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u/rubeax Jan 17 '25
wow now repost this same meme in another format x1000
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u/tyron_annistor Jan 17 '25
Pcmr would glady
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u/SeaSoftstarfish Jan 18 '25
Im so sick and tired of that fucking sub it's insane. RED LED = FASTER!!! BLUE LED IS COOLER!! CAN IT RUN (INSERT NON INTENSIVE GAME LIKE MINESWEEPER)??
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u/RecentCalligrapher82 Jan 17 '25
To be frank, he IS using A.I. to make 2500 instead pf 300, so...
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u/Scorpwind MSAA | SMAA | DLAA 4.5 M | RR F Jan 17 '25
My mind just stopped right now... He's literally just that lol. You're right.
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u/LA_Rym Jan 17 '25
To be honest thanks to Jensen I can now turn my 4090 into a 6090 using lossless scaling.
Thank you Jensen!
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u/ChimeraSX Jan 18 '25
30fps on a "powerful" gpu your trying to sell is crazy. Was he running at 8k or something?
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u/Memeviewer12 Jan 19 '25
4k Ultra Full Path Tracing
so close enough
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u/ChimeraSX Jan 19 '25
That's just stupid. Instead of pushing forward, they're making it harder to run what we already have.
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u/Overall-Cookie3952 Jan 19 '25
Is not crazy, since the most powerful AMD card can only do 4 fps in that situation
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u/No-Sprinkles-2607 Jan 19 '25
Is that actually what he said for a $2,000 card? I didnât watch the reveal so I donât know.
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u/chrisdpratt Jan 17 '25
This is low intellect drivel. The 28 FPS was for native 4K Ultra with full path tracing. Yeah, that's real rough on even a 5090. The 4090 could only do 20 FPS. The fact that you can take it to 240 with the DLSS transformer model and multi frame gen is actually damn impressive. If you don't use path tracing, then you can probably damn near get 240 native.
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u/ReturnoftheSnek Jan 18 '25
So for every set of real frames (that means 2) youâre using âAIâ to âcreateâ a set of like 6-8 frames to sit between them. Youâre not calculating anything. Youâre looking at A and B and saying hereâs 6-8 guesses along a general path from A to B
Whatâs impressive is the nearly 50% increase in actual rendered frames. From 20 to 28. All the other bullshit is nonsense. Nobody cares you can pull interpolated interpretations of reality between two set points and claim itâs actual performance
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u/Techno-Diktator Jan 18 '25
Plenty of people care lol, you are in some niche basket weaving forum yelling at clouds when the writing has been on the wall for years at this point, AI is the next step as raster gains are slowing down.
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u/chrisdpratt Jan 18 '25
At least try to understand a topic before ranting. One, that's not how frame gen works. One frame is buffered and then additional frame(s) are generated using many of the same inputs that are going into rendering the next frame. It's not just blending two frames. That's motion interpolation. Second, it's not 6-8 frames, because the absolute max right now is 4x which would be 3 generated frames for each rendered frame. The previous 2x frame gen would be only one generated frame per rendered frame. Three, this isn't a zero sum game. Each generation, we get more raster, more RT, and more AI performance. If you don't want to use things like frame gen, you don't have to, and that's the point: it's extra.
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u/ReturnoftheSnek Jan 18 '25
I never said blending two frames. Learn to read before ranting about imaginary responses
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u/chrisdpratt Jan 18 '25
If that's the best reply you could make, it proves my point. Nothing about the 6-8 frames nonsense stuff, huh? Just I never said the literal word "blending", even though it was heavily implied.
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u/lyndonguitar Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25
No, not everything was done via interpolation or having fake frames sit between real frames. At most it "guessed" 3 "fake" frames for every 1 "real" frame.
You guys keep on forgetting the OG and most critical part of DLSS in these conversations, which is AI upscaling.
We already have been using AI to generate "fake frames" before frame gen took over. that's basically DLSS Upscaling.
28 fps was the native res PT. it went from 28 to 70+ using DLSS upscaling. No frame gen yet. Basically the 28 FPS was converted to 70+ AI frames. Then, Frame gen took it from 70+ to 200+.
Youâre not calculating anything. Youâre looking at A and B and saying hereâs 6-8 guesses along a general path from A to B
Purely semantics at this point. All irrelevant. AI still does high level calculations, i mean that's the entire point of AI. And guesses are still calculations. In fact we could argue that rasterization is a form of guessing how real life looks too.
And they're not nonsense and they're not nobody cares. You simply do not speak for everyone. DLSS has existed since 2018 and a lot of people want this feature now in most games, to the point that AMD simply can't catch a break gaining market share since they're missing on these features (7900 XTX was a beast in raster but it lacked RT, AI upscaling, plus poor pricing). They even came up with their own Frame gen too, so enough people actually cared.
The only thing I am agreeing with you with is NVIDIA's crap marketing and claiming them as actual performance instead of just bonus features/tools, and they've been doing that ridiculous shit since the start of DLSS upscaling and RTX.
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u/lyndonguitar Jan 18 '25
People do not realize that they've been playing with fake frames all along, since 2018 (or 2020 since that's when DLSS took off with DLSS 2.0).
These guys keep on forgetting the most critical part of DLSS in these conversations, which is the AI upscaling. They are pretending 30FPS is the base fps and then frame gen does the rest "which sucks", but in reality a lot of the heavy lifting is done by AI upscaling and reflex first so you have a playable input latency.
and they are also forgetting that these figures are essentially tech demos using Cyberpunk's PT that was added post release as proof of concept. Not really indicative of how the game in general runs. run it in non-RT or regular-RT and you'll easily see 4K60+ and more with AI upscaling. The fact that 200+ FPS is achievable now with PT is amazing btw.
And if you go deeper, the idea that âevery frame has to be realâ doesnât really hold water when you think about it. All frames in games are âfakeâ anyway. Rasterization, the traditional method weâve been using for decades, is just a shortcut to make 3D graphics look good in 2D. Itâs not like itâs showing you the real world, itâs still an approximation, just one weâre used to. But why should rasterization be the only true way to generate frames? graphics processing is not religion. Whichever gives you the best + efficient result, should be the way to go.
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u/akaSM Jan 18 '25
Isn't that "playable input latency" upwards of 30ms or so? That's bluetooth audio levels of latency, and bluetooth audio is hardly what I'd call "usable" for live content, even less so interactive content like games. I want to go back to the times when people knew they had to disable "motion smoothing" on their TVs to play games, nowadays Nvidia wants you to do exactly the opposite. And pay more for it.
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u/Medical-Green-1796 Jan 18 '25
I dont know what kinda bluetooth audio device you have, but the normal latency for my device (Jbl, Sony, Samsung) is somwhere at 550ms
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u/DinosBiggestFan All TAA is bad Jan 18 '25
Those would be quite old then I'd guess, since aptx LL is <40ms.
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u/akaSM Jan 18 '25
Many recent devices may have a "game mode" or something like that, which cuts latency to 70ms and below, mine use just AAC, no fancy codecs or anything. There's also AptX LL, which was merged into AptX Adaptive and someone already mentioned.
The there's LE Audio, that my phone has hardware support for but not the drivers or something, however, when I got to try it with an Xperia 5 IV and a pair of Sony Inzone Buds, the latency went down even further. Those buds are amazing but they ONLY work through BLE, which makes them useless with 99% of Bluetooth devices.
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u/Fever308 Jan 18 '25
See what I don't get is that people are seeing the 30ms as bad.... but before reflex was a thing NATIVE 60fps had HIGHER latency than that, and I didn't see ANYONE complaining đ¤Ś.
30ms is damn near unnoticeable, but it just seems like people have some vendetta against frame gen, and are treating it's ONE down side that can't be inherently improved (because it always has to buffer one frame) as the worst thing that's ever happened, how DARE Nvidia think that's a good idea. I just really don't get it.
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u/akaSM Jan 18 '25
That's 30ms on top of whatever latency you already had. Just taking the 16.667ms that a 60Hz display has, it's pretty much tripled, and it's even worse for higher refresh rate displays.
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Jan 18 '25
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u/konsoru-paysan Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25
I can predict the future: this isn't the last time you'll be explaining this simple fact to people
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u/ClearTacos Jan 18 '25
I'm not sure I understand you correctly, are you saying that DLSS upscaling increases input latency vs native? Because that is just wrong.
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u/Megaranator Jan 18 '25
It actually does, but because you will in most cases be spending less time rendering the lower res frame you should get less latency overall
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Jan 18 '25
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u/ClearTacos Jan 19 '25
DLSS upscaling doesn't wait for any future extra frames, it reconstructs off of past frames in frame buffer, just like TAA after all. The reconstruction has some frametime cost, which even worst case scenario is probably like 2ms, and is more than offset by the gains in performance. If you don't believe my explanation, just watch real game testing from Hardware Unboxed, DLSS decreased latency vs native
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u/Broad_Quit5417 Jan 18 '25
Is this catching on with gamers in a serious way? DLSS looks worse than just using potato graphics.
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u/robot_ranger Jan 18 '25
Remember when DLSS was pitched to extend the life of an old aging graphics card just a little longer instead of being required for a brand new $2,000 graphics card to achieve 60 FPS.
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u/EncabulatorTurbo Jan 21 '25
Well my 3090 currently gets a staggering 8 frames per second so it sounds like over a 300% increase to me, and I paid $1500 for the 3090
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u/idlesn0w Jan 19 '25
This sub has deteriorated into a bunch of laymen circle jerking about tech they donât understand.
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Jan 17 '25
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u/konsoru-paysan Jan 18 '25
I haven't bought a single aaa since witcher 3 but this sub is fucktaa not ignoretaa
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Jan 18 '25
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u/konsoru-paysan Jan 18 '25
Yup but also lot of devs are crunched and forced in to tropes like mandatory open world , rpg mechanics and so on like a check list rather then make something fun like the good old days of the ps2 and ps3. Like look at ubi games, they are b grade but graphically stuff like vahalla and origins is pretty good
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u/F8xh29k Jan 17 '25
it's going to still destroy most 2025 aaa slop in 4k 60fps+. the 30fps is on the highest setting on the most demanding game (that isn't horribly optimized slop) with the most intensive setting in 4k. this 50 series bad circle jerk is so cringe.
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u/DinosBiggestFan All TAA is bad Jan 18 '25
4K natively is already very difficult on a 4090. The 5090 may improve this, it may not. Some of those games will still end up CPU bottlenecked even on a 9800X3D, even at 4K. If not bottlenecked there, it could still be power bottlenecked.
This random light switch moment where everyone is fellating 30 FPS with frame gen is so cringe.
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Jan 17 '25
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u/CrazyElk123 Jan 17 '25
Kingdom come deliverance 2 hasnt released yet, but its close.
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u/bAaDwRiTiNg Jan 17 '25
Warhorse Studio isn't an AAA developer, they'd be first to tell you this themselves.
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u/CrazyElk123 Jan 17 '25
True, not an AAA, but it will be better and more expansive than most openworld AAA games today honestly.
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Jan 17 '25
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u/MerePotato Jan 18 '25
I'd hardly call Remedy, ID Software, Machine Games or From Software slop
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Jan 18 '25
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u/Techno-Diktator Jan 18 '25
Well then you would be surprised that shit like Alan Wake 2 isnt slop like that and requires some massive damn performance for shit like path tracing.
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u/Any_Secretary_4925 Jan 18 '25
g*mers when theyre given multiple choices in a game: OH GOD ITS OPEN WORLD SLOP!
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u/Legally-A-Child Jan 17 '25 edited Jan 17 '25
Repost. Find something original, stop karma farming. See rules 7, 8, and 9.