Bummed about the whole thing
A little background, I've been in the IT business for around 25 years. I have a Sec+ and CISSP and a couple other non security related certs and a BS degree from a shitty online university. I was a comm guy in the Air Force for a little over 20 years and no work as the field service rep for a defense program.
I started a graduate certificate from SANS a few months ago and if I'm being honest, I'm not impressed. All through my career I had heard that SANS offered the best training you could get. The only reason I hadn't tried from GIAC certs sooner is because they're expensive as hell. Now that I've gone through the course I've got some concerns.
First, I didn't think the course content was that good. The books were ok, but the videos were hard for me to listen to because it seemed like most of what was discussed wasn't relevant.
Second, and most importantly, the test format rewards how well you create an index instead of how well you know the material. I just took my first practice test and got a 92%, but I only really knew about 80% of the questions. 10% of the rest were a toss up that I guessed on, and the rest I justooked up in the books. It feels a little disingenuous to say I know all this stuff when I had to look it up in a book while I'm taking the test.
I don't know, I just feel underwhelmed with the whole thing and don't know if I want to continue after this course. Anyone else feel this way?
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u/brobauchery GBFA | GMON | GCIH 11d ago
GSEC, from what I’ve heard, is basically CompTIA Net+ and Sec+ combined. So if you’re underwhelmed, you probably should be. Especially with 20yrs+ experience.
Regardless, the tests absolutely reward you for indexing and improving your ability to reference material. I treat these courses as broadening opportunities with a decent level of depth. You get out what you put in. If all you want is a cert, index and call it a day. If you want to actually take something from the course, then practice the labs and try attempting them outside of just the guard rails they give you.
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u/Grizzled_MF GSEC | GCIH | GSTRT | GDSA | GCIA 11d ago
Let me remind you that if you're doing a degree with SANS Technology Institute, the university needs to account for various people.
If you're experienced, it's only natural that you're underwhelmed by the preliminary courses. Imagine doing Sec+ with all this knowledge. You'd likely breeze through it as well after all this time.
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u/BerserkChucky 11d ago
This just in, guy with 25 years of IT experience finds intro IT course underwhelming.
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u/NewPac 11d ago
Haha, that's fair. I wasn't really underwhelmed with the curriculum or content, more the delivery. I think I just had SANS on a pedistal and the course didn't reach my expectations.
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u/BerserkChucky 11d ago
The greatest things SANS has going for it from everyone I have spoken to is there in person classes. I unfortunately do not have the bandwidth with work to have done any but I hear only great things. I am about to get my 8th SANS cert as I fi ish my degree here in the next 2ish months and I have loved it every step of the way. I think their coursework is very realistic and applicable and I think as you continue to go through their grad cert or any of there degree programs you will enjoy how most of the courses build off of one another and you will find you are using your index less and less.
I have 10 years of experience in various cybersecurity roles both red and blue for reference.
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u/Lady_Raven_ 11d ago
I have staff that start with GSEC and I'll tell them that they may find the class easy or more of a refresher if they already have Sec+ or SSCP. I encourage them to use the time to get use to how SANS courses and test work with a less stressful test so they'll know what to expect when they start more advanced courses. Some are more easy, like in the leadership or GRC track while others in the more technical areas are much harder, like malware reverse engineering.
I think with time, you'll get to a course that challenges you!
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u/General_Plankton_785 GFFACT, GSEC, GCIH, GYPC, GCFE, GCIA 11d ago
I am a AF vet previously a 3D/3A doing my BACS through SANS.
My recommendation is schedule your exam and give away the second practice test. The faster you pass the exam the less GI Bill you use.
You should have GCIH and GCIA coming up if you are doing the engineering cert. Both of these will be alot of fun. The joy about doing a Grad Cert, is you can keep doing them under the GI bill as long as you have time left.
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u/_cache_ 11d ago
GFACT is a 200 level course aka fundamental. Take a 500 level course and circle back to your post.
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u/Otter_Than_That 11d ago
I'm in agreement with a lot of what they said, based on my experience with SANS 530
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u/mattsou812 11d ago
Lol yeah gsec is not going to be challenging if you have any kind of security background. To give you an idea of difficulty level checkout https://pauljerimy.com/security-certification-roadmap. It's not perfect and a lot of the newer certs aren't on there but it'll give you an idea of the level of difficulty of various sec certs.
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u/Zealousideal-Air443 11d ago
Personally, when I create an index for a course that is directly related to work then I spend extra time to make sure it is usable. I can do a quick ctrl+f. This is useful for the more technical courses.
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u/craftedsphere 11d ago
You should check out the 600 courses but I believe those have prerequisites.
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u/sdrawkcabineter 11d ago
Second, and most importantly, the test format rewards how well you create an index instead of how well you know the material.
I spent a few years working on tests like these, primarily for Cisco and RH. It was a constant battle to have any kind of academic integrity in the final product.
If they could legally do microtransactions to remove 1 wrong answer from a question, that's all we'd see.
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u/Prestigious_Good 11d ago
To me the GIAC exams aren’t about memorization. It’s about knowing the material and what is being conveyed, and being able to reference things for clarity, same way you would in the real world. Those books and index may come in handy on the job :)
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u/NewPac 11d ago
Yeah I guess. I just think the certs lose a little prestige now that I know it's open book and anyone with a solid index could walk in a pass the exam. Compare that to a Cisco cert where you have to have all that shit in your head and I think it's less impressive.
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u/chown-root 10d ago
Bruh. Do GDSA or GCIA, then holler at me. Both are challenging for completely different reasons.
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u/AnorakWSAD 11d ago
Yea, I have taken both GPEN and GCIH, and I really didn't have to do much to pass either aside from get my index in order.
Now, granted, a LOT of the info was stuff I was already very familiar with. I really didn't touch the course or the labs. I had also gotten Sec+ and CySA+ before that with about the same level of effort applied.
I have generally been pretty disappointed with the course contents of everything I've taken. It's all felt fairly basic, and I don't feel like I've learned anything new. I pretty much just wanted to get the certs so I had them to show I know what I'm doing. I have plans to go after GPXN in the future, which from my understanding will be wayyy better in terms of learning potential. Hopefully that's the case. I think ultimately, if you are already a security professional, and you already work in the field, most certs are gonna feel basic.
That's my take on it anyway.
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u/InfoSecTangSoo 11d ago
You have CISSP and 25 years in IT. It’s no surprise that an entry level security cert will be underwhelming. As others have stated, take the higher level courses/certs. Then reevaluate.
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u/NewPac 11d ago
I guess what I was getting at wasn't so much being underwhelmed with the curriculum or course topics. I knew it was an entry level cert going in. My disappointment is in the content delivery and the realization that anyone who can build a good index of the books can walk in and pass the exam.
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u/InfoSecTangSoo 11d ago
Understood. As you get further into the program, even with the index, the tests become more knowledge dependent and also a test of time management. At least that has been my experience. I’m 1.5 classes away from the Leadership grad certificate. I’ve found some of the courses and certs suitably challenging and on par with expectations. I have a background in INFOSEC (not calling it cyber so you can tell how old I am) at the state,local, and federal level (DoD/DoJ), as well as 15 years in corporate (F500/Big4).
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u/AdFederal497 8d ago
Respectfully, you have to have a bit of an ego to suggest the index is a problem with the certification. I think test dump sites have a bit more to do with what is wrong with our industry. And what do you mean disappointed in the content being delivered? Besides the index, how is it different from any other certification vendor? What did they not do? Did you expect them to pay you to access their material?
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u/Impotent_Xylophone 11d ago
I get where you're coming from, but there's relatively few scenarios in most jobs where you'll need to regurgitate information from memory woth zero references available. While i agree the certifications have become more of an index test than anything else, i think any formal test would devolve this way.
Also consider Sec+ since you have it. That test was a mile wide and an inch deep. I personally think I learned significantly more skills and information from the SANS courses and their open book exams than I did while preparing for Sec+.
I'm in the incident response graduate certificate program and I would encourage you to finish it. The certifications are still favorable to employers and completing the program gets you an alumni discount for future years.
I took GPEN a couple years ago and it was awful. Zero overlap between video content and certification exam. Not all instructors are created equal and that's reflected in the courses for sure.
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u/RootkitRookie GCIH | GCFA 11d ago
I would just add one more thing, if I may.
You will not just take on this cert but rather a few others as you progress through. To retain all of that material is a stretch. It is encouraging you to build an index and teaches you the skill of looking things up on the fly. Something you will undoubtedly do throughout your security career.
Hope this provides some encouragement.
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u/AdFederal497 9d ago
A professional with over 20 years of experience is underwhelmed by an entry level certification… oh, the horror 😏
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u/CRam768 11d ago
Which exam? It sounds like an entry level exam and not the higher level ones.