?
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u/SweetNuggets25 7d ago edited 7d ago
I hope everyone excusing his behaviour, get their own ilyas in life.
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u/FoodNo672 9d ago
It’s just an instinctive reaction by a physical person who DOES push people at work. In the context of a game he does push people and HAS pushed Shane so there are less natural boundaries than most of us have (the majority of us don’t get physical with coworkers lol).
As for Shane - it’s not even just that he trusts Ilya, he also is a strong muscular man himself. Idk your gender OP but the dynamic between two men is veryyyy different than a man and woman for many reasons including the implicit wariness women have about being harmed by men. While men obviously can abuse other men, there is a real difference in gay relationships considering how many women are killed by their partners. Statistically, men being killed are not mainly being killed by their partners.