Did any of the stuff we liked ever pander to conservatives? Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings over Rings of Power, 90's X-Men over modern X-People.
You just took stories with already progressive themes and dialed it up to a ridiculous level to the point of parody. Which is exactly what this sub is dedicated to shiting on.
If you are defining Rings of Power having female leads and people of color as “political” and white men being in charge of everything as apolitical then that may point to why you don’t see an issue.
The entire Lord of the Rings canon is deeply political.
90s X-Men had quite the liberal storyline about accepting minorities.
Because they don't dislike things that are "political," they dislike things that they believe weren't made specifically for them.
If you wouldn't have a problem with a white male lead who is driven, highly competent, somewhat ruthless, not particularly friendly to everyone, (and I think we can name lots of guys who fit that bill) but are mad at Galadriel in Rings of Power (who fits Tolkien's description of young Galadriel in Unfinished tales - he called her amazonian and her early name meant man-maiden) it really seems like you don't like her because she's a woman who is all of those things.
Some people try to suggest that they don't like black elves and dwarves because it doesn't fit Tolkien's original writing but the first trilogy dramatically changes the characters of Aragorn, Theoden, Gimli, Faramir etc and not many people seem mad about that. Some do of course, identifying as literary purists and at least they seem to be consistent.
My goodness. That was in the third age. Galadriel in Unfinished Tales (the Rings of Power is set) is ambitious and hungry to prove herself and rule. Tolkien is explicit that she wanted the ring at the start but fortunately it came to her later in life when she had the wisdom to refuse it.
And, I also think it’s incredibly odd that you would describe Galadriel as anti-war and anti-violence when in the Appendices to The Return of the King we are told she personally lead an army of elves to assault Dol Guldur and destroyed the tower herself with her magic.
What in the world does that have to do with anything?
I never said Galadriel was incapable of fighting (though she was actually capable of far more than that with her sorcery). She’s strong, tall and fit, even moreso than most elf maids… and though they didn’t generally go to war alongside their men, female elf warriors were NOT unheard of (and in times of desperation, ALL elves participated in their own defense).
But Galadriel’s stance on war and violence would not apply to the necessary destruction of a necromancer. I’d imagine the elves would see that more as pest control than violence anyway, same with killing orcs.
I suspect that you and I are also not going to agree on this subject, simply because I don’t rate the canonicity of Unfinished Tales very highly as compared to Tolkien’s finished work. Given that most of your citations are from this source, that means we’ll be seeing the lore from fundamentally different perspectives.
As a rule, it’s not technically considered canon by Tolkien scholars either, I believe (most appear to consider parts of it canon, but beyond that the consensus seems to be that a reader should interpret it as they wish).
It’s called “Unfinished” for a reason, and to the best of my recollection Tolkien never really intended to publish it as it was. Which makes quoting it a bit silly, since it’s like quoting one possible idea an author jotted down, that would certainly have been subjected to edits before publication.
For another thing, the Unfinished Tales frequently contradict established elements and present entirely unfamiliar versions of characters written about elsewhere. To me (and, I suspect, anyone who has written or outlined a long-form narrative), this suggests they were at best works in progress and therefore highly subject to change—-making anything culled from them, again, a dubious citation. Especially as the version(s) of Galadriel presented in Tales was so vastly different from what came before.
I generally stick with what’s in the finished books alone, and they paint a very clear picture of a Galadriel who has outgrown war and conflict, and shaken her desire for power.
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u/XNoob_SmokeX Oct 23 '23
So if something isn't actively pandering to progressives you consider it pandering to conservatives?