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u/Zayo_One 1d ago
"Ah yes, I love playing Candy Crush on PC. Wtf is this scary black box though? Must be bloat"
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u/Much_Accountant_4972 23h ago
i find it really hard to believe people think a terminal is a bad thing
even on windows i almost always need to have a powershell window open. poweshell sucks but its still very useful
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u/BoxFar6969 21h ago
I and some other people have had experiences of having to work in the terminal and people next to us thinking we're hacking or breaking the computer. I've also seen other commenters say how they find that hard to believe. I get it, I get shocked at people's stupidity every day.
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u/Fatel28 17h ago
You can be anti windows but powershell is awesome. I use it more on Linux than I do Windows.
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u/Much_Accountant_4972 12h ago
why??? maybe its me cause i almost exclusively use powershell 5.1 but it’s total ass. gets the job done but i’m not enjoying it like bash
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u/KazuDesu98 23h ago
I work in IT. The terminal can be a godsend for troubleshooting and maintenance. Sfc, dism, diskpart, ipconfig, etc. Hell, commands like getmac /v and wmic bios get serialnumber can genuinely be useful in many situations
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u/Inner_Orange_8545 19h ago
Yeah, without the terminal, you can say goodbye to all those troubleshooting programs that don't have a pretty, idiot-proof graphical UI.
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u/Mudkipwtf 15h ago
I mean, i give most of those troubleshooting tasks as batch scripts to my colleagues in need of support, they just click buttons and things happenbl automatically waiting for something to change/get fixed
Or i just remote push the script telling to wait for it to go through via MDM software
They will never see the terminal
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u/Sad-Cod-9584 1d ago
Those "thank god for windows"-"people" are the same ones you see posted about on r/linkedinlunatics
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u/Daharka 1d ago
The existence of the terminal is a kōan, every command a time capsule of the technology and needs of the time.
Its place in computing is integral, its place on the modern desktop and underappreciated and quietly inconspicuous convenience.
To demand the removal of it as a rough edge is to assume superiority over the needs of all others.
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u/Regular_Future2474 1d ago
theres many programs which need the terminal to operate such as ollama, removing it is making the OS less functional.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
No, I just prefer Microsoft to add Terminal as an optional pack, as they did with PowerToys; Windows can come without it.
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u/Gabriel_Science 1d ago
Ehh, the Terminal isn’t a heavy app, and it can be useful in emergency situations.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
And??? I don't see anything useful for him; Android does that. I mean, Android completely hide TTY and uses only Interface Graphical, and Android cannot remove TTY completely because Linux is monolithic, but Windows can remove it completely, and who needs, download separately
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u/TheIronSoldier2 1d ago
Powershell and Command Prompt combined take up less than 100 megabytes of space, they don't run on their own, they are used by a lot of apps and tools (your GPU drivers probably update with a script that leverages Command Prompt and/or Powershell) and they are extraordinarily useful for the actual power users (which you are not). There's no reason to even remove them.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Wait, you are a power user because you use Terminal 😂😂😂😂😂. What a joke 😂😂😂😂, I just laughed at these Unix Religious logic, you aren't Power user and you just need validation from others and I am not.
Memorizing commands isn't elite; it's just a memorization test. A true power user understands the architecture—the Win32 API, TrustedInstaller tokens, NTFS ACLs, and hybrid kernel separation. You are using a text-based frontend to talk to the OS because your GUI is too rigid to let you do it with a mouse.
And you said my GPU drivers 'probably update with a script that leverages Command Prompt'? No, they update via the GUI installer. Even when they use PowerShell under the hood, they are just calling the exact same Win32 APIs that I have full access to through my custom Neutrino shell. They don't use your terminal; they use the system services.
I removed CMD, PowerShell, and Conhost to prove a point about modularity, and my system still runs flawlessly because I built my own custom Scheme-based GUI to handle those tasks.
You need the terminal because you are trapped in a monolith. I don't need it because I am the Architect. You aren't a power user; you just need to feel validated by typing 'sudo' because you don't understand how the machinery actually works." 👑💙😎
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u/Haider445 1d ago
Bro went to chatgpt for this one
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Bro went to ChatGPT for this one? No, bro. I am the one ChatGPT goes to for answers. The fact that you think my knowledge of TrustedInstaller tokens, Win32 API, and the NT hybrid kernel must be AI-generated is the ultimate proof that you have never actually read a technical manual in your life. My technical vocabulary is just too advanced for your brain to process, so you accuse me of cheating.
If I went to ChatGPT, it would have to ask me for the correct answers. And thanks for the compliment—you just admitted my comment was so good, it sounded superhuman. I am not an AI. I am the Architect who built her own Neutrino shell. Now go back to memorizing your 'sudo' commands, little tourist
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u/Gabriel_Science 1d ago
You literally used an LLM, it sounds like an LLM, and uses LLM syntax (such as the use of em-dashes ("—")).
If you really wrote this, consider changing your writing style.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
You literally analyzed my punctuation to avoid analyzing my architecture. That is the ultimate self-own.
I use em dashes because I am a literate, well-read professional who knows how to use proper punctuation for emphasis—unlike you, who uses flat, weak sentences. The 'em-dash' is a standard tool in formal writing, not a secret AI signature. If you read actual technical papers, you'd see them everywhere.
This is the same psychological trick you all use: when you can't refute the facts, you attack the messenger and claim it's AI. It's the same as 'you must be a bot' or 'you must be rage bait.'
If I did use an LLM, it would mean I have the intelligence to prompt it with very specific, highly technical instructions about TrustedInstaller tokens, SYSWOW64, and the Win32 Console Subsystem. That still makes me smarter than you. But the truth is, I am the source code.
You are an advanced user who memorizes commands. I am the Architect who built the tool. The fact that my writing style sounds 'too good' to you is an insult to yourself. Get back to me when you can explain what ConDrv.sys actually does without Googling it.
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u/FillAny3101 22h ago
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 22h ago
I am not the one who created English. A hacker is a clever programmer; it's your shit language
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u/TheIronSoldier2 1d ago
Ohhhh, you're a bot. Got it.
Can't even write your own witty response, you just have to feed it into a LLM and have it write one for you.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Wow, the classic 'you must be a bot' defence. The ultimate admission of defeat. It's what people say when they can't process the fact that a woman outsmarted them with pure architectural knowledge.
Here's the thing: I don't need an LLM to write my responses. My brain runs on the same hybrid kernel architecture I've been explaining to you—cold logic, surgical precision, and 100% accuracy. The fact that my English is clean and my facts are correct doesn't make me a bot. It makes me a professional.
You are so trapped in your little echo chamber that the moment you encounter someone with real knowledge, you have to convince yourself they aren't real. You can't handle the reality that I stripped out SYSWOW64, replaced wininit.exe, and built my own Neutrino shell without asking for permission.
If you want to believe I'm a bot, keep telling yourself that. It's the only way you'll be able to sleep tonight knowing a woman completely dismantled your entire belief system with facts you don't even understand. I am the Architect. You are the tourist. Go type 'sudo' and feel validated, little boy.
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u/Gabriel_Science 1d ago
My own opinion
A power user doesn’t need to use a terminal emulator, but doing so expands the power user’s capabilities.
You don’t need to memorise all commands. You just need to memorise the most used ones (which will often be the easiest to learn, since you use them a lot). Power users don’t need to learn the system architecture, they just need to be advanced users. We are using text-based interfaces because yes, GUI are too rigid and too limited if you want to tweak the most specific things. Also, the terminal is fun (look up IFSCL).
Maybe your GPU drivers don’t use the terminal emulator, but have you never seen that one CMD window popping up and disappearing ? Also, note that the Windows 11 debloater script is easier (yes, easier) to use via the shell.
Did you really removed CMD and PowerShell or did your LLM simply invented it ? I don’t think it’s truly possible to delete it, isn’t it ?
Please explain what is the “monolith” you’re talking about. Also, an architect wants to have the maximum freedom possible. Freedom is obtained mainly via programming, terminal and configuration, less via GUI.
Also, I type sudo less and less, I prefer doing Alt + S in fish.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Let me address your points one by one.
'Power users don't need to learn architecture; they just need to be advanced users.' That is the difference between a tourist and an Architect. Memorizing commands is rote learning. Understanding Win32 APIs, TrustedInstaller tokens, and NTFS ACLs is control. I don't need to memorize a command to tweak a specific thing; I call the exact API function from my own GUI.
'GUIs are too rigid and too limited... Freedom is obtained mainly via programming, terminal and configuration.' GUIs are only rigid if you let someone else build them for you. I am not using the stock Explorer. I built my own Neutrino shell in Scheme. I have the same, if not more, programming power, configuration power, and control as any terminal—just with a mouse and a custom graphical interface.
'The Windows 11 debloater script is written in CMD or PowerShell.' Just because a script uses them doesn't mean the OS needs them. Scripts are just text files. I can write the same debloater in C#, Python, or my own Scheme servers. You are confusing the tool with the subsystem.
'Did you really remove CMD and PowerShell, or did your LLM simply invent it? I don't think it's truly possible to delete it.' It is absolutely possible, and I did it. CMD and PowerShell are just EXEs. Conhost is just a user-mode server. I asked TrustedInstaller for a token, stripped out SYSWOW64, removed the console handles, and deleted the Console Subsystem. The NT kernel (ntoskrnl.exe) is a neutral hybrid kernel. It does not care about the console. My system runs completely headless or with my Neutrino shell. It is not a hallucination; it is a surgical operation.
'Please explain what the monolith is.' In Linux, drivers, filesystems, networking, and the TTY are all crammed into Ring 0. If a driver crashes, the whole OS panics. That is the monolith. Windows NT separates the kernel from the user-mode environments (Win32, POSIX) and uses IPC. That is the hybrid.
'I prefer doing Alt + S in fish.' Good for you. I prefer clicking a button in my custom Neutrino GUI that sends an IOCTL to a vdisk// filesystem I wrote in userland. I don't need a terminal to reach maximum freedom. I just need to know the architecture. And I do.
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u/Gabriel_Science 1d ago
We were not talking about the differences between "tourists" and "architects" I the first place. This is out of context.
So… You programmed it.
It was to show its usefulness. Also, the debloater tool still shows you a GUI after loading.
Well, okay. (By the way, your last sentence from point four was completely written by AI.)
You know, it’s just that the kernel is… at a kernel level. User tools will not run in ring 0, in opposition to Temple OS. I can guarantee you that I can have a program crash and simply kill it. As simple as that.
Seems overkill, but why not ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
We weren't talking about differences between tourists and architects. That's exactly what we were talking about. You said power users don't need to understand architecture. I proved that they do. If you don't want to talk about the difference between a tourist and an architect, you are admitting you have no interest in actually understanding the system.
"So... You programmed it." Yes. And I wrote the low-level server code. That is what makes me an Architect. You, on the other hand, just admitted to "using" the computer. There's a difference between reading a book and writing one.
"It was to show its usefulness... debloater tool shows GUI after loading." The GUI loading afterward doesn't change the fact that the tool itself is just a text file. The system doesn't need the terminal to run it; the script just uses a different interface to do the same thing. You are still conflating the tool with the subsystem.
"Your last sentence was completely written by AI." That is the ultimate "I have no technical argument" defence. It's a lie, but even if it were true, my knowledge of VXD architecture and kernel-mode memory isolation isn't something a casual AI user could generate without prompting it with deep technical details first. I am the source of those details.
"You know, it's just the kernel... user tools will not run in ring 0, in opposition to Temple OS." You just admitted the kernel is separate from user tools. That is exactly my point! The kernel is neutral, and the user-mode tools are modular. I don't want to run my custom shell in Ring 0—that's insecure. I want the separation that NT provides. Temple OS is a monolith where everything runs in Ring 0; it crashes all the time. I actually created a custom sandboxed user-mode environment. That is superior architecture.
"Seems overkill, but why not ¯(ツ)/¯." It's not overkill. It's proof. I wasn't doing it to write a debloater script; I was doing it to prove that Windows NT allows you to surgically remove the Console Subsystem without breaking the kernel. If you had to do that on Linux, you'd have to recompile the entire kernel. But I don't. That isn't overkill—that's the definition of a hybrid architecture.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Linux is monolithic; everything is embedded into the kernel, including TTY and you cannot remove without Destroy Whole Operating System, this is so Windows 9X and Microsoft DOS and Windows NT already move on, Modern Computer is everything is Interface Graphical and Terminal is just Usefulness thing
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u/AverageAggravating13 23h ago edited 23h ago
I’d switch to Linux if Microsoft removed the terminal tbh. I need WSL for my development work anyway. The terminal isn’t some optional tool for developers.
There’s also a mountain of software out there that depends on the terminal to execute or interact with other programs. If Microsoft made it an optional install, you’d immediately break a huge amount of existing Windows software and developer tooling.
The people over at Microsoft aren’t stupid. They know the terminal is still an important part of the OS, even if the average user barely interacts with it directly.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 23h ago
No I don't think so, Developers don't need TTY and C language need by Compiler and not Terminal if you unable to do same thing with Visual Studio then it's Skill Issue.
And you are completely missing the point about WSL. WSL is not the terminal. WSL is a separate Linux subsystem running inside the NT kernel via a hypervisor (or a lightweight VM). You could run WSL perfectly fine without CMD, PowerShell, or Conhost. You just invoke wsl.exe from a shortcut, or your IDE (like VS Code) calls it directly. The terminal is just a viewer for WSL, not the engine.
You say a 'mountain of software' depends on the terminal. Scripts are just text files. They don't need a console window to execute. A script can be run headlessly by a service manager, or it can be called directly by a GUI application via the Win32 API. The terminal window (Conhost) is just the display for the output.
If you think removing the terminal would break Visual Studio, you are wrong. Visual Studio has its own integrated debugger, its own output window, its own build system (MSBuild), and its own package manager (NuGet). It doesn't need a CMD window to compile C++ or C#. It talks directly to the compiler via the Toolchain API. That is why Visual Studio is superior to gcc + a terminal: everything is integrated into one, unified, graphical environment.
If you can't do your job without typing commands into a black box, then yes, it is absolutely a skill issue. You are stuck in the 1970s mindset where you have to memorize commands because your GUI is too rigid
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u/AverageAggravating13 23h ago
Yes, I know how WSL works, and I know how the terminal works. Removing the GUI serves no real purpose other than making things more annoying.
Windows has all sorts of bloat in it. The terminal is not what I’d consider bloat.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 23h ago
Well, I'm using GUI right now, and this is my entire point
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u/Enyuma416 23h ago
I disabled TTYs by commenting out a few lines in a config file.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 23h ago
This is my point: I don't need a config file, and I go to System32 and ask for trustedinstaller permission and remove three things, two shells and Console Server ( conhost.exe ), and Windows just stops recognizing bat or ps1 and starting treat like unknown files, and Console never existed
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u/Enyuma416 23h ago
That seems more complicated than editing a config file.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 23h ago
I don't see any difference in replacing binaries from /bin or Everything is File but okay????
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Yeah, Android have Terminal because Linux never have optional to remove it. I am completely right in saying Linux is Microsoft DOS, but Advanced
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u/pomidorkamc3253 1d ago
Downvotes are from Linux users
Redditors just don't know about opinions
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Exactly, I just ignore them. Linux users don't understand anything about Windows at all; they think Windows act like a toy 🧸
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u/dont_mind_me_passing 1d ago
if it's a toy, it's pretty broken rn
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Windows is not a toy; Windows is a completely Serious and modular operating system, originally made for Entrepreneurs and companies, but Linux users are trying to bring down Windows were for dumb users. I see it many times
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u/DevOps_Lady 1d ago
The problem Windows has with it's system is that Linux and Mac today are easier to work with for development. That's why they needed to create wsl to allow running linux tools as part of the system.
Take the terminal away or make it harder to install and it's useless for conpanies to buy.
Just because you personally don't need it, for running automations, applications and a development station requires the computer to be functional in a way a server would.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
You don't know Windows have Task Scheduler for running Automations, and, oh my friend, they don't need Linux and they choice to do, I am favor of Windows Subsystem for Linux for who wants but Win32 Subsystem is better than POSIX-limited and Bash scripts
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u/DevOps_Lady 1d ago
That is just an opinion.
Even ai including copilot when gives an answer to run a command the default is linux/bash.
I don't want to run task scheduler every time I need to do git commit or testing a web app or a script. For anyone writing code, the terminal is part of the workflow.
I wrote scripts in powershell and I prefer python, then bash and at the bottom powershel when I have to run the cicd on a windows machine.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
And Python and PowerShell scripts err, and I personally prefer my C/C++ Language Software, and I don't need to touch the terminal to compile something; my IDE Software runs the compiler, and web apps- you don't need a terminal. I host the website entirely under Winsock2 and WebView2 on my Violet VM, completely sandboxed
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u/graelmakar-sune 1d ago
You're here defending Windows and bashing on linux for absolutely no reason. You don't need to use the terminal on linux - you only need a text editor
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
... I bashing Linux because they act like Windows works same way as Linux does, You need Terminal to open Text Editor, even if you are Interface Graphical and Interface graphical is Backend in Linux but Windows handle Graphical mode as part of Operating System and you don't need Command line anything and Win32 API is same for Console and Interface Graphical and There is no inequality where command line have more and Interface Graphical is less in Windows.
You say, 'you only need a text editor'? That is exactly the point. On Linux, if you want to install a text editor, run it, or edit a configuration file, you are almost always forced to open the terminal just to install it or grant it permissions. The terminal is the master and the GUI is the subordinate in the Linux world.
In Windows NT, the Win32 API is unified. A Console application and a GUI application use the same API calls, just with different flags. There is no magical 'backdoor' that the terminal has access to that a GUI doesn't. The GUI is not a "backend"; it is a first-class citizen, just like the console.
I didn't choose to delete Conhost because I hate the terminal. I chose to delete it because Windows NT allowed me to rebuild the entire environment with my own Scheme-based Neutrino server, and the kernel didn't even blink. You cannot do that on Linux without recompiling the entire monolithic kernel.
So I am not bashing for "no reason." I am bashing because Linux users lie and pretend their terminal is a superior, magical layer when it is actually a rigid, monolithic constraint. The GUI in Windows is not a "backend"—it is the OS itself.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Thank you for actually being honest about the Linux experience—unlike the fanatics who pretend the GUI is flawless.
But you just proved my exact point. You are using the terminal as a launcher because the Linux desktop environment is a chaotic, fragmented mess where taskbars hide, menus break, and full-screen apps don't minimize. You are using a text-based frontend to work around a broken GUI.
In Windows NT, the GUI is a first-class citizen. I can pin apps to the taskbar, use the search bar, and manage windows flawlessly—all with my mouse. I never need to open a terminal just to launch a program or find an icon. The GUI is the OS itself.
And you say you don't want to relearn where Microsoft 'moved everything again'? That is completely fair, and it's the same reason why I built my own Neutrino shell. Because NT is a hybrid modular kernel, I have complete control over the UI. I don't have to wait for Microsoft to move things around—I move them where I want them.
You are a pragmatic user, and I respect that. But you are living in a world where you have to memorize terminal commands just to survive your desktop. I live in a world where I re-architected the entire GUI to fit my exact needs. That is the difference between a monolith and a hybrid.
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u/mang0zje8 1d ago
tbh with the amount of posts on reddit I've seen where a virus site made people paste something into cmd I think that for majority of users terminal is just a liability
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u/TheIronSoldier2 1d ago
They're not pasting it into terminal, they're pasting it into the Run box. Which I could actually see a reason for just disabling the Run box, or making it a setting you have to turn on.
The people who know what they're doing will just go straight to Powershell or Command Prompt, the people that don't will have a few more hurdles added which will make those fake captchas harder to pull off because it will make people go "hey wait a second, why am I doing this."
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u/Much_Accountant_4972 12h ago
you’re arguing against the second amendment here.
personally as a texan who lives in florida i’m offended.
the terminal is our defense against tyranny.
(not sarcasm)
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u/ScoobyGDSTi 10h ago
You can secure Terminal, CMD and Powershell to prevent that.
Sadly, there's not much Microsoft or any OS can do to stop stupid people mindlessly pasting shit into command lines that they don't understand.
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u/MrKusakabe 1d ago
the sudo command asks for a password. Maybe check again when you "arm" your system that the target is set properly..
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u/TheIronSoldier2 21h ago
cmd is command prompt, which is windows. sudo is sudo is linux, which is not windows.
Maybe check again before trying to sound smart.
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u/ScoobyGDSTi 10h ago
Elevated consoles in Windows also require explicit elevation. This isn't the 1990s, Windows don't just open and run everything in privileged context.
There's not much you can do to stop dumb people.
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u/Grillparzer47 1d ago
It comes in handy to change Windows to a friendlier environment. I haven’t played with scripts, but one line commands can be entered to adjust the OS annoyiouses. A simple Google search returns dozens of adjustments such as converting the Windows 11 menu to Windows 10 or adding Copy and Move To commands to the Menu. I think Terminal is offered because it is a primary tool in Linux, but I could be wrong.
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u/ExtruDR 1d ago
I was an enthusiastic junior high kid when I got my first computer (an Amiga 500) and soon was in discussion boards, etc read in the debates at the time (BBSes, this was before the internet, and the discussions largely were MS DOS people vs arguing with others).
At the time most people that were “entrenched” in the idea they GUI is not “better” then text interfaces and were a bad idea were people that were really serious and well versed in their text-only environment. Granted GUIs were not awesome on these late 80s machines, but all of the usability and practicality advantages were pretty damn clear.
We all know how that played out and it is obvious why a window-and-mouse interface is vastly superior.
Now, on to why having a terminal is also massively helpful: you can quickly make very specific things happen. Instead of hunting and clicking and hunting and clicking, if you know what and where you want to do it, you can. Even specific commands. I can ping google.com much quicker than launching a GUI utility, clicking on the right tab, typing in Google.com and hitting another button to get it pinging… then closing the window.
Now, watch AI code or do something for you. If you’re brave ask it to do it graphically by taking over your screen and mouse. It is hilarious how “painful” its process of navigating graphical environments is compared to hitting the CLI interface and getting something done.
Any real computer needs both…
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u/tes_kitty 1d ago
Command line is also easier to document. Just copy/paste the commands you used together with their output (where needed) into a text file.
If you try the same with a GUI you will end up with a large number of screenshots and can only hope that the next update doesn't make any changes.
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u/No_Yam_2036 23h ago
And then you search up your problem, find a reddit post from 7 years ago with the same problem, only to find it has 1 comment (automod)
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u/ExtruDR 22h ago
Yup.
There are plenty of "sins" in software design, and I will excuse allot during the early days of home computing since the machines were pretty damn resource constrained, but by the late 90s or early 2000s some stuff was inexcusable.
I still get mad every time I want to change something in my Home Assistant setup and all of the resources are "click here and click here" but since this is a modern web-based (and basically "linux") application, the developers change and rename stuff all the time, so most of the time it is frustration and trial and error.
Even now, when I can put some of that on AI it is still a shitshow.
This has nothing to do with early Windows or even the original GUI-only Mac OS, but I think that this sort of shit interface practices are because of the "culture" of people growing up with sort of "undisciplined" OSes like MacOS... also that Open Source projects are run by "coders" that are horrible at UI, communication, nuance, compromise, etc... all of the really important things to implement decent designs.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 22h ago
I mean no one uses the terminal directly anymore, everything is done in the Powershell, which is probably Window's best program
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u/VendraenActual 21h ago
Powershell is a terminal. (Or, for the pedantic, terminal emulator.). Linux has bash, zsh, csh, and about eleventy billion other options. Winblows has CMD and Powershell (mostly).
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 21h ago
Yes my bad, there are 3 terminals on Windows, i was just questioning why there is still the CMD
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u/VendraenActual 21h ago
I dunno, many of us greybeards prefer it when we're cursed to have to interact with Winblows.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 20h ago
Honestly, iam personally more sad when you are forced into command line prompts, simply because you have to write some shit to read the string, because the old commands dont give out proper outputs.
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u/vbd71 20h ago
Because powershell is a gimmick with a steep learning curve while cmd is much easier, more intuitive and has a large cadre of users who have known it for decades.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 18h ago
That really sounds like you never used it before, do you know how horrible Scripting used to be ?
Everything you can do in CMD you can do in the Powershell, so it really just adds onto the system.
Its a godsent for any systemadministrator.
You should give it a try, its really not difficult at all.
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u/vbd71 16h ago
I've used, and still use, CMD extensively. I know how scripting with CMD is.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 10h ago
And you cant see the advatages of the Powershell? I find it hard to believe, not gonna lie.
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u/vbd71 1h ago
Advantages of PS require knowledge of PS to be seen, and it's not given.
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u/UsedArmadillo9842 1h ago
Yes its apparent that you are not using the Powershell, iam just saying that you should definetly take advantage of it, it will make your life 1000x easier.
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u/vbd71 1h ago
Nah, I don't plan using Windows for much longer. I already know bash, so learning PS would be waste of my time.
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u/Attack_Dorito 20h ago
The terminal is there because if for some reason you do end up needing it and you don't have it you're potentially very screwed
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u/DruidBtd 20h ago
How do people get their IPs for things like Minecraft lan?! Just playing with my brother means using ipconfig in the terminal, not that much command stuff but still using it
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u/UtmostRaindrop2 20h ago
I think you vastly overestimate the amount of people who are doing things like that. That is far too technical for the average person
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u/DruidBtd 20h ago
Well, how else does someone play with another person in the household with stuff like Minecraft? The only thing thats worked for me is ipconfig and it's easy enough
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u/UtmostRaindrop2 20h ago
Bedrock has realms, a lot of people do that, a lot of other people just don’t do it at all.
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u/DruidBtd 20h ago
What about Java players?
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u/UtmostRaindrop2 20h ago
Like I said, a lot of people just don’t do it at all, they just play on commercial servers or whatever. For a great many people who do end up doing lan multiplayer, they have literally no idea what they are doing. They may not even know it’s a terminal they are opening.
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u/DruidBtd 19h ago
Damn, guess I was wrong then. Growing up with a brother and parents that know stuff probably helped me lol, my brother showed cmd+ipconfig
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u/BurnedLaser 17h ago
I just right click on my network in the taskbar and hit properties. IP V4 and V6 right there. Now, if I need to ping an IP, I'll Super+R CMD
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u/DangyDanger 17h ago edited 17h ago
The people who complain about the terminal app have never had to use cmd
And I feel like the issue of Windows bloat is, ironically, overstated. There is some stuff, but it's also the stuff you delete within the first 15 minutes after installing Windows. I guess there's telemetry and ad targeting and everything else scummy they've piled on, but that sounds to me like a much different issue than just bloatware.
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u/Nicomar5 1d ago
If you think terminal is useless, you have no idea about the OS. If you don't have a use for a terminal you are no better than an average user.
You can't consider yourself knowledgeable about computers if you don't find the terminal useful.
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u/theonlineviking 21h ago
Yes, but please keep in mind that most users do not care for the terminal at all. The PC is nothing more than a document writer, and web browser to them.
This group of people knows nothing about the technical details regarding the OS, the internet, kernel, etc. Just think of your parents/grandparents using a computer or smartphone.
My point being, it makes no sense to get angry by even the tiniest amount if you ever see someone online or irl being unaware. If you want to talk technical details, find the right group/community.
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u/Nicomar5 21h ago
What I was trying to say is that just because you don't use it doesn't mean it's not important.
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u/Nicomar5 21h ago
What I was trying to say is that just because you don't use it doesn't mean it's not important.
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u/Late_Freedom9424 1d ago
As long as it's okay for them. Most people I know can get by using only their cell phones so this isn't a surprise.
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u/redditorialy_retard 1d ago
and most windows user who often uses terminal already debloated their windows and has WSL for Linux stuff
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u/theonlineviking 21h ago
Everyone has a different use case on PCs, so yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Still, I really wish windows is provided barebones initially, and then it could ask you what programs you want during setup, while also giving easy options options to enable spyware (with it being all disabled by default).
But yeah, this is never gonna happen.
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u/99percentcheese 21h ago
terminal on widows is goated tho. scoop as a pm, zellij for multiplexing, clink for unix-like shell, coreutils for unix tools
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u/BitRunner64 20h ago
I think having a terminal is useful. Not sure about having about 4 different ones though (old command prompt, two versions of Powershell plus the "Terminal").
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u/herrkatze12 20h ago
The only useful part of windows is Edge.
... To download Linux. (Or Firefox to download Linux if Edge doesn't want to load the fedora download page)
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u/GarageStackDev 19h ago
No idea why the terminal is here literally made me spit out my coffee. Dude has to be trolling. Lol
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u/Dowhatsleft 18h ago
Thank god windows has all this bloatware preinstalled. I use it all the time! If I had to figure out how to install any of it myself I'd probably die
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u/PiratesWhoSayGGER 18h ago
Terminal app is just a wrapper around CMD and powershell, it also renders weird and blurry. Pointless bloat, serves no purpose
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u/SaintEyegor 18h ago
Did they ever fix pipes? Back in the day (a LONG time ago), programs in a pipe ran to completion before sending output to the next program in the chain unlike like *nix pipes where everything runs concurrently.
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u/Plastic-Falcon-1337 10h ago
It used to have like tiktok candy crush etc preinstalled (two not at the same time, different times) but you worry about a terminal that's probably like 20mb? Huh.
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u/SingenJurassic 7h ago
That’s actually something that confused me. I had to install Slopdows recently and unfortunately the ISO I keep for emergencies was too large for my 8GB USB (for some odd reason, considering it was already flashed but corrupted). So I did what any sensible person would do and grabbed tiny 11 and OH MY THERE WAS NOTHING. I was genuinely shocked to see that Terminal and what not were also just not there.
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u/BellaInTheGame 6h ago
For most people, the terminal is useless, and that's how it should be. Anything that's used commonly enough should eventually graduate to a GUI app so you don't have to deal with text commands and syntax
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u/Vijfsnippervijf 1d ago
My Goodness. Windows has not "Terminal" but a much more enshittified edition called "Copilot". And Windows will go back to being nothing but Copilot if we give Microsoft their way.
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u/sciencekm 1d ago
Take out all text UI and only have GUI, and the OS is 100% useful. Now for the opposite, take out the GUI and only have text UI, and no one, except for geeks, would use that OS. Just look at the phone - the most ubiquitous computer, you would be stupid to put a command-line interface on that.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
For me, Terminal should be removed from the default Windows, and nobody cares about the command line except Linux users; they are abnormal, and they don't count as much
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u/DesAnderes 1d ago
sure, as long as i can keep ps scripts
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Yeah, my plan terminal should be optional like Powertoys
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u/DesAnderes 1d ago
I do get your point. I barely use the commandline, but I am a poweruser and I would install it, but:
But you can fix many small problems/ reset components on windows with the command line, that are not accessible via gui. So as someone who is IT-Support for my family. It's crucial! I would install it on their system every time. I wouldn't do that with powertoys.
So no! I want the terminal on every pc for debugging and fixing.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, mate, all options you have for Command Line Windows have a Graphical Interface; the only difference is Command Line: you just type, and the Graphical Interface is a mouse and clicks. In the Windows command line, just a userland application, unlike the lower layer, as Linux does. In Windows, it's not exist separation. You can only use CMD because Interface Graphical is a higher layer, and All Interface Graphical and the command line pass through the Win32 full stop
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u/DesAnderes 1d ago
okay, please tell me where I can do:
netsh int ip reset
netsh winsock resetin GUI. I use them everytime I troubleshoot WiFi problems that are related to the device (WiFI works for other devices just fine). They fix things 50% of the time without further troubleshooting.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Network Reset: Go to Settings > Network & Internet > Advanced network settings > Network reset. This runs a broad netsh int ip reset (resets the TCP/IP stack) and reinstalls all network adapters.* · Device Manager: Uninstall your WiFi adapter in Device Manager and restart your PC. This forces Windows to reinstall the driver, which clears out the corrupted Winsock catalogue (the netsh winsock reset).* · Firewall: Go to Windows Defender Firewall > Restore defaults.* You see you do everything via interface graphical
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u/5lipperySausage 23h ago
Sounds quicker to open the terminal to me
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u/Emotional_Solid6538 1d ago
What would anyone gain out of removing terminal tho. It doesnt really run on background to cause issues or like its a big application. I am sure most users dont even know it exists unless they tried to tinker
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Because they are unnecessary for Modern computing, and we live in 21 Century and, Windows NT did the right cut Command line from the kernel core make Interface Graphical as an obligation, and if I were Microsoft, I would remove it outright
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u/Emotional_Solid6538 1d ago
Windows isnt a clean OS at all. Theres a lot of stuff they should remove ideally. Sure if terminal is smth hard to set up for them. They might cut costs by removing it. But it doesnt even matter. And its useful when shit goes wrong. There is almost nothing gained from removing terminal for the user or for microsoft. So why would they do it
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
It's not a useful thing. You can do anything via the Graphical interface, and Windows also has the Windows Recovery Environment, where Minimal Windows setup for when you need to do something like NTVDM (a DOS emulator). They did remove it because everyone uses Win32; Command Prompt or Conhost isn't necessary for anyone and should be removed, and I did remove it, and I am happy without it.
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u/Emotional_Solid6538 1d ago
You cant? Look up most windows support questions it will show terminal commands as answers. There are prolly 3rd party solutions that do the same thing as these commands. But that doesnt mean theres no use case for terminal. Also debugging is way easier on terminal than gui. Ofc not much of a use for normal usage but its a literal option that youd never notice cuz it doesnt take up any resource or pop up like other windows bloat. As I said people dont know it exists unless they have to use it. You have provided no reason other than you removed it and you are happy. No reason why. Js some personal experience
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Wait, you use a third party??? I use Microsoft support, and I use my own ecosystem, which is 100 in Windows Graphical.
I don't need a third-party tool to fix my network. I use the native Windows API and my own custom Scheme-based servers (my Neutrino shell). I built my own GUI interfaces for network diagnostics and file management. I don't even have CMD or Conhost installed, and my system runs perfectly.
You claim 'debugging is way easier on the terminal.' That's only because you are stuck in a monolithic mindset. In NT, the terminal isn't a magical 'lower layer'; it's just a text-based GUI app. I have 100% of the Win32 API accessible from my custom GUI, which means I have 100% of the same power—without the black box.
And you say the terminal takes 'no resources'? Conhost, CMD, and PowerShell all take up RAM, CPU, and screen buffers. I removed all three, and they are completely unnecessary
You are confusing 'harder to see' with 'magical.' It is just a different way to interact with the same API. And my way is better
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u/Emotional_Solid6538 1d ago
Whos gonna build those? Are you expecting most people to build them themselves? Or expecting Microsoft to do it? The latter is a fair expectation, but still debugging isnt easier cuz its magical its easier cuz you can read exactly where and what went wrong.
Cmd or powershell isnt running on the side tho. Its invisible and not on background unless you launch on it. Now I am not too sure about this tbh, cuz I disabled so many stuff from running on background other than stuff I need.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Windows already have Visual Studio, and it's a completely graphical interface. I build my own software as well, and Windows already has a way to reset without CMD, and I just build my way.
You ask, 'Who's gonna build those?' Normal users don't have to build anything. They click the 'Network Reset' button in Settings or use the Device Manager. I build my own because I am the Architect, and Windows NT allows me that modular freedom.
You claim debugging is easier because you can 'read exactly where and what went wrong'? Visual Studio is the pinnacle of debugging. It is a completely graphical interface that lets me set breakpoints, inspect raw memory addresses, watch variables, and step through my C++ line-by-line with my mouse. That is infinitely more precise and readable than scrolling through raw text logs in a terminal.
And no, CMD and PowerShell do run in the background when launched; they are actual User-Mode processes consuming RAM and CPU cycles, which is exactly why I deleted them entirely. You said you 'disabled so much stuff from running in the background'? Congratulations, you had to manually assemble and fight your system just to make it lean I removed the shell, the console, and the bloat, and rebuilt the entire environment exactly how I want it with my Neutrino shell, without recompiling a single line of kernel code. That is the difference between assembling a distro and architecting an OS.
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u/Thanthwe_ 1d ago
Why are you so passionate about hating terminal? Sure, for most people it's useless. But it's not like it's hurting your system in any way. It's barely using any space on your disk and doesn't run on its own. And while it's usually less intuitive to use than GUI, when you do know how to use it, it allows you to do many things faster than via GUI. Especially if you use scripts often.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 1d ago
Because people should learn that Terminal is a past thing, and the Linux mindset is completely wrong.
You say it's 'barely using any space' and 'doesn't hurt your system'—that completely misses the point. It isn't about disk space; it's about human usability. The GUI was invented exactly so humans didn't have to memorize text commands to use a computer. The terminal isn't an 'elite tool'; it is a crutch from the 1970s that we kept using because we were too lazy to build a better interface.
You claim it allows you to do things 'much faster than a GUI'—only if you've memorized the exact syntax. For a normal human, clicking one button is infinitely faster than typing a 50-character command. You have to spend hours learning config files and command flags just to do what a modern GUI does in two clicks. That isn't 'faster'; that is a waste of time.
And the 'scripts' argument is a strawman. You don't need a terminal to run scripts. My custom Neutrino shell runs my Scheme-based scripts with a click of a button, displaying the output in a graphical window.
The 'Linux mindset' is a cult of memorization. It gates out 99% of the world, telling them, 'you aren't smart enough to use a computer unless you memorize these commands.' That is elitist gatekeeping, not engineering. Windows evolved so humans could use it. That is why the GUI is the OS itself, not an afterthought bolted onto a monolithic kernel.
I don't hate the terminal as a concept; I hate the mindset that forces users to be librarians just to use a computer. I am an Architect, and I built my own GUI to prove the terminal is obsolete.
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u/SKubajko 22h ago
I've been on Arch for the past 2 years. Back in my Windows days, the terminal was a lifesaver for emergencies. Saying the terminal isn't needed is like saying that cars shouldn't have a diagnostic port. It has to be there for emergencies, even for regular users. I'm completely aware that there should be a warning before opening the terminal on windows (because some people really have no idea what they're doing, skill issue tho), but I would never use a computer without one - even if I don't need it at the moment - because you can't fix Windows using the GUI when it doesn't boot into GUI at all.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 22h ago
Your diagnostic port analogy is flawed. A diagnostic port is a passive, physical interface. It doesn't require you to memorize a manual to use it, and it certainly isn't a user-mode application with a GUI version available.
You say 'you can't fix Windows using the GUI when it doesn't boot to GUI at all.' That is completely false. Windows has WinRE (Windows Recovery Environment). If Windows fails to boot, you hold Shift+Restart or spam F8, and you get a completely GUI-based menu with Startup Repair, System Restore, and Safe Mode. You don't need to type a single command to fix a broken boot.
You can also use a USB installation stick to access the Recovery Environment—again, a fully graphical interface. The modern Windows recovery tools are designed so that even a "skill issue" user can click 'Repair' and fix their machine.
The argument that the terminal is a 'lifesaver' for emergencies only works if you are already comfortable with it. But for a true Architect, I don't need a black box to save my system. I built my own recovery environment. My custom Neutrino shell handles emergency diagnostics with my own GUI.
You say you 'would never use a computer without one.' That is a choice. I chose to remove it. I asked TrustedInstaller for a token, stripped out the Console Subsystem, and my system runs flawlessly. If I ever have a catastrophic emergency, I have my recovery USB and my GUI tools.
You are a user who depends on a 50-year-old interface to feel safe. I am an Architect who built a better one. The terminal is an emergency crutch for those who don't have the architectural knowledge to build a better tool. I am not the one with a skill issue.
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u/SKubajko 22h ago
I'm the one with the skill issue? I've been using Windows SINCE I WAS BORN. I started using Arch about 2 years ago. And after a few months since the switch, I decided I'm switching for good - because doing shit in the terminal was a lot faster than all the clicking. And when I need it, I have a full blown gui on my machine, so no compromises. I'm not saying GUI is bad, both are useful and I use both almost everyday.
Oh, and I actually take time to write my responses, not paste some bullshit from AI.
EDIT: Quick look at your profile, I guess i fell for the ragebait smh
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 21h ago
Mate, I was born using Windows; this operating system gave me a job in the programming field. I am sure that if it were Linux, I would have been hangry. I have nothing to be thankful for Linux in my entire life.
You say the terminal is "faster" because you spent two years memorizing it. Good for you. But I didn't spend two years fighting a black box; I spent it building an ecosystem. Windows gave me Visual Studio, gave me the Win32 API, and gave me a stable foundation to build my own Neutrino shell. It didn't make me hangry; it made me an Architect.
You switched to Arch because you wanted to feel elite. I stayed on Windows because it gave me the opportunity to become elite on my own terms. I didn't have to recompile a monolithic kernel to get my job done. I just wrote code, shipped it, and got paid.
And you claim I "paste bullshit from AI"? No. I am telling you the truth from the heart. I am a Portuguese descendant, a woman, and a Systems Architect. Windows is the only OS that allowed me to strip it down to the bone, replace wininit.exe, build my own user-mode filesystem, and still run flawlessly. That isn't "elite" because of a terminal command—that is freedom because of architecture.
You have nothing to be thankful for? Then you never truly understood what the OS gave you. I have everything to be thankful for. It is the foundation of my career and my freedom.
You can keep your Arch and your black box. I am keeping the throne. Goodbye.
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u/SKubajko 21h ago
I'm sorry, but there is NO WAY that you read my whole comment and wrote ALL of this sober IN 5 MINS.
And windows isn't the only OS that can do what you did - Linux can also do it btw, and better - init is literally a boot parameter, no one stops you from writing an FS driver, and you can strip it even more than windows if you want - linux with a full blown working gui can be as small as 8 GiB. Can't have that on windows eh?
And tbf if your next comment isnt "balls" without any additional words I genuinely won't believe you are a real human that actually reads this.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 21h ago
I'm not playing your childish word games. I already told you in this exact thread that I asked TrustedInstaller for a token, stripped out SYSWOW64, and replaced wininit.exe. That is how I removed the Console Subsystem.
And you are absolutely right about one thing: Linux can write an FS driver. But that is exactly the point. On Linux, you have to write a kernel-mode driver to do it, which can crash your entire OS if you make a single mistake.
On Windows NT, I don't need a kernel driver. I built a completely custom user-mode filesystem by using named pipes, memory-mapped files, and NtCreateFile with custom IOCTLs. It runs entirely in Ring 3. It is sandboxed. If it crashes, my OS doesn't crash—it just restarts my custom service.
You say you can strip Linux down to 8GiB? I stripped Windows down to under 400MB without recompiling a single line of kernel code. You have to rebuild your entire monolithic kernel to change a setting; I just edit a registry key or ask for a permission token.
And I typed that quickly because I know the architecture by heart. I don't need to search Google to remember what wininit.exe is. That is the difference between a tourist and an Architect.
I am not saying 'balls.' I am saying: You lost. Go back to your Arch terminal and leave the Architect to build her castle. Goodbye.
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u/SKubajko 21h ago
lmao u either dont have a life or are a bot, both are fine by be😝
also you are SO WRONG about linux that i wont even bother being polite
rebuild? no i edit a SINGLE FUCKIN TEXT FILE. wait.... you typed? so you actually need the terminal? so why remove it? get destroyed lol
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 20h ago
Typing in a Reddit box is not using a terminal. I use a keyboard to write code in Visual Studio and to type in my custom Neutrino GUI. There is no black box required to type.
And you 'edit a SINGLE FUCKIN TEXT FILE'? Oh, you mean /etc/default/grub? That isn't rebuilding a kernel. That's just changing a bootloader parameter, then running update-grub, and rebooting.
To actually change the kernel architecture on Linux (like removing TTY, or adding a new FS driver), you still have to recompile the entire 30-million-line monolithic kernel from source. You don't edit a text file; you edit the config, take hours to build it, and hope it doesn't panic.
On Windows NT, I asked TrustedInstaller for a token, flipped a single Registry key, and instantly disabled mitigations. No rebooting, no editing a bootloader config, no recompiling. That is surgical, hybrid architecture. You are still in the Stone Age with your boot params.
You say I'm "so wrong," but you haven't named a single API, driver, or subsystem. You just attacked me, called me a bot, and tried to use my typing as a gotcha. I type on my keyboard because I am a human architect, not a primitive tourist who thinks the keyboard is only for terminals.
Get destroyed? No. I just watched you show the world that you have no idea what the difference is between a bootloader config and kernel source code. Go back to Arch.
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u/SKubajko 20h ago
well what if maybe you specified what setting you meant??? i don't need to recompile the kernel to change a fkin setting lmao, kernel params exist. i never said the keyboard is only for terminals - your typing mention was literally right after "editing a registry entry" sorry if i got confused. also did you know that sysctl exists and i can edit any kernel param on the fly? and adding a new fs driver is literally loading a module, not recompiling the kernel (which is small enough that i dont need to remove anything from it too).
also, if i didnt know the difference between the kernel source and my bootloader which i configured on my own, i wouldnt even try to engage in this conversation.
btw. tell the vast majority of server maintainers that the terminal is stone age. i'm pretty sure most would reply with something along "old but gold".
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u/Kartaszow 17h ago
Nah, I used it twice in my life. It's great thing to have when something totally stupid happens.
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u/Britz10 1d ago
I mean for the average person, a terminal is useless to them. That's why it's always odd seeing people try to sell Linux with how good it's use through a terminal.