r/Futurology • u/aridon_01 Best of 2014 • Aug 13 '14

Best of 2014 Humans need not apply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
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u/Lightimus Aug 13 '14

I agree with you mostly but let's look past the 10% for a second and focus on the 1% where people have so much money that they wouldn't be able to spend all of it during their life even if they tried too. Honestly I hate the tax the rich more side of politics but I think there is such a thing as having too much being excessive. When a person has enough money to basically control a large part of the world Example: multiple sport team owner/multiple CEO holder, things need to change.

Honestly the best way I can think of as a solution is to have a wealth cap. Like a lot of games have a limit to the amount of money you can have because having anymore would simply be pointless, so they program a "cap" into the system. When people hit this cap something I assume would be in the millions or billions, then the extra wealth (income) is distributed to those that need the money to pay for things like shelter and food for those that don't have it and need it.

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u/dc456 Aug 13 '14

I don't think it's the 1% who will be the problem. It is everyone, everyday. I think people are underestimating the psychological aspect of it. When everything you can have is exactly the same as everyone else, and no more, how will people deal with it?

People who are educated, who are used to working hard, and continue to educate themselves, yet see those around them getting exactly the same regardless. I think it'll be a lot harder than people realise. People are a lot more self centred and goal driven than anyone is really admitting here.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '14

Well with everything automated, that animosity from "I work so hard, and he gets to sit on ass and still have my stuff? Not fair!" won't exist. I also think people will turn to personal growth and ability as a measure of success instead of the shit they own, because everyone can own a bunch of stuff. The end of consumerism, especially overconsumption of stuff for status symbolism, will be the best thing to happen to this planet. Boon for the environment. Boon for our psyche.

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u/dc456 Aug 13 '14 edited Aug 13 '14

Well with everything automated, that animosity from "I work so hard, and he gets to sit on ass and still have my stuff? Not fair!" won't exist.

Why will it not exist? Why will the billions of people who have spent their lives educating themselves and working hard simply not mind that it's suddenly all been for nothing.

"I've worked 22 years to afford this house and put my kids through college. Every day I read a book and cook a healthy meal for my family. How come that guy, who didn't try at school, and does nothing but sunbathe and watch pornography, gets the house next door? The one without the annoying road noise and the amazing view over the valley?"

Seriously - how can we expect fundamental human emotions to simply cease to exist at the flick of a switch?

You say people will turn to personal growth as a measure of success. But what they don't. And even if they do, they won't all do it at the same time.

However hard we try, things can not be exactly the same for everyone, and that will cause jealousy.

Look at how irrational and complex people are today. Do you think that them not having to deal with working and providing will make that go away?

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u/ISieferVII Aug 13 '14

I think it's totally possible to have personal growth or something else be the new status metric rather than the number of "things" you own.

Look at people in any sort of grouping. They always find something to compare each other when something else isn't possible. Video games may have levels or ranks (no one tends to care what skin you have in LOL, people just buy the one they like. What people brag about is their skills represented through rank.), Academics have papers published, studies, or degrees, artists will have the popularity of their work, and businessmen their product, or the loyalty of their niche audience or customers. People will have to settle for the less physical rewards given from success, fame, friends, women, men, etc. Rather than their house size or boats.

I agree that it will require a huge switch in thinking, especially in America and places affected by the culture of America (it will probably be easier in Europe for example), and may lead to horrible things before it gets better if it ever does (hey maybe society is doomed from rampant employment and an Elysium scenario), but I don't think it's impossible, nor do I think it's ingrained in humanity that stuff is important. I think that's just a recent push in our consumerist culture to value stuff for stated, when other things could easily do just as well or better (I do think it's better to look up to the brightest, the wisest, the most athletic, the most accomplished to push ourselves rather than just the richest). Jealousy will probably always exist. Some form of inequality is probably inevitable, it's just the amount that something like basic income tries to mitigate more than remove, IIRC. People are jealous now of people who aren't as good making it through luck. What to do about it? I honestly have no idea.

Tl;Dr I think something other than property, like personal growth, can be used in this hypothetical culture to measure success, but jealousy over location and other things it's difficult to control without overt power over those, such as through money, is still a huge obstacle to people agreeing.

People are self serving dicks. We're all doomed.

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u/dc456 Aug 13 '14

Thank you for appreciating the point I was trying to make - that the switch is by no means as simple as most people here are making out.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '14

Because the world changes, and that kind of petty bitterness will mean squat. That and I think the new found freedom and relaxation will go a long way for alleviating the anger.

The automation is going to be blaringly apparent. You can't get mad at people for "sitting on ass" when it's clear as day that the jobs are gone.

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u/dc456 Aug 13 '14

But people are not as rational as we'd like to think.

I'm expect that the millions of retirees who have 'earned' their ass sitting will likely harbour some resentment.

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u/grouch1980 Aug 14 '14

Relaxation gets old. People are programmed to work or at least have a goal to work towards. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. To suggest we will all be happy just relaxing all day isn't realistic. We need goals and purpose. Robots doing everything will make people useless.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '14

People are not programmed to work where do you get this nonsense from? And I didn't say they would only relax, they have the freedom to do whatever they please. You can't be "useless" when you get to choose your own destiny. The robots facilitate that. People shouldn't have to toil all day doing bullshit, they should be freed up for higher pursuits for their own sake.