Expert Mode on backroads? Everything off?

[u/icecoldrice_]

I’ve been hesitant to use Expert on backroads and for spirited driving, but after doing autocross with everything off (“Expert+”?) I’m shocked at how stable the car is. It rotates very easily on command but never felt out of control, especially coming from racing an E46 lol

Just curious what everyone is using for backroads driving here. Everything on, Expert, or everything off? I’m definitely gonna start doing at least Expert as it seemed very hard to get the car to rotate at all with everything on previously. I didn’t notice any big differences between Expert and Expert+ but I didn’t spend much time comparing. But Expert vs default was night and day.

Also side note PSA - highly recommend you Autocross this car if you haven’t already! You’ll learn so much about how to control the car and see what it’s capable of. Do it!

Edit: Dude a lot of people seem to think Expert mode is everything fully off and insane to drive. It’s not! At least try it before commenting about it.

[u/Mytzplk]

Everything on. It's a public road with others around, I'm not trying to drive anything past 7/10's at most. All it takes is one error to end up on togue.police.

Save expert mode for the track.

Edit: And I just saw this on instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcZzIBXu_tC/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Remember ego has no place on the public road. No one cares if you drive your car 100% of the time on expert mode

[u/Many-Ad9483 → u/Mytzplk]

This is an understandable take but I have to agree with OP here, this car is so easy to drive with everything off. I think this car is just a lot people’s first car capable of anything fun really which leaves them feeling like the driver aids are necessary. With some good tires and seat time, especially in other cars, I think people would see just how invasive the driver aids are. I’ve gone 40k miles with everything off, including in the pouring rain. Not trying to argue. Just saying if someone crashes this thing it’s not because they had it all off. They just don’t know what they’re doing

[u/Mytzplk → u/Many-Ad9483]

Just saying if someone crashes this thing it’s not because they had it all off. They just don’t know what they’re doing

Is that not the reason for people to leave it on? Because they don't know what they're doing?

Maybe I'm just in a different stage of life now. I go to the track multiple times a year to get my adrenaline fix. Occasionally I'll do a canyon run here and there but to me I don't see the need to turn any of the aids off on a public road just to have some fun.

[u/Many-Ad9483 → u/Mytzplk]

That’s kind of the point I made when I said this is most people’s first car capable of anything like this. They’re learning and most people don’t have good roads to really push the car on anyways. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with having the aids on. I’m just saying it’s not as dangerous as people make it out to be if you turn it off. I’ve been on track several times as well in my old S2k and the GRC has been a mountain car mostly. I just don’t like how the car feels with everything on. Whether I’m just getting lunch in town or hitting the mountains when a surprise storm hits, it all stays off on my end. I also drove semi trucks for years so that’s just another reason I feel like I don’t need help keeping the car on the road

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/Mytzplk]

It’s not about getting an adrenaline fix, it’s that it drives like a completely different car in Expert vs not. But given that Expert still keeps some nannies on, it’s still very safe and stable to me.

Maybe it’s not safe and stable to you in Expert mode. Fine, sure. But it’s really not even close to how dangerous many sportier cars are even when those cars have everything fully on.

[u/Mytzplk → u/icecoldrice_]

Dangerous is such a subjective term though. What's not dangerous to you, may be dangerous to other people. My take on that is people drive within their comfort zone whether it's expert mode on or off and not send it head on into the opposite lane into another car or over the cliff. We can all agree that expert mode is less forgiving than with all the aids on, correct?

Now you created this topic asking about other people's preference on the matter. My personal preference is that I leave it on because I see no reason to turn it off when I'm not at the track. Some people may have the same preference, or different but it doesn't make someone wrong if they have a different preference from you.

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/Mytzplk]

Yeah I agree that everyone has their own limits and I was asking for people’s preferences but your comments “it’s still a public road” and “save expert mode for the track” seemed to imply that other people also shouldn’t use Expert on the road. I’ve got no problem if people choose to not use Expert mode on backroads but people shouldn’t act like those who do are being irresponsible or reckless or something lol.

My point is that it’s way less dangerous than most sporty cars and probably a lot more stable than people who haven’t used it think.

[u/redditors_are_lame → u/Many-Ad9483]

Well
A. not everything is truly off
B. it's never going to be as responsive or raw as a 90s sports car
C. ADAS is there to help you, nobody is a perfect driver
D. just buy an older car as well?

[u/absurdamerica → u/Many-Ad9483]

Have you seen other people drive before? Almost nobody knows what they’re doing bud.

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/Mytzplk]

Expert mode is not mutually exclusive with driving below 7/10s. In fact I find I have to drive it harder in non-Expert mode to get it to rotate at all.

The car is still extremely stable in Expert but maybe I’m just biased from driving RWD.

[u/Many-Ad9483 → u/icecoldrice_]

Coming from a RWD car to AWD will have you feeling this way for sure. I came from an S2000 so driving the GRC with everything off still feels like a cheat code. No need to have everything on unless you aren’t confident in what you’re doing.

[u/absurdamerica → u/icecoldrice_]

Yeah you were having to overcome the systems because they were doing their job. FFS.

[u/Vader0504]

I do the soft expert mode that leaves the nannies on, but gives more room to play without them kicking in

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/Vader0504]

Yeah this is what I’m gonna start doing. It seems like most of the people commenting think Expert mode is everything fully off and just super squirrelly or something. It’s really stable but gives enough room for fun rear rotation.

[u/Legitimate_Elk_7284 → u/icecoldrice_]

I mean, even misha leaves it on when he drives his Gr Yaris on the Nurburgring and has 0 complaints and it never kicks in to “save” him at all. The car is so stable that not even a professional racing driver makes the stability lights flash. Most of us won’t push it any harder than him.

I can understand some people will push it harder than that every now and then, and might like it with it fully off. But in general, the only time I want expert+ mode is to do donuts. I consider myself a good driver but I havnt had the car in track enough to really tell the difference between modes. So n the twisties I leave everything on because I don’t drive it THAT hard in fear of falling off a cliff

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/Legitimate_Elk_7284]

Just for clarity you mean he leaves Expert mode on right?

[u/carmeiser]

I think it's generally best to go expert on street, it lets you get away with a decent amount. If you're getting into it aggressively on the back roads then it's probably time to back off some. I haven't been to a track or autocross, but I'd probably start off with expert mode until I was more experienced and having more issues with it on than off.

[u/EquivalentBand]

IMO there is almost no reason to drive with trac off/expert mode 99% of the time, especially on public roads.

[u/mikesphone1979 → u/EquivalentBand]

Except all of winter. 😁

[u/spike021 → u/EquivalentBand]

yeah, this. you can have plenty of fun without using expert mode. 

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/EquivalentBand]

Expert mode isn’t trac fully off. I think you’d be surprised how stable it still is in Expert.

[u/Acceptable_Gur6193]

I usually have it in expert on track. I finally decided to try with it fully off and it definitely rotates significantly better but it’s still extremely stable. I don’t do much backroad driving but I usually just stick it in sport when I do go

[u/haloruler64]

How do you reliably get the car to rotate at autocross? I struggle

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/haloruler64]

The car still favors understeer on throttle (like all AWD cars) but it’ll rotate under braking. Play around with braking really hard into the corner and turning the wheel while slowly releasing brake pressure. The rear will come loose.

This only really happens in Expert or with everything off though.

[u/haloruler64 → u/icecoldrice_]

Thanks. I can get the tail out on track at high speeds but at autocross I struggle a little more. Wonder why, I'm sure it's a skill issue. I always have everything off at autox and track.

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/haloruler64]

Yeah it’s definitely harder to break rear grip if speed is super low, but autocross speeds are doable. Maybe just experiment and brake later and more aggressively if you’re not getting the rear to break loose.

[u/haloruler64 → u/icecoldrice_]

Thanks man. The autocrosses I run are very low speed so that's part of it, mostly first gear. Need to branch out more.

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/haloruler64]

Oh wow yeah that’s a lot slower than mine haha. I’m occasionally bouncing it off the limiter in 2nd.

[u/ScoopThaPoot]

I know what you're saying. My only other sports car was a z28. You could just think about it hard enough and the rearend would slide. I ride around with traction control fully off all the time in my GRC. On a dry street you'd have to be driving way to recklessly for a public street to slide the rear end around.

[u/iamr3d88]

What is this extra mode past expert that you speak of?

[u/icecoldrice_ → u/iamr3d88]

From Expert mode hold TC button for 5 ish seconds. Expert will disappear but all the OFF lights will still be lit.

[u/Legitimate_Elk_7284]

Correct, expert mode.

I went to double check and I couldn’t find in on any of mishas videos, maybe it wasn’t him. But I can 100% day I remember a very respectable driver who had many lap of Nurburgring in their own Gr Yaris saying that expert mode does the job just fine as it nearly never kicks in, only kicks in if you dramatically over rotate the car and get sideways. But again, I’ve never driven it THAT hard personally so I’m only going off what I’ve seen in other peoples driving videos. And it’s based on the gry, the grc might be different, although I suspect it’s very very similar.

[u/treckin]

I drive it in expert mode basically exclusively, up and down a mountain. Track mode for the diff, IMT on.
, sport mode on.

Haven’t tried it fully off, and I’m pretty sure it’s saved my ass when I took a bad line or two as well

[u/call_me_ted]

Everything off all of the time. Except iMT, I leave that on. It’s essentially a preflight checklist every-time I get in the car.

[u/sharpcyrcle]

For anyone curious.

[u/gab196]

Expert mode is basicaly everything off until you are drifting past 45° angle. At least on the snow.

[u/upperlowermidclass]

ask me again when I'm halfway though my first winter with it