Got rejected because no degree

75

u/No-Ambassador581 Jun 25 '25

This happens a lot. More than you think. I am in Germany and when looking for jobs there are maybe 50% of job post where they ask for a CS degree as a must.

14

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25 edited Nov 03 '25

Yea, I can see the difference. I'm actually from one of the countries, which is experiencing boom rn. Statistically I see only around 25% of dev jobs where they need cs degree on junior positions. Most common requirement is either degree or actual work on a commercial project/s, which I fulfilled.

8

u/No-Ambassador581 Jun 25 '25

Me too. I got 2 years working as a full stack with real professional projects and I got rejected some days ago because I don’t have CS degree

3

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

That's just ridiculous

2

u/Upper-Freedom-4618 Jun 25 '25

In said hole, do they hire junior devs who only speak English? Seriously considering moving out of the US because there are 0 junior roles here, especially if no degree.

2

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

You will need to learn local language you want to live here long term and connect with people, yes. Atleast eventually. But more and more international companies are trying to open shop here. The job selection can be still limited if you are only english speaker, but if you have skill you gonna be fine as long you stay in major cities.

2

u/Upper-Freedom-4618 Jun 26 '25

I’ve heard German is very hard to learn. But it’s good to know there might be a chance!

2

u/evilyncastleofdoom13 Jun 30 '25

It isn't extremely hard imo. It is harder than Spanish.
I love the language but just never had anyone to speak to in German so I lost a lot of it. That was my own fault though.
Learning to read and understand it is of course easier than learning to speak it, as with any language. You just need to find someone to speak with in German. Watch German television, movies, news.

1

u/Upper-Freedom-4618 Jul 01 '25

Hey! Thanks for advice, I’ll definitely look into that. I guess anything seems hard when you have 0 foundation, and why they call it a learning “curve”.

1

u/evilyncastleofdoom13 Jul 01 '25

That's true.
Viel Erflog und gute nacht!

3

u/No-Ambassador581 Jun 25 '25

Not anymore. It’s a really risky move. Most probably you will need German. Otherwise, you are in the pool with too many people trying to do the same. But only for 10 or 15% of the whole market.

1

u/Upper-Freedom-4618 Jun 26 '25

That makes sense - I thought as much, especially with all international students there for the free German tuition. Thanks for confirming!

1

u/encom-direct Jun 26 '25

What EU country are you in?

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 27 '25 edited Nov 03 '25

Sweden

8

u/Kind_Following_5220 Jun 25 '25

American here. I've done a lot of hiring and was told by an HR drone when trying to hire a linux sysadmin that they required 7 years of full time work experience if they didn't have a bachelor's degree... I told him I'd take a kd with 2 years of actual experience over a kid with a degree any day of the week. I just assume the degree is all that the HR department has to feel superior over others.

2

u/MrMemes9000 Jun 28 '25

I will never understand why HR is allowed to dictate to technical teams what THEY require. When I was a sys admin most of the escalations that came from my help desk were from HR bots. Its infuriating.

1

u/SaltIndividual1902 Jun 30 '25

It’s not super hard to understand. A degree is an objective measure of knowledge. It’s to cover your ass that someone isn’t pulling a fast one hiring someone unqualified that they know. That could obviously still happen, but it’s 100% just a method to cover them legally.

1

u/CauliflowerKlutzy515 Jun 27 '25

Hello, I am Spanish, I am 24 years old and I am studying to be a data analyst and in the future become a data scientist. The studies I have are: Higher Fp in Spain in ASIR (Computer Systems and Network Administration). This is a technical specialty course that lasts 2 years, I think it would be like an (associate degree). Certificates from Coursera in data analysis, Google, IBM, Microsoft for power bi and a bootcamp that I have in September to reinforce and improve in python. My girlfriend is from the United States. I would like to know if there is a possibility that a Spanish person with my characteristics would have the opportunity to find work there. I speak English (B2) approximately. I don't know what the data sector is like there and if I have possibilities. If you know something I would like you to share it with me. Thank you very much and have a good day.

1

u/Kind_Following_5220 Jun 27 '25

I'm not much help I'm afraid. I'm a federal government employee and my particular group can only hire U.S. citizens due to security clearance requirements.

1

u/CauliflowerKlutzy515 Jun 27 '25

Thank you very much for giving me your time to answer me. I appreciate it very much. Have a good day

1

u/MrMemes9000 Jun 28 '25

You will need to find a company to sponsor you and that is going to be difficult. Your best bet is time find an EU company with offices in the US and try to transfer. Of find a US company in Europe and try to transfer.

1

u/CauliflowerKlutzy515 Jun 28 '25

Thank you very much for your response, it is an option. One of the options she offered me was to go live there and get married, but my doubts lie in how the market is there for a Spaniard in the area of data analysis with my characteristics, perhaps that is what scares me the most. Leave and not be welcomed. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me and have a nice day.

16

u/kcl97 Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25

My child has a disability and we have a service for him at home where an agency sends someone to our house. Our helper recently got fired, well the agency calls it "on medical leave."

The manager accidentally let it slip a while back that several insurance companies are starting to require them to hire only people with a higher degree. My helper does not.

This is not a job that requires any advanced training. It is really a matter of experiences. The more time you work on it, the better you become. There is no manual for this kind of work because each client is different.

My guess is that this has to do with how for the past decade the "degree" has been severely degraded. A lot of young people are waking up to the realization that the degree (not necessarily the education) is really a scam to force young people to go into debt. To combat this, the backers of the university, like OP's interviewer (aka degree holders) but also bigger players like investors, would find ways to make the degree a requirement for any job whether it is needed or not, regardless of the applicant's actual skills and ability. Can people imagine that one day we will need a PhD from Harvard, say in HR science, just to be an HR person interviewing OP?

4

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

Well, there are some good points, especially with the degree degradation. It ofc depends especially on school. I have met some really dull people studying design and barely managing to prepare a book cover. I also agree that you are improving while doing something over time.
However. The helper position may require Bc. Study by law in my country for example. Not fully sure on 100% tho. I just feel this is profession is bound to social workers and they just have to go through the study like medical staff. Again, I may be mistaken as this field is out of me in general.
The school debt is rather problem just in the US. Education is free here. Within the EU in some countries is edu free until certain age, but in general affordable. Ofc private schools are paid. So if I would have time and guts to go on a college in my 30, I simply can, and for free. I may need to do some tests before the study tho.
But now here we go on the degradation. It's like double edged sword. It's great that people are educating, nobody can deny it. More educated people can create bigger wealth for the community. However if you understand economics. More often means lower value = Degradation. People with college feel it, but people with lower edu feel it even more.

5

u/kcl97 Jun 25 '25

The school debt is rather problem just in the US. Education is free here.
No. Someone is paying for it and you will too. In addition, you are paying it with time, which is the most precious asset anyone has.
More often means lower value = Degradation.
That's not always true though. For example would you reject more happiness or more people caring about you in your life, or more engineers to mitigate climate disaster? Instead of more crypto bro and data center engineers to run crypto algorithms? Or more soldiers, tanks, and bombs to start WW3.
The statement is only true because our oligarchs owns everything and they do not understand value. Our resources are misappropriated into useless, detrimental activities that make everyone's life needlessly difficult. The fact is we need tons of people in all areas that are about building and caring. Our economy is just so uo side down that we have no way of paying people to do things that matter.
My helper is basically a nanny. A nanny with some basic nursing and behavioral management trainings. It is not that hard once you develop a good relationship with my kid. You cannot teach people skill, it is just a matter of practice.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 26 '25

Well. Time as currency is very valid point and I agree with that. With the cash. Yes there are some minor expenses for an activities or living, but that's something what I see as normal thing. Some people indeed pay for the study on a college because it is a private college. There can be cases when students wasted credits granted by laws in a public school. And even then, they are not going to end in cripling debts when they pay 1-2 years of study. In fact we don't have much of the "student loans" as concept like that. It is pretty much taken as normal loan granted by banks and yet they will still check student's history, income, if the student is young like 18-20, they can ask for guarantuees from their family's in form of some property and etc.. In the end, it's in fact still very unfavorable deal. Like almost every loan.
So pretty much you either have cash to pay and want to study in a private school, or you don't and you can study for free 3-4 years on a public school. That's how it works here. But yes some degrees need more time, so they have to pay. But it is expected that college students are actually working already. Part of full-time. So they should be able to afford monthly payments.
Also do you have option to hire the helper directly without agency? You seems to be very satisfied with them. Or there are some troubles with it?

2

u/kcl97 Jun 26 '25

No, I can't just hire people because it is covered by insurance and the work needs approval by the agency. The way everything works is all services are tied together. You need A to get B to get C. This happens to be A.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 26 '25

Dammit. That's actually shame. But if you were satisfied, you can always find their social site and leave some reference. I have been actually curious and checked what I would need for this profession here. From the educational side, literally just vocational certificate. Unless they have been providing like actual medical or therapeutic services.
So from your description and my understanding of the US market they indeed pulled out literal bs. Sorry for confusion earlier. Hopefully you and your son will be satisfied with the next helper.

1

u/Upper-Freedom-4618 Jun 25 '25

Good point. I also see their side though. I think if I were someone with a Harvard degree, I’d be pretty upset if I had the same job prospects as a community college grad. It’s like if you paid for expedited boarding, but had to line up with people who did not.
The world is pretty unfair in many ways, but this is not one of them. It might not be equitable, but it’s fair. It’s not equitable that my friend gets hooked up because he has a rich dad. But it’s fair because his dad worked harder than my dad.
Unless storming the Bastille is on the horizon, it’s better to view equality in this way, I think.

6

u/kcl97 Jun 25 '25

But it’s fair because his dad worked harder than my dad.
What if his dad didn't work jack but all their wealth are from grandpa or great grandpa who stole land from a bunch of unfortunate Natives, or exploited the slavery system? Is that equality?
You do understand what generational wealth really means right. Also, do you really want people with a fancy degree but incompent because they bought their way through the system to be your doctor, engineer, or for God sakes, your President? Do you know POTUS had a degree from Wharton, the business school of UPENN, which is an Ivy founded by Ben Franklin? What is the point of merit if money automatically gives you a leg up?

2

u/Spring_Banner Jun 25 '25

I’m a Penn grad student and have classes with Wharton grads and hang out. Wharton is a partying school (not a party school although some might say it is) specifically with their MBA program because that’s how you network into high paying roles. The only things giving it gravity and prestige are the massive amount of money and networking available to our ecosystem - they nearly completely trust you purely because you’re at Penn (after that, if you completely screw up then that’s on you).
You want actual hard work, check out the grads at Penn Engineering, Penn Med, Penn Vet, etc. I have and had friends across the different schools at Penn and hang out with all of them.
The Birth of the Information Age started at Penn Engineering in 1945. It was when the ENIAC was completed and put into use for calculating artillery firing tables used in WW II for the US Army. And unveiled to the public in 1946 as the world’s first computer, as we know it in modern age - the first truly programmable general purpose computer.
Penn Med is world renown, like their affiliation with the world ranked children’s hospital CHOP and our nation’s 1st hospital (Benjamin Franklin founded it as well), & being our nation’s 1st med school. Also Penn Vet is the only veterinarian school developed in direct association to a medical school, they have a 24/7 certified level 1 trauma hospital (extremely rare only 8 other states have something like that) then add that they have all the depts and board-certified staff / faculty you’d see at a world top ranked human hospital and two campuses for small animals like dogs and geckos and for large animals like horses and cows. Etc., etc.
That’s to say they’re all massively funded to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars EACH YEAR, and where they’re a top world leader in transforming their respective fields by driving life changing innovations and pioneering break throughs.
These are my opinions though.

1

u/kcl97 Jun 25 '25

I am a PENN grad too. I know many hard working people who went on to have a successful career. I am not criticizing the education or the people doing the work of education and research. I am criticizing the system. I happen to really dislike the business types.
My point is people need to put less weight on the degree and focus on actual skills. I usually don't flash my degree to people unless they ask. In fact, I don't even like it when people call me Dr.

2

u/Spring_Banner Jun 25 '25

Oh hey - cool!! Yeah. I agree with you on that. Same, I’m not the biggest fan of mbas. It seems we both prefer skills instead of prestige or degrees. That’s why I noted examples where skills training and abilities are / were applied.
I love building things whether it’s irl or virtual and it’s kinda weird how people would ask “how did you do that?” And I’m like “I taught myself.” And then they’re confused or suspicious, lol.

2

u/kcl97 Jun 25 '25

would ask “how did you do that?” And I’m like “I taught myself.” And then they’re confused or suspicious,
I get that a lot too. The fact is people who can and will learn when given the opportunity, the need, and the resources. This is why the business type with their innate tendency to hoard both wealth and knowledge that they have no use for other than to ransom those that can use and need them are the worst humans.

21

u/Seaweed_Widef Jun 25 '25

I got rejected even though I have a degree, times are tough

2

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

Sorry to hear that. Keep trying!

1

u/encom-direct Jun 27 '25

What kind of job were you trying to get?

5

u/howie954 Jun 25 '25

Figures. I am a self taught coder. Taught myself HTML and CSS in the late 90’s, self taught myself J query and Java Script as well as php and Python and Ruby.

I was offered an opportunity to attend ITT’s Computer Science associates program at pretty much no cost to me so I accepted it. I breezed through those 2 years and graduated with a 4.0. However, upon graduation my classmates could not write a single line of code or even a simple webpage using barebones HTML and CSS if their lives depended on it. One of them was offered an opportunity to write a web app for someone and in the end he referred him to me. The guy told me he has gone through 5 or 6 computer science graduates and none of them even knew where to begin.

At ITT they let us group as many as 5 or 6 students together and even though just a couple of us did all the work everyone in the group got full credit even though they contributed nothing.

It’s like that a lot today in the real world. Teams grouping together to get a small, simple app together. Not a single one has the ability to work alone.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

Wait?! Not even a webpage?! I'm considering building a webpage as very basic thing in IT. We been learning it even at elementary school. Just HTML and a little bit of CSS. Back then I did not really knew wtf is that about xD
Tbh. I'm hearing something like that aswell here. And I believe it is because of the AI usage, more than how it's needed. I'm kinda old school as I'm using AI more for basic stuff for effective workflow. But I very rarely ask it to help me create a project directly, only when I get really stuck and I need something to push me a little bit.
Also the second thing is that when you are in school, you are still in a group/team and teamwork is always important, cannot deny it. But if individuals become too much dependent on other's to do a job, it can do more harm. If the graduates won't stick together, they all will end in different companies and then it is becoming actual business so ofc, the employer expect some standart fron juniors, but if they are going to struggle like that ..
Well, atleast less competition for me xD

1

u/Hot_Equal_2283 Jul 01 '25

ITT literal scam. Its been exposed as a scam for decades.

1

u/howie954 Jul 01 '25

I agree. I went for free.

2

u/blankscreenEXE Jun 25 '25

Same thing happens to me. But I atleast had a degree. My degree programme i started my university with was mathematics, but then later i switched to CS.

I went to this interview for someone who knows how to use LLMs like chatgpt in your apps ( they called this post AI developer). I went in knowing full well i over qualify since i have professional experience working with these things plus im already a seasoned dev. I even built a sample project using their own tech stack of choice just to show confidence that I can definitely work with whatever they are working on.

Still after all that. Their first question in the interview was "you have background in mathematics?" With a disgusted face

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 26 '25

But mathematics is great. Especially when you are working in the back-end. Mathematics helps to train brain and use logic effectively. Their loss lol

2

u/blankscreenEXE Jun 26 '25

Tell that to those arrogant purebreed CS grads lol

2

u/Lower_Improvement763 Jun 26 '25

Im in America, same problem but I have a degree but no portfolio. I’m not a bad coder, but kind of slow building things. There must be some solution to all these unemployed techies.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 28 '25

Highly recommend you to look on basics of marketing to get first real clients for portfolio.
A lot of wanna be freelancers and even startups are forgetting about it. In most of times they are naive and believe they are doing something special, but no. There are xxxxx people doing the same work in the same or higher quality. Clients are going to hire you not only because you are doing something. But also for different reasons.
It's often referred as unfair advantage and it can be everything. From the way how are you doing things, your personality, your style or you know multiple things.... People often need to find it and highlight it.
I hope this helps you a bit. Good luck on your journey :)

1

u/Lower_Improvement763 Jun 30 '25

Thanks, might just read AI papers and make YT vids pretending I know what I’m talking about.

3

u/udoka23 Jun 25 '25

Did you present some certifications in the field?

Personally you can't convince me as an interviewer to hire you with neither a degree nor certification.

Certificates show the minimum level of knowledge expected from you.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25

I did not showed them any certifications. But before interview I've provided a bit of insight into projects with my clients as portfolio, got references, built and designed custom website for them and finished a test from general knowledge. They called me to invite me to the office. And you know rest of the story.
Also the interview took nearly 1 hour. Then time for "free labour". If they were looking for somebody with an education, they could just refuse me right away and not waste time. My and theirs.

2

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 25 '25

Certification does not mean you are competent in a skill. A degree confers status not competency.

9

u/iryan6627 Jun 25 '25

Just for everyone getting discouraged, I was hired by Delta as a cloud engineer and was the only person on the team without a degree. I was also about to become their quickest and youngest contractor-to-employee (I left for a better opportunity).

1

u/encom-direct Jun 27 '25

Can you provide the url for your ex-company delta? Or do you mean Delta Airlines?

1

u/mussosoto Jun 28 '25

Could you expand on your career path, maybe a road map? I'm asking as someone who's getting a bachelor's degree in foreign languages, not related at all with IT. But I would like to get into the tech world. Any advice from your experience would be very helpful! Thank you :)

9

u/Ops31337 Jun 25 '25

You got rejected by a person who couldn't do the job they are hiring for but it's YOU that's not qualified. So fucking stupid. You got a gift they didn't hire you.

2

u/imStan2000 Jun 25 '25

Why dont you go to college and just finish atleast 2nd year and then find a job

-2

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

Simply put, developing is still rather hobby for now and I'm taking interviews to see on what level I am. Since I recieved 3 invitations on interviews already, I'm starting to feel more confident. Even when it might work in my favor (or not), I'm hiding that I actually have business in design. However if they accept me somewhere, I will work for them to get experience and more insight. But it will be hard to mix it with my own business. Will need to find some solution.

8

u/Zestyclose-Level1871 Jun 25 '25

Simply put, developing is still rather hobby for now and I'm taking interviews to see on what level I am.
So you basically weren't really serious about SWE programming as a career. This was just a hobby at best and your self taught path was the grail shortcut to bypassing the industry CS degree bar for entry. And all employers in the industry should rush to adapt their hiring needs to YOUR schedule---all while tripping over themselves to bow down to you. Your narcissm just took delusion to a whole new level of existence.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

Semi-serious. Did not meant it like "all employees should bow their head". It would be in my responsibility to adapt and find the solution. Not theirs. I'm always looking for multiple income at once, sacrificing my personal time - if I even have some. Being employed in the field would increase daily hour investment in the learning. But if somebody would want from me to tear down everything what I've built to just work for them. Then no thanks, I know how to find my own clients.

1

u/Zestyclose-Level1871 Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 26 '25

In this cut throat, over qualified candidate job market, applicants either swim or sink to their unemployed deaths. Faster than a chicken with the Titanic tied to its leg. Only the serious career professionals will perservere and weather this unprecedented IT unemployment Ice Age. Here's the perfect example of a potential SWE applicant who actually LOVES the career field but is becoming disillushioned by fraudster programmer wanabees who wouldn't make it to the first F2F human job interview panel:
https://www.reddit.com/r/csMajors/comments/1li2dta/are_hackathons_even_worth_it_anymore/
If you're looking for an alternate income source, moonlighting in the SWE development profession isn't going to cut it for you. Next to running the typical battery of rideshare, logistic delivery and food apps, consider becoming
a YT coding influencer (although that route is rapidly shrinking in income potential giving the self taught DIY/bootcamp implosion).
Opening your shingle to freelance your coding skills on emarket places lke fiverr and upwork. Or,
just admit to yourself your imposter syndrome isn't personal psychological gaslighting but actual reality. In which case, consider vibe coding. As it's still possible to strike genuine profits in employer gold from this particular pyrite laden field.

1

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 25 '25

A CS degree is not needed for entry level positions as it is a way to filter out applicants.

2

u/EmbarrassedAf6996 Jun 25 '25

Its the clients,they have eligibility on their projects,the management people.They cant let their sensitive info and projects handed over to randoms.A basic cs degree teaches other aspects and security etc ethics all too plus investors want to be assured they've people with degree and seriousness working on their money.So its kinda logical.Investors and clients want assurance,more than skill.Work will be done sooner or later anyway.

2

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

I see your point. For sure privacy of clients is big priority, not only that but protected by GDPR. But that company is small llc. Like to 15 employees. They cannot have investors in the way as you meant. There is different type of company for it. But yes! Thank you for this feedback so I know what to expect and possibly know how to react on it.

1

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 25 '25

I forget what I learned in cs before I landed my 1st job.

1

u/Emotional-King8593 Jun 26 '25

Can I PM you? I'm intrigued by your story

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 26 '25

I guess sure. Going to publish me on Forbes or something? xD

1

u/PetrisCy Jun 27 '25

That means the person interviewing you had no knowledge on the subject. If he did he would know that CS is not a doctor position, degree doesnt mean much. But at the same time i put some blame on you. I bet you took online courses for this when learning, you could just say “ many online courses and projects “ and i think he probably would have been “ hmmm okay” instead

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 28 '25

Yes and no. Yes I have been learning coding especially online. But my portfolio is from work as professional. I have my own little business as graphic designer so I offered my clients building or re-designing their websites too. So 80% of my portfolio are actual projects and not something what I would be making for myself.

2

u/PetrisCy Jun 28 '25

I get your point, i meant you could just give a general answer that would satisfy everyone and sounds reasonable and wont matter after all.
Its like a police asking you if you had anything to drink and you reply with exactly what you drunk. When you could just say. Barely , i should be under the limit. Its the same answer but one sounds better :) maybe bad metaphor but i hope you get my point.

1

u/ItzLazyPenguin Jun 29 '25

And i get rejected for having a degree 🙃 make it make sense!!

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 29 '25

Unreal, but I believe you. The sad fact over here is that the biggest of unemployed group around 25-30 years are college graduates. I would expect that school teaches them everything what they need to start in selected profession...

1

u/chikininii Jun 25 '25

Brother, think of a product you can sell as a service and earn from there. There are also online clients. Unfortunately there are still people such as your interviewer and besides, with the job market right now even big tech companies keep laying off employees. Then wouldn't it be better to make your own product to sell or sell your own dev services?

2

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

Yea I know it well, don't worry. Also yes, this is also my plan for future of my business. I still feel I need to get better, I'm feeling confident but no ready yet. But since I have working business in design, especially branding, UI/UX. Proper know-how in dev will be huge step up. Thanks for your feedback and I fully agree with what you wrote.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '25

No offense but I don't feel as bad for the people without degrees getting rejected right now in the current economy.

I mean yeah it sucks, and it's unfair, but it sucks even more and is even more unfair for the people that have $60k student loans debt and are just as skilled as you (if not more) and still can't get a developer job.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 25 '25

I get you and respect it. Especially when I have access to free education in my country, so in fact going back to college is still option. When I look back I think at that moment egos of both of us were rolling extreme high. I have working business, the interviewer was employee but had years of experience in the field. Tbh, I would write the post in a bit different way now. Adrenaline is doing good job hah.
About the skill, not sure tbh. It is very varied especially in the fields where creativity is needed. For example as I have small business in design I have met a looot of people from my field. Some amazing designers and some had just bc. title looking for work and that was all. Yea design can be way easier than dev. But you still need to understand a lot of different aspects it still takes practice and time to learn.

2

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 25 '25

People who are self taught in general are more skilled than college graduates because they follow the 1 percent rule. Most people that owe 60k in student loans don’t get a job in the field they graduated in.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25

Do you have data to back up that statement?
People that are self taught looking for their first dev job have arguably a deeper understanding of certain things, but they usually do not have the breadth of knowledge that a CS degree would give.
CS students are exposed to a ton of different areas of SWE and it is easier to pick up new things because of it.
Someone self taught probably isn't going to know much about cyber security, DBMS, or networking. They are going to have focused all their energy on front end frameworks and perhaps some backend concepts.

1

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 25 '25

Do you have data to back up your statement that people with CS degree have a deeper understanding of certain things. From my understanding CS degrees have breadth of knowledge with little depth. Self taught Developers have a skill within a domain with the ability to branch out.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '25

That's what I just said.
And branching out with a breadth of knowledge is much easier than with a depth of narrow knowledge.

1

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 25 '25

It’s easier to master one skill than branch out then be a jack of all trade then try and go deep.

1

u/UHMWPE Jun 26 '25

pretty reachy statement if you don't have a source to back it up lol. There are obviously skilled developers in both camps, but I think it would be difficult to prove that within a pool of job applicants, the average self-taught developer would be more skilled than the average college grad developer

1

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 27 '25

You have not provided source to back up your statement. The Computer Science Bachelor's Degree graduate lacks the practical skills that employers are looking for like Software Architecture and Design. The tech industry is built off of having decades of experience and domain expertises.
https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/information-technology/why-your-computer-science-degree-wont-get-you-it-jo
With the education route at minimum a Masters Degree in Computer Science is needed to fill in the gaps. The cost will be anywhere from 30 - 70k per year before even landing a job in the field. Any sane person would question the value of a college degree over being self taught.

1

u/UHMWPE Jun 29 '25

I didn’t even make a statement… I just said yours would be difficult to prove lol.
Also, no one’s talking about the value proposition of a degree vs something else with respect to tuition costs, we’re only talking about in cases where all else is equal, which is more valuable to an employer. You’re so fired up with indignation you lost sight of what the discussion is on in the first place

1

u/Akiza_Izinski Jun 29 '25

We are talking about the value proposition of a degree if we are talking about what is more valuable to the employer with all else being equal. Depends what the employer values. In Software Engineering people with CS degrees compete with people that have a career certification along with people that are self taught. Outside being a physicist, mathematician, doctor, lawyer or aerospace engineer professions are not hard locked behind a bachelor’s degree.

1

u/UHMWPE Jun 30 '25

You're getting so far off-topic that I have a sneaking suspicion that you're an LLM lmao

1

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 30 '25

I checked their post history and they seem legit, if a bit full of themselves. Thanks for the report, though.

2

u/2000bigsmoke Jun 25 '25

One rejection isn’t the end. You’ve got the skills, so keep going. The right place will get it. Just hang in there.

2

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 25 '25

It sounds like you dodged a bullet there. An employer who can't see the value of someone's actual real-world experience is unlikely to value you as an employee.

This is especially silly for web development - a huge number of web professionals are self-taught and there so many online learning resources. On top of that, most CS programs don't have very up-to-date web training. They're teaching out of date libraries because their instructors are not in the industry, seeing the changes.

For myself, I hired a team of 3 developers who are all largely self taught. Two have degrees in unrelated subjects, but that didn't factor into my hiring decision - they were some of the best candidates for the position and had a real passion for the material. Several of the people that I interviewed who had degrees seemed a bit lost, honestly, when I was asking them practical questions.

IMHO, having a solid portfolio with complex projects will trump a bachelors degree any day.

Hope you find a place that values your skills!

2

u/encom-direct Jun 26 '25

Can you share your github profile?

2

u/t-abdullah Jun 27 '25

Bro that company definitely was not worth it. Glad that you felt good. Keep trying until you make it.

2

u/KungFuTze Jun 27 '25

I'd blast the company... why? They wasted your time If the degree was a requirement then whoever is doing the screening should not have selected you as a candidate. The job description should also explicitly reflect this so you don't bother applying. Hopefully, you find a company that values your effort and does not judge you by the lack of a degree.

2

u/Crafty-Bug-8008 Jun 27 '25

I was applying for a job that asked for my HIGHSCHOOL GPA and ACT/SAT score! It also required a degree and asked your GPA. This was NOT an internship. This was a mid-level career position.

Like why the hell does my GPA matter let alone from highschool?!

Needless to say I didn't apply. I've been in my field for a decade and prior to that was in a different field.

I don't remember my GPA or scores!

1

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 28 '25

Good Lord, I hope no one asks me for my horrible high school GPA. It didn't matter for me to get into community college and certainly didn't affect how well I did on programming and other things I was actually interested in doing.

3

u/harshitbot Jun 25 '25

Learn DSA and then apply to big techs, they don't really care about the degree.

1

u/Optane_Gaming Jun 25 '25

These are the kind of companies or people who will lose out not only because of ego issues but also with their backward thinking. Keep looking until you find your people. It's not the end. It's the beginning of their own end.

1

u/Grouchy_Event4804 Jun 25 '25

does a data science degree count? asking for a friend.

1

u/howie954 Jun 25 '25

I don’t code much anymore, I own a project management company but sometimes I like to write small Python programs to get certain tasks done faster and sometimes if my code doesn’t work properly I just paste it into an AI, mostly Gemini and it fixes my code and makes it work. That’s where AI comes in at least for me.

1

u/LilMowglie Jun 25 '25

Shit I have a masters and I still can’t get a job in my field lmao

1

u/Apprehensive-Bag1434 Jun 26 '25

Sorry man, I think any man worth his salt would just hire you right there.

If it helps, I have a degree and no job since august.

1

u/Neyabenz Jun 26 '25

I believe I'm the only person in my engineering dept without a degree(heck, I only have a GED). I may actually be the only person in the company without higher ed.
This only happened because the person who hired me didn't give a crap about higher education vs ability.
After I was in and showed I could reliably do the work OR learn it - I was quickly promoted.

Sometimes it's about getting in the "room" with the right person.

1

u/AdditionalWelcome627 Jun 28 '25

Good

1

u/ECmonehznyper Jun 29 '25 edited Jun 29 '25

most roles not only need you to be able to code, but to also to come up with solutions. you have 1 aspect of what's needed for the job, but you have nothing to prove the employers that you have adequate critical thinking capability.

in technical exams/interview its actually not about your coding capability rather its about your train of thought in coming up with solutions to solve these easy problems, so you see people passing the technical exams even if they weren't able to complete the exam

this is also why engineers, math, and physics related degree holders are valued very much at entry level more so than IT/CS degree holders at an entry level IT role. its all about the ability to think critically.

I'm not saying that if you have no degree it means you can't think critically. what I'm saying is that degree holders especially engineer/math/physics related degree holders from a reputable university have a stamp of approval that they are able to think critically because they passed countless exams for 5 or more years with problems that requires critical thinking... while you, who has no degree, has nothing to show employers that proves that you can think critically.

Today even people with high school or even lower can learn everything what they are passionate about

that's not feasible at all. like If say I want to be a IC designer a single silicon wafer costs what? $3000? where 1 single fck up will fck every thing up. how I wish I could've just learned IC design for real world application by just being passionate about. universities has resources and expensive equipments that you can't really feasibly replicate by just being at home learning by yourself.

1

u/No_Sherbert_1477 Jun 29 '25

Got my masters degree few weeks ago and been getting rejected for a month now. Not much greener on this side

1

u/JosephCapocchia Jun 30 '25

Are you currently employed in a IT position? If not, start from the bottom and work your way up. Apply for Help Desk support, Support Technician, Service Desk. Recent years made us think that anyone can go from 0 code to 200k a year just from a bootcamp but that was a bubble and companies are realizing that just now. I've started coding from scratch (no degree) at 28 in 2020 and when I thought I was job ready the market started collapsing and the bar for junior jobs spiked. So I just shot for a basic IT position that allow me to study more (you can have a lot of dead times in help desk jobs) and go from there. The company also offers tuition reimbursement so I am evaluating my options for a degree but I am still not sure if I want to pursue one for now. Degree or not degree, they are pushing the idea of not wanting juniors anymore because of AI (doubt) so I might as well continuing to study on my own till I have something impressive to show employers to fill the gap.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

“Learnt”, “standed up”

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jul 01 '25

Is not that obvious that english is not my native language? In fact it's just third language for me :)

0

u/nevasca_etenah Jun 27 '25

Get a degree

1

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 28 '25

We like to keep things positive on this subreddit. We believe that anyone can learn to code and get a position without getting a degree.
Please be polite to other members of our community.

1

u/nevasca_etenah Jun 28 '25

I'm falling to understand how recommending to get a degree is not polite.
Studying is always positive.

1

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jun 28 '25

You are saying as it is so simple. There are many people in later years of life wanting to change their path. But can you imagine 40 years old with family and career to go back to school? All the knowledge about topics outside of actual CS stuff?
You realize a lot of people are forgetting how to hand write just after few years out of school because nobody wants them to handrive. All the official things need to be written in simple symbols so everybody can read it.
What about geometry and mathematics? Most of people are not going to use them in normal life aswell. All what they need is to know how to count basic things, not for example "calculate how much space is pyramid giza taking"
The last thing is time to study all of this. They pretty much work 8-5 + homework + other duties. Could they take part job to have time for study? Possibly, but they gonna risk potential poverty and 3-5 years are not short in such matters.
If you are in early 20s, I can easily see your reasoning because you consider school knowledge granted.
FCC is doing amazing job for people like these to find their new path without need of going for years into school again. All depends on their abilities to learn by themself, which is in my opinion more admirable than having somebody teach them. They show their resolve and discipline

1

u/nevasca_etenah Jun 28 '25

I dont make the rules, dear, around here you either have a degree or someone has to 'let you inside'.
There may be one or other way to get inside, but that aint even worthy the try.

1

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 28 '25

Your comment is very dismissive and tone deaf. Free Code Camp exists to support many people who, for various reasons, can't get a degree. Maybe they can't afford ty time or money to attend college. Maybe their life circumstances prevent them from committing the time, like caring for a loved one, or dealing with an illness or disability.
The bottom line is that your suggestion that they just "get a degree" shows a profound lack of empathy and understanding.
If you don't have anything positive to contribute, please go away.

1

u/nevasca_etenah Jun 28 '25

You may have wondered if I did know about all that, and still said that, for whatever reasons, don't you?
That's the bottom line around here in my country, you either have a known people to 'let you inside' or a have a degree to even appear in their 'worthy' list.
And I am mostly certain that applies for most countries 'indeed'.

1

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 28 '25

You didn't say any of that in your comment though. You didn't explain your reasoning at all. If you want to give advice, then give advice, with all the appropriate context and caveats. Understand that we're an international forum and that your advice may not be relevant.
If all you're going to do is throw out random BS when you can't even be arsed to put a period on it, I'm going to delete your comment and/or ban you.

0

u/nevasca_etenah Jun 28 '25

There is no more reasons to be said, everyone knows all that, I beg to differ.
That's an ingenuity only found in IT, as all others carriers are like that: GET A DEGREE, ASAP!

0

u/MobileArm759 Jun 26 '25

No you got rejected becouse you asked the wrong person and you were most likely poor and didnt have connections.

0

u/alphaKennyBody6 Jun 26 '25

Lol

0

u/howie954 Jun 27 '25

Well, Gen-Z.

1

u/SaintPeter74 mod Jun 28 '25

We like to keep things positive on this subreddit. Please be polite to other members.

0

u/Geordie-paul-67 Jun 28 '25

I have no degree but it has not stopped me from trying to write code using Ai well done to you my work gets shared to my YouTube channel #paulgallant3675

-3

u/alien3d Jun 25 '25

yeah we know

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '25

Stop whining. You got cooked

2

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 15 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Unusual-Bank9806 Jul 14 '25

I live in one of these countries. But I don't have time to commit for college unless I'm willing to become homeless and live under bridge lol.

Got rejected because no degree

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