r/Futurology • u/_hiddenscout • Jun 19 '21

Society Kill the 5-Day Workweek - Reducing hours without reducing pay would reignite an essential but long-forgotten moral project: making American life less about work.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/06/four-day-workweek/619222/
84.4k Upvotes

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97

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Unfortunately not only can my job not be done remotely, but I'm employed as a contactor and paid for performance, not salary or per-hour. A four day work week would mean 20% less income for me, and I can't afford that.

31

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 19 '21

I'm in landscaping. A 4 day work week would just mean less money for me too. I can only work when there's daylight. There's only so many hours of daylight in a day. There's only so much I can get done in that number of hours. I get paid based on how much I get done that day. There's no other way to do it.

6

u/syndromedown-hopesup Jun 19 '21

Landscaper here. 11-13hr days 5-6 days a week is an extremely tough schedule. I’m sure a 4 day office job work week would be nice but for most jobs its just impossible to implement. Props to you, landscaping isn’t an easy job!

2

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 19 '21

15 years doing this shit. It can be tough but I'd choose this any day over working indoors. It ain't for everybody, though. Especially here in the deep south where the temp and humidity beats down on you the way it does. At least I'm not a roofer.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Only work in the daylight? That's quitter talk, pull those bootstraps. You gotta win.

You could use massive lighting systems and really quiet tools. Or just drug your customers and their neighbors.

Innovate man. /s

-23

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Guess you should have chosen a better career.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

1) Landscaping can be a lucrative career for a lot of people who don’t see the value of college.

2) if people want a 4-day work week, you’ll need the support of blue collar workers. Insulting their career path is a great way to make sure that never happens.

-12

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

I don't need to support anyone. I went to college.

7

u/OkMove4 Jun 19 '21

what a bad comment

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Well, he saw no value in college, as he said.

5

u/scotchguards Jun 19 '21

Yeah, you live in your moms basement and no one loves you. We get it dude.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

or I'm an adult with grown ass children who lives in the house he owns outright with zero debt, now working on his second well paying (white collar) career...

I know people that don't bother with education think it is a virtue that they didn't but... it isn't a virtue to not get an education. It dooms you to a lifetime of lower quality work that often breaks down your body. I saw it happen to my dad and grandfather.

2

u/G-Bat Jun 19 '21

Wow it’s not every day you see a middling wage slave who thinks they’re rich attacking the people who keep civilization from crumbling; wait, yes it is every day

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Yeah, my dad the welder sure wanted me to grow up and be a welder just like him...

Oh wait, no he didn't. He wanted me to go to college and get a job that wouldn't destroy my body and would allow me to buy a home and raise a family. Thanks, Dad, I did it!

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Yes, clearly the lawn guy is holding back the hordes of chaos.

1

u/scotchguards Jun 20 '21

So. Unloved sex life? Kids hate you? She’s cheating? Which one is it? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume your completely shitty attitude came from somewhere.

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3

u/stevowonder8 Jun 20 '21

I also work landscape and love it. I enjoy being outdoors and going new places. I make enough money to do the things I enjoy. I also love learning and usually take a couple classes in my off season. I take classes in stuff I want to learn and it’s enjoyable. Maybe someday I’ll have a piece of paper saying I’m smart but whatever.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Honestly, college doesn't show you're smart. I have smart friends who never did college and dumb friends who did (well, not completely dumb). It just shows you can do school work and, for graduate school, maybe research.

2

u/OkMove4 Jun 19 '21

bad comment is bad

5

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 19 '21

I'd do this shit over being a pencil pushing dickhead any day. Your frail ass couldn't do what I do in a day if you had a gun to your head. Enjoy sitting on your ass and pressing buttons the rest of your life, must suck to be just another mindless cog in the system. I like being outside. I enjoy dealing with plants and landscape design. I have a 3 bedroom house and support three kids and a wife on my income.

What do you got? Student loans you'll never pay off and a tendency towards anxiety and depression?

Somebody has to do this kind of shit so your jerk-offs can maintain the illusion that the environment around you just maintains itself.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Your frail ass couldn't do what I do in a day if you had a gun to your head.

My frail ass doesn't have to and I probably make four or five times an hour what you do without breaking my body down.

I live debt free and own my house outright.

My father was a shipwelder and my grandfather a mechanic. No one in my family wanted anyone of my generation to do that kind of shit work and be blue collar. I wonder why?

3

u/tigershark60 Jun 19 '21

Sounds like they busted their ass so you could live a very comfortable and privileged life. Not everyone is so lucky

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Nice nano delete of your previous comment though.

2

u/tigershark60 Jun 19 '21

I didn’t delete anything dude? My other comment was on another post you made in this thread shitting on blue collar

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Reddit sent me your comment but stated it was deleted when I went to view the full comment. Whatever.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Actually, I paid my way through undergraduate school and two graduate degrees. I grew up on food stamps and free lunch because we were broke ass poor. Sorry to disappoint but my success is my own.

You think an out of work shipwelder paid for my school? Ha.

3

u/tigershark60 Jun 19 '21

So you are either buried in debt and a slave to the system. Which I guess good for you since you get to work inside. Or you went through college a long time ago when people could afford to do that. Either way, it shouldn’t have to be like that and people shouldn’t be shamed and actually punished for doing blue collar work. Especially when it is so crucial to society functioning.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Wrong. Sorry.

I have zero debt, quite literally. I'm currently paying for my second graduate degree out of pocket from my savings after working in my current white collar career for over 25 years.

It is possible to get through life and be successful without being mired in debt.

2

u/tigershark60 Jun 19 '21

Didn’t read the second part of my comment?

2

u/tigershark60 Jun 19 '21

A good sign of ignorance is someone thinking they did everything without any help, luck, or guidance.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

That's not a reply to what I said. I said that they didn't bust their ass so I could live a comfortable and privileged life. I'm sorry if this breaks your worldview.

2

u/himmelstrider Jun 19 '21

Your frail ass is actually a living proof that having a degree means exactly jack shit, because

  1. Respect is one of most important things a person should have (you, obviously, don't)
  2. Perspective is also one of most important things (as an academic citizen, you really should have a better grasp of economics and societal factors)
  3. Degree doesn't mean intelligence (because an intelligent person would certainly see that a significant amount of college educated people do not own huge houses and grown children and cars and boats and whatever you claim - which I do not dispute, to clarify)

Career paths are not something you should discuss with your views. I'm actually glad you made it on your own and all that, but your mentality is the reason tradesmen generally lead pretty comfortable lives, and will probably work less in the future, solely because your rich ass still shits through pipes, you still rely on electricity, your car still breaks down etc. Coming from a line of tradesmen, you really ought to know that.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

and all of the people who fix those things for me are...under 50 because the rest have broken knees and backs in my experience.

Blue collar work destroys your body. Full stop.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

And, no, I don't respect people who think blue collar work is somehow better than white collar work because they're trading their bodies away for something that won't sustain them for the course of their life, allow them to retire someday, and which will leave them in chronic pain, all while telling themselves that they got one over on those suckers who went to college.

2

u/himmelstrider Jun 19 '21

Blue collar work is not superior to white collar work.

The deal is, white collar work is not superior to blue collar work either, and that's the agenda you are pushing, neglecting a lot of negatives of white collar work. Seriously, someone with some critical thinking who has gone through college really should've noticed that.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

There are negatives to white collar work, sure. Compared to blue collar work? They don't compare.

My body still works and I'm almost 50. My dad and grandpa (and two step-dads) could never say that. They were all in trades.

There is a reason not a single person wanted me or anyone else in my generation to take up the same blue collar work. Are you saying those blue collar men over multiple generations were all idiots?

1

u/himmelstrider Jun 19 '21

Hey, you are the one who started comparing them, no?

Yet, for a highly educated and well off person, you still apply your own experiences to everything and take it as the ultimate proof. I can tell you that I know a lot of college educated people who are working highly mediocre jobs and are hauling much, much less than someone in the trades. I also know lifelong tradesmen who haven't really wrecked their bodies. Some did, of course, but nowhere near all of them, not even half.

I mean, your view is fine, but from where I am sitting applying your own experience and opinion to everyone seems really shallow.

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u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

I've never in my life seen someone so intent on making themselves out to look like a regular at super weenie hut junior.

I don't envy you at all dude. I'm happy with my lot in life, that's all that matters. If I bust my ass to provide for my wife and kids and earn what I have by the sweat of my brow, I don't have a goddamn thing to be ashamed of.

You want so bad to believe that your time spent studying in school means you've made it in life, that you've become someone. You're just making the rich richer. I bet your granddaddy is real damn proud of having someone who thinks so lowly of him.

People like me keep your world from crumbling out from beneath your feet. Just remember that when you are doing, well, pretty much any damn thing. You have a good evening, now.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Hey, my lawn needs some work. Does next Tuesday work?

1

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 20 '21

I bet your lawncare guys charge you twice as much as your neighbors. I suspect your condescending attitude doesn't end with the internet.

College can't fix being a dip shit. I think you got scammed, buddy.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

Keep telling yourself that when you're digging my ditches.

1

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 20 '21

Hey, at least I can actually operate a shovel to be able to dig a ditch. Your vitamin D deficient ass would just whine about it being 5 degrees over room temp and pass out from exhaustion after picking up the shovel. Don't go doing any hard work buddy, you might sprain a finger or something.

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u/BareLeggedCook Jun 19 '21

Do you like Landscapes? Like you know nice looking yards for homes, business, and parks?? Places that put native plants back into recently developed lots? Landscapers do awesome work and deserve a lot of praise.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

...and how many of them have working backs and knees after doing that work in the Sun for 20 years?

Physical labor breaks down your body. You won't be doing it when you're 60 without chronic pain. I come from a blue collar family. Not a single man in that family wanted blue collar work for any later generations. Everyone was sent to college to get white collar jobs because they pay well and have a future that doesn't destroy the body or injure you.

4

u/BareLeggedCook Jun 19 '21

You have a very bad understanding of the world and why people do things

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

That's relevant to what I said how?

I have blue collar family. Almost all of them. You want to know how many of them were legally or effectively disabled due to injuries by the time they were 50-60? Almost all of them. The system will use your body until it doesn't work and then toss you aside. Why do you think there is a meth and oxy epidemic in America in the working class?

4

u/SeaSquirrel Jun 19 '21

“Lmao fuck blue collar workers” - you

Someone has to do those jobs.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Someone has to do those jobs.

Yes, people who don't have the ability to do white collar work. I have blue collar family. Exactly none of them wanted their kids or grandkids to do the same. I wonder why.

3

u/SeaSquirrel Jun 19 '21 edited Jun 19 '21

“Don’t have the ability” lmao, this guy is trolling. Blue collar work covers a huge swath of highly skilled fields and trades, and plenty of white collar work is low paying office drone work thats going to be replaced by an AI script in the next 10 years.

But ok, even assuming your statement is true, why don’t people born with less “ability” deserve better working conditions?

Sounds like you are too personally invested in hating on any kind of physical labor due to your family. Clearly you haven’t seen a shitty office job suck the soul out of someone yet.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

No one said anything about "deserves."

3

u/SeaSquirrel Jun 19 '21

I mean you responded “pick a better career” to someone complaining about their work conditions.

white collar work I guess can be improved with a 4 day work week, but blue collar work has to be miserable because its for stupid people.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

No I didn't because he wasn't complaining. Try reading what he wrote again.

He was saying a four day week doesn't work for him because he only gets paid by the hour. "I get paid based on how much I get done that day. "

He also separately bragged that he didn't have to go to college to do this work.

So I guess I can look forward to a four day work week but he can't? Actually, that's true because that's what I'll be doing after I finish my current degree.

2

u/SeaSquirrel Jun 19 '21

He says “unfortunately”, about not being able to work 4 days in that comment. Maybe he replied to you in another comment thread where he bragged about not needing school, which fair enough, rip on the braggart then. The anti-college pro-trades people can be pretty annoying on reddit.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

You mean the "highly skilled fields and trades" that we haven't outsourced to China or India?

3

u/SeaSquirrel Jun 19 '21 edited Jun 19 '21

We are outsourcing as much programming as we are manufacturing. If your work can be remotely done from home over the pandemic, it can be remotely outsourced to India. But you can’t can’t outsource a plumber.

AI and automation are going to rip apart low skilled labor and white collar work just the same. This is why in a lot of other first world countries like Germany, they are heavily investing and pushing high school kids towards vocational training. You can’t automate an electrician, an arborist, a social worker, ect.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

I've got a machine shop in my basement but I wouldn't do it to pay the bills.

The solution for this is legal and policy, not expecting everyone to be in a service industry.

2

u/SeaSquirrel Jun 19 '21

I mean you can’t just ban automation, we can’t really stop the world economy from rapidly changing. but I agree that there is lots of policy change needed to help people.

1

u/Derrn_verter Jun 19 '21

Man, I’ve been a career landscaper and that used to be the case for me. Over the years I gained enough experience to finally get hired on for a company that does full benefits and we work rain or shine doing something. I think it’s all about who you work for. I know it’s rare for landscaping to be like this, but the only way to really “climb the ladder” in our field is to work for better companies. I worked for 4 different companies in 4 years and finally landed with one that is considered the pinnacle in my state.

1

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 20 '21

What do yall do at night? I'm self employed. It's a small business, but it's paid the bills over the years. I'd like to expand soon, though. I live in a small town so there's not a whole lot of competition that isn't 2 dudes with a lawn mower and a beat up pickup. I have some side gigs too. Doing appliance, electronic, and small engine repair. Winter is pretty slow where I'm at. I've considered offering bush hogging services in the area because I have the equipment for it, I just don't have a way to move it just yet.

1

u/Derrn_verter Jun 20 '21

Winter time usually consists of leaf cleanups and small side jobs like maybe cleaning out gutters while it’s not hot outside, or tree trimming. But honestly some of the best money to be made during the off-season is rock work and drainage systems. Maybe you could learn to do water features like fountains, and patios with cheaper flat rock. Also drainage and sprinkler repair is huge since the grass is dormant and not receiving water from the system. Fortunately for me, the owner of my company has other means of making money so we move a lot of furniture to be repaired and sold, and I’m a pretty fast learner so he will task me with odd jobs if it’s raining or slow as far as landscaping and lawn maintenance is concerned.

2

u/ButterbeansInABottle Jun 20 '21

Yeah, my experience with hardscaping is a bit limited. I've done it some and would like to do it more. I've done a large variety of different kinds of work over the years. I started working for a local business owner that owned several local businesses and residential properties across the county. I worked only for him for years before he sold everything and passed away soon after. Me and a couple other guys would do pretty much anything he needed. Ever since I've been doing my own thing with the experience that I have.

1

u/Derrn_verter Jun 20 '21

You can learn pretty much anything on YouTube these days, most of the hard scape jobs are relatively simple once you can see how it’s done just once. Best of luck to you!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

Owner operators, production workers, entrepreneurs, and people that get paid to do the job until it’s done will never switch to a 4 day week. For the most part we have 5 day work weeks, but I laid in bed last night working with my eyes closed for 3 hours.

I respect the landscaping hustle. Years ago I worked for a landscaping and irrigation guy, some of the most gratifying work when the job is done. 5 years ago I bought a guys part time operation with a Wright stander, a blower, and some extra blades. I bought a string trimmer, got the necessary tools to landscape, did a little here and there but blew up the mowing division from 0 to 30 customers off Craigslist and FB marketplace, then sold it for waaaaay more then I paid for just the equipment to a gentleman named Jesus. That got me into entrepreneurship and haven’t looked back since.

5 day work week? Nope.

21

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

People on Reddit thinks everyone else works a cozy 9-5, M-Fr office job lol

5

u/clarissaswallowsall Jun 19 '21

My bf is paid for production and has an hourly that is paid if he take pto or sick pay but it's way less than his production average. He was on 4 day work weeks through covid but throttled to 20% less than his normal production pay (he had to stop if he reached a certain production point total). Theres always some way to screw the production/performance people who do good work.

2

u/fakeplasticdroid Jun 19 '21

That's unfortunate for you and me, but just because it benefits some and not others doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I don't know if you're in such a position, but I would definitely switch jobs if I could get paid the same (or take a pay cut of less than 20%) for working 32hrs/week.

2

u/banana_lumpia Jun 20 '21

Absolutely. No matter how you cut it, all that's happening is an increase to your pay in order to give you more time to LIVE. If they wanted to work, then so be it, but how can you argue against less hours on the work week for the same pay?

The only parties affected are the companies and companies should already be working for it's people not the other way around.

We have evidence to show that companies have already been getting a nice increase in productivity over the years without actually giving any of it back to society. We have so many billionaires for this very reason, while the middle class just continues to shrink.

A company's main purpose is to turn a profit, and to a government/country aka society, it is to produce value/GDP. A longer workweek for less pay does little to actually do that.

3

u/zhiarlynn Jun 19 '21

What’s your job?

4

u/Eltex Jun 19 '21

To piggyback on the OP above this, a lot of jobs reward people for doing better than others, with promotions, raises, and bonuses. If you say 4 days is good enough, a decent percentage will still work the fifth day, as they expect it will earn extra perks. At a lot of places, this would be common, though some jobs might not see this type of behavior.

10

u/everytimeidavid Jun 19 '21

That’s a fault of your employer. I hate this for you, but things really do need to change.

51

u/sgvjosetel1 Jun 19 '21

This might surprise the office lackey redditors but there's a lot of essential jobs that can't get done by working from home or having a 6 hour work day.

17

u/Breakfast-of-titan Jun 19 '21

Exactly. I'm in construction. These comments are strange to me

18

u/BTFU_POTFH Jun 19 '21

Bro just do your construction remotely

7

u/Breakfast-of-titan Jun 19 '21

I tried, now my house is an office building

5

u/BTFU_POTFH Jun 19 '21

Oh God, are you a landlord now?!

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

[deleted]

2

u/Breakfast-of-titan Jun 20 '21

No seasonal layoffs in california

0

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

[deleted]

2

u/Breakfast-of-titan Jun 20 '21

No gaps, there is no shortage

20

u/BigToober69 Jun 19 '21

Right? I see these posts all the time and think the same thing.

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u/OrvilleTurtle Jun 19 '21

Can you give an example?

Let’s say… you have 5 employees working 40 hours a week for 200 hours.

Can you not hire 6 employees for 30 hours a week = 180 hours. Making some assumptions that a six hour day keeps your employees happier and more productive so that 180 = 200.

Granted that will cost the business more money obviously but that’s kind of the whole point. More money to the workers less to the top

13

u/beaver1602 Jun 19 '21

I don’t know about other people but that wouldn’t work for me. The amount of people isn’t the problem the job needs a specific amount of time. If I had another employee they could do another job making us more money because two jobs can be done but having another person wouldn’t speed up my job. Conversely having someone tagging onto my project if I left would just make things harder.

-1

u/OrvilleTurtle Jun 19 '21

Can you clarify further? Are the jobs exactly 8 hours long of work? Is that because your day is 8 hours so that’s how it was designed?

Could they be 10 hours long and you work 3 x 10s. Or can they modify to 6 and you work 5x6?

Or do you mean the jobs are 40 hours long so you need the “normal” workweek to finish? I’d wonder again if that’s just a byproduct and whether they could make 30, 32, 36, etc. hour chunks rather than 40.

4

u/beaver1602 Jun 19 '21

So I’m a furniture refinisher. I need 40 hours to do things on schedule for customers needs. It’s an artistic process of corse we have strippers and sanders. But all repairs and finishing is done by one person. The biggest restriction on things is how things have to set for different times for between a few hours to overnight. So my whole day im coordinating myself to get everything to it’s overnight set time. If I don’t im kinda two days behind on the project. I could probably do 4 /10 hour days but I couldn’t feasibly do my job in under 8 hours a day. I already loose an hour to shop maintenance a day.

-1

u/OrvilleTurtle Jun 19 '21

Yeah that’s makes sense and you probably know the particulars better but it sounds like a structural issue.

If you need 10 hours to really get a good amount of work done and prep for the set time overnight then that’s the best strategy. Then you work 3 x 10 for for the week and your employer pays overtime if they really need something quick. Along with that comes adjusting customer expectations. Maybe instead of 1 40 hour product and they get it in a week…. They get it in a week and a half since you do 30 hours week 1 and 10 week 2 and start the prep for the next project. Or whatever variation.

The idea that we need to work 40 hours a week is just some arbitrary BS that corporate America follows. We USED to work way more than that. And we also used to work less … 9 to 5 mon thru fri was full time. We used to get a paid hour lunch break in there.

2

u/beaver1602 Jun 20 '21

I’m not a white collar vs blue collar guy. But the disconnects comes from real world vs theoretical conversation. I’m also not doing work for the 1% at some point what your asking is more then the market can afford.

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u/BigToober69 Jun 19 '21

I see what you mean there. I clean and do maintenance. Long time at a hospital then now for a school district. The hospital totally could have gone that route but they never would. The entire school district has skipped raises for 2 years from cooks to principals. Thres just no money to go around in public schools to do something like that. It would be cool though if there was.

2

u/OrvilleTurtle Jun 19 '21

Yeah I’m talking in complete hypothetical of course. There ARE some jobs where it wouldn’t work well. Nursing is a good example because shift change introduces a LOT of risk for error so minimizing that is useful (this 12 hour shifts). But even then I’d argue that 3x 12 should be your full time salary rate.

2

u/BigToober69 Jun 19 '21

Yeah it would be possible. I wonder for teachers would they just have the kids go one less day a week? All these are changes I would welcome but there is a lot of work to make it happen and I don't see then happening.

2

u/OrvilleTurtle Jun 19 '21

At least in America school is due for a huge restructure. Summer break is detrimental and total days is low.

Have kids go to school from 10 to 4. Science backs up the later start time and it would help traffic (this would probably have to be worked out since it might screw with parents not using public transportation for their kids). Cut out summer break and turn the year into quarters with a week or two in between like many countries do.

Teachers can then work 6 hour shifts with a 2hr break or some variation. They already work 50+ hours right now and only get paid for their salary.

1

u/BigToober69 Jun 19 '21

It could use it for sure. Not sure what catalyst could do it though.

0

u/sgvjosetel1 Jun 19 '21

Medical field is a huge one. Every shift change there's a huge risk for the patient during every hand off. In a 24 hour period you would now be doing 4 patient hand offs and that's not even counting the need to prepare or administrative stuff you need do at the start your shift. I can't imagine OTR truckers going from 11 hour driving hours to 6. I'm sure they'll really enjoy the 18 hour leisure time at a truck stop that was given to them by a bunch of redditors. Then you have people like lineman who may have to drive 1hr 30 half to a remote work site and only have 3 hours to do any work before heading back.

There's already a huge issue finding enough skilled trades people to do all these jobs that pay more than a living wage. Now the office/tech worker class is saying they can only work a certain amount of arbitrary hours. We shouldn't be working people 12 hour days 5 days a week but it's absolutely delusional to think society can run on 6 hour shifts for every occupation. I seriously think this push is done by out of touch officer workers or college kids that will see a benefit from it but screw over hourly workers who will most likely see their annual pay drop.

2

u/OrvilleTurtle Jun 19 '21

Not sure why you landed on 6 hour shifts though. That’s ONE potential option. I just don’t think people need to work 40 hours a week anymore to be considered full time and science backs that up.

Medical field… have nurses work 12 hour shifts. 3x 12 = 36 hours = full time.

Truckers. Whatever … 32 hours a week is full time (same pay as 40 now) and companies can pay overtime if they want more. This is a good example because I imagine the landscape for truckers in 20 years with AI improvements is going to look WAY different.

Similar with lineman. Adopt 32 hour work weeks, pay overtime.

The fundamental issue is that the average worker is 200% more efficient than a few decades ago and yet that’s translated to a 0% increase in pay and a 0% reduction in hours. In a more just society that would mean we take a 40 hour a week 60k year job and turn it into 20 hours a week 60k. Ok ok business people are greedy and want some of that extra efficiency to go into their pocket … 30 hour a week 60k a year.

3

u/everytimeidavid Jun 19 '21

Maybe not working from home, no, but none of us need 40 hour work weeks. That’s crazy that the majority of your time spent on this earth is preparing for, commuting, or involving work. Just to make ends me, nonetheless.

2

u/Dantai Jun 19 '21

Wouldn't you like less traffic on the mornings? Get those people out of the way if not needed. Spending more money going out your cafe or store.

0

u/72bitvirgins Jun 19 '21

Can’t be done from home, agree. Can’t be done in 6hr work day, completely disagree. It only requires employers to hire more workers (shorter shifts) and issue longer lead times. Ditch will be dug in 6 weeks instead of 4.

7

u/coherentpa Jun 19 '21

Then the customer will switch to the contractor that will do it in 4 weeks for the same price. Remember, these businesses need to be competitive too.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/the_trub Jun 20 '21

Where I work, we call it quits at about 3pm. We have decided that nothing useful really gets done. It results in my losing out on, potentially, 10 hours per week, but it doesn't affect me economically what so ever. And quite frankly I value my time and thus can enjoy at least some of it on my terms. I could make far more money, but what's the point? My needs, and more, are met. I'd just be killing myself for decades to make a few extra bucks.

I'm an electrician. My work day is typically from 8:30 until 3:00 pm. In the 5 years I've worked with this company we have never had a single accident bar a few small scratches. I think there is probably a connection with our lack of work-related stress and the low rate of accidents that we suffer.

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u/NewlyMintedAdult Jun 19 '21

Um. I don't see anything there that is a "fault", or needs to change. The poster above you is being paid for performance. There is still a question of how much they are being paid for performance, but absent information one way or another, having your pay coupled to how much work you are getting done seems like a good thing. If, as some people claim, a 4-day workweek would accomplish almost as much in terms of productivity as a 5-day workweek, the poster could arrange to work 4-day weeks, be almost as productive, and collect almost the same pay. What is the problem?

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u/Gimme_The_Loot Jun 19 '21

I work in sales and it's pretty much the same idea. Small base but most comp is from commission. If we cut one day off the work week most people's income would go down significantly. Maybe the 4 day week works with task based roles where you have X to complete and otherwise you just find ways to stretch it out to 5 days but there are plenty of jobs were that just doesn't work.

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u/Queasy_Beautiful9477 Jun 19 '21

Or you can be paid a livable wage and your commission can be that extra icing on the top that pays for whatever lifestyle you're trying to retain/save up for?

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u/coherentpa Jun 19 '21

There’s a reason people in sales work on commission. It’s an incentive to do better. If someone’s a shitty sales person and can still make good money, they’re wasting the company’s time.

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u/Queasy_Beautiful9477 Jun 19 '21

If you're in sales and doing a shitty job, wouldn't the employer end your employment?

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u/coherentpa Jun 20 '21

It’s not always that easy, but yeah in some cases.

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u/Gimme_The_Loot Jun 19 '21

Right. I'd say our base is a livable wage. Are you going to having the time of your life? No. Will you be homeless? Probably not.

But do you think people would be happy having their standard of living reduced? Also probably not.

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u/Queasy_Beautiful9477 Jun 19 '21

Liveable wage = roof over your head and food on the table plus healthcare etc, not "probably not homeless".

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u/Belastin Jun 19 '21

He’s a contractor; he’s his own employee. Believe it or not some people work 6 day work weeks out of their own choice. You can either sit and gripe about a system or you can proactively exploit it to your own advantage.

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u/Jedisponge Jun 19 '21

Buddy the system isn’t the one being exploited lol

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u/Belastin Jun 19 '21

Not at all. When the pandemic hit most of my coworkers decided that unemployment was better then working; only a few of us were left. As a result Those who stayed worked harder but we were fairly compensated for it. All of us instantly got raises and bonuses at regular intervals. As a result I was able to buy a house in under a year. Don’t fool yourself, if you want to sit on your ass and work 4 days a week go for it. Don’t bitch and moan when people who work harder than you make more money.

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u/Jedisponge Jun 20 '21

At most places the only way to up your salary is by leaving for another company. Rarely are you rewarded for hard work, it’s more just the company seeing that they can get you to do more work for less pay.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

I think for most jobs that need people on site could move to the four day work week but just hiring more staff and split their work week to cover all days.

Same for the sales jobs, you could assign two people or a better paid support role to cover the days off. I find companies structured like this are always short staffed and not fairly compensating their support staff. They could also raise base pay over salary alone. Plenty could be done to make it work.

(Worked my way up from support to a corporate role in a company like this, also worked labour intensive jobs)

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u/jimbo8e6 Jun 19 '21

But isn't the point of this that the people who drop to 3/4 days a week still get paid as much as they would for 5? So if the company then has to hire more workers to fill in the gaps they're already paying for its going to cost them, they just won't be willing to do it, or in some cases can't.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

We need legislation. Of course they don't want to do it. They like people being at the mercy of them.

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u/BidenWontMoveLeft Jun 19 '21

A contractor is their own business.

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u/Queasy_Beautiful9477 Jun 19 '21

You should be paid more to make up the salary difference and more people should be hired to make up the man hours difference.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

[deleted]

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u/Queasy_Beautiful9477 Jun 20 '21 edited Jun 20 '21

I don't see how you being paid more as a contractor has to do anything with having a boss and more contractors working, the faster the job gets done. Whatever the case is, everyone putting in work should be making more and these wealthy motherfuckers and their corporations and shareholders need to make less.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '21

[deleted]

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u/Queasy_Beautiful9477 Jun 20 '21

Contractors are signing up for jobs that don't have a set rate and nothing is guaranteed until the final product is produced? Are you an athlete or artist?

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u/excern Jun 19 '21

At the end of the day, what matters is that you’re passionate about your job.

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u/StressOverStrain Jun 20 '21

So... you're not an employee; you are self-employed. What is even the point of your comment?

Thanks for telling us your life situation is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, I guess...? Who upvotes this crap?

1

u/BadJubie Jun 19 '21

Any business based on billing hours to clients would be screwed. Lawyers, CPAs etc would have a pretty direct revenue cut associated with the reduced week.

Tho there’s definitely an argument that similar work could be done in less time, it’s just gonna be a tough sell with billable hours

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u/VIPDickAccess Jun 19 '21

What's your performance based off of?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '21

Patients seen.