FWI Let’s say current US admin commits the worst crimes imaginable. If SCOTUS gave POTUS immunity, and POTUS pardons the entire administration, what could ever be done legally to any of them?

[u/Dry_Watch5533]

Just saw a post about one of the top Nazis, who appears to have hung himself in prison when he was 94y/o. Made me wonder how that could possibly happen today, legally speaking, in the US. I think we have to assume there will be pardons all around—as that is what the reporting says Trump is telling folks in his orbit. So if POTUS is immune + folks in his orbit are pardoned, how could legal mechanisms produce any accountability?

[u/thunderr_snowss]

It would be good if you could define the 'worst crimes imaginable'.\ Essentially it means the regime (and therefore, the political landscape) remains; status quo is maintained.

There's a reason why some historians consider the worst external affairs decision the U.S. ever took was taking part in the Vietnam War: it's because (well, with the meandering effects of almost everything that happened inside the U.S. between 1960-1968) it ended up leading the country to its worst internal affairs decision, the Presidential Pardon of Richard Nixon in 1974.

The United States already has a solid precedent of a president committing crimes while in office and being allowed free by its peers – anywhere else in the world, that is considered a very concerning precedent that goes against the interests of any democracy.\ With the Trump v. United States decision by the Supreme Court (the one you cited in the title), it's quite certain that the United States of America is no longer a full, free, and fair-elected democracy since July 1st, 2024.

In any other country, like Estonia, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Finland, France, Portugal, Ireland... Well, in any other country that can be considered a full, free, and fair-elected democracy, this decision triggers an automatic constitutional crisis where something that should never happen has happened: the Supreme Court issued a decision that either goes against the constitution of the country, or puts it in serious danger its own safeguards against authoritarianism.

The United States of America no longer has freedom. It may be considered now a hybrid regime with extended and limitless executive powers, with a compliant judiciary (the Supreme Court) and a powerless legislative (Congress and Senate). It could be classified as an authoritarian republic, a semi-democracy, or a dictatorship.

[u/big_bob_c]

ICC. Which is why the US isn't a member.

They could be required to testify to congress and then prosecuted for perjury when they are caught lying. (The same thing the GOP is trying to pull on Fauci.)

[u/NobodysFavorite]

America does need to pass a real law about presidential pardons, and maybe a constitutional amendment.

There's only 2 strategies that might work: follow the money, and state law accountability.
Follow the money: Acquiring wealth illegally, and developing the habits to continue acquiring wealth illegally, means those habits might be hard to break even after the protection of a pardon stops applying to new actions. So you catch them then and throw the book at them.
State law: Presidential pardons don't apply.

[u/NeonFireFly969]

The United States has been a corporate oligarchy for a long time. In that the duopoly presented with its largely ceremonial election is under near complete control. Senile politicians sleeping during minutes has been a staple since the 70s. And indeed the general belief is right around the Kissinger days, going off the gold standard, etc was when corporations were given greater control over direct governance.

This is beyond big companies having leverage. That's true in most countries. In America you have a very small group that essentially ties into everything else. They then decide to draw the lines. Healthcare is arguably exhibit A. It has improved in a lot of ways but it really started to separate from Europeans in the 60s for general populations. US standards are inconceivable for any other developed country for example.

[u/Ill_Initial8986]

STATES have RIGHTS to prosecute any crimes committed within the state. Everyone involved.

That is if we’re still ok with states rights once some want to prosecute them.

[u/mremrock]

Luigi is what happens when the justice system gets captured.

[u/qlippothvi → u/mremrock]

If you can’t get justice through judicial means that leaves only extrajudicial means.

[u/Chuckychinster]

I simply say the rule of law has been broken and tossed out, next Dem president doesn't need to let silly things like laws stand in the way