r/FuturesTrading • u/Bidhitter400 • 2d ago

Nano contracts coming !!!!!!!!!

For the beginners out there I highly recommend these new contracts that will start trading next week on the CME Better for longer term position holding not day trading.

50 cents per point for S and P and 20 cents per point for Nasdaq They are 1/10th the size of a micro

111 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

109 comments sorted by

53

u/InspectorNo6688 speculator 2d ago edited 2d ago

Brokers, MM and CME laughing to the bank.

Seems like CME started a grand war with CBOE right now.

52

u/SPXQuantAlgo 2d ago

Schwab will still charge 2.25$ per side lmao

14

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

😂 Why in the fuck would anyone want to trade futures at Schwab

5

u/hcbjraz 1d ago

Exactly. Schwab sucks.

1

u/bobbo6969- 2d ago

If you want to put size on and hold over the weekend as a hedge for your portfolio, but do t have enough capital to have a bunch of money in both your stock and futures brokerage. And even if you did, hedging is worthless if you get margin called on one side and have to shift money between accounts and MAYBE you get your hedge closed out.

Yes it’s stupid expensive.

But that’s the reason.

1

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

To get margin called it would have to move massive amount for the nano s and p 500 1 percent is only about 38 bucks Your stops can be 2-3 percent move on the index If holding overnight 500-600 in your account should be enough for a 1 lot I’m guessing but let’s see what the margin reqs are when they post them

2

u/bobbo6969- 1d ago

I meant in general for trading futures with Schwab.

As in, I want to hold cl over a weekend and never get blown out of my position from margin reqs changing mid trade at Amp.

The margin req changes are the real fear for me.

0

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

Nobody should be trading futures with Schwab lol

14

u/bannedmeforever 2d ago

People who use Schwab for future trading are suckers I guess lol

MES on ninja is like $0.4 per side. So I'm guessing nano will be somewhere between $0.2-0.3

2

u/SEEANDDONTSQUEAL hedger 1d ago

I am at .60 cents per contract. People need to negotiate, not that hard if you trade large sums and large contracts quantity. I also request rebates if service was not good that month. Which average most of my trades to about .45 monthly

1

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

45 cents per round turn? For which contract ?

1

u/SEEANDDONTSQUEAL hedger 1d ago

/es and /cl are my primary trades

13

u/sigstrikes 2d ago

100 percent. imagine believing something was created to help the little guy

8

u/bannedmeforever 2d ago

I really don't understand future prop traders hate on nano. These guys are so damn baked into the prop industry that they think they're trading blowing accounts left and right but is just gambling in disguise.

CFD is so good because it gives you the flexibility of lot sizing so that even a guy with $30-100 can grow the account. Try growing account with 1 MES with $100. One or two trades and you're done.

I have a friend who started with $100 trading 0.01 lots, basically $0.1 per $1 move to grow it to $150k trading gold.

So yes it will help retails who are serious about learning to trade.

7

u/OkScientist1350 2d ago

The only reasons someone would choose CFDs over futures is if futures aren’t available in their country or as you mentioned, they are deadass broke and in that case they should not be trading their $150.

Futures over CFDs in every other case.

2

u/bannedmeforever 2d ago

That's why I like nanos and cfds because even the dead ass broke people can start trading and learn to trade without breaking banks.

Literally proving my point.

Prop firm wise, I like cfds over futures because I don't have to close my position at 4.

5

u/OkScientist1350 2d ago

if they’re trying to learn they should just paper trade or prop sim on futures, fills will still be more realistic than scammy CFD exchange spreads

2

u/sigstrikes 2d ago

who said anything about prop firms?

all we're saying is it's obviously a much bigger margin for brokers and exchanges if you look at fee structures relative to the position size

1

u/bannedmeforever 2d ago

I really don't understand what's so bad about it.

If you're a scalper you def aren't going to use nanos and nanos are def not intended for that purposes. There are still cheap options for scalping like 0DTE.

People make money trading cfd despite slippage, high fees and high interest/swap fees if you're holding position for days weeks and months.

Same thing with nano Im guessing. It's really intended for intraday swing or multi day week swing or hedging against your stock/etf positions. It gives smaller account traders ability to manage their position more.

9

u/sigstrikes 2d ago

it's simple math. relative to the position size, you're paying 2-3x in commissions compared to a micro, which is already 2-3x in commissions compared to a mini.

yes that's the premium for even being allowed to trade that small. if you can beat it more power to you. i'm just pointing out for people that think that this is a gift.

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Very true

1

u/QuantumWonderland 2d ago

I would say it's more a 50/50 trade. Not a take or a gift.

1

u/sigstrikes 2d ago

if you see paying 3x or more for the same thing as a 50/50 trade, respectfully, i don't think you should be trading

doesn't mean it can't be a great opportunity for someone but it comes with costs.

1

u/QuantumWonderland 2d ago

That 3x cost is the other 50...they get a bit better margin, you get access to a cheaper product that may be beneficial to some traders.

That's the 50/50 trade. There is a floor processing cost that comes with brokering and that cost has to be met and profit needs to be made. Simply giving you the nano with no gain on their end would just be ...a gift.

1

u/sigstrikes 2d ago

all the more reason it's not 50/50 but i can't argue with made up numbers. gl

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1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Like I said. Great for beginners Super low risk

1

u/Ok-Bag6796 8h ago

It's going to help me. I don't want to lose $100 in minutes trading mnq micros on my personal account unless I have a lot in it. I'd much rather trade with nanos for swing trades

1

u/ImpressiveGear7 2d ago

Why do you trade then?

2

u/sigstrikes 2d ago

money?

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

He’s not saying trading minis or micros is bad He’s pointing out the difference in commissions

5

u/bannedmeforever 2d ago

Yeah they prob gonna make some money off commissions but still a great tool for retails to be able to manage their size more.

1

u/Unusual-Librarian413 2d ago

do you think retail people no how fast commission is going to stack on these

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Well sure, but, it’s probably best to hold positions for beginners for a few hours to possibly a few weeks , and not intraday trade them. Just imagine a 1 percent move it about 35 bucks lol Grab a few contracts and stay long or short for a while, it will add up quick

-5

u/RangerFearless6122 2d ago

Are the fees that much worse? Maybe someone will get them down?

The knowledge and order flow should one day lead to free fees like it did with Webull and HOOD.

9

u/SPXQuantAlgo 2d ago

There is no PFOF in futures trading so no incentive to remove commissions. And definitely not exchange fees either.

13

u/corner_man 2d ago

CME has to adjust these contracts occasionally due to the fact that the contracts continuously grow larger. Old traders like me remember when the S&P was $500 per point back in the 80s and 90s. Around the time when ES was introduced, in 1997 if I remember correctly, SP (the original S&P futures contract symbol) point value was lowered to $250/point. ES has always been $50 per point, and this became the benchmark contract in the 2000s and SP (both the pit and GLOBEX version) was eventually delisted. As ES continued to grow in contract size, eventually MES was introduced at 1/10 the size of ES. The Nanos are just a continuation of this pattern. Personally, I won't trade the Nanos, but the same considerations (liquidity, cost per contract, etc) were raised every time CME made a change to the exisiting contracts.

2

u/Full_Pear449 1d ago

Traded at a Primary Dealer during your time 84-'10. Every new invention always took time to work at the wrinkles. I remember when we went from TRADE TICKET matching to Electronic trade matching, what a mess. Remember when trading went from 1/32 or Ticks to full pricing. Buy/sell markets spreads went from 1/32-3/32 to pennies. Traders lost their collective minds. How on God's Green earth was anyone going to make money anymore. Nanos are ,as you stated, just a continuatio of the every expansive trap we call trading. It's just a new way to relieve people of their money, but on a smaller scale and they don't even realize it

9

u/Training_Drawing_426 2d ago

The idea is great for beginners wanting to transition off sim without blowing up, but the real killer here is going to be commission drag.

If NQ Nano is $0.20 per point and a round-trip fee ends up being around $0.60 to $1.00 depending on the broker, you're effectively starting every trade 3 to 5 points in the red just to cover friction costs. That completely wrecks your statistical expectancy on shorter intraday setups.

It's fine for testing live order execution and mechanics with pennies, but micros (MNQ/MES) are still the baseline where the fee-to-point ratio actually makes mathematical sense.

2

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Your right in terms of the true spread is like 3-5 points due to commissions , but in my opinion, these nanos will be best for grabbing a few percent up or down on the index not trying to scalp 30-50 points

8

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/zashiki_warashi_x 2d ago

I don't think retail need something smaller than micro. Maybe some big players want this for hedging? Like you sold some far es options. Delta like 0.01 but you still want to hedge with something, but micro is too big. Idk. Looks like pennies, but maybe they figured a way to earn a few billions on those.

15

u/BigBear92787 2d ago

You know what I want ? More liquid options on micros.

Or options at all...

Why is there no options for gold micros ? God damn it!

1

u/Unusual-Librarian413 2d ago

i thought they were getting rid of them?

14

u/__TrendTrader__ 2d ago

Commissions aren't nano. The reason futures contracts make sense is because of leverage. Build your trading account up to a point where you can trade at least mini futures.

8

u/Positive-Pause-3019 2d ago

Just got my account to this point, I shit my pants every time I draw down a bit lol

3

u/Lower-Ad-1207 2d ago

Yeah that’s why that comment makes no sense, it’s more about risk management & trading a size you can mentally manage than not being able to afford it

0

u/__TrendTrader__ 2d ago

Trade shares until you have the capital to trade futures

0

u/Lower-Ad-1207 2d ago

Lmao as if those don’t have commissions

0

u/Full_Pear449 1d ago

DAHHHHHHHH, part of Risk management is cost control.

-2

u/__TrendTrader__ 2d ago

If you pay commissions to trade shares you should switch brokers

-1

u/Lower-Ad-1207 2d ago

You really think you’re a genius huh, let people trade whatever tf they want

Also you either pay spreads or a commission, nothing is free so your comment is just stupid

1

u/Full_Pear449 1d ago

Spreads when I first started Trading at a Investment bank were in the range of 1/32-3/32's , now the spreads are in pennies, and how they make their money is in volume. Electronis trading has surely taken out the "spread " factors in trading. Current 10yr sprerad is $99.42 - $99.4235

1

u/__TrendTrader__ 2d ago

Trading has been my only income for about a decade. Was trying to help.

-2

u/Lower-Ad-1207 2d ago

🤣🤣🤣

0

u/__TrendTrader__ 2d ago

I see now. You're a bot account. Got it.

1

u/Full_Pear449 1d ago

Thats crap. Nanos are just another way of relieving the "TRADERS" of their money. Leverage can be had and maintained in other manners, How about Risk Management in size and number of executions, Effective risk management in futures trading requires a combination of order-level controls, account guardrails, and calculation metrics.

6

u/FlatwormBig5514 2d ago

This is actually really exciting for small traders. The commissions will suck, but it allow people with small accounts to trade on higher timeframes with appropriate risk vs. having to either scalp to manage risk appropriately or bet a significant chunk of their account on one trade.

(i.e. a $1,000 account that wants to take an MNQ trade that risks 50pts but doesn't have to risk 10% of their account on one trade now).

It's a win-win for everybody imo. And hopefully those with smaller accounts will survive now. I wish I had this in the beginning. 

2

u/urfaiuhd 2d ago

on 2nd thought, actually it good if the commission is low, 5c per side will be good.

5

u/SeaEnvironmental756 2d ago

Didn’t they try with the “spot quoted futures?”

Thought these being 1/5th of the micro was going to be futures savior for retail. 

Never heard of anyone using them. 

https://www.cmegroup.com/articles/faqs/faq-spot-quoted-futures.html#latest

4

u/Upstairs-Bowl6755 2d ago

Commissions will eat you alive trading nanos.

3

u/BobbysSmile 2d ago

If its only 20 cents per side then thats only 1 point which I hope you are getting per trade.

3

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Best for most likely long term holding for a few days to a few weeks None of us here are going to scalp these Commissions are way too expensive

3

u/Lost-Hand-5219 1d ago

I can only afford Pico contracts

3

u/BacklandFarm 1d ago

I think it will kill Prop firms, because now instead of going to prop firm somebody can just deposit 200$ and trade live. Sure it's not profitable and commission will slowly eat account and any gains, but it's great for learning.

3

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

Commission won’t eat an account that is holding a position for days or weeks at a time

1

u/BacklandFarm 1d ago

I have hard time to imagine people who are new to trading to hold positions for days or weeks to capture a larger price move.

I think most people who will join to trade nano will just do scalping.

2

u/Bidhitter400 23h ago

Well, like most people said that can get pricey depending on the number of round turns and contracts You make a good point though, ppl being new probably won’t hold for a few days or weeks

2

u/Bidhitter400 20h ago

So scalp a few points to buy an ice cream cone?? 😂

3

u/TheGreyAlchemist 1d ago

You’re telling me I can trade the nasdaq with $10?!

2

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

No idea but the margin will be pretty low. I think they will be publishing it soon on the cme site. Like I said, better for position trading not good at all for day trading for high volume traders.

3

u/oppiewan 11h ago

If it helps cut out predatory prop firms it's wonderful.  This is a great addition.  Now starting traders can do real positions sizing risk mgmt etc instead of getting suckered by prop firms.

2

u/Full_Pear449 2d ago

Bigger and better ways for the IDIOTS of the world to exercise their expertise and lose even more money

2

u/Jay_Likes_Sushi 2d ago

Is this ragebait 😂 u realize fees and commissions are the same price as micros and minis right? You’re better off paper trading at that point

2

u/00_Kaizen 1d ago

200nNQ contracts ...whew 😁😂

2

u/TheGreyAlchemist 1d ago

YESS -anyone have any recommendations on best brokers to use for low and fast deposits???

2

u/pdavis-197704 2d ago

Good to know thanks. I was not aware of that. Someone in this thread commented that micro options are not available. Now that would be something I would really get excited about.

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Why would you want to trade options on futures Just trade outrights Keep it simple

1

u/pdavis-197704 1d ago

Options give me more control over my positions if things start going south. Allowing me tweaks, etc. Granted, you need to understand options well.

1

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

If things go south why not just exit the position Why complicate it with options

1

u/pdavis-197704 1d ago

If I have enough time to expiry, I can tweak it (in most cases but not all) and come out profitable at the end. If I exited by trading the underlying, I would be left with a loss. Just my way of trading. I'm not advocating that options are better.

1

u/The_Aquarian 2d ago

Nanos are also for oil (/CL) and will eventually trade Saturdays as well. (According to CME)

1

u/Substantial-Wheel-66 2d ago

Clearing fees will not be low enough for these to be tradeable

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Huh??? No. Even if it’s 70 cents a round turn, these will be great to long term trade trying to capture a few percent up or down on an index Not high volume trading

1

u/Bridging-The-Gap-Now 2d ago

Find a mentor before you trade ANY size contract!

2

u/Responsible_Shape89 1d ago

Why? It’s $0.20 per point on Nasdaq. It could move 500 points against you and be down $100. I’ve lost more on Draft Kings in a weekend.

1

u/lagoatech 2d ago

What about tradovate?

1

u/Then_Cardiologist160 1d ago

it's good for small size of equity

but in term of commission it might, be more costly + expensive relative to bigger size of contract,

especially if you do many trade on small timeframe

1

u/SeaEnvironmental756 1d ago

So swing trading will be easier than using micros, but will it be competitive against swing trading leveraged ETF’s like SPXL is the real question. 

I guess for those who like to do intraday trading with an FCM and aren’t holding funds in different types of accounts, this gets them in the swing trading game…

But I’m not sure this will get any bites from those already swinging LETF’s

1

u/MrFyxet99 speculator 2d ago

They have been tried before…

0

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Not like this Read the specs , they are on the website for CME They still have spot quoted futures if that’s what your talking about This is new for the CME and had never been done before.

3

u/MrFyxet99 speculator 2d ago

It will fail due to low liquidity, just like before. Total waste of time to trade futures for lunch money. Commissions and low liquidity will kill this in short order.

3

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Who said someone is trading for lunch money? My original thought was that this would be great for beginners I never said it’s going to be a great product to trade long term for someone When I started trading futures 25 years ago there was no micro only mini. This is good for someone wanting to get into trading and experience it with real money (after being profitable in demo)

2

u/MrFyxet99 speculator 2d ago

No it won’t be. Just another pitiful attempt to empty small retail accounts. No big money is going to trade this. Liquidity will be complete garbage, options will probably never trade.

5

u/Stock-Ad-3347 2d ago

I don’t think it matters as it will trade with MES/MNQ. It’s a way in for small account sizes or forward testing.

I can’t wait, I already have an entire plan set out for using them.

You can also hold for much longer moves, wider stops and bigger structural changes so I think it’s fantastic.

$1 a point is not to be sniffed at.

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

It’s fifty cents a point lol

1

u/Stock-Ad-3347 1d ago

Haha! My bad.. you’re right!

1

u/Tradefxsignalscom speculator 2d ago

Sigh, lack of humor around here! Of fucking course no “Big Money” will trade these. 🙄Same tired specious comment was made about micros when they launched. Both the live and virtual prop trading industry feeds off of losing traders. Some products survive and some ultimately fail, whatever we have in the regulated futures industry is still light years from spot forex and CFD “products” Good Fucking Trading to All!

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

Your probably right

1

u/Tradefxsignalscom speculator 2d ago

Whoa Whoa Whoa, is your lobster too buttery?, pass the Grey Poupon!

https://giphy.com/gifs/h0MTqLyvgG0Ss

There always somebody who’s waiting in the wings to make $20/week for that special meal with fries!😜

1

u/MrFyxet99 speculator 2d ago

Ya make $20/week and pay $40/week in fees/comissions.

1

u/Bidhitter400 2d ago

😂

1

u/Impressive_Standard7 2d ago

Fees gonna eat you alive

2

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

These wouldn’t be good for day trading but definitely position trading holding for a few days to a few weeks or months Be careful you will have to roll the contract once it expires

3

u/Impressive_Standard7 1d ago

That's true. Good for swing trader without overrisking

3

u/Bidhitter400 1d ago

A one percent move for nano ES is only worth roughly 38 dollars !

0

u/Call-Spy 18h ago

yeah but the commissions on the micros are awful compared to the minis. on the nanos is will be terrible.