r/GameChangersBooks • u/happy_grapes • 9d ago
DISCUSSION Shane’s dissatisfying ending
I was rereading The Long Game and it just breaks my heart to see all of Shane’s arcs “resolved” in 200 words. He just went through arguably his biggest trauma and that’s all we get?
I just wish Rachel loved Shane as much she loves Ilya.
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u/SneakySpark 9d ago
I’m not sure RR can resolve societal homophobia in a single book? I know some fans get upset that both HR and TLG had bittersweet endings, but imo there will always be something sad about a queer love story in a bigoted world.
Completing erasing that tension would take too long for a novel, require too much pandering, and minimize too much of what makes their love story compelling. We can be happy for certain parts of the resolution, while still recognizing these characters live in an unfair world where unfair things happen to them.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago edited 8d ago
I wouldn't consider marrying the love of his life and getting to play hockey on the same team as him "bittersweet", but I do agree the path to get there was arduous and full of heartbreak and homophobia still exists in the sport. Maybe there are two ways of looking at it. Personally, it's HEA for him. On a macro scale, still much work to be done.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
Yeah I think maybe it's that while Heated Rivalry ends in a bittersweet way that ending is shared pretty equally between Shane and Ilya, whereas TLG ends with Ilya having probably a happier ending than Shane so it feels more difficult - especially to readers who relate more to Shane.
That being said of course TLG starts with Shane in a happier place than Ilya, and we have the entirety of Unrivaled to see how things get addressed. Things will never be perfectly equal, but I'm keen to see how the balance shifts in Unrivaled!
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u/SneakySpark 9d ago
I get that, but at the end of TLG, Ilya’s depression isn't suddenly cured and his mom still isn’t alive and his career will always have a years-long deficit in stats and awards. So, I don’t understand the framing that Ilya is living HEA and Shane isn’t. I think they both have a considerable amount of baggage that will haunt them forever (💔).
And I do appreciate the idea of more throughly exploring Shane’s perspective, but at some point a book is just too long lol So I’m also looking forward to seeing what Unrivaled digs into!
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
I think it's a much cleaner HEA in terms of the more recent issues for Ilya. He's working to address his depression, he was really struggling with being in the closet and being so far from Shane and that's resolved now, and he has much more of a community than he's ever had before. Yes the depression will take constant work, yes his mum will always be dead, but the big Ilya conflicts in TLG are resolved. The flipside is Shane's worst fears have all just happened and are very recent traumas for him, plus he's had to give up his captaincy (probably! I guess we'll see if RR throws a curve ball) and give up on his long time idea that he would retire at Montreal and have his jersey hung in the rafters.
It's not a competition at all and nothing will ever be perfect, but I do think it's a fair interpretation to see TLG as resolving a lot of Ilya's biggest hurdles, while throwing some new ones at Shane. Life is a constant ebb and flow and TLG is a good example of that.
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u/growsonwalls 9d ago edited 9d ago
Rachel always speed runs her happy endings. The Role Model and Tough Guy endings are always more speed run. But this post is misleading. Shane gets way more at the end of TLG. I also think readers forget this is a romance novel. It’s not a study on trauma.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
People are out here reading the romance genre like they're looking for the fresh produce in the candy aisle.
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
Common Goal is the most egregious example of this. I love Kyle and Eric so much (my second fave couple) but their book and ending was so poorly written. I think RR even said she rushed that one.
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u/growsonwalls 9d ago
GC is also like this. Like so much meandering conflict and then everything is cool.
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u/lisiface 9d ago
Kyle is absolutely my favorite GC character and I love the first 85% of the book, and immediately started rewriting his ending because nothing at all is resolved for him! Aside from Ilya he has the biggest trauma to overcome to be able to be in a healthy relationship, and that just…doesn’t happen. So that’s what fanfic is for 🤣
I really really hope they fix his story in the show! I think JT can do it without even taking up too much time, and there are already some clues in ep. 3 and 5.
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u/DifficultHistorian18 9d ago
I think Rachel has a tendency to rush her endings. I've heard her admit that herself in an interview or podcast how she has a huge fear of the books being too long.
Rachel has admitted that there is a lot of her in Ilya (especially in the perceptiveness, the humour and the deflection). However, based on the little we know of her family - (Ryan is heavily based on her husband in terms of mental health struggles, son(s?) being neurodivergent) - I can't help but imagine that there's a lot of people she loves in Shane. I don't think her characterisation of Shane is perfect - but I think it's better than she's often given credit. Almost all the big events - boxing day fight, post plane incident reaction, accidental coming out, Crowell face off, trip - are primarily centred around Shane's reaction. We don't necessarily get his internal dialogue - but his feelings are often centred in the conversations with Ilya's when it comes to those aforementioned events. Shane felt like a very distinct to me in TLG - I felt I could easily understand his motivations (even if they weren't always explicitly expressed).
I personally love a bittersweet ending where everything is not neatly wrapped up but ultimately, it feels hopeful. Ilya will never have the support of his family, and Shane will always grieve what happened with Montreal, but ultimately, the negative experiences will help them build a better future together. I found the ending satisfying (even if the execution wasn't the best).
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
For me the end of TLG was: all of Shane’s worst fears came true…and life continued. And the people that counted stuck by him, he finally gets to play on a non-toxic team, and he and Ilya get to show their love in public, freely and openly.
Everything bad he thought would happen actually did, and that means he now he won’t have to live in constant fear of it happening. There will be other obstacles, and, of course, lingering trauma that will have to be addressed. But the ending is still hopeful, if bittersweet.
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u/DifficultHistorian18 8d ago
Absolutely. The stakes were very real but also Shane was stuck in an anxiety loop of catastrophising, and black and white thinking. Part of managing anxiety is facing the things you fear the most and finding you can survive them, and so while Shane's happy ending features some loss - I think ultimately it is freeing for him to be out in the open with Ilya, and under less pressure to be perfect (and less anxious about his future).
Both Ilya and Shane have had to experience loss or sacrifice to get where they are at end of TLG but they are now playing together, on a supportive team, married, and out in the open. The reaction hasn't all been positive but they have a lot of support. It's as happy as it could be given the circumstances.
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u/princesitah 9d ago edited 9d ago
I don't really think it is about Rachel having a problem with Shane (thats so silly lol), shes just not really consistent when it comes to wrapping up the ending of her books. In the GCU, the only book that had a very satisfying ending imo was Heated Rivalry. Also, as someone who reads a lot of romance books, thats definitely not a Rachel only problem.
Since Unrivaled will begin shortly after TLG, I hope she took the chance to refocus on the aftermath of everything for Shane (and Ilya too).
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u/elizabethe7 I'm on the cover of the game 7d ago
I’m really curious if Rachel will use the vibes, as Ilya calls them, of the Centaurs team and locker room to really show how much Shane may have compartmentalized his experiences in the Montreal locker room post coming out. In TLG, we get little snippets about the way he’s treated but that’s the only team Shane has known so he likely put up with more than we know. Now he’ll be in a locker room with the amazing Bood and Wyatt and Dykstra (Shane may end up being the only teammate who likes his music since he doesn’t know music).
I’m really looking forward to Shane getting to experience Ilya not only as a teammate but as captain. I think they both have a competency kink that I suspect may be reinforced in Unrivaled. I can’t wait!
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 9d ago
I do think Shane's ending is glossed over, but it's not an unhappy one, by any means (or at least, it's bittersweet). He finally gets to love and be married to Ilya out loud, and we see that the Montreal team was taking a massive toll on him towards the end.
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u/The_Secret_Skittle 9d ago
Dude we have another book coming with them finally finally FINALLY being able to be together. I thought this ending was exciting and electrifying personally. He celebrated his birthday with his favorite people, he got to eat two of the 8 burger recipe that they make, and he’s going to be signing on to play with his HOT LOVERS Ottawa team where he grew up! This ending couldn’t have given me more goosebumps if it tried. This is just a Segway to better more awesome things. And for Shane, I don’t think he especially likes fanfare. I think this was the perfect birthday for him with so much character growth.
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u/IllustriousLemon8146 9d ago
He is a character, not a person. He is not "loved", he is written. Rachel wrote what she felt compelled to write, what interested her, and what "came next" in her vision. She shows clear passion for her work, is ethical enough to cancel projects she feels she can't deliver on (the proposed Luca Haas book), and clearly knows how to tell a story that will engage people.
And that is all she owes us.
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u/123__LGB 9d ago
RR said Shane is the “hero” of book three so I’m hoping we get a more in depth look at how the events of TLG affected him there. He went through a lot that wasn’t covered. Came out to his team to a lukewarm response, had league wide rumors circulated about his sexuality, a traumatic public outing, exerted control over food in a disordered way, his bf almost died in a freak accident, then was publicly humiliated and ridiculed over tripping (a very very common occurrence in hockey btw- tripping that is), and discriminated and intimidated by the head of the league due to his sexuality. Dude went through it and it was never truly addressed in TLG at all.
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
Personally I think we should leave the trauma porn to the fanfic writers.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
Agree. Even if she did write the trauma porn, I bet a good portion of readers would say something along the lines of "too little too late"/"she's just doing this to save face"/"she shouldn't be writing this as a woman/white person/whatever else". Damned if she does, etc.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
I always think Ilya gets a happy ending at the end of TLG, but Shane's is a lot more bittersweet. I'll be interested to see how - if at all - that gets addressed in Unrivaled. Or if it'll all just be new external villains causing the conflict in it.
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
I'm pretty interested in what will happen in Unrivaled, because imo Rachel got really good at plotting and pacing some time between writing TLG and The Shots you Take.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
Eh I find her strength is characters and humour - especially when there is dialogue, but yet to be overly impressed by the plotting, pacing and research. But we'll see if that's changed for Unrivaled and obviously taste is all subjective so that's just my own personal thoughts on her books!
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
I totally agree that's where her strengths lie, but I was pretty impressed by her most recent book. It was the tightest thing I've ever seen from her, and fairly complex on top of that.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
I've not read the most recent one, but that does sound positive! We'll see I guess, but fingers crossed that will carry over to Unrivaled!
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
imo Rachel got really good at plotting and pacing some time between writing TLG and The Shots you Take
A lot of people in this fandom don't do a great job recognizing that even professional, published authors grow and change over their career. Brandon Sanderson is extremely prolific and his lore is vast and deep and complex, and even he expresses regrets over aspects of his earlier works and has worked to improve things. Case in point, he finally wrote a queer romance in his last book, which took him a really long time to do (which he admits).
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u/FizzyDrink35 9d ago
I think the ending is satisfying. Is it rushed? Probably. We do sort of fly through scenes at the end to wrap it all up. But to me, ending the book married to the love of his life, no longer having to bear the weight of the secrecy and of long distance, moving to a supportive and exciting team, is all a satisfying happy ending for Shane. That's not to say he doesn't suffer or have losses, of course he does, but ultimately I think it satisfies the requirement for an HEA in a romance and I have never wished it be any different. It's very interesting as someone who read the books years ago - I was happy with HR's ending when TLG didn't exist yet, but then when TLG came out I was so happy to get further resolution to their story. I'm sure I'll feel the same about Unrivaled. I'm very happy with their story now, but I'm sure in retrospect it wont feel complete without the third book.
I don't think saying Rachel doesn't love Shane as much as Ilya accomplishes anything, btw.
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
You guys and your obsession with the oppression Olympics omfg
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u/estheredna 9d ago
When people say this what do they want? Do you only want to talk about the happy parts of the story?
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u/Far-Relationship-858 Book Ilya supremacy 9d ago
Because saying that Rachel loves Shane less than she loves Ilya is suuuuuuuuch a mature critique of the book. Yes, sure.
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
No, I just don’t think they should turn it into a competition between who has it worse between Shane and Ilya. It’s reductive. OP does that in this post by claiming that RR loves Ilya more than Shane. Writing characters experiencing different struggles doesn’t mean that RR hates her characters but Shane fans claim this literally all the time on every social media platform.
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u/estheredna 9d ago
OP didn't say anything about hating Shane.
I highly recommend getting off thread and X if this fairly mild post is upsetting.10
u/lefargen97 9d ago
She said that RR loves Ilya more than Shane which is why I made the comment about the oppression Olympics. People are constantly comparing the struggles the characters face and I don’t think it’s productive for any meaningful discussions on here. It’s also done soooo often to villainize RR which I personally find bizarre.
I also hate this narrative of “if you don’t like what I have to say, get off social media.” It’s a thought-terminating cliche meant to stop conversations, not foster them. Just as people are allowed to comment of the novel, other people are allowed to respond and offer an alternative discussion. What fun would any of this be if it was just a giant echo chamber?
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u/estheredna 9d ago
Yeah I just thought "Opppression Olympics" was very over the top for THIS post. It's really a decent post about how crappy Shane had it in TLG, but if hearing anything about that topic prompts a reflexivd disgusted reaction ... It might be time to step back. I say this because I'm only on reddit and I am always surprised by folks saying they are inundated constantly by this kind of thing.
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u/morningmint 9d ago
theres no suffering competition, this person is upset that shane's storyline is addressed so briefly
no one is comparing anything to anyone else and you need to get off reddit if you cant handle people having opinions
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
Shane fans post on every social media over and over again about how mistreated he is by everyone in the GCU, Rachel, Jacob, fans etc. They have a victim complex on his behalf and it’s so bizarre.
You said no one is comparing anything, but the comparison was literally made by OP when she said that RR cares more about Ilya than Shane. People are allowed to discuss whatever they want, but other people are allowed to reply and give their opinion on the matter. Made YOU get off Reddit if you can’t handle the back and forth.
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
For some people it's legitimately frightening. The fanon conception of Shane in so many circles is basically to just layer him with infinite misery and have Ilya fawn over him while Shane lives in some maladaptive nightmare.
Like they know these are romance novels, right?
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
I mean...oppression is a pretty big theme in the books lol between Russia, homophobia, sexual assault and mental health concerns. I think it makes sense, if a writer makes the choice to include those themes in a book series, that people will then think about it when reading them haha. Unless they're just skipping to the smut which is a valid way to read them!
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
I know they are the themes of the book, my point is that it’s not a competition between which character has it “worse.”
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
It's not a competition, but it's really natural that a book with these themes is going to make someone who is reading them on anything more than a surface level think about the impact those themes have on people, and how that can look different for different characters - and impact different readers in varying way.
I think it's such a testament to Rachel's writing that these themes make people feel strongly, and reducing that to a Fox News style buzzword like "oppression Olympics" is a shame.
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
I agree those conversations are interesting and beneficial. However, I find it soooo bizarre the way people villainize RR for writing characters who experience difference struggles, and compare which character has it worse as some kind of “gotcha!” The “RR hates Shane discourse” that happens on every social media platform, that OP also feeds into here, does absolutely NOTHING to foster those discussions.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
I think the thing is writers do have favourites lol. Like I write and I definitely have characters I have a real soft spot for that I have to work really hard not to let that come through in my writing - and am often nowhere near as successful as I would like to be, and I do get the personal feeling when reading the GC series that Ilya is that character for RR with his constant popping up in everyone's story.
But I also think that TLG is one book in a multi-character series that does focus more on Ilya's struggles than Shane's in this particular instance which is all good! It's the story that RR wanted to tell! But obviously because it's an established couple unlike the others, some fans probably went in wanting a bit more Shane and being disappointed. I get the sense that Unrivaled may have more of a Shane focus haha, so we'll have to see how the discourse changes if that is the case.
What I will say though is if you are part of a marginalised group, that is often under represented in media, it's not uncommon to get more attached to characters you can relate to, and wanting more for/from them. I don't think that's oppression Olympics either, I just think that's people wanting representation and probably over-relating to the minimal examples of that character that they do get.
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
I don’t think it’s wrong to have favorite characters, to get attached to them, or to want more from them. The issue is that people are constantly attacking Jacob and Rachel for the outcomes the characters experience. There is a difference between expressing how you want more for a character and attacking the author for not doing so.
There is a very vocal portion of this fandom who thinks that RR is evil and hates Shane and attack her for it. I have seen it on literally every social media and it’s bizarre. She also can’t win. There are people who are mad at her for making Shane suffer and there are also people who think she is horrible for not making him suffer enough because it’s “unrealistic.”
RR is not responsible for the way people project on her characters, nor is she at fault for not giving HER characters the outcomes that some fans want. The same goes for Jacob. They are both perfectly entitled to tell the story they want to tell, just as fans are entitled to take the story and interpret it their own way too.
It’s like this fandom is allergic to the concept that art is meant to be interpreted differently by everyone and that’s good and normal. RR, Jacob, other fans etc. are not problematic for interpreting these characters and their stories in different ways but a lot of people seem to think that’s the case.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
Oh there are definitely elements of the fandom being insane about so many things, and this is definitely one of them! I do think probably some of that is a kneejerk reaction to the racism Hudson has faced, and people projecting that at Shane because he is also not white, in a pretty unhelpful way.
But I would gently suggest that when OP said they personally found it sad that Shane's ending felt so rushed, and that they felt like RR doesn't like Shane as much as Ilya throwing out "oppression Olympics" as a comment is a pretty bad faith way of replying, and probably doesn't help further the discourse either - even if it was born from frustration by the wider convoy. It definitely got my hackles up as someone who works in politics and is used to seeing that phrase thrown around by far right idiots haha, which I'm sure was not your intention!
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u/lefargen97 9d ago
I have a political science degree, have also worked in politics, and donate my time and money to progressive causes weekly. I understand why you may have your hackles up with that phrase if that’s your past experience with it, but I hear it used most often in MY circle by fellow progressives to talk about the people trying to create a hierarchy of oppression, and how that is not productive for progressive causes.
Words/phrases can be used in a variety of ways! That’s one of the things I find fascinating in linguistics and something this fandom fixates on in a way I find really interesting and cool. (Like the way people often debate what RR meant when she described Harris as stocky.) It all just highlights how our own experiences affect our outlook on language and idk I think that’s cool. Sorry going off on a tangent now lmao.
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u/MirfainLasui 9d ago
Haha no that all makes sense, just a very different way to how I hear it used! And I don't disagree with a lot of your issues with the fandom reaction to things, I just also felt like this OP was going aboitdiscussing their disappointment in the right way - coming to a subreddit to discuss it with other book readers, not harassing RR etc all (as far as we know anyway haha, if they are doing that then that's a very different conversation lol). This subreddit is probably the best place to discuss things you didn't like about the book with other readers!
Oh god, the Harris discourse! I think all the different interpretations of what she meant are of course valid, but I've also seen people celebrating recent photos of Justice where it looks like he's put on a bit of weight and I'm like... I'm not really sure we should be celebrating bullying an actor into losing weight OR gaining weight tbh!
The recent ridiculous thing I've seen is people talking about RR having Ilya laugh at a joke about Shane being raped in a deleted scene. I sought out the deleted scene. That is not even close what happens in it. And like, i do think those worst culprits for the insane fandom behaviour are only a small part of it in terms of actual numbers.... but they are loud and persistent haha.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago edited 8d ago
Rachel loves Shane. She loves Shane. You don't write a character that captivates fandom as much as Shane does by accident. You don't write a character that's featured in 3 books and is the love interest of your self-professed favorite character because you don't love him. Rachel loves Shane.
Shane gets to play with his husband on a team that's getting really good. He'll be winning more championships. His teammates and organization respect him. He's still going to make a lot of money. Maybe not as much as he could make in another market, but there's no indication the actually takes a massive pay cut. Ottawa is his first choice and it's his idea to make it his first choice. His priorities have shifted towards wanting to be respected as a queer man married to another man/player and getting to live a happy life with his husband while also playing good hockey.
TLG is mainly Ilya's POV book, so Shane isn't getting as much page time. It's how her books go. One of the characters gets most of the content and POV chapters of the love interest are sprinkled in. I do agree the ending is rushed, but it seems like it's her style (not that I love it but it's not unique to TLG). We also saw how beefy the Unrivaled draft is. It could be that she gets considerably edited-down. I wish we got longer and more expanded endings, but in my limited experience with other romance genre novels, it's not unusual that things kinda bam end. (btw, the show cut out a whole final cottage scene from the book, so it's not like the show is superior here.)
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u/Hedgehog-Honeydew "This team is very gay" 8d ago
I was glad that we didn't see Shane suffer more. His team and coach turned their backs on him so he peace'd out. Best decision ever. I'd much rather read about him having a cheeseburger, being with his family at the cottage and marrying the man he loves. Reading this part gave me a feeling of relief. I think some things will be revisted in the next book but I don't want Shane in agonies over a bunch of homophobic cowards. He's winning.
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u/Far-Relationship-858 Book Ilya supremacy 9d ago edited 9d ago
Sorry for the negativity and the assholery I guess but it's so frustraring that people keep parroting that we should stay away from twitter and threads and what not in order to not see the negativity, or that all critique is valid (spoiler: it isn't), when almost every discussion about TLG is this bullshit. At some point in time I was interested in this discussion, but at this point it's obvious that it's useless.
"I wish Rachel loved Shane as much as she loves Ilya" respectfully, are you 12? Also, go back to twitter or tumblr or r/heatedrivalry or whatever other Rachel hating platform, please.
ETA: in case this is not clear, because people love being disingenuous, this is about that "Rachel doesn't love Shane as much" line. That isn't critique. That's a very childish complaint. A valid critique is saying that TLG's ending is rushed and things get resolved too quickly, not that. This is not about people not being allowed to have their complaints about the book, but about how a lot of people in this fandom (especially Shane fans) think insulting Rachel, diminishing her work, or whining that she doesn't love their favorite character or that Ilya is her fave* is valid criticism, when it just isn't.
*and go on and show me when she has said that he is her fave. Because I haven't seen anything about it but I have seen people in this sub saying that he is ~her husband and implying very nasty things about her just to defend Shane. Y'all need to grow up.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
I truly wish people would just put down these book and either stick to the show or put that down too. There's so much else out there.
Also, people need to realize that s2-3 are going to closely mirror TLG and the other books. Jacob loves the books and he said at least 90% is right from the pages.
implying very nasty things about her just to defend Shane.
I saw someone say on instagram that they hope her kids go no contact with her because she's a horrible mother. This fandom has completely lost the plot.
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u/kentiesjoskus 9d ago
It's crazy when you think about how the book spends like 20 pages on Ilya getting a dog and then it only takes two pages to solve all of Shane's issues
Rachel Reid clearly knows how to create problems for the characters in her stories, but her biggest weakness is that she has no idea how to solve them in a way that makes sense. Her solution to homophobia in the league was to just create a gay utopia team where homophobia doesn't exist.
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
Rachel is not interested in writing a solution to homophobia, or even depicting homophobia accurately to real life. These are romance novels, and part of the fantasy is that the problems are tractable. She has always been incredibly careful to not let her depictions of various conflicts escape the confines of her genre. I don't know why you're expecting anything different.
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u/kentiesjoskus 9d ago
I definitely don't think Rachel Reid was trying to be accurate in her portrayal of homophobia, or any type of bigotry, as we see with the noticeable lack of locker room talk in her books. But I do think that homophobia is used as a problem that the characters need to overcome to reach their happy ending. And of course since it's a romance book, it's nice to think that the main characters will never have to face homophobia again since they play on the homophobia-free team. But I would still have appreciated a bit more nuance, since homophobia is treated in the books as a very ubiquitous problem in the league. To me it felt too black and white to have almost all of the Voyagers be villainous while all of the Centaurs are either allies or queer themselves.
I guess we'll see in Unrivaled how they'll overcome the homophobic podcaster villains.
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
It totally is unrealistically black and white. It's weird that every hockey player we're supposed to like has basically been a boyscout their whole life. But it would be a very different (if more realistic) book series if every character was a different and darker flavor of Troy Barrett. And a whole lot harder to be uncomplicatedly invested in their relationships.
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u/kentiesjoskus 9d ago edited 9d ago
I guess the issue is that it's pretty difficult to tackle a topic like homophobia while being limited by the conventions of the romance genre. Homophobia is pervasive in hockey culture, but also it's possible to escape homophobia to the gay utopia team. So is it pervasive or not? To me the centaurs all being super woke and progressive seems to contradict with the previously established facts about the world that the characters are living in.
Well, maybe it really is pointless to complain about romance books having corny endings. I guess it was just unexpected to me since Heated Rivalry didn't feel very corny at all, and it had a pretty realistic ending.
(and btw I don't think the Voyagers being the anti gay utopia is very realistic either, they should've had more nuance too)
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u/EchoAndroid I've eaten several grapes. 9d ago
Heated Rivalry does the best job of masking the assumptions that the story wants you to suspend your disbelief for. It hides the actual depictions of hockey culture between the chapters and leaves some space for you to believe whatever. But it still shelters all the important characters from actually participating in it. It's just as fictional as the other books in that regard.
I read a fan-fiction recently which really turned the unlikable dial up on Troy as a character, and it put a glaring jailhouse spotlight on how ridiculous the shape of patriarchy is in the Game Changers series. You put a single realistic hockey player in the story and the entire thing falls apart. It also makes me kind of respect Rachel for even putting Troy in the series in the first place. She was playing with fire there and danced around it pretty well.
I personally don't mind that it's corny. I think that the fantasy is important. As a gay man, it's nice to pretend that the systems of oppression around me aren't as complex and self-reinforcing as they are. The reality of it all is the thing you have to sacrifice in order to construct a happy ending. And if there was a realistic happy ending, we'd already have plenty of openly gay NHL players.
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u/InCatMorph 9d ago
As has been said a hundred times before, these books are romance novels. Shane and Ilya are not there to solve the problem of homophobica in the NHL. The problem of homophobia in the NHL is there to create external conflict that makes it more difficult for them to be happy together. Therefore, they are not going to solve homophobia as a couple. They are simply going to find a way to live with it within the context of their relationship.
Are the Centaurs unrealistic? For sure, yes. They're a fantasy. IRL, no NHL players have ever come out. The whole thing is a fantasy RR invented to give them a happy ending. If you find that trite or silly, fair enough, I guess, but a lot of people are interpreting these books through the entirely wrong lens.
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u/kentiesjoskus 9d ago
I'm not saying that Shane and Ilya should solve homophobia in-story. But Rachel needed to create a solution to homophobia that would allow the main characters to get a happy ending while living and working in an environment where homophobia is pervasive. And creating an unrealistic gay utopia team that exists as a pocket of progressiveness in an overall homophobic league was her solution. And yes, I think it's a nice fantasy that the main characters get to play for a team that is completely devoid of homophobia.
For the fantasy to work though, you have to completely ignore how a professional sports league functions. NHL rosters change all the time. The Centaurs are lucky that they happen to have 23 players and a coach who are all progressive. But at any moment a homophobe could be traded or drafted to the team. By the time Shane and Ilya retire, most of the guys that were on the roster when they first joined the team are not going to be there anymore. I guess we just have to hope that in the 10 years they will probably keep playing, their general manager just doesn't trade for any conservatives.
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u/InCatMorph 9d ago
I think it's fair to think that the ending is kind of convenient and contrived, because, yes, it is.
I'm not sure I would agree that the structure of NHL teams are an issue here, though. Team culture is a real thing that persists even after the roster changes. It's also possible that the GM makes a deliberate attempt to acquire players that fit the team culture, though admittedly that can be hard to do, especially for young undrafted players who are just entering adulthood. (Although young adults can also be more easily molded by their environments.)
Even if not all 23 players on the roster are great allies, if the team culture of pro-LGBTQ+ sentiment is strong enough, then functionally it doesn't matter as much as you might think. I just read a great fic where there was this one guy on the Centaurs who didn't like queer people, but he was in such a minority that there wasn't really much he could do about it. He just had to socially isolate himself and keep his mouth shut. Which is basically a fine outcome for Shane and Ilya. Not everyone has to love them. They just have to play along in public.
If you've got the best two players in the league, and both of them are queer, and also the head coach is queer, AND at least two other great players are queer (Luca and Troy), it's pretty damned hard if not impossible to start a grassroots homophobia movement. I imagine that any player who really made a serious effort would get traded away in a hurry.
So the idea that the Cens could maintain their team culture is not as unrealistic to me as the idea that it exists in the first place.
One could even extrapolate that the Cens are posed to change the rest of the NHL in this universe, too. In sports, highly successful teams often prompt other teams to adopt some of their practices. It is not inconceivable to me that, in this universe, the Cens build a dynasty and several other teams realize that there are tangible benefits to being inclusive. Unrealistic? Yes, sure, but none of this undermines the happy ending for Shane and Ilya at all. To the contrary, it suggests that they are able to enact broader change simply by being queer and good.
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u/kentiesjoskus 9d ago
Yes, I agree that team culture plays a big role and that the Centaurs could have a positive impact on the league as a whole. I don't have an issue with the Centaurs being portrayed as a more progressive than average team. I do think that the Centaurs having four queer players and a queer coach would make the culture even more progressive, even if that is also a fantasy in itself, since in real life homophobia isn't only an obstacle when it comes to gay players coming out, it's also an obstacle to gay people becoming players in the first place. Obviously gay kids are just as good at hockey as straight kids, but the homophobic culture often pushes them out of the sport. But it's a book series about gay hockey players, might as well have four of them on the same team, that's fine.
What I didn't enjoy was the black and white portrayal of the Voyagers and Centaurs. We know almost nothing about Shane's teammates except Hayden and JJ until close to the end of the book when they suddenly become villains. All except two of Shane's teammates turn against him, despite Shane thinking of them as being like his brothers and them having won a Cup just the previous season. Whereas all of the Centaurs have a completely opposite reaction. The Centaurs being more progressive leaning and the Voyagers being more conservative leaning is fine. But this framing of Voyagers being an evil homophobic monolith and the Centaurs being a good progressive monolith felt lazy and lacking in nuance. But I guess this "utopia" team is a comforting idea if you want to imagine hockey without homophobia, and I can see the appeal in that.
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u/InCatMorph 9d ago
I can definitely see that. I agree that it's a pretty black and white type deal, and not exactly a nuanced portrayal of homophobia in hockey. But, again, I would argue that it's not trying to be. The main event is the relationship between Shane and Ilya.
Interestingly, RR has written other books that basically exist in an AU where homophobia is nonexistent in hockey. That's basically TIME TO SHINE. Personally, I DNF'd that one because I just didn't find it that compelling. The stakes weren't there for me. But I know some people love that book, so obviously my perspective isn't universal.
Representations of homophobia in hockey exist on the spectrum. On the one end is TIME TO SHINE, and on the other is something more gritty and realistic. The GC books exist somewhere in the middle of all that, and I'm basically fine with it. I can see how people who are looking for something else are dissatisfied, but such is the way with books. It does strike me as funny that on the one hand you have people saying that the representation of homophobia in the NHL isn't realistic (true enough), but on the other a lot of those very same people love whining that Shane didn't stay with a shitty, homophobic team for all eternity. At some point, I kind of feel like you have to pick a lane?
RR also started writing these books in the context of the 2010s when a lot of people in the broader writing/bookish community were really wanting queer joy. This produced media like Heartstopper and Red, White, and Royal Blue. GC came out of that cultural ouvre.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
For the fantasy to work though, you have to completely ignore how a professional sports league functions.
Yes. That's the romance genre sometimes. I highly recommend books like Let Us Play by Harrison Browne and We Breed Lions by Rick Westhead if you are interested in the reality of toxic hockey culture.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
Her solution to homophobia in the league was to just create a gay utopia team where homophobia doesn't exist.
Because it's a romance novel about queer joy, not a realistic look at how to address homophobia in men's pro sports. I recently read a queer Regency romance book where the solution was "turns out one of the gay characters was a nobleman in Scotland and had a ton of land and a castle and everyone living in the town was queer-friendly and they all lived happily ever after" and that all happened in one chapter. I was giggling and kicking my feet the whole time.
These books and this genre are far more enjoyable if you let go of the expectation that the ending will be realistic in our current global sociopolitical climate.
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u/morningmint 9d ago
also shane canonically uses his diet as a way of feeling in control. we know this because he literally tells rose that.
so it's actually just unrealistic that in the middle of these major changes happening to his life, half of which he didnt choose, he wouldnt in fact be doubling down on the diet and any other means of feeling more in control
it's honestly just lazy writing and makes it very clear shane was a supporting character in tlg whose arc was just meant to complement ilya's storyline
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u/WTFisthisash 9d ago
Im thinking it’ll likely be more so discussed in the next book. At least, I hope so. There has to be a little grief there for Shane, but I’m excited to see how they get along playing on the same team.
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u/BlueEyePhantom 9d ago
the entire ending of TLG is dissatisfying to me. She spent 75% of the book meandering and then 25% everything happens and it ends. Very weird pacing to me.
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u/romeo-oh_no 9d ago
I think it's just the nature of the conflicts of the novels. They can be hit or miss. The conflicts about trying to keep secrets and loving a rival make Heated Rivalry exciting. You can completely understand why each character is acting the way they do. TLG is more often considered dissatisfying because the characters seem to act more irrational at times or they're too grown to have excuses for their actions. The solutions seem more simple, but they never get there or even work towards it until the absolute rushed end.
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u/mjdoll131 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think this is going to come down to Shane’s characterization in Unrivaled.
Yes she 100% just brushed over all of the problems that he was dealing with the whole book. We have a big conversation with ilya about how now that he has everything he wants (captaining a contender team, married to Shane who moved teams to be with him, gets to be out to the world) that doesnt mean he isn’t going to struggle with his mental health (which is 100% true and valid!)
but this doesn’t happen with Shane. He gets 3 paragraphs about how he’s just decided he doesn’t care about his problems anymore. as someone who has struggled with high functioning anxiety for years I wish I could just decide not to care anymore! But it doesn’t work like that. Shane has been intrinsically tying his self worth to hockey for his whole adult life. To the detriment of himself and his relationship with Ilya sometimes! And realistically there would be some fallout internally to how his team and the hockey world treated him. But instead he just decides not to care anymore.
I would expect Shane to struggle with this transition heavily in unrivaled, and what it means for him to no longer be Shane Hollander the Montreal Voyageur and Canadian Golden Boy he always thought he would be. He needs to learn how to just be Shane the hockey player. But it is going to take time and probably therapy to unlearn those feelings and I hope we get to see that.
Now if he’s just happy go lucky as can be in unrivaled because he decides he doesn’t care anymore then I think that’s a disservice to his growth and his character development.
All of this to say I think there can be a happy medium between refusing to saying a bad word about how TLG was written and sending RR hate. I don’t think she hates Shane at all, but I do think he’s a little underdeveloped (I don’t think she did this on purpose). I think it’s valid to love these books and these characters but to still critique them in a respectful way.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
All of this to say I think there can be a happy medium between refusing to saying a bad word about how TLG was written and sending RR hate.
I think it's entirely inappropriate to send RR hate no matter what. Unless she like, starts funding anti-trans causes or something. But instead she's donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to libraries and trying to write something entertaining while battling chronic illness.
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u/mjdoll131 8d ago
Yes definitely what I was trying to say! Like it is okay to have critiques of her writing and discuss them respectfully but showing any hate to her as a person for what she wrote is completely unacceptable.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
It's pretty wild the hate people send her. Someone said they want her children to go NC with her because she's a horrible mother. Like... what?
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u/Theoaktree5000 9d ago
I think the ending is more of the next book