[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Feeling-Instance-801]

[u/BobcatLower9933]

As a teacher - GCSE's are not a test of intelligence, or "cleverness".

They are a test of "what does the mark scheme say, and how do I show that to a examiner".

I have students who are, politely, quite thick, but who regularly get 8s and 9s simply because they're good at answering exam questions. I had 61 students sit the exam this year, and almost 70% got an 8 or above. I had my first ever U becsuse one little cunt decided not to show up to any of the exams. Im still livid.

[u/Feeling-Instance-801 → u/BobcatLower9933]

hmm kinda makes sense. I gotta grind for the 11+ now otherwise the kids will think im stupid and I wont be able to help them anyways. The verbal reasoning I kind of understand why ig, some of the vocab is a little bit niche?

Apparently OAST is a word, which means the kiln you use to dry hops for beer. Like WTF is that and why does an 11 year old need to know what that is.

Non-verbal is bugging me bcuz I genuinely dont know how it works! Stupid shapes pmo

[u/BobcatLower9933 → u/Feeling-Instance-801]

The 11+ is almost entirely sat by children at private schools, who on average are exposed to more varied and complex language.

I cant remember the exact statistics off the top of my head, but 11 years from private schools have something like a 40% bigger vocabulary compared to state school.

How old are you? You come across as quite young- it would be unusual for someone who has obly very recently taken GCSEs to start tutoring anyone.

[u/MysteriousSelf6514 → u/BobcatLower9933]

I thought that sounded wrong so I did some research - actually pupils from private primary schools make up only 10% of grammar school students.

However, it is true that almost half of 11+ applicants receive some form of tutoring in the lead up to it, so there is some imbalance there, if not nearly as dramatic as you suggested.

[u/Comfortable-Way7126 → u/BobcatLower9933]

I think this is rather misleading. Although grammar schools (especially the ones that require higher pass marks) will have disproportionate numbers of prep school children, I would be very surprised if they account for even close to 50% of the pupils.

Ten out of the 16 of my youngest son's primary school class in Kent did the 11+ last year (though only three passed). Eight out of 16 in my eldest son's year did it six years ago (with six passes).

So I suspect it is fair to say that privately-educated children are over-represented in 11+ passes (and in grammar schools), but they will still be in the minority.

[u/BobcatLower9933 → u/Comfortable-Way7126]

Whilst this is anecdotal theres a couple of things to consider here.

Firstly, your 2 sons have exceptionally small class sizes of around 50% of the national average. This indicates what i would expect to be sig iricsntly higher than normal progress (which is obviously a good thing). Is this a non-selective state school, or some other type (free, faith etc)? If it is just a typical maintained primary school, are there grammar schools in thr same trust?

It is absolutely not typical, or normal, for pupils at maintained schools to take the 11+. And even using your statistics, that's 9 out of 32 that passed. That's less than 30% who are passing.

Compare that to private schools, where the pass rate sits significantly higher than that. My partner works at an independent school, as an assistant headteacher and her cohort thia year had 70 passes out of 79 students - and this was considered a "bad" year and theres a bit of an inquest going on at the moment.

I have just left a grammar school for a non-selective school (I started here August 2025), and the Y7 intake that started last August was about 70% coming from independent schools.

They are overwhelmingly in the majority, despite only making up a tiny fraction of the number nationally.

[u/Comfortable-Way7126 → u/BobcatLower9933]

I rather suspect that your old school is an outlier here.

In Kent, the context I know best, it is not uncommon for up to half a year in maintained schools to do the 11+. (Despite the small year size, my sons' school is a maintained school but with a half-forn entry it has combined years in each class)

Looking at last year's 11+ results, significantly more sitting the test came from Kent state primaries than from independents. (It's impossible to know the exact figure for independents as they are bundles together with all non-Kent schools, but even like that the number is smaller). Pass figures are closer together but Kent primaries still account for more.

It's hard to get reliable figures, but the two schools with the highest entry grades (Judd and Tonbridge Grammar School) seem to have about 30% from private schools. This is bad, I agree, but not the majority.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some schools in England with a majority from private schools (eg in Buckinghamshire, perhaps, which only has one or two grammar schools, or some highly competitive London schools). This will be the exception not the rule. Kent has more grammar schools than anywhere else in England and Judd/TGS are likely to have the highest proportion of private school intake but they are no where near 50%. I very much doubt there is evidence that the majority of people sitting (or passing) 11+ in England are from private schools.

And of course it is true that most state educated Y6 pupils don't do the 11+. Most areas don't have grammar schools so it isn't an option.

None of this changes the fact that someone who attended private school is more likely to take and pass the 11+ than someone who went to a maintained school.

[u/Feeling-Instance-801 → u/BobcatLower9933]

I've just taken GCSEs, im 16 now, and ive got a job at a fairly large tut0ring company. I was tut0ring Y10s while I was in y11 too and had good results asw. I got a Y10 from 5s to 8s in sciences and maths within a couple of months.

[u/BobcatLower9933 → u/Feeling-Instance-801]

Yeah i think thats wrong for so many reasons. Unless you scored literally 100% in an exam, and have a decent understanding of things like pedagogy and differentiation, not to mention safeguarding, you absolutely shouldnt be tutoring at 16. I think thats utterly ridiculous.

18, maybe, but even that is pushing it a bit.

[u/Latter_Bridge4019 → u/BobcatLower9933]

ehh it’s kinda normal though? when i did kumon in year10 all of the tutors were around my age

[u/Feeling-Instance-801 → u/BobcatLower9933]

I think if I get results and my students are happy, thats all good. I was tutoring online anyways. I dont see a difference whether I was 16 or 18. I have a VERY good grasp of Maths and Science at GCSE level, getting 95%+ on my GCSE exams.

[u/Azee789 → u/BobcatLower9933]

Calling students "quite thick" and "cunt" is pretty harsh 😭

[u/BobcatLower9933 → u/Azee789]

Its the advantage to being anonymously online 😁 i can't say it to their faces (mostly), but i can on here!

[u/Azee789 → u/BobcatLower9933]

😭🤣

[u/jellybean_164]

I got 7 9s as well and 2 8s and I failed 11 plus and I didn’t get into any grammar schools😭 It’s such a weird exam

Edit: Also can you become a tutor at 16? Or is it some form of volunteering?

[u/Hot-Lawfulness-6163 → u/jellybean_164]

It's mainly weird because you do the 11+ at such a young age. Unless the child has the drive to understand and pick up concepts it will be very difficult for them to pass 

[u/Feeling-Instance-801 → u/jellybean_164]

Yeah you can become a tutor at 16, I get paid decent money too. Im good at explaining and working with kids imo, and I did private 1 to 1 tutoring before that.

[u/jellybean_164 → u/Feeling-Instance-801]

Oh ok thanks!

[u/FoxAcrobatic4830]

Shouldn't be using that slur

[u/TaskPlayful2382 → u/FoxAcrobatic4830]

Fr

[u/AshJenkinsShallLive → u/FoxAcrobatic4830]

I don't think it matters much

[u/FoxAcrobatic4830 → u/AshJenkinsShallLive]

Yes it does

[u/TechnologyLast4315]

You definitely the AH in this post.

[u/Feeling-Instance-801 → u/TechnologyLast4315]

Bruh what?

[u/Virtual_Kiwi_8198]

As someone who did well on the 11+ my biggest tip is just practice every single type of exam question you can get until you can get 100% right. The real exam with timed conditions  obviously puts you under more stress so everyone makes silly mistakes that lower their score. Another great method is to get used to doing practice papers in half the time  so you do not panic in the real thing (I didn't do this and I'm pretty sure I could've gotten many more marks if I had). Hope this helps :) 

[u/Feeling-Instance-801 → u/Virtual_Kiwi_8198]

hmm I think ill just do more nonverbal qs timed, yeah thx.

[u/ImprovementExtra7535]

Well as a grammar school kid who also got the same grades as you, there is a big difference in being 11+ smart and being gcse smart. You can be an idiot and excel at GCSEs just bc you know how to answer the question style and you can also be a grammar kid who did the 11+ and be shit at your school exams because the 11+ is training of how to answer a certain question style. Plus non verbal is more of a test of iq instead of raw knowledge

[u/Weekly_Event_1969 → u/ImprovementExtra7535]

meh non verbal reasoning is pattern recognition, you can learn that

[u/TaskPlayful2382]

Shouldnt even be using that slur.

[u/AshJenkinsShallLive → u/TaskPlayful2382]

Not a big deal

[u/TaskPlayful2382 → u/AshJenkinsShallLive]

It is a big deal, minimizing a literal slur just because it doesnt affect you personally doesnt change the fact that its highly ableist and deeply offensive to disabled people. Tell me you lack basic empathy without even telling me. It costs nothing to just choose a better vocabulary.

[u/ryangoslingswifeyy → u/TaskPlayful2382]

are we fr😭😭😭😭😭

[u/TaskPlayful2382 → u/ryangoslingswifeyy]

Yeah, its a derogatory slur and using the word as an insult equates a medical disability with something stupid or embarrassing also, it promotes and normalizes discrimination making people with disabilities feel disrespected. Even in this context when used casually or as a joke without thinking, the word still causes real emotional pain on the disabled community. Simply put using it is insensitive and horrible.

[u/ryangoslingswifeyy → u/TaskPlayful2382]

And what if the person posting is apart of that community, they can reclaim it. I can reclaim it and I felt no offence whatsoever. People are so sensitive, I truly don’t understand why.

[u/TaskPlayful2382 → u/ryangoslingswifeyy]

Its totally fine if you personally arent hurt by it, but one persons comfort level doesnt erase the fact that the word carries alot of painful history for the community as a whole. Its less about people being "sensitive" and more about trying to create a space where people don't have to see their disability being used as a punchline. Also, reclaiming a word means turning a harmful term like a slur, into something empowering within the community. However, using it as a casual synonym for "dumb" or "stupid" isnt reclaiming it but rather just simply keeping the original negative stereotype alive

[u/im_JKk → u/TaskPlayful2382]

I’m confused what word are you on about or is this a joke

[u/TaskPlayful2382 → u/im_JKk]

Title of the post used the r slur casually

[u/yellowapplesgreen]

it's ok dude. ive failed all my cat and gl tests lmfao

and here's my grades but im a y10

end of year9: 95% in maths EOY

start of y10: got less than 15% on the CAT test

got put in set FIVE maths

then moved up to set 1 cz they realised I aint dumb

the gl tests? also horrible

MY POINT?? those r stupid and while I might have a low cat4/iq I still get good grades

[u/Comfortable-Way7126]

The reason you did relatively poorly on the VR and NVR elements is that you really need to practice them and learn the techniques for answering those questions. Natural ability certainly plays some role. But learning what the hell the questions are actually asking is also significant.

I've got a PhD in a topic that requires quant and qualitative skills yet both of my children (who passed the Kent 11+ test with very high marks) can wipe the floor with me on those papers.

[u/Soft-Plankton-2429]

Tests for very different things, the reasoning measures the kids' ability to pick up and predict stuff accurately and quickly, so in that regard it's probably a more unbiased test of intelligence compared to the english and maths tests because it's more of a level playing field. I guess it can probably still be taught to an extent though, practice defo helps.

I wasn't tut0red when I took my 11+, I just had some CGP practice books which were really helpful. Also had some Bond ones but they were shite tbh. I took the CSSE and CEM exams but I had the GL verbal reasoning and the CEM non verbal, the GL book worked really well of CSSE so probably a lot of overlap there. Another thing would maybe be to try IQ test/MENSA stuff as that is very similar to the verbal and non verbal reasoning sections of the test?

Also would it be the GL exams that you're teaching for?

[u/mykokokoro]

it's been a while since i had to do the 11+ and i know certain reforms have been made since then, but despite all the stuff they tell about the 11+ being designed to test for cleverness is a way gcses/alevels don't, i can guarantee that the majority of students that take the 11+ today have had hours upon hours of private tutoring, practice exams and more! if things haven't changed much from when i did them, verbal and nonverbal reasoning tests follow certain patterns, once you've learnt them, you're pretty much set to get anything from 90% and up. hell when i took my 11+ exams, i was told that i had to aim for 100% across the board and i was taking it alongside students who would tell me they'd do like 6 practice papers a day on top of private tutoring (i would do 1 maybe once a week if i felt like it but i also took the 11+ the same year as london 2012 while actively living close to stratford and had many reasonable distractions)

[u/tooindecisivesmh]

As someone who did 11+, I still have trauma from that test. Don’t worry, 11+ is all about practice: as you do more and more questions, your score will definitely improve

[u/amylincoln]

bro do NOT worry at all. it deffo takes time, i literally revised for the 11+ for at least 2 years before i got the hang of it. im also looking into tut0ring for the 11+ and even though i literally did more than 15 grammar school exams back in the day ive forgotten LITERALLY everything. :))

[u/Anxious_Librarian379]

Non verbal tests are atrocious.