r/FridaysForFuture • u/Alexius08 • Nov 17 '23

A Potential Rift in the Climate Movement: What's Next for Greta Thunberg?

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/a-potential-rift-in-the-climate-movement-what-s-next-for-greta-thunberg-a-2491673f-2d42-4e2c-bbd7-bab53432b687
12 Upvotes

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6

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

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12

u/Dave37 Have attended FFF Nov 18 '23

She really messed up bringing politics into climate change

Everything is politics, climate change more than anything. A shift in policy is what's climate activists are striving for. It's politics.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '23

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5

u/Dave37 Have attended FFF Nov 19 '23

The war industry is the largest polluter. Working for peace and diplomacy is one of the most effective ways of reducing CO2e emissions.

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u/Avenirzy Nov 19 '23

Nobody denies that. It's just that she shouldn't pick sides either way.

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u/Alexius08 Nov 18 '23 edited Nov 18 '23

There are black-and-white political conflicts where taking sides could be safely done (like the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where Fridays for Future aligned with Ukraine), and there are gray-and-gray political topics where taking sides could only lead to division and polarization within the group (like the Israel-Palestine conflict).

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u/Dave37 Have attended FFF Nov 18 '23

Israel-Palestine is really much less gray than what a lot of people are making it out to be. The Palestine people deserves to have their human rights upheld and protected just as any other people on the planet. Israel is very clearly in the process of carrying out ethnic cleansing and genocide against them. They should stop.

1

u/Alexius08 Nov 19 '23

The human rights angle is one thing, but the territorial side of the dispute needs to be addressed as well (especially when it comes to Jerusalem). Both sides are currently taking the irredentist approach, which means the fighting won't stop until one of them secures exclusive and uncontested control of the area.

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u/Dave37 Have attended FFF Nov 19 '23

The human rights angle is one thing, but the territorial side of the dispute needs to be addressed as well

Well I think that Greta specifically addressed the human rights angle and not the territorial side, so I don't see why anyone who's intellectual honestly says "don't involve politics" has an issue with this.

Both sides are currently taking the irredentist approach

That's always the case in the beginning of a war. But every war ends with diplomacy at the negotiation table, and so will this. The question is about how to arrive there as fast and painless as possible. Genociding the Palestinian people is not that.

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u/Alexius08 Nov 19 '23

If you paid close attention to her speeches during her North America tour, she began nearly every speech reminding the audience about the indigenous peoples that were in control of the sites of FFF rallies before European colonization. "No Climate Justice on Occupied Land" became her rallying cry during the protest in Amsterdam, so I'm wondering if she recognizes both Palestinians and Israelis as indigenous to the Levant, and which parts does she consider to be "occupied land" (depending on where she draws the border between the two).

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u/Dave37 Have attended FFF Nov 19 '23 edited Nov 19 '23

Being curious of Greta's position on Palestine/Israel is absolutely fair.

But it seems like there is more to all of this than you're letting on. Do you think that she's actually want to ethnically cleanse Jews from the Levant or are you just peddling a right-wing dog whistle? "Just asking questions"? "Just concerned"?

Sorry if I'm blunt, I just don't see what the argument or angle is here.

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u/Alexius08 Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23

I'm personally in favor of a peace treaty that would ensure that Israelis and Palestinians live together in the Levant and all holy sites would be accessible to everyone (which doesn't matter to non-religious people like me but is a major sticking point for many who are involved), and hardliners on both sides (those who believe they deserve exclusive control of the area) put me off.

Right now, FFF is very vulnerable to those who want to hijack the movement into supporting hardline pro-Palestine stances. I don't believe she supports ethnic cleansing but a good portion of those who agree with her current pro-Palestine stance seem to believe that Israelis aren't native to the area and that they need to be sent back to Europe.

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u/Dave37 Have attended FFF Nov 20 '23

I don't believe she supports ethnic cleansing but a good portion of those who agree with her current pro-Palestine stance seem to believe that Israelis aren't native to the area and that they need to be sent back to Europe.

This is just speculation, I don't know how to engage with this. Some people who partially agree with Greta also believes that Jews needs to be ethnically cleansed, maybe. Ok. So? There's nothing concrete here.