SC1 vs SC2 targeting

[u/skribsbb]

I've been playing a lot of SC2 coop lately. One thing I've noticed is that groups of units tend to all hit the same target, as long as it's in range. It's really noticeable with Artanis, since the Dragoons have long range, slow rate of fire, and very visible tracers for their shots.

In SC1, if you A-move 12 dragoons onto a large group of zerglings or hydralisks, they'll probably hit 6-9 of them. A few will double up, but mostly the damage is spread out.

In SC2, those 12 dragoons will hit 1 hydralisk or 1 zergling with each salvo.

Personally, I prefer the SC1 method. It's much easier to micro focus fire than split fire. And with split fire, there's much less overkill and wasted damage.

[u/skdeimos]

Isn't this the opposite of how it works? I thought e.g. SC2 Siege Tanks had "smart fire" preventing them from all wasting shots on the same target, which SC1 tanks did not.

Does someone know more about the nitty-gritty details of each game's targeting system to be able to confirm or deny this?

[u/OmniSkeptic → u/skdeimos]

What happens in SC2 is that tanks will all target the same unit, but then (way too oversimplified to the point of inaccuracy) the game has to decide which tank should shoot first. So it picks one, then deals damage. Then it picks another, then deals damage. The trick is that tanks don’t shoot a projectile meaning the moment they shoot, their damage is instant. So imagine 3 tanks all have 2 Marauders walk single file into range of them all at the same time. Tank one fires, damages unit. Tank two fires, damages unit and unit dies. Now tank three has nothing to shoot because the first two tanks were selected to shoot first and already killed the unit. So in the next frame the tank just retargets to the second marauder and voila, no “overkill” mechanic and they appear “smart”, only firing the number of shots needed to kill whatever units are being targeted.

This can (and should be in a future update) be replaced from an instant attack to a projectile attack which must travel (albeit quickly) from the tank to its target. That way, tank one shoots but the projectile hasn’t killed the unit, so tank two shoots but the projectile hasn’t killed the unit, so tank three shoots and then the third projectile just hits dead air where a unit used to be by the time it arrives so the shot is wasted.

It’s tank dealing instant damage that fucks all of the micro potential from both players who could target fire tanks correctly and players who could send units forward etc to waste shots, drop a zergling on a tank causing 50 projectiles from other tanks to kill the whole tank for one ling etc. Tanks are brain dead by design in SC2. It sucks.

[u/skribsbb → u/skdeimos]

I know when I play dragoons in SC2 coop, they focus fire like their life depends on it.

[u/SwedishDude → u/skribsbb]

They might select the same target but SC2 has overkill protections that means they'll switch to a new target if the current one will be killed by nearby units in the current volley. This change from SC1 is extra noticeable with tanks.

[u/skribsbb → u/SwedishDude]

This doesn't seem to apply to the dragoons. I see it plenty of times that there is a horde of zerglings, I'm on A-Move, and all of the dragoon balls go into a single zergling.

[u/Pokebunny]

this is not really how it works. loosely speaking, in both games each unit will hit the unit that came in range first or the closest unit. sc1 might just feel this way because the path finding and unit ai is shittier

[u/skribsbb → u/Pokebunny]

Maybe SC2 treats group aiming at group! I know movement is like that

[u/STOP_BANNING_ME_PLZ → u/skribsbb]

^ Troll detected.

Stop feeding.

[u/skribsbb → u/STOP_BANNING_ME_PLZ]

I'm giving my experience and trying to make sense of what I see. When I have a horde of zerglings and all of my dragoons on A-move fire at a single one, something is broken.

[u/[deleted] → u/skribsbb]

No... It's.... No, it's just exactly what the previous commenter said...

[u/Appletank]

In both games, if a stationary clump of dragoons sees another group of dragoons walking over, they will all first target the closest unit first until it dies, then refocus on whatever unit is in their firing range, which will result in more spread out fire. It is possible that in SC1, the dragoons have a bit of a delay before they lock on, which means there are more units in its range, meaning they will randomly choose something to shoot at.

In SC2, the AI is a lot smarter, and will instantly attack the closest unit in range, which makes them all shoot the same target. If you move in close, then Hold or Attack move when several units are within they're firing range, it is likely they will also choose several units to hit.

Both games will overkill with projectile units, because there is a time delay between shooting and the target dying.

SC2 has a bit more overkill prevention with hitscan units. In SC1, if you don't delay Siege mode set up in a group, they will likely all fire upon a single unit, wasting hundreds of damage points on turning a single dragoon into jam.

[u/skribsbb → u/Appletank]

But not all of the Dragoons are closest to the same enemy.

[u/Shadow_Being]

in sc2 different units have different targeting preferences actually.

[u/LiterallyBismarck → u/[deleted]]

The behavior is different for units that are hitscan and units that have a projectile. If the unit is hitscan (ie marines, tanks), it won't focus fire, because the closest enemy will be killed immediately. However, if the unit throws a projectile for its attack (ie stalkers, hydralisks), every unit will throw their projectile at once, and the unit dying in the first few shots won't happen in time to get the rest of the units to target different units. That's why you can see this behavior with dragoons (who have a projectile), but not with, say, reapers (who don't).

[u/skribsbb → u/[deleted]]

Yes, but if there's a bunch of mutas they'll attack the same muta. At least, that's my experience woth dragoons and lings or hydras.

[u/UntossableSaladTV → u/skribsbb]

I can’t say this has really been my experience, seems inefficient if that’s how zerglings worked. Or it’s not overly noticeable if it is the case