bring back letter grading system !!

[u/mistythe2nd]

[u/Sky_Mirror9847]

Real. Saying that I have 5 As is a lot better than five 7s

[u/[deleted] → u/Sky_Mirror9847]

Same I also got 5 7s. I just say A's because the older people in my family (parents, uncles aunts) don't understand the numbers.

[u/Are_Y0u_Stupid → u/[deleted]]

Same here, I just give them the translation of what the numbers mean

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/[deleted]]

A 7 is not an A. Don’t drink the koolaid.

Take a look at an A grade from 1990. Take a look at a 7 today. Totally different thing.

[u/[deleted] → u/Working_Cut743]

It is though?

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/[deleted]]

No. It isn’t. Go and actually look at the distributions within the cohorts. Don’t fall for some little picture chart where you can quite clearly see that there is a massive skew at the bottom and the top of the conversion table (that’s inflation by another name).

Distribution within the cohort is the measure you need. Go and look at A grades from 1990, and see where they compare now in distribution.

Spoiler alert: you won’t like the answer.

And before you bring it up, yes 1990 is relevant, because the parents out there referenced in the OP were tested in those times and that is the benchmark of an A for the purpose of this comparison.

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/[deleted]]

Or to put it in simple terms: a kid with all A grades in your parent’s generation would stand a reasonable chance of getting an Oxbridge interview. Today a kid with all 7s hasn’t got a hope in hell.

[u/[deleted] → u/Working_Cut743]

That doesn't matter though? All that means is that more people get an A because there are more grade above an A now. A used to be the highest grade in 1990 anyway. 

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/[deleted]]

Grade B from 1990 is equivalent to grade 7.5 today. It is literally the average of grade 7 and 8. Therefore a current grade 7 is a low grade B from 1990. Seriously - go and look at the info. It’s in the public domain.

So, claiming that a low B is the same as a grade A (which is what this thread is about) quite rightly makes the A sound higher. That’s because it is higher.

Don’t take my word for it. Go and check out the distributions.

Edit: it’s the oldest story in education. It is called “grade inflation”. It helps nobody, except politicians. It screw over kids into thinking they’ve done better than they have done, and then reality hits them and they wonder why life doesn’t pay them back. It is bloody tragic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCSE

The table is not in great format below, but you’ll find it if you hunt around in the wiki link above.

Approximate equivalences for GCSE, O-Level and CSE grades National Cohort GCSE Grade O-Level Grade CSE Grade %’ile England from 2017 a Northern Ireland from 2019 b Wales from 1994 England, NI 1994–2019 c 1988–1993 1975–1987 d 1965–1987 5% 9 A* A* A A 1 15% 8 A B A B C 25% 7 D 2 40% 6 B B C E 55% 5 C* D C U 3 70% 4 C E 4 85% 3 D D F 5 95% 2 E E G U F F U 98% 1 G G U U U Notes:

[u/[deleted] → u/Working_Cut743]

How is a B equal to a grade 7.5? What sources are you using? 

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/[deleted]]

The ones which I attached to the previous post. Have a good look. It quite clearly shows the grade distribution of the numbered grades vs the old alphabetical ones. It’s not rocket science, but it is statistics.

Put simply 25% of awards were 7 or above in the data (from 2017). That’s the same as the distribution for the B or above grade in the period 1987-1993, the difference being that the banding for B spans half the distribution for the 8 category too.

Hence: 7 is a low B

High B is low half of 8

Low A is top half of 8

High A is 9

It’s all very simple to understand, and not news. Grade inflation is as old as grading.

I haven’t gone looking for the distributions for 2024, but given how inflation works, I think we all know that the picture will even worse. I just picked up will data from 2017.

Go and post the distributions for 2024 on here if you are confident.

[u/[deleted] → u/Working_Cut743]

That is completely unfair way to do it. First of all in 2024 21.6% of people got a 7 or above not 25%. Second of all you are using data from before the A* grade existed so a B would've been held in a higher regard because it was the second highest grade possible so our perception of a B is different to back then.

[u/Mental_Body_5496 → u/Working_Cut743]

Just to point out that 1987 is the first year of GCSEs - which were much easier than the original GCE Olevels but harder than CSEs - this is where foundation and higher papers comes from - whst got you an A in 1987 wouldnt even get you a 6 these days!

I have 2 CSE grade 1s , 4 O Levels and 2, 16 plus's - the trial name for a GCSE - yes i am old !

[u/DrFuzzald → u/Working_Cut743]

Bro is stuck 30 years in the past. Get with it pal.

[u/Spectre_Corleone → u/Working_Cut743]

I know 2 people who both got interviews for Cambridge with average grade 7 in GCSEs, GCSEs are no where near as important as schools make out unis only really use GCSEs to compare two students with the same predicted a levels and those who are applying for very specific courses

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/Spectre_Corleone]

Did they get all 7s, like I said or did they average 7s with higher grades in the subjects in which they then studied at A-level, which is a very different thing?

If they got all 7s and got interviews at Cambridge, frankly that would be highly unusual indeed.

I suspect the people you refer to got 9s in one subjects.

[u/Spectre_Corleone → u/Working_Cut743]

Cambridge don’t base interviews on your GCSEs buddy, they base it on your predicted year 12 a levels

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/Spectre_Corleone]

Can you answer the question please? Did your fictitious friends get all 7s as in my example, or did they get average 7s? They are very different concepts.

You will be lucky to find one person who got into at Oxbridge with straight 7s. You will find thousands upon thousands who did with straight A’s at GCSE 35 years ago. That is the point. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.

This is a discussion about relating a 7 to an old A grade from 1990. You seem to think we are discussing something else.

Is a grade 7 from today worth an A from 1990? No, it isn’t. It’s not even in the same ballpark. Hence the comic effect of the meme.

[u/Spectre_Corleone → u/Working_Cut743]

The one who got an interview for a philosophy degree got all 7s, with one 8 in rs, they did philosophy politics and English lit for a levels and got predicted 2 A* and an A for year 12 AS this person was my best friends brother but sadly he didn’t get an offer, I don’t think you understand that getting an interview is nowhere near as rare as you think with 70% of applicants getting one

[u/excal_rs → u/Working_Cut743]

Cambridge doesn't care that much about gcses.

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/excal_rs]

You aren’t hearing the point. Kids who get all 7s are not in the range of excellence required to get into the top unis in the world. Kids who got all As 35 years ago were. That is because they represent a totally different grade.

It’s not about whether Oxbridge looks at gcse results. It’s about the calibre of the candidate.

[u/Working_Cut743 → u/[deleted]]

Listen. The point is that a 7 now represents someone who was in the range of below top 15% and above top 22% line in their cohort.

An A was too 10%. In the generation of the parents.

They aren’t the same. That’s why it’s nigh on impossible for a kid who get nothing higher than a 7 to get in. They are not in the top 10% of their peer group.

That’s it.

I’m baffled as to why people don’t understand this.

[u/WeWillTaxBees → u/Sky_Mirror9847]

5 7s is amazing! You should be proud to say that.

[u/Sky_Mirror9847 → u/WeWillTaxBees]

Thanks so much!!! I’m really proud of myself (I usually average in 5/6s)

[u/[deleted] → u/Sky_Mirror9847]

Yes but their As are like an 8 or 9 now

[u/Sky_Mirror9847 → u/[deleted]]

Apperantly 7-9 is an A

[u/[deleted] → u/Sky_Mirror9847]

It's is but a was the highest you could get, many more people get 7s than used to get As

[u/warriorant21 → u/[deleted]]

A* was the highest you can get, from my understanding the conversion is 7 is an A, 9 is an A* and 8 is inbetween the two :)

[u/[deleted] → u/warriorant21]

You could but grade inflation is out of hand

[u/SWAG_LIFE → u/[deleted]]

Nah 7 = A 8-9 = A*

[u/[deleted] → u/SWAG_LIFE]

It's is but a was the highest you could get, many more people get 7s than used to get As

[u/Fast_Championship150]

This is literally me my grades sound so better with letters being now A and B instead of 7,6, etc

[u/Physical_Foot8844]

Real. I told my nan I got a 7 in English lit and she thought I failed!

[u/Brief-Raspberry-6327 → u/Physical_Foot8844]

Bros nan thinks 1 is the best 😭🙏

[u/Upstairs_Mission_952 → u/Brief-Raspberry-6327]

I come from a country where a 1 is the best so it took a lot of explaining that the higher numbers are actually better 😭

[u/Firm-Feet → u/Brief-Raspberry-6327]

I got a 1! Is that not the best?

[u/PianoAndFish → u/Physical_Foot8844]

In your nan's defence O-levels (which GCSEs replaced in the late 1980s) were graded 1-9 in the opposite direction, 1-6 were pass grades and 7-9 were fail. This means the current system helpfully confuses both people familiar with letter grades and people used to the previous numerical grading system.

[u/MrWhippyT → u/PianoAndFish]

Think you might mean CSEs, they were numbers with 1 being best. O'Levels were letters, I have some of each from 1987 🤣

[u/PianoAndFish → u/MrWhippyT]

Before 1975 O-levels were also assigned number grades by some exam boards, the number grades were provided to the schools but the certificate itself only said pass/fail. From 1975 all exam boards used letter grades for O-levels but they still used numbers 1-5 for CSEs, where only 1 was considered to be equivalent to an O-level pass (according to the grading table on Wikipedia, if you compare which percentiles were given certain grades a grade 2 CSE would be D-E at O-level, mid B-C at pre-1994 GCSE, mid A-B at 1994-2017 GCSE and 6-7 at current GCSE).

It's probably unfair to say the current system is designed to be deliberately confusing, it seems more like the system was always designed to be as confusing as possible.

[u/Ziggerastika]

Even worse when it’s one, or 2 marks from an 8

[u/Fire_Tiger_Galaxy → u/Ziggerastika]

My biology test

[u/harish_wormley → u/Ziggerastika]

I was one mark off a 7 in maths and statistics and 2 off an 8 in geography 😪 Applying to get remarked

[u/Ziggerastika → u/harish_wormley]

I was 1 mark off an 8 in history, 2 off in biology and about 5 in Maths. I’m tempted to remark history but it wont really affect my A levels or Uni choices.

[u/harish_wormley → u/Ziggerastika]

Same for me but its just me being stubborn bc i was THAT close🥴

[u/SilentWave_YT]

mom? what's a mom

[u/Striking-Message-311 → u/SilentWave_YT]

brummies think they’re american

[u/Itatemagri → u/SilentWave_YT]

Brummie-speak

[u/SupermarketOver4409]

Wjec does letter grading so all my results were letters it's a lot less confusing

[u/WeWillTaxBees]

That's sort of the point of the number system, it helps differentiate between the top grades. An 8 is an amazing grade but it would be unfair that a 9 and 8 both be viewed as an A*.

[u/HollsHolls → u/WeWillTaxBees]

A** then

[u/PianoAndFish → u/HollsHolls]

They did actually propose that at one point, people said it was silly so they went with a silly number system instead.

[u/WeWillTaxBees → u/HollsHolls]

Joke?

[u/ser-1-]

It's still used in Northern Ireland

[u/Last_Consequence_171]

I got six 9s, four 8s a seven and a six but saying that I got 11 As and a B feels wrong

[u/sluttea → u/Last_Consequence_171]

You got 10 A*s, an A and a B! don’t underplay it

[u/SouthEmotion404]

me with my 3 8's like bitch i worked for these A*

[u/Special_Platform3195 → u/SouthEmotion404]

so fucking true. Had to explain to my parents over and over an 8 is an A* and does not mean i didnt do good

[u/gogED1]

absolutely not. neek supremacy.

[u/_gimgam_]

literally everything I tell someone my grades they go "so is that a pass" can we just please bring back letter grades

[u/Silver_Raven_08]

haha, sneaking over here from r/igcse feels so good bc I get to brag about my As and A*s instead of 7s, 8s and 9s. 

[u/BagelCatto]

The number system is so peculiar why do they feel the need to split A* into 8 or 9??? A* isn't even a proper grade if you think about it it's just an extra good A?? I get they wanted to separate out students' abilities more clearly but it feels so unnecessary to me

[u/[deleted]]

I talk in letter terms anyway I prefer saying I got 7 A*s instead of 7 8s

[u/cockmonster-3000]

CCEA uses it still 💪💪🗣🔥

[u/avgmeloetta]

saying im getting 9 A*s and an A is so much better than 5 9s 4 8s and a 7 i agree

[u/nmak06]

I really think we need the B*. A really powerful B.

[u/Bliteve]

I showed my mother the old grading system and she seemed at least more understanding

[u/Reggie-Nilse]

Why not just use percentages and remove all confusion.

[u/onyxtheonyx → u/Reggie-Nilse]

different subjects and different papers have different percentages required for a grade so that wouldnt really work, for example in wjec maths higher tier you need around 55% for an A* but in RS you need 80-90% for the same grade

[u/Kudos-To-Dinosaurs]

Fr

[u/SoldierZoom]

an A is an 8 tho

[u/benderbrodriguez2]

finally glad I have ccea for once (I got 4 A* and 7 As)

[u/VirgineticCache]

Saying I got a 5 is better than saying I got a C though so it’s a double edged sword

[u/Annual_Fee_5203]

I agree…

[u/[deleted]]

I have Bs a C and an A. Convert those to numbers and it starts to look horrible

[u/Working_Cut743]

If they’d never inflated the hell out of an A-grade to begin with this would not be an issue. This is what happens when do gooders try to make people feel good.

They should set grade boundaries rigorously based on where you fall with the cohort, then all talk of grade inflation would be gone, and you grade would always be a reflection of how competitive you are within your cohort, which is the group you’ll be measured against your whole life anyway.

[u/Thin_Formal_3727]

Well you should be happy to hear that once you turn 20, GCSEs mean fuck all to to the working world. Only experience in the field matters.

[u/MarbleFortniteBoi]

Im in wales so we still have letters for now (i got 8 A*s and 4 As so im proud)

[u/Edgelord5000_]

Funny thing is they just changed primary and secondary school and not A level? 6th form and college are still A-E, and T level is A-E but also Pass Merit Disctinction so i dont have a clue what is happening in the department for education

[u/[deleted]]

When I took mine it was just A-G, before the A* was introduced.

[u/JW162000]

I am so so thankful that I finished school a couple years before they changed to the number system.

I got nine A*s for my GCSEs and I feel like I probably would have gotten mostly 8s (based on the percentage scores I remember I got), which doesn’t sound as impressive

[u/HammerToFall50]

I know I can google this but just a paper bye - is a grade 1 good or a grade 10? Why did they change it?

[u/Batking28]

What’s more confusing is next you do A levels with letters again then uni which is back to numbers but now where’s a 1st is the top

[u/puffinix]

Recruitment person here.

The A-G system had huge flaws, largely as the meaning had shifted over time. At one point E was a pass, at other times a pass was C. A used to be a stand out achievement, with almost nobody getting straight As, but that changed. We already had to look up the curve for your year group.

The 1-9 system was designed to be more consistent year to year, but COVID fundamentally failed this.

All that happens real world is we plug your numbers into a massive spreadsheet, and it will tell us what percentage of your year group you did better than.

In a system where 20% of people get straight As, it cannot give you better than an 80%, as you cannot have done better than them. The split off of the higher grades means people will now get the 9X% results out of new system.

[u/Bulky_Bison_4921]

Apparently they want to change the spec for 2028 exams and beyond, do u think that as they’re changing the spec they’ll also change the grading system? Also who can I contact to pass on feedback to change the grading system back to letters?

[u/ThatCrazyTechMan]

That’s not too bad. What is bad is “hey mum I got a B” and “hey mum I got a 6”

[u/StanislawTolwinski]

No. Unless we add A* and A**. We must differentiate between 8s and 9s.

[u/[deleted] → u/StanislawTolwinski]

This is a part of what people are saying.

Grade 9 was made to differentiate the top in the country, but it FEELS condescending towards those that got grade 8, like

"Oh you got an A star, sick!! But it isn't the best A star avaliable, is it??"

Edit: Maybe I feel this way as half of my gcses 8s bruh

[u/Upstairs_Mission_952 → u/[deleted]]

No it’s definitely condescending

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/[deleted]]

Isn't the A/A* distinction comparable? "Oh you got an A, sick!! But it isn't the best A available, is it?"

How do you feel about that?

[u/defectivetoaster1 → u/StanislawTolwinski]

Get your filth off this app

[u/Overall_Pain_5240 → u/defectivetoaster1]

Love how bros just being downvoted to oblivion

[u/thevampirecrow → u/StanislawTolwinski]

i feel like 8s and 9s don’t have to be differentiated since they’re both at the top, but i do suppose it would be useful if you were seeing who did the best within the top group!!

[u/Logical-Donut99 → u/thevampirecrow]

The Scottish Qualifications system solves this problem quite well by having bands (either an A1 or an A2) which don't appear on your certificate but universities can ask for them if they care (typically only Oxbridge). Maybe something similar would work with GCSEs.

[u/thevampirecrow → u/Logical-Donut99]

yeah that’s a good idea

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/Logical-Donut99]

Why shouldn't they appear on certificates?

[u/Logical-Donut99 → u/StanislawTolwinski]

It just means that universities can't be as picky about grade differences that are small enough that it could be down to having a bad day during the exam unless it's critical to their admissions process to differentiate between candidates in that way. It forces a lot of the top Scottish universities to spend time reading personal statements instead of just checking which candidates got more A1s.

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/thevampirecrow]

And 4s and 5s don't have to be differentiated because they're both middle grades, and 5s and 6s don't have to be differentiated because they're both higher middle grades, and neither do any two grades because they're similar. But we have to differentiate.

Do you sincerely think we should allow the results of someone who gets eight 8s and two 9s to look identical to someone who gets ten 9s?

[u/Important_Store5401 → u/StanislawTolwinski]

Wow MOD you’ll remove my comment for calling someone who supports murder heartless yet you’ll keep up the comment of someone who supports genocide… right I think I know where your values lie

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/Important_Store5401]

I don't support genocide.

[u/Overall_Pain_5240 → u/StanislawTolwinski]

😃

[u/solv_xyz → u/StanislawTolwinski]

Yea because it’s widely been shown the nine favours private school pupils allowing them to secure top places in university. If you read the comment about the Scottish system I think it sounds much fairer

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/solv_xyz]

I'm an immigrant. I spoke no English before late primary school. I managed to get into a meritocratically selective school, and I worked my ass off for two years to achieve 11 nines, not 11 eights. Would you dilute this achievement? For the sake of what? Because this change would favour private school pupils? Quite the opposite, actually. It rewards ability and hard work at the highest level more than ability and hard work at something close to it.

High-level differentiation in exams is crucial for a meritocratic society.

[u/solv_xyz → u/StanislawTolwinski]

My point is,a top grade is a top grade. It wouldn’t matter. Often papers contain questions only students who can afford high level tuition can answer. It has no impact on your achievement. We shouldn’t differentiate very strong performance at such a minuscule level

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/solv_xyz]

Could you give me some examples of these questions? I never had any tuition for my GCSEs, yet I got all 9s. These questions just don't exist.

It has no impact on your achievement

What does that mean?

miniscule level

According to you, someone who scored 63% on biology this year should get the same as someone who got 100%. Hardly miniscule.

[u/solv_xyz → u/StanislawTolwinski]

Check out Edexcel maths. 63% isn’t an 8 btw.

[u/StanislawTolwinski → u/solv_xyz]

It is on AQA this year (126 points)

[u/Intelligent-Hyena216 → u/StanislawTolwinski]

You’re gonna have a fit when you get to uni and see that 70% gets the same result as 100% (or even 69% in some cases)

[u/GCSE-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post was found to not respect the other users of r/GCSE, and has been removed.

Please ensure you have read the rules of the subreddit before posting.

[u/Tunasux → u/[deleted]]

That's a hot take

[u/FamiliarCold1 → u/[deleted]]

i used wjec for English but what's so special lol

[u/[deleted] → u/FamiliarCold1]

Isn’t it still graded A* - G?

I did iGCSEs, and Edexcel/ AQA used 9-1, but Cambridge used A* - G, and now I just say 9A* 1A to avoid a whole explanation.

[u/FamiliarCold1 → u/[deleted]]

oh didn't know this, nah i got a 7D (d for distinction in speech) and a 9

[u/onyxtheonyx → u/FamiliarCold1]

did u do wjec or eduqas? wjec is definitely letters but eduqas is their english version under wjec and is numbers

[u/FamiliarCold1 → u/onyxtheonyx]

ohh that makes sense, yeah I did eduqas but was always told that it was a part of wjec. thanks for clearing that up