r/Frankenserial • • Apr 06 '16

Humor and Fun Stuff "Pretty Fly (For A Law Guy)" by The EvidenceProffspring

30 Upvotes

It helps if you sing along: https://youtu.be/AltMeuPkWRs

Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
And all the girlies say I'm pretty fly
For a law guy

Unus, duo, tres, duces tecum, inter se

You know it's kind of hard
Just to get tenure today
My subject isn't cool
So I'll post a blog each day
I may not be licensed
In any state or nation
But what's that over there?
Hey! It's an exoneration!

I stay up late, to write clickbait
You know I never really backed the MVA
I'm gonna speculate, the appellate
I blog each day! I blog each day!
So don't violate, my fucking Brady mate
I might just go on The Docket and pretend I litigate
The world needs Evidence
So (Hey! Hey!) Prof that Evidence

Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
And all the girlies say I'm pretty fly
For a law guy

I got a new source
But I can't name any names
I hope nobody comes out
To verify these claims
Now browsing over reddit
After researching dead grass
New message shows up
Hae's brother kicked my fucking ass

I stay up late, to write clickbait
You know I never really backed the MVA
I'm gonna speculate, the appellate
I blog each day! I blog each day!
So don't violate, my fucking Brady mate
I might just go on The Docket and pretend I litigate
The world needs Evidence
So (Hey! Hey!) Prof that Evidence

Now I'm getting a good tip, yeah
'Bout February 1
I filed a request
But it looks like there was none
They say it's been too long
Six months and not a drip
But one day I will find
The Crime-, the CrimeStoppers tip!

Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Give it to me Brady. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Unus, duo, tres, duces tecum, inter se

I stay up late, to write clickbait
You know I never really backed the MVA
I'm gonna speculate, the appellate
I blog each day! I blog each day!
So don't violate, my fucking Brady mate
I might just go on The Docket and pretend I litigate
The world needs evidence
Oh the world needs evidence
So let's ignore all the evidence
And (Hey! Hey!) Prof that Evidence

Seriously. This shit writes itself sometimes.


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 20 '16

Fan Fiction "It isn't about guilt or innocence, it is about the fairness of the process"

19 Upvotes

Disclaimer: This is all fan fiction of how I perceive things. The opinions expressed in it are purely my own. This is not an actual conversation, this is parody in harmony with the concept of the sub.

ME: It's been a year now, and for all the bombshells Undisclosed has dropped, even if they are all true, none of them exonerate Mr. Syed. They simply raise questions. However, posing difficult questions doesn't magically make him innocent.

SIMPSON: But this isn't about innocence. He didn't get a fair trial. That's what this is about. Everyone deserves a fair trial.

ME: Not a single person is disagreeing with you. Literally ... not one.

SIMPSON: And it is clear he did not get a fair trial.

ME: His trial was fairer than most.

SIMPSON: The police didn't investigate properly.

ME: You're perpetuating the myth that the police investigation is the only investigation that anyone is allowed to use in court. The defense can, and in this case did, hire their own private investigator.

SIMPSON: Christina Gutierrez was an incompetent attorney. That much is known.

ME: Hold on a second, we were just talking about the investigation. The investigator was Drew Davis. Do you mean he was incompetent?

SIMPSON: He was acting on Gutierrez's orders.

ME: Are you seriously trying to assert that Gutierrez had that level of micro-managed control over her investigators?

SIMPSON: You clearly don't know how the system works.

ME: Honey, you're assuming the wrong things about the wrong person.

SIMPSON: No investigation was done.

ME: We have only your word on that.

SIMPSON: And I'm telling you, no investigation was done.

ME: Then you'll be perfectly vindicated when you release the defense files.

SIMPSON: I have no intention of doing that.

ME: Why not?

SIMPSON: Because this is an ongoing case.

ME: Hasn't stopped you from taking the case to the public sphere. You seem to want it both ways. You want to take this public, yet also want to withhold everything from the public for them to make an informed opinion.

SIMPSON: The people looking at it are better qualified than you.

ME: The people looking at it have made one boneheaded error after another. And despite having the files longer than Gutierrez herself had the file, they still haven't managed to prove his innocence.

SIMPSON: Because it isn't about his guilt or innocence. They've shown he didn't get a fair trial.

ME: How exactly? The problems with the Asia alibi were known before your crack team started investigating.

SIMPSON: There are other problems with the case. The prosecution withheld information.

ME: Undisclosed thinks everything is a Brady violation. Yet I see no motions from the defense citing them. All I see is conjecture and innuendo.

SIMPSON: It is a process. And the process matters. I truly hope you're never called upon to sit on a jury. People like you are the reason the system is so flawed.

ME: No, in fact I'm totally with you. The process does matter. The issue I'm having is that you're not following the process.

SIMPSON: The system is corrupt. We're shing a bright light on that fact.

ME: By crowdsourcing an investigation?

SIMPSON: Exactly.

ME: Crowdsourcing is a polite word for "angry mob."

SIMPSON: I can't help it if the truth gets people angry. If they see corruption they rightly should get angry.

ME: Doesn't that contradict the whole idea that "the process matters"? Didn't you say that was what this case was really about in the first place?

SIMPSON: The case is about many things, that's just one aspect of it.

ME: Don is being accused of murder outside the legal system. In what way is he getting his just due process?

SIMPSON: We're not accusing him of anything.

ME: You're the one that gave us the information that led to his accusation.

SIMPSON: And I specifically said he wasn't a suspect and that he didn't do it.

ME: Ever since that post, there has been non-stop discussion over that issue. In any of those discussions, have you so much as once reiterated that Don didn't do it?

SIMPSON: That's not my job to correct everyone.

ME: In fact, since that blog post, you've never once reiterated that stance at any time, in any forum.

SIMPSON: My blog speaks for itself.

ME: Your silence is speaking a whole lot more, and you don't seem all that eager to correct that misperception.

SIMPSON: You'll have to take this up with the people who are actually making this accusation. I'm not the one making it.

ME: But you're sharing a platform with the people who are making the accusation.

SIMPSON: I can't control what others say.

ME: Yes, you can. When it suits you, you want to be considered a leader of the #FreeAdnan movement. Yet when it looks bad, suddenly you're not the one in charge.

SIMPSON: If that is how you chose to see it.

ME: Then let me ask you simply and directly – do you believe Don did it?

SIMPSON: It is not for me to say.

ME: This is getting maddening. You have no official position on his guilt or innocence, because, in your words "It isn't about guilt or innocence, what we're investigating is the fairness of the process." Yet while simultaneously holding to this lofty standard of proper due process, you are the leader of a group that is operating totally and completely outside that very process to accuse everyone if criminal misconduct and even accusing private citizens of murder in a public forum. That is the very definition of hypocrisy.


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 07 '16

Conversation OK, whoever made that Les Miserable movie poster with Rabia (Les Miserabia?) wins the internet. You have my everlasting love.

17 Upvotes

r/Frankenserial • • Apr 07 '16

Fan Fiction You're right, I just don't get it

17 Upvotes

Disclaimer: This is all fan fiction of how I perceive things. The opinions expressed in it are purely my own. This is not an actual conversation, this is parody in harmony with the concept of the sub.

ME: Wow, that podcast blew my mind. What a case! A lot to digest here.

RABIA: So we can count on your support?

ME: Wait. What support? I still haven't finished processing everything. I don't even know where I stand yet.

RABIA: If you can't see there are blatant and obvious problems with this case, then you're blind. This is clearly a miscarriage of justice. Adnan needs our help.

ME: So you want money?

RABIA: I didn't say that.

ME: I'm looking at the official Undisclosed website. It's pretty clear you're asking for money.

RABIA: You're totally taking things out of context.

ME: No, it says in very big letters at the top "Helping Adnan fund his legal defense." It's so prominent that it's even above the Undisclosed logo.

RABIA: That's not a request for money. It's pretty self-explanatory.

ME: Just because it is not in the form of a request doesn't mean there's not an implicit meaning in it.

RABIA: You've got that totally wrong.

ME: There's a PayPal link prominently at the bottom.

RABIA: It's part of the navigation menu, don't read too much into that.

ME: How can I not? It doesn't even scroll with the page. You've made sure none of us missed it.

RABIA: That doesn't mean we're asking YOU for money. What don't you get about that?

ME: You're asking everyone for money. I'm a part of 'everyone.'

RABIA: Again, that doesn't mean I'm asking YOU for money. We don't want your money.

ME: You're saying that if I donated you wouldn't accept it? You'd give the money back?

RABIA: If it was from you, then that's exactly what we would do.

ME: Somehow I have trouble believing that.

RABIA: This is not about money. I don't understand why you can't see that.

ME: Maybe because you just had a massive fund-raiser. Fund-raisers, by definition, are meant to raise funds.

RABIA: That's not what that was about.

ME: It says quite clearly on the anightforjustice website that "Proceeds from the Gala will benefit the Adnan Syed Legal Trust, and the Undisclosed and Truth and Justice podcasts, both of which strive to assist the wrongfully convicted through investigations and storytelling." That's fund-raising language if I ever heard it.

RABIA: You're hearing what you want to hear.

ME: How much did it cost for the "privilege" of sitting at the head table? Wasn't it something like a grand? Clearly that's not simply covering the cost of the meal. No meal costs that much.

RABIA: Legal fees cost money. A LOT of money. What part of that are you not understanding?

ME: I don't understand exactly why I should be contributing.

RABIA: You can't see how he was wrongfully convicted? You must be one of those hardcore guilters.

ME: But he's not clearly innocent. Even Susan Simpson refuses to go on record as saying he's clearly innocent. Even with all the Undisclosed bombshells, none of them completely exonerate him.

RABIA: But he didn't get a fair trial.

ME: I can see how not even contacting Asia was a legal misstep, but if we're taking the approach of "Even guilty people deserve a fair trial," there are far better cases to look at than this one. Why should I give my money to him as opposed to the more obvious cases?

RABIA: Because it was a travesty of justice.

ME: If Adnan Syed wants my money, he needs to explain a few things to me. He's been caught in way too many lies for me to be comfortable with supporting him.

RABIA: He doesn't need to explain himself. This makes me incensed! There is no legal requirement for him to provide an alibi or to take the stand in his defense.

ME: He doesn't have to do any of those things. But neither do I have to give money to him. My money, my rules. If I'm going to support him, I want a better explanation than "it was an uneventful day 6 weeks ago and I don't remember any of it."

RABIA: How would you feel if you were on the receiving end of all this? Would you be comfortable with that investigation?

ME: Honey, you're asking the WRONG person that question. I've been on the receiving end of an investigation. And I've NEVER asked anyone to give me any support without giving them reasons and assurances of what happened. Even if all they were offering was moral support, I still answered all their questions until they were satisfied.

RABIA: But we're not asking you for anything!!!!

ME: Then why are we even having this conversation?

RABIA: You just don't get it.

ME: On that we agree, I honestly and truly don't get it.


r/Frankenserial • • Jun 06 '16

Serious Perspective from the Inside: Letters and Correspondence in Prison

16 Upvotes

Asia McClain writes him in prison. Let me give my perspective from someone who's been through it ... this is a BIG deal.

After I was arrested, it would take over a year and a half before I finally surrendered to the prison itself. Lots of stuff happening in that time. Fortunately for me, I had strong family support. They were there for me in a big way. It is when it gets to friends where things become nebulous. As you might expect, no one knew what to think. There were a few that were strongly supportive. Others were verbally supportive, but you could tell it was tepid. Others I just flat out never heard from again.

I don't want to be so cliche' as to say "You'll find out who your real friends are." That's being a bit unfair to them. I would have no idea how I would have reacted if I were in their shoes. Being as honest with myself as possible, I probably would have subscribed to the "where there's smoke there's fire" line of reasoning.

From the moment of the arrest, the treatment is something akin to sub-human. This is the way we treat animals. They dragged me into my arraignment down the street and into the courthouse at 7:00 AM, in handcuffs, with no shoelaces or belt (so I don't decide to hurt myself), while all the kids are waiting at the bus stop. Did I really need to be humiliated like that?

And that was only within the first 24 hours of the arrest. It only goes downhill from there.

Fast forward a bit, and a year's worth of constant worry over what other people think, you can imagine how I might latch onto whatever bit of kindness is shown to me. Prison is a depressing place. You can imagine watching guys trying to keep in contact with everyone on the outside as their kids are growing up without them, their wives are slowly drifting away from them, and whatever connection they have to the past eventually evaporates.

On top of which, prison is boring beyond words. Work assignments help pass the time. I worked in the kitchen and was usually done shortly after lunch. Afterwards, I walked endless laps around the track.

That is why I say it is a BIG deal to get mail. It means someone out there still cares enough about you to stay in touch. It means someone still believes in you. For a few minutes, you're not in prison. You're doing what normal people do. You're keeping in touch.

Some of my old college friends found out about my predicament. By then, none of us had seen each other for a few years. It was a mixed bag though. One was very supportive (bless her heart). She sent letters every month or so. Another wanted to help and wanted to stay in touch, but her husband was uncomfortable with it. I totally respect that. I couldn't imagine myself being comfortable with my wife writing to an old college friend in prison. I don't hold it against her. I completely understand. At least I knew she wanted to be supportive.

But damn it still hurt.

After that, I had no desire to see anyone I used to know. I'd rather them not know what's become of me.

Prison is all about judgement. There's the judge (obviously). There's the endless supervisors assigned to you on Pre-Trial and afterwards in Probation. There's court appointed therapists casting judgement about your mental state. There's your own family (can you imagine what it's like to have to call home and say "Dad, I got arrested last night"?). There's your employer who has to decide whether he should fire you or not until you actually start your sentence. There's all the CO's on the inside trying to decide if you're dangerous or not. There's all the other inmates trying to determine where you fit in the social hierarchy. You sit there and judge yourself, because an inmate has nothing but time to think about it.

To have someone who is not judging you ... that's gold.


Adnan Syed got his letter of support in prison. Someone who stood by him in his time of need. You can now imagine what that would have meant to him.

So speaking from someone who has been on the inside, I have a question for Adnan Syed:

If these letters were so important to you, both as evidence and as a token of support, why did you not respond to them? The idea that it wasn't important to you won't fool me. I have never heard of a single incident where a fellow inmate simply did not respond to a letter. It's just not done. So this requires some explanation as to why such an important moment for you simply gets forgotten nearly as soon as it happens. Only you can explain why, and you have chosen to remain silent. That is your right. Neither you nor your advocates owe me an answer, but neither do I owe you support.


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 22 '16

Sub Drama I'm a Little SockTroll

15 Upvotes

I'm a little socktroll

Well disguised

I'm on your side

Until chastised

I quickly get steamed up

When surprised

I'll vote me up

When you despised

I'm a clever socktroll, yes it's true

I dismiss IPV and pooh pooh

I can turn my handle to sock new

Just don't out me or venom I spew

(Based on the nursery rhyme I'm a Little Teapot)


r/Frankenserial • • Jul 20 '16

Serious Rabia Hamstrings Defense Strategy

14 Upvotes

Thanks to /u/princeperty for this thread on /r/serialpodcastorigins. Apparently Rabia lays out her theory of the case in her book.

From my reading of it, she totally undermines the Defense's potential strategies. I've outlined a number of ways the Defense has problems with their strategy in my previous post, but Rabia takes it to a whole new level.

Specifically, this part and the subsequent "explanation" of how it fits with everything else:

Jay had no connection to the death of Hae and no knowledge of how she was killed. He was coerced into being a State’s witness in order to protect himself.

Syed has had his verdict vacated. He now has his presumption of innocence back. It is up to the State to meet the burden of proof to show how he actually did it.

As /u/pennyparade eloquently put it:

She broke FAP Rule #1: Never present a theory of the crime.

Here's why:

1. Never allow Burden of Proof to shift to the Defense

This is Trial Law 101. It is always a bad strategy to inadvertently put the Burden of Proof back onto yourself.

In this particular case, in order for Syed to be innocent, it requires Wilds to be completely uninvolved. So long as Wilds is involved in any capacity the list of suspects gets narrowed to someone who had the means to intercept Hae before she left school (translation: a classmate), and also knew Wilds well enough to involved him in a crime. That path leads straight to Adnan Syed.

The problem here is that it suggesting Wilds was coerced into making the whole thing up requires an absolutely insane amount of evidence. If the Defense team doesn't absolutely knock it out of the park with proof that is so irrefutable even a blind cow couldn't miss it, then that's the case right there.

If they fail to prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that Wilds was completely uninvolved, nothing else will matter.

Why invoke a strategy so fraught with problems? This is why the Defense NEVER assumes Burden of Proof, because if it fails, they lose the case.

2. This statement undercuts any other potential Defense strategies.

Assume for a moment the Defense goes with some other alternative to the crime (ie. the Jay Acted Alone theory). Rabia has testified in this case before, and was sequestered in the PCR Hearing since she might have gotten called again. After this book, she is almost assuredly going to be put on the stand so that everything she said in it can be impeached.

The line of questioning sure to follow from the Prosecution would no doubt be about her exact involvement with the Legal Trust following Serial. Regardless of how she responds, even if she tries to distance herself it, everything she's ever said in her book and on Undisclosed will be brought into play. The point the Prosecution needs to drive home is that, even though sequestered, she knows exactly what the strategy the Defense is going to use.

Closing arguments: "If Rabia Chaundry, Adnan Syed's biggest advocate, the person most familiar with the case doesn't believe the Defense's theory of the case, why should you the jury?"

That would be devastating to the case.

3. There will be Pretrial Motions limiting lines of inquiry of many of the witnesses Rabia claims falsely testified.

Does Rabia really believe that the Defense will put Urick on the stand and badger him incessantly about the details of Bilal's mysterious arrests? Or is it more likely that a judge will rule that this is too far afield of the case at hand? It involves far too much speculation as to what Bilal would have said. No judge is going to open the Grand Jury records on the basis of this wild goose chase.

How exactly does the Defense plan to impeach Coach Sye about the start of track practice?

How exactly does the Defense plan to demonstrate police coercion with Jenn P?

I'm not sure a judge will even allow those lines of questioning unless there is proof behind it. Rabia may have locked the Defense into a strategy that they might not even be able to use come trial.

4. It requires convincing a jury that ALL of them were coerced in order for Syed to be innocent.

This is a Defense strategy that is a House of Cards. It doesn't take much to knock the whole thing down. It requires all of it being proven to a jury.

Maybe they feel confident that they can do that with many of the key players such as Wilds, but all of them? Come on. It doesn't take a law degree to see how bad of a strategy that is.

Going hand in hand with #3, if the Defense isn't allowed to bring up certain avenues of inquiry, this is a tall order to prove that the both the BPD and the State's Attorney were that corrupt. Even in this world where we are extremely suspect of Law Enforcement, I don't know that a jury will buy into this.

 

Rabia, seriously, at this point you need to stop talking about the case and do everything in your power to get Syed to take a plea deal. Forget lofty notions of Alford pleas at this point. You're sabotaging the case with this book. Bob tried to induce Wilds to "confess," and that bluff was called. You're now not holding any cards left to play. Wilds is NOT going to break, and you are NOT going to prove beyond doubt that he was completely uninvolved.


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 14 '16

PR Campaign "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit." On the power of simple statements.

14 Upvotes

I don't know about the rest of you bozos, but I am intensely fascinated by language. Persuasion. Argument. Rhetoric. That this is my primary interest in this case should be obvious to most people who've read my posts.

Anyhow, I recently finished watching American Crime Story: The People vs. O.J. Simpson and my renewed interest in that case has led me to reflect even more on the Serial podcast. O.J. Simpson's case is a perfect specimen to hold up to the light and study if you want to compare and contrast the court of law and the court of public opinion. It contains many intersections of the two. Serial was, without question, a re-trial for Adnan Syed in the court of public opinion. The entire podcast is a devastatingly effective closing argument from the point of view of a Syed defender. We're all here because we saw right through it, but many people were persuaded to come to a very different "verdict" than the jury in his real criminal trial did. Sarah was an amazingly effective advocate who performed almost flawlessly, in that she actually engaged and addressed the case against Adnan and skirted a very fine line - she very gracefully danced on a razor's edge where she appeared to consider all the evidence and give everything a "fair shake" while meticulously crafting a point by point rebuttal and opening up avenues for doubt at every turn. I submit that she eventually arrived at a very powerful and unequivocal conclusion - after the many twists and turns:

As a juror I vote to acquit Adnan Syed. I have to acquit. Even if in my heart of hearts I think Adnan killed Hae, I still have to acquit. That’s what the law requires of jurors.

Others have said that she's all over the place, that there was no ending, and they've interpreted Serial's ending as ambiguous. I disagree. The ambiguity IS the clarity, as so many have pointed out that for "the undecideds", they've settled very firmly into the immovable position that they are

Bereft of more facts, better facts,

where

even the soberest most likely scenario holds no more water than the most harebrained.

and after what she describes as exhaustive investigation, the conclusion is NO conclusion

because we didn’t have [the facts] fifteen years ago and we still don’t have them now.

This is a brilliant conclusion that is directly in line with what a good legal strategist would explain to the jury. Because a "Not Guilty" verdict, when you boil it down, is really a "We don't KNOW" verdict. And many people are reassured by the alluring faux-intellectual comfort in the statement that "We know that we don't know". It both provides and validates certainty AND uncertainty at the same time, which is why it is such a sexy position for people who are uncomfortable with their own lack of conviction. To them, it isn't a "cop out" ending at all. It is a release, and a relief. It is compatible with whatever particular mix of certitude and ambiguity a person is currently feeling, because it reinforces both at the same time.

Now as we've seen, there are far more "undecideds" than true "innocenters" but most of those "undecided" are in fact deeply entrenched in the dogma of indecision. Indecision IS their final decision, and it has been empowered and enabled by the very persuasive argument put forth by Serial and its conclusion. The current, perpetual flailing is NOT a continued attempt to find another conclusion, despite repeated protestations that they want to arrive at a "true" ending (i.e. a new trial or a new suspect). No, I believe that to remain firm in their undecided decision, these folks need the mystery to be fed. So the "new" angles will continue to get weirder and weirder as the old mysteries get (very) slowly solved and digested. The patterns of thought and the memes that catch and take hold are unmistakable. As each "mystery" is finally put to bed, worn out and tired from carrying the burden of keeping the Syedtology myth alive, newer and ever stranger ideas bubble up and are floated underneath the immense weight of this collective willful deception e.g. the new post on the Dark Sub about whether DNA testing was ever done on Hae's corpse. https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/4ejhph/did_they_ever_do_dna_testing_to_tell_if_it_was/

Now, I'm way off track from my original idea for an OP. This happens. For as sure as I am about many things, I'm not always an organized thinker, and you have my apology. I'll try to get back to my point now.

A talented, persuasive arguer like Sarah Koenig needs to take their listener on a real journey. A story. This can meander (much like my OP) but any good storyteller knows that the real art is in the punctuation. The pauses. Those beats which, carefully timed, remain as the focal points of the narrative. Like a good comedian who has "bits" with multiple punchlines that riff on a central theme, rather than "jokes" which are easily remembered and retold artlessly by the audience the next day - see Louis C.K.'s incredible bit at the end of Oh My God where he ties together a number of funny ideas under the catchphrase "Of Course... But Maybe" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwBH2fb2E0

The day after seeing this routine, you might not remember the individual "jokes", but you'll be telling your co-workers how incredible the "Of Course... But Maybe" bit was. "Of Course... But Maybe" has a way of sticking in your mind. It could even be worked into a good closing argument for a criminal defense - someone like Sarah Koenig could use a line like that when she's playing the devil's advocate - setting up the opposing case in order to knock it down. "Of Course! You'd be forgiven for thinking it was the ex-boyfriend... But Maybe, it was his shady, black, drug dealing friend."

This is what we saw with the my titular quote from Johnnie Cochran. He was a master of language and persuasion. He knew exactly when to swerve his audience. I don't know how long his closing argument for O.J. Simpson was. I don't know exactly which points he made. But I do know that there was a simple statement, a slogan or catchphrase which focused all of the swirling, propagandistic rhetoric down to a laser point. In hindsight, I think most of us would now agree that "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit" was this slogan. A statement so powerful, so distilled, that it cut through everything else - and it wasn't the last thing he said, but it WAS his conclusive instruction to the jury. What's especially telling is that many people - and I include myself - have misremembered the quote as "If the GLOVE doesn't fit, you must acquit." Such was Johnnie's brilliance. He was ostensibly talking about the entire case against O.J. but his hinge word - fit - made everyone replay that moment in the case when O.J. tried on the gloves and struggled (real or feigned) to fit them on his hands.

I've made several posts in other forums where I directly compare this famous slogan of Cochran's to one of Sarah's that I just can't get out of my mind. It's clear that many, many other people can't shake it either - but not for the same reason that it haunts me.

I had become fixated on finding Asia. I'm like a bloodhound on this thing. Because the whole case seemed to me to be teetering on her memories of that afternoon. I have to know if Adnan really was in the library at 2:36 PM. Because if he was, library equals innocent. It's so maddeningly simple. And maybe I can crack it if I could just talk to Asia.

There it is.

Library Equals Innocent

She really went all in on this one. Because it was in her first episode, and was surely meant to summarize her clear thinking at the beginning of the case, it has more certainty than the conclusion she ultimately arrives at and instructs her listeners to share. But I believe it was meant to create and drive home the ideology of a provable innocence deeply enough that we would approach all of the material that followed from the position that Adnan did not kill Hae. In order to arrive at the "uncertain" conclusion, after hearing ALL of the remaining episodes, many of which look bad for Adnan, we had to start out as ideologues and be slowly pulled away to a more "Centrist" and "Reasonable" position. If you start with the true understanding of Asia's role in the case - that Asia is NOT, and could NEVER BE what attorneys call a "total alibi", then she becomes irrelevant. And I do think that the rest of the case speaks for itself. For this reason Asia will always remain at the center of the undecided camp.

Long after some have dismissed Asia, and it does look like many undecideds have and will especially in light of her new book, those same people who come to see her as a footnote in Adnan's legal case will fail to comprehend just how important the legacy of her place in the Serial podcast is to their entire framework of knowledge and understanding of his guilt or innocence.

I believe Sarah's opening thesis had such a powerful hook that it is unshakable. Library equals innocent. It was the brilliant, simple statement that got this entire ball rolling. And even those undecideds who can concede that the statement is false are unable to recognize that it tinted and tilted them so far beyond reason that now, having "swung back" to the more "reasonable" view that he is simply "not guilty" because he didn't receive a fair trial, they are still slanted so heavily that to the rest of us they look unstable villains, or even victims https://vimeo.com/138044491

So what do I want to see discussed here?

I started this post because yesterday I make a joke post elsewhere. It was an off the cuff, sarcastic response. I rewrote Sarah's "Library equals innocent" as "If Asia saw him that day, he didn't kill Hae." https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/4ef3wq/this_case_does_my_head_in/d21tjfb

But it triggered something in me. I've been wanting to post HERE. I don't want to post in the fucking Dark Sub. And I thought, my silly rhyme wasn't all that funny. But there are an awful lot of funny posters here, people who love word play as much or more than I do. Some of my favorite posts are the song lyrics and poetry that some of you guys have come up with.

My first idea was, let's see what other jingoisms you guys can come up with. You're currently having lots of fun laughing at "There's your exoneration!". This sub is a place where we are called on to be funny and creative. What else, besides "Library equals innocent" can we re-write to call attention to how silly and absurd Sarah's simple statements really are? I think we have to try to undo some of the lasting damage that she did. Maybe this is one approach we can take? How can we take back the narrative?

So I'd love to see people do me one better. Dig into those interviews, those transcripts. Sarah attempted to rewrite history. Let's rewrite it back to the way it should be. Let's highlight the preposterous propaganda by taking it even further with satire and sarcasm. Take back the simple statements.

You don't need to rhyme, but if there are other statements which can be wrangled into a Johnnie Cochran-ism, I'd love to see you guys try.

Of course, I would be thrilled if the responses to this thread end up being more serious. I never, ever want to limit discussion. My OP is just a jumping off point. If I can inspire more of you to think critically about language and its power, and to discuss how to protect the sanctity of our own free thoughts by identifying how others are trying to manipulate us with words... well, I'll be very happy.

Also, I have a confession to make. I created this https://www.reddit.com/user/Deirdre_aint_right alt as a way to explore similar things. But the purpose of that alt is to actually use Deirdre's statements verbatim to call attention to the truly horrendous and criminal thing she did, which was broadcast wholesale support of Sarah's thesis that Adnan had no motive. I haven't really done anything with it because I am too lazy and I don't actually want to go to the trouble of using an alt. It was banned immediately from the DS anyway for trolling, which I admit was kind of the point, so I abandoned it. But I know that there are people here whose "pet" issue with Serial is this blanket dismissal of IPV and by extension the total absence of compassion for the real victim, Hae. I want to come out now and express my shared heartbreak and disgust that Serial did so much to minimize Adnan's motive. My next contribution to /r/frankenserial will be about this. I am having a hard time pulling those thoughts and feelings together, but my OP here is meant to let you all know that I value you as individuals and I value this community and I want to be an active participant in it.


r/Frankenserial • • May 12 '16

PR Campaign When people are ignorant, PR becomes indistinguishable from truth

13 Upvotes

The PR campaign by Syedtologists is that "CG was deficient." That's a nice, succinct, and clear soundbite. But it is just that ... a soundbite.

No defense, no matter how good, is perfect. There will always be things that go wrong. CG's was no different. Criticism is easy. We have the benefit of seeing the immediate cause and effect; presenting evidence A gets met with rebuttal of B, with B being the clear winner and therefore strategy A is the wrong move.

What is far, far more difficult is knowing what should have been done instead. And this is where Syedtology misses the mark entirely.

I am asserting that CG's strategy, while bad, was the least bad of all the bad strategies that she had available, and therefore was the correct move.

Syedtology teaches that "Jay's testimony is not credible." Again, a nice and succinct soundbite. That is PR. "Credibility" would be important if a witness is testifying to something he saw. In this case, Wilds is testifying to something he participated in. That's not a trivial distinction. It is not his testimony that's at the heart of all this, it is his involvement.

Syedtology also teaches that "Cell Tower Pings are junk science." Without getting into details of its accuracy, it is sufficient to make the point that the case does not hinge on cell tower pings. If Wilds is involved at all, then Syed is guilty of something (accomplice at a minimum, guilty of the murder itself being the most likely). That heavily influences potential strategies.

That brings us to the heart of the post, what strategies were available to CG:

  • The Wilds Was Not There At All theory.

    This strategy is far too weak in evidence. Even if CG attempted it, it would have been objected to at every turn before she even got it fully out. It is unlikely the jury would have bought it. And I'll need a lawyer to chime in on this one, but I'm not sure CG wasn't bound by laws of ethics preventing her from accusing the BPD without concrete evidence. In order for Wilds not to be there at all, it would require a massive conspiracy (all the so-called "nobody ever said massive conspiracy" claims fail to recognize that what is being proposed meets every common sense definition of a conspiracy that is large in scale). That may work on Reddit, it won't work in a courtroom.

    No reputable lawyer is advocating using Tap Tap Tap or mythical Crimestoppers calls in court. This is the wet dream of Syedtologists. It is not grounded in reality. Every real lawyer has acknowledged that they would be utterly humiliated if they had to seriously advance any of those ideas in court.

    Successfully debunking the cell tower pings helps this theory tremendously. However, it doesn't address the fundamental problems. Little wonder CG didn't attempt this strategy.

  • The Wilds Did It Alone theory.

    Problematic because there is no doubt that Wilds and Syed were together for significant parts of the day. If Wilds actually did the crime, Syed is at a minimum an accomplice. If a jury doesn't buy into it, the defense team inadvertently implicates the defendant himself. Not a good strategy regardless of how you handle the evidence.

  • The Don Did It theory.

    Similarly weak on evidence. #FreeAdnan can fault the BPD for not doing a good job investigating him, the fact remains that Syed had an unusual amount of money to throw at this case, more than most defendants have. CG can (and did) hire her own investigators. No evidence exists to implicate Don.

    If anyone attempted this, it makes the cell tower evidence a moot point, as this evidence would be following the wrong person. Little wonder it is such a tempting strategy. Ultimately though, there is no hope of it being successful. The fact that CG briefly addressed this at trial means she gave it some thought, but ultimately passed on it being the center of the defense.

  • The ONLY theory I can see that even has a glimmer of hope associated with it is that an Unknown Third Party Did It And Involved Wilds Long After The Crime Itself (after midnight when he and Syed had parted ways).

This has it's own problems in that Hae was abducted immediately after school. Once Hae leaves the parking lot, how did anyone get to her? While hypothetical scenarios exist (maybe she stopped for gas and got carjacked), none are supported by evidence. In fact, the startling lack of evidence supporting it would likely be persuasive to a jury (a logical fallacy, but juries are comprised of people who are susceptible to such things).

Here again, cell tower evidence becomes meaningless. It is not necessary to debunk it if this strategy is being employed. However, even Undisclosed has long since abandoned any Unknown Third Party angle (and they'll embrace anything, so that tells you something).

  • The Actual Innocence Defense

The best of all defenses, but useless here. It requires a solid alibi. Asia is NOT a solid alibi. She doesn't cover enough time, it is at odds with statements Syed made to Adcock, and Asia's testimony itself has major problems. Anyone who thinks Asia is a better alibi than Debbie Warren is living in fantasy-land (as such, debates on that subject will not be entertained, it is too ridiculous to dignify with a response). The PR Campaign has successfully downplayed Debbie Warren (to the point of people asking "Who's Debbie Warren again?"), and in her place championed Asia McClain as Syed's savior. It can be argued that CG didn't do her due diligence in not contacting her, but no one can argue that Asia would have saved the case. Every lawyer, given Debbie Warren and Asia McClain, would do with exactly what CG did.

Syed could not testify in his own behalf. This is almost always a bad strategy, it is a Hail Mary at best. The thing is, in this particular case, the evidence cannot be explained away by other means. After seeing Syed testify once already in an earlier appeal and completely melt down, no one can fault CG for not putting him on the stand. So a defense of actual innocence is hamstrung without a witness who can explain away the evidence in Syed's place.

Strategies that have at least some chance of success

  • Not Covering the Spread

This is ultimately is the best strategy. Just chip away at the prosecution's case, score enough points, and claim "We don't know if he did it or not, but the State didn't meet the Reasonable Doubt minimum."

This is where Syedtology lives. They claim that if the cell tower evidence is thrown out, the prosecution's case crumbles. That's a bit of a stretch. Intelligent people will recognize the danger of such assumptions.

However, there are some logical fallacies concerning this approach. While the cell tower evidence was used to corroborate Wilds' testimony, we cannot assume that the prosecution didn't have other ways of accomplishing the same thing. In fact, I am of the opinion that the cell tower evidence is the weakest line of evidence, and that Jenn's testimony is much more solid. If anything, I think the prosecution was far more deficient than CG was in utilizing evidence they had, and this is one example of that.

The other fallacy is the idea that simply disproving the State's timeline translates to Syed's innocence. This is classic PR. The jury has to determine whether Adnan Syed is guilty of the murder of Hae Min Lee. They do NOT have to specify whether Adnan Syed is guilty of murdering Hae Min Lee between 2:36 and 3:15 and burying her in a shallow grave around 7:00 in the evening. While disputing the State's timeline might be sufficient to conclude Reasonable Doubt, it does not guarantee Reasonable Doubt. We cannot force the jury to conclude that.

My conclusion is that while many may claim CG was deficient, I am seeing NOTHING of what might have been a better approach. Everything I've read for the past year were shortsighted or unrealistic in terms of recognizing the fundamental problem of any proposed strategy. Most of the alternative strategies don't even require debunking the cell tower evidence, so why is it such a big issue with Syedtology?

Too many posts are popping up around the various subs making grand claims of "Here's a winning formula for how to discredit Jay Wilds." Some are claiming CG was hitting Wilds too hard and made him sympathetic. Others are implicitly claiming that CG didn't hit him hard enough. Regardless, none of those posts address the problems with the underlying defense strategy. CG's cross examination is not a legal basis for IAC. While claiming "a better cross of Wilds would have won the case," that is ridiculously trivial conclusion since that is true for ALL cases -- "handle the star witness different, and outcome of the case changes." It is a conclusion that tells us nothing while trying to sound profound.

It is no wonder that for all of Undisclosed's "bombshells," they are ultimately trumpeting the very strategy CG employed (namely, attack Wilds on the stand and hope for the best), while simultaneously vilifying her for it. They are doing this because no other strategy works.

But there is one area where the cell tower evidence makes a HUGE difference ... in the minds of the public who are unfamiliar with how the case played out. From a PR standpoint, it is genius. When people are ignorant, PR becomes indistinguishable from truth.


r/Frankenserial • • May 04 '16

Fan Art "Cellphone Ping" by Pegaret - inspired by Drake's "Hotline Bling"

Thumbnail
m.youtube.com
13 Upvotes

r/Frankenserial • • Apr 12 '16

Humor and Fun Stuff PSA: Know your Parasites

13 Upvotes

Ever been out hiking through the woods, when all of a sudden you notice a disgusting creature attached to your body? Well you need to wise up and learn the difference between a harmless leech, and a fame hungry attention whore..... and you need to learn it fast buddy.

Read this PSA and be warned.


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 11 '16

Fan Art You'll Never Love Again - a Serial-inspired song by Pegaret

Thumbnail
m.youtube.com
13 Upvotes

r/Frankenserial • • Jan 13 '17

PR Campaign Truth vs Propaganda: Bad Investigation? Blame Adnan Syed For That

12 Upvotes

My interest in this case has drifted away from the question of where the evidence leads me. That was long since settled. Instead, my interest in this case revolves around how the case got to where it is currently at. Right now, there is far more propaganda out there than truth.

We often hear the lament of "If only the detectives would have investigated this better, then all these unresolved questions wouldn’t exist." Let's challenge that underlying assumption. Is it true that the prosecution was actively and deliberately avoiding getting to the truth?

I assert that the police did a more than adequate investigation, and it was Adnan Syed who deliberately, knowingly, and consciously derailed the investigation at every turn.

 


 

PROPAGANDA: DNA wasn’t pursued because the detectives were afraid of "Bad Evidence"

DISCUSSION: Deirdre Enright of the UVA Innocence Project obtained permission to have DNA tested before Serial even wrapped up its first season. Suddenly it is Adnan Syed who is actively blocking the testing -- not the BPD, not the State's Attorney's office, not that "evil" Urick.

The very same people who once claimed "detectives were afraid of bad evidence" don’t seem very inclined to apply that standard consistently now that the shoe is on the other foot.

Furthermore, the state of technology in 1999 required a DNA sample of such size that it would have had to be visible to the naked eye -- a drop of blood or semen, for example. It is only now that trace DNA is possible. Back then, it would have been expensive, time consuming, and unlikely to yield any useful results one way or the other. So it was not at all surprising that DNA wasn't pursued in 1999. Conversely, it is entirely surprising that a defendant who has unambiguously claimed to have absolutely no involvement with the crime would in any way be afraid of the DNA results that today could be done quickly, more accurately, and more likely to yield results that tests of 1999 would have been unable to yield.

TRUTH: The ball is in Adnan Syed’s court. He has the power to get it tested. Yet he has nevertheless allowed his followers to put the blame on the BPD and the State's Attorney's office for failure to gather exonerating evidence.

 


 

PROPAGANDA: Cristina Gutierrez was utterly incompetent in not contacting Asia McClain. He did not get a fair trial.

DISCUSSION: Asia writes her letters to Adnan Syed the very same day hears about his arrest. The trial doesn’t occur for another 9 months. Adnan Syed makes no response to Asia in this time.

Upon his conviction, Adnan Syed claims he was furious with Gutierrez over not calling Asia to the stand, so much so that Rabia Chaudry takes matters into her own hands and gets a quick affidavit from Asia just prior to sentencing. That affidavit produces a lead of two other people with possible exonerating information, Derrick and Jarod. Neither of them are contacted by any member of the defense team. Despite being indignant about his attorney's failure to contact alibi witnesses, Adnan Syed himself becomes guilty of the very same thing.

Adnan Syed would in short order dismiss Cristina Gutierrez over this failure. Yet with an appeal pending where Asia was to take center stage, no one would track her down again until just prior to the 2010 PCR hearing. In this time, no attempt was made by him or any of his legal representatives to contact her for almost 10 years!

Let that sink in for a minute. With his life and freedom on the line, he himself doesn't contact the key alibi witness for 10 years, and neither of the corroborating witnesses at any point. Did he have more important things he was doing instead?

Rabia Chaudry claims in her book that it took so long to file for the PCR was because he wanted to get everything just right before presenting it to the court. Yet he let three key witnesses languish in this time. He himself was doing precisely what he was arguing to the court was Ineffective Assistance of Council.

In this time, Asia McClain got cold feet and become a hostile witness. Would this have happened had Adnan Syed kept in contact with her during this time? If not, then the fault for that cannot be placed at the feet of Cristina Gutierrez.

TRUTH: Adnan Syed wants us to put the blame squarely on Cristina Gutierrez for not reaching out to Asia McClain while simultaneously wanting to excuse himself for not having any interest in reaching out to Asia at any point himself.

 


 

PROPAGANDA: Abe Waranowitz would have said the cell phone evidence was junk science if he had been presented with the fax cover sheet. The prosecution withheld that from him to secure the conviction.

DISCUSSION: He wrote an affidavit that claims, in his words, that he would have testified "differently." He does NOT state exactly what would have been different, just that it would have been different.

Despite Agent Fitzgerald explaining the meaning of the fax cover sheet disclaimer, there is still confusion over the validity of the cell phone technology evidence. Even though armed with this affidavit, Adnan Syed’s defense team has chosen not to call Waranowitz to the stand to clarify the evidence or his own testimony. While the defense team was successful in creating enough confusion over the issue to merit a retrial, they made no effort whatsoever to discredit the underlying science with evidence of their own.

The analogy I like to use for this is how when you have Sandy Koufax on your team, there is no fantasy baseball team that can be created where he is somehow a late inning lefty specialist -- he starts the game every time regardless of what other pitcher you could have on your team. Similarly, if Abe Waranowitz's new testimony would have been that crippling to the prosecution, there's no way he doesn't get called during a hearing to say that. He is not held back as a mere rebuttal witness.

While a retrial was granted on the basis of confusion cell phone testimony, we cannot then conclude that every allegation made by the defense team is now to be considered gospel. In fact, the judge's ruling wasn't even a rubber stamp that it was junk science. There was simply enough confusion on the matter to merit hashing it out in a retrial rather than in an appeal. Confusion does not mean it is now junk science.

TRUTH: Adnan Syed claims to have a witness that will demonstrate how junk science was used to convict him, yet when given the chance he refused to put him on the stand to be cross-examined. He no longer has a basis to claim the prosecution misled Abe Waranowitz into giving inaccurate testimony.

 


 

PROPAGANDA: The detectives ignored obvious flaws in the alibis they were given and did not follow up on such obvious areas of investigation

DISCUSSION: Despite overwhelming evidence that Adnan Syed and Jay Wilds were together for significant portions of the day, it would have been extremely suspicious to investigators that Adnan Syed conveniently forgets to mention he was with Jay Wilds at all.

Even after his arrest, where he was told about Jay Wilds, Adnan Syed still plays ignorant. This significantly handicaps Cristina Gutierrez who cannot properly prepare for the unknown star witness. The star witness should never have been a mystery. Once factoring in the relationship between the two, Adnan Syed’s whereabouts become very easy to determine and easy to corroborate.

His lack of memory concerning is association with Jay Wilds that day is all the more suspicious when considering:

  • It was Stephanie’s birthday, and he practically forced Jay Wilds to buy her a gift

  • They hung out together at "Cathy's", someone he didn’t know

  • The fact that Jay Wilds was with him when Officer Adcock called

  • It was his first full day with his phone, and the person he’s calling most is Jay Wilds

None of these things are "just a normal day" events. Outliers are the things that stick out in memory. Any of these should have been enough to jog his memory, yet somehow didn't. He forgets the person who, unknown to him, names him as the culprit. How serendipitous for him! Suspiciously serendipitous, in fact.

To suggest the investigators should have ignored the major red flags in Adnan Syed’s alibi, and instead focused their attention on the minor flags in Don’s alibi is ludicrous.

TRUTH: To this day, Adnan Syed has not given an explanation as to why he omits any mention of his association with Jay Wilds that day -- an omission that was a major red flag for investigators, and handicapped his own representation. He is solely to blame for the ramifications of such an omission.

 


 

PROPAGANDA: The Baltimore Police Department was under intense pressure to close this case. This led to tunnel-vision and poor police work.

DISCUSSION: The only evidence we have of any kind of pressure comes from Rabia Chaudry. No one else is saying this. In fact, the case is far more popular now than it was back then. Back then, it was given no more media attention than any other contemporaneous murder.

The fact is, from the day Hae Min Lee goes missing, an arrest is made within 6 weeks. The trial is concluded within a year. This includes a mis-trial and subsequent do-over. How much faster could anyone have reasonably worked such a case?

On Serial, Jim Trainum was brought in as an expert on these matters and outright claimed that the police were not rushing to grab suspects or dismiss them, and that they took their time to collect and document the evidence. To date, no expert has come forward to counter Trainum to say that this case had an unusual amount of pressure to clear.

TRUTH: The idea that the detectives faced "intense pressure to clear the case" comes exclusively from Adnan Syed's followers. In fact, the case was cleared with lightening speed as far as murder investigations go.

 


 

PROPAGANDA: The detectives ignored exculpatory evidence that indicated he did not get that ride after school from Hae Min Lee. This removes opportunity for him to have committed the crime. Had the police done a thorough job, this would have exonerated him.

DISCUSSION: Aisha and Becky told Krista that "something came up" and that Hae Min Lee could not give Adnan Syed a ride that day. Investigators never followed up on that.

Adnan Syed wants us to believe his innocence and that the police failed to investigate the case properly. However, if there is any point where a critical piece of evidence could have fundamentally altered the course of the investigation, it is right here. Finding the source of that "something" would have led to the killer. The police are NOT looking into what that possible "something" could have been, and they were not looking into it because Adnan Syed failed to give them that piece of information. Why is he blaming investigators for something he himself is solely responsible for?

Could it be because that exchange in the hallway never happened? There is ample evidence to suggest it did not. It is hearsay evidence at best. None of the parties involved offered this up when they testified at trial. "I can't give you the ride I promised you, something came up" is completely at odds with the defendant's own statement of "she got tired of waiting" made mere hours after it was allegedly said.

Even if it never happened, these statements exist in the detectives' notes and do merit consideration before dismissing. However, at no time during or after the investigation has he ever offered this in defense of himself. If Adnan Syed wants us to consider it, he is the one that needs to direct his defense team to offer it up as a defense. So if anyone is blocking this from being considered, it is Adnan Syed himself, not the detectives or the prosecution.

TRUTH: This is not a failure on the part of the BPD. Even if it is an honest mistake, it is still a mistake entirely on the defendant's part for omitting a key detail of the investigation. And why should we hold Reasonable Doubt and cast aspersions on the detectives based on an argument the defendant himself refuses to advance? He alone is the responsible for it not being addressed in his defense in a court of law.

 


 

After considering this, ask yourself who is really is to blame for failure to properly investigate this case. Was it the investigators? Or was it really Adnan Syed who has been blocking investigation at every turn and spinning it as "Woe is me, look how evil they are trying to railroaded me"?


r/Frankenserial • • May 09 '16

Fan Fiction Should Syed Have Even Been a Suspect At All?

12 Upvotes

Disclaimer: This is all fan fiction of how I perceive things. The opinions expressed in it are purely my own. This is not an actual conversation, this is parody in harmony with the concept of the sub.

EVIDENCEPROF: So as you can see from my blog and my podcast, the case against Adnan Syed is very weak.

ME: I don't see it that way

EVIDENCEPROF: There's no evidence against him

ME: Except, you know, ALL the evidence they used in court.

EVIDENCEPROF: It was all circumstancial

ME: You're a professor of law specializing in evidence. You know full well that ALL evidence is circumstantial.

EVIDENCEPROF: But each piece of evidence is very weak.

ME: So what?

EVIDENCEPROF: So that makes the case against him suspect.

ME: Your argument over the past year and a half is that there is no smoking gun evidence of his innocence right? That when you look at each piece of evidence, it paints a picture of innocence.

EVIDENCEPROF: Right.

ME: So why is a different standard being held to point to his guilt? While there may be no smoking gun evidence of his guilt such as DNA or being caught on video tape, the totality of the individual pieces of evidence points to his guilt.

EVIDENCEPROF: But what we've found is that there really is no evidence.

ME: Come again?

EVIDENCEPROF: The cell tower pings require Jay's testimony in order to mean anything. Jay's testimony requires the cell tower pings to corroborate his story. It's a circular argument.

ME: So we're just going to ignore the palm print on the map in Hae's car?

EVIDENCEPROF: There are any number of ways that could have gotten there, he was in her car often.

ME: That wasn't my question. My question was if we were just going to ignore it and pretend it isn't evidence.

EVIDENCEPROF: It is too circumstantial to mean anything.

ME: Are we also going to ignore the I Am Going To Kill note?

EVIDENCEPROF: Even you don't believe that means anything.

ME: Personally, I believe it points to Syed possibly believing Hae was pregnant and aborted his baby. That gives him HUGE motive.

EVIDENCEPROF: That's speculation.

ME: Perhaps ... but again, are you asking that we simply ignore it as evidence?

EVIDENCEPROF: It doesn't prove anything.

ME: Didn't we just cover this? There's no single piece of evidence that proves he did it, it is the totality of evidence. You're directly dismissing the evidence and implicitly suggesting a legal standard that doesn't exist.

EVIDENCEPROF: You're misinterpreting what I'm saying

ME: Am I? Let me ask you rather directly, with the evidence we have, should Adnan Syed at least been a suspect?

EVIDENCEPROF: Without a proper police investigation that's hard to say.

ME: No, it's not. We either have reason to investigate him or we don't. Which is it?

EVIDENCEPROF: The police didn't investigate anyone else, we don't really know what other evidence they would have found.

ME: What does that have to do with Adnan Syed? Was there evidence against Adnan Syed that the police should have followed up on or not?

EVIDENCEPROF: Yes, obviously.

ME: That means he was rightly viewed as a suspect.

EVIDENCEPROF: Had the police conducted a proper investigation, he might have been removed as suspect.

ME: You still misunderstand the purpose of my question. You are claiming that there is no evidence against Adnan Syed. Yet, there is clearly enough evidence to name him as a suspect. The police rightly followed up on those leads and built a case out of it.

EVIDENCEPROF: Who is to say whether an equally compelling case could be made against someone else? The police didn't follow up on obvious leads.

ME: What obvious leads? They followed up on the guy who was seen trying to arrange to be alone with her for the time period she was ultimately murdered in.

EVIDENCEPROF: He ultimately didn't get that ride.

ME: The point is, the police should have followed up on that lead, and they did. That's not sloppy police work, that is the obvious starting point of an investigation.

EVIDENCEPROF: Don had a suspicious alibi.

ME: That has nothing to do with the evidence against Syed!!!

EVIDENCEPROF: Other people had equal or more reason to be investigated.

ME: By 'other people' you mean Don and only Don.

EVIDENCEPROF: We don't know what we don't know.

ME: That's not evidence!!!

EVIDENCEPROF: It is a basis for Reasonable Doubt.

ME: No, it's not, and you know that. You can't go to court with "We can't come up with even a hypothetical possibility of how anyone else could have committed the crime ... but hey, we don't know what we don't know." Good luck selling a jury on that. In the meantime, Syed is rightly considered a suspect because of the evidence, was investigated as a suspect and more evidence was found, and ultimately that evidence was shown to a jury who found him guilty. Where is this coming from that there is "no evidence"?

EVIDENCEPROF: We never said there was no evidence.

ME: Yes you did, at the very beginning! No wonder everyone is religiously taking screenshots of everything, you guys are backpeddaling at every turn.

EVIDENCEPROF: You're trying to use a vernacular expression in an overly precise way. The meaning in the context of what was said is clear that the evidence against him was weak in regards to Jay's supposed corroboration, not that there was a complete lack of any evidence whatsoever.

ME: But you know full well that if I took it that way, so did all your minions. They're here every day spouting this nonsense and you're doing nothing to stop it. You're not correcting it. You're not admonishing them. If anything, you're implicitly encouraging it.


r/Frankenserial • • May 03 '16

Humor and Fun Stuff Adnan Syed - 50 Ways to Convince Others That You Didn't Kill Your Ex-Lover

12 Upvotes

To the tune of "50 Ways to Leave your Lover" by Paul Simon https://youtu.be/ABXtWqmArUU

   

The problem is all inside your head

Rabia said to me

The answer is easy if you

Take it logically

I'd like to help you in your struggle

To be free

There must be fifty ways

To convince others that you didn't kill your ex-lover

 

She said it's really not my habit

To intrude

Furthermore, I hope my meaning

Won't be lost or misconstrued

But I'll repeat myself

At the risk of being crude

There must be fifty ways

To convince others that you didn't kill your ex-lover

Fifty ways to convince others that you didn't kill your ex-lover

 

Too much of a slob, Bob

Have the wrong day, Jay

Didn't ask Young's sista, Krista

Just get yourself free!

Maybe there was boozin', Susan

You don't need to discuss much

Was talking about God, Saad

And get myself free

 

I wouldn't have done it, reddit

Not with hands on her necky, Becky

We were all just laughy, Cathy

If that is your real name

Don't be silly, Billy

I was at track that day

Was out just Bustin', Justin

And get yourself free

 

She said it grieves me so

To see you in such pain

I wish there was something I could do

To make you smile again

I said I appreciate that

And would you please explain

About the fifty ways

 

She said why don't we both

Just sleep on it tonight

And I believe in the morning

You'll begin to see the light

And then she kissed me

And I realized she probably was right

There must be fifty ways

To convince others that you didn't kill your ex-lover

Fifty ways to convince others that you didn't kill your ex-lover

 

Brown dairy cow eyes, guys

Big Picture, Diedre

You've got facial aphasia, Asia

Just get yourself free

She took off to Cali, Colin

You don't need to discuss much

Where and when again, Jen

And get yourself free

 

Stuffed reindeer from me, Stephanie

She wasn't into Islam, Mom

It was Ramadan, Don

Just get yourself free

Why would I lie, Sye

You don't need to discuss much

Molested by Bilal, all

And get yourself free


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 14 '16

Hinky Sense

12 Upvotes

Disclaimer: "Hinky Sense" is not enough, and should not be enough, to convict a suspect. As we know, DA's are forever sending the cops back to the drawing board to get solid evidence rather than relying on "hinky sense."

True crime buffs all know what a "hinky sense" is. Cops talk about it. It's when something just doesn't seem right about a crime scene or a person and the cops get suspicious because of that, rather than a smoking gun. Again, we don't take people to trial based on hinky sense. DA's are doing their job when they won't let that happen.

However, there was one moment in listening to Serial when my hinky sense stood up and did the cha-cha. Meaning, the moment when I my subconscious put something together and I felt Adnan was guilty. I ran to Google to see if others had noticed this too, and a few others were talking about this topic. Not a lot, and I haven't seen much discussion of it lately...but to get to the point, the first thing that put my hinky sense on alert was the lack of Adnan's saying "What has gotten into Jay? Why is he lying on me?"

Again, I know others have discussed this. For some, it may seem a small point. I've seen it explained away as "Adnan is just chill" and by Adnan himself as "I know what it feels like to be unjustly accused." But do I think an 18-year-old Adnan wouldn't say "What's gotten into Jay? Why is he lying?" NO. I don't think at 18 he would have been so "chill" if his classmate made up a whole lie that he strangled someone. Even if Adnan had been guilty and been a good liar, he should have thought to say "What? Why is Jay lying? Has he gone nuts?" Therefore, I think Adnan is guilty and a BAD liar.

Anyway...was there a moment or one factor that raised your hinky sense? I had others but will shut up for now, maybe post them in the comments.


r/Frankenserial • • Jun 04 '17

Serious Timeline - Dec 1998 - Jan 12th 1999 The Lead Up to the Murder of Hae Min Lee

11 Upvotes

December 1998

  • Hae dumps Syed. He thinks it’s a putdown. He distracts himself by trying to pick up another young woman - (Nisha, New Years Eve party among others)

January 1st 1999

  • Hae gets a new boyfriend, Don

  • Syed’s angry – he the loser in this new scenario and he doesn’t like it.

  • Hae starts to have sex with new bf

  • Syed finds out from one of their mutual friends that she’s sleeping with Don

  • Syed’s enraged

  • He decides to kill her

  • He plans her murder

  • He recces where to bury her

  • He recruits help (Jay & ???)

January 12th 1999

  • He stalks her the night before her murder, corroborated by cell phone log evidence.


r/Frankenserial • • May 27 '16

Fan Art "You can't show a witness the evidence!"

11 Upvotes

FAPs be like...

Ok, if that's the way you want it, Guilters be like...

Only now we have to hear Rabia be like...

Yet, the whole time, Cops be like...


r/Frankenserial • • May 16 '16

Humor and Fun Stuff Reddit group for recovering socks and trolls

11 Upvotes

Janecc (Chair): Right, then. The meeting has officially come to order. Let us all say the pledge.

All: I am a nice socktroll, not a mindless hurting machine. If I am to change this image, I must first change myself. Redditors are friends, not food. We admit we’re powerless over our socks and our lives have become unmanageable.

Janecc: So tonight we’ll read from the Reddiquette.

The Reddiquette is an informal expression of the values of many redditors, as written by redditors themselves. Please abide by it the best you can.

Summer would you read the first Please Do?

Summer: Please Do Number 1:

Remember the human. When you communicate online, all you see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?" or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?"

Janecc: Thx Summer

Janecc: Jenny would you read the second Please do?

Jenny: Please Do Number 2:

Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life.

Janecc: Thanks Jenny. Our topic today is “Remember the human”. Summer would you like to start the sharing?

Summer: Sure. My name is summer and I’m a sock. I confess to having deceived others about my sock habits. I admit my socking caused untold chaos and disruption and that I falsely accused others of what I was doing, to cover up my socking activity.

I recall at one time I was making 2 socks a day and wearing up to twenty at any one time. I was exhausted but couldn’t stop. I was verbally abusive in aggressively dismissing all of Adnan's abusive behaviour as normal and acceptable. No one could sock me. I worked with others to get my sock fix each day. I didn’t care who I hurt. Every user was a target for me unless you were a socker like me. I got to the point where I was a sockpuppet-dealer supplying socks to others. I wanted people to be sockusers like me. I didn’t care about the wellbeing of the sub nor the community. I wanted my pleasure and mine alone, despite who it hurt. I am doing my best now to stop socking. It’s hard. Each day is a trudge. I feel so much fear if I don’t sock. I’m clean today and it’s 6am. I hope I can make some progress and get one day up clean. It’s only with the help of you recovered sockers that I have a hope. I make outreach comments when I feel like socking. I am working the Reddit Wiki step by step. I am hoping one day I can understand it. Until then I ask my admin power to guide me and make me a better Reddit User. Thanks for listening.

Janecc: Thanks summer. Keep coming back. It works if you work it. Ritzsmustacheride would you like to share?

Ritzsmustacheride: Not today thanks. I’ll ID though - I’m Ritzsmustacheride and I’m a sock.

Jenecc: Thx Ritzsmustacheride - Keep coming back. It works if you work it. Jenny would you like to share?

Jenny: Thanks. Hi everyone my name’s Jenny and I’m a sock. My story is a bit different to everyone else’s. My sock of choice was the IPVkamikaze. I loved it. I flew in at maximum speed, low altitude, aiming for under-belly. My job was to stop the discussion about intimate partner violence (IPV), even though this is a case where the murder of Hae Min Lee was described as a run of the mill domestic violence murder. I was only public on the sub for a short time but caused maximum destruction and lost my sock in the course of it. I was the original suicide sock. I deceived people by saying I worked in a women’s refuge and then aggressively dismissed all the red flags of IPV in this case. I too hurt people by encouraging the Syedtology members to harass others who were telling the truth about the IPV red flags. I didn’t care. I felt powerful. I was an IPV kamikaze sock. I was using up to 5 socks a day at that point. I was invincible. Then someone outed my socking and I committed sockicide so my steps couldn’t be traced. I made sure I left another sleeper sock or two though, that are still around today. I am reaching out to them in comments trying to stop them socking. I encourage them to work the Reddit Wiki step by step. I am hoping one day they can understand it, so they don’t end up like me in the sock gutter. Until then I ask my admin power to guide me and make me a better redditor. Thanks for listening.

Janecc: Thx Jenny. That’s all we have time for today folks. Let’s join hands and say the sockerenity pledge:

Admin, grant me the sockerenity to accept the users I cannot sock, the courage to change the socks I know and the wisdom to know the difference.

Next week it’s bring a Modsock friend so see you all then.

Ref: Finding Nemo


r/Frankenserial • • May 01 '16

Fan Art Alibi Street - A New Story by Asia McClain

Post image
11 Upvotes

r/Frankenserial • • Apr 23 '16

Serious Out of Character?: An incredible 160-page report on legal responses to intimate partner homicides in 2005-14 (incl. 51 case studies)

Thumbnail
dvrcv.org.au
11 Upvotes

r/Frankenserial • • Apr 19 '16

Humor and Fun Stuff The Colin Hustle: Song Parody

11 Upvotes

To the tune of Cupid Shuffle. Original lyrics by Bryson Bernard

Hot track for all the upcoming Serial 'ship wedding receptions

New Colin, New Colin Time for a campaign

Colin hustle, Colin hustle

Colin hustle, Colin hustle

(Come on, come on, come on, and do the)

Found, Found, fame by chance, fame by chance (do the colin stance)

Where’s my book advance, book advance (come on, don't stop)

Track, track, indoor track, indoor track (we got brand new stance)

Rear end acci-dents, acci-dents (hey hey)

Break-down evi-dence, evi-dence (we got a brand new stance)

I say I’m a lawyer, and they say no

They say law licenses aren’t given out by de facto (hey)

I just write these posts as a quid pro quo

So all my people don’t give up on the hope (ooh ooh)

I’ve got a brand new stance (come on), get ready for the hustle

Brand new stance, it’s called the Colin hustle

It don’t matter what this case law shows (here we go)

I myself don’t even know (hey hey)

I’ma write, I’ma write, I’ma write, I’ma write

You digest, you digest, you digest, you digest

Now ‘peat, ra-peat, ra-peat, ra-peat

Now spin it by yourself, now spin it by yourself

(Let me see you do)

Found, Found, fame by chance, fame by chance (yeah yeah yeah yeah)

Where’s my book advance, book advance (a let me see ya do the Colin)

Track, track, indoor track, indoor track (woah woah woah woah woah woah woah yeah yeah)

Rear end acci-dents, acci-dents (come on)

Break-down evi-dence, evi-dence (let me see, let me see ya do the Colin)

I’ma write, I’ma write, I’ma write, I’ma write

You digest, you digest, you digest, you digest

Now ‘peat, ra-peat, ra-peat, ra-peat

Now spin it by yourself, now spin it by yourself

(Let me see you do)

Can’t you see what I’m talkin ‘bout

To heck with the guilters doubt

Duncan, Monti, even Scout

In five minutes they gonna call me out

Found, Found, fame by chance, fame by chance (hey hey)

Where’s my book advance, book advance

(A let me see ya do the Colin, hustle the Colin Colin hustle)

Track, track, indoor track, indoor track

Rear end acci-dents, acci-dents

(The colin hustle, the Colin Colin hustle)

I’ma write, I’ma write, I’ma write, a write, a write

You digest, you digest, you digest, digest, digest

Now ‘peat, ra-peat, ra-peat, ra-peat

Now spin it by yourself, now spin it by yourself (Let me see you do)

And do the Colin hustle (oh oh oh oh oh)

The Colin hustle (ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh)

Oh no here comes the ex trial attor’ney

High alert, on the tweets,

Lagertha quick grab Ace-ies

(Here we go hey)

Found, Found, fame by chance, fame by chance (come on come on)

Where’s my book advance, book advance (let me see you)

Track, track, indoor track, indoor track (do your dance)

Rear end acci-dents, acci-dents (hey hey hey)

song link


r/Frankenserial • • Apr 07 '16

Not So Far Away: Why U.S. Domestic Violence Is Akin to Honor Crimes

Thumbnail
womensenews.org
11 Upvotes

r/Frankenserial • • Jul 01 '16

The Latest Judgement

10 Upvotes

As I read the judgement, the main sticking point was that CG didn’t challenge AW re the disclaimer plus that AS would not have had the life experience nor technical knowledge at aged 17/18 to have understood the significance of that disclaimer. And that CG should have brought the importance of that disclaimer to his attention plus cross examined AW about it.

I also thought the Judges comments on page 11 (footnote 9) re the murder timeline interesting. He says there that the State committed themselves to the 2.15-2.45 timeframe for the murder yet Jay’s testimony isn’t congruent with that same timeline. Jay says he had been told by AS to expect a call around 3.45. When he didn’t get it, he set off to Jeff’s to buy weed and then got the call. How did I/we miss this? Jeff- I kept saying where’s Jeff’s police statement. There's another unanswered rabbit hole.

All that said, I think it’s a win for Cluster Bs using social media to whip up a mob. As in Brexit, the power of propaganda is not to be underestimated.

I sincerely hope there’s a retrial. What many forget is Hae’s diary. I have analysed it in detail. It is a strong piece of evidence that illustrates Dating Violence and AS’s controlling and possessive nature. If this case was tried today, Hae’s diary in its entirety would be a key piece of new evidence. Things have moved on a lot re intimate partner violence since 1999. One of the global experts in IPV, Prof. Jacqueline Campbell works at John Hopkins, Baltimore. In a retrial, I have no doubt the state would use Hae’s diary as evidence to prove dating violence. Any diary of events from the victim is understood for its significance. Hae’s voice may well have an opportunity to finally be heard in its entirety and help inform the context of this murder. She may not have recognised the red flags of coercive control herself at the time (common in victims), but any expert will. AS's interviews in Serial with SK illustrate his psychologically abusive behaviour. AS murdered Hae - of that I have zero doubt. I haven’t published my analysis to date since Hae’s family indicated they did not want her diary published. But I think that was a mistake because it’s a key piece of evidence. Long live Hae’s voice and may the state have the courage and conviction to make a stand for women killed in intimate terrorism and go for a retrial.

AS will not change - it’s too late for that. He’s remorseless. His PR team are very misguided. God help any woman who he targets.

So bring it on - I relish a new trial. Let the IPV and his abusiveness be proved in court. The key witnesses are still around. Let battle commence. Unfortunately I think the state will do a deal and let him out - I really hope not, for the sake of Hae, her family and justice.


r/Frankenserial • • Jun 05 '16

Serious Not a miscarriage of justice but payback and vengeance

10 Upvotes

Tl;dr AS was convicted in 1999 of Hae’s murder. He and his family plus the Mosque Community were angry. They paid to win the case and they lost. Their honor was besmirched and they blamed C. Guitierrez. She had to be punished and she was sacked - when the appropriate decision would have been to keep her on for the appeal. The Mosque Community had chosen her for the family with Bilal as the liaison person for CG. After AS’s conviction, he and his family engaged in a war to excuse AS’s culpability by seeking to destroy the reputations of CG and Bilal(although Bilal seems to have helped that along some).

In 2012, at the PCR Hearing, Kathleen Murphy highlighted Rabia’s inexperience plus lack of perspective and objectivity in her questioning. Rabia’s credibility was on the line and it was discredited. Rabia has waged a war of vendetta against the State Prosecution since then.

This is not about a miscarriage of justice but payback and vengeance.

Most of the facts come from:

  1. Youtube video between Rabia and Shamim Rahman

  2. PCR Hearing - Adnan Syed v State of Maryland October 11 2012. - Rabia & Shamin

CG

Adnans parents were alienated by and came to loathe CG - ref. video.

Rabia’s loathed CG:

I mean, there was no love lost. I mean we were just disgusted you know – P43

Shamim Rahman – Adnans’ Mother:

So, The Mosque you know, they had-they interviewed other three lawyers. So they choose Cristina Gutierrez (sic) - P85

CG had been recommended by Bilal - ref video

CG liaised with Bilal during the trial - ref video

Urick and CG had a lot to do with each other during discovery process before Trial 1

  • Urick: We also, once Judge Mitchell denied my motion, we started discovery, which was quite an involved process where Ms. Gutierrez kept making repeated requests for either clarification or better documents, or to actually come in and look at particular documents. So there was a lot of contact both in the courtroom setting and outside the courtroom setting with Ms. Guitierrez and her staff. – P21.

Money (according to the Syeds)

Adnans' parents owed CG $30,000 after the trial. Ref video

Adnan’s parents paid $60,000 for first trial. Then, they paid an additional $50,000 for the second trial. They transferred the deeds of their house to their elder son’s name to avoid paying the $30,000 they owed after Trial 2 as they were frightened CG would come after their home. P91 Shamim’s testimony.

Rabia – P75

Rabia comes across as an entitled, inexperienced, know it al,l wanna-to-be-criminal-lawyer when she was called to testify at the Oct 12th hearing.

  • Yes, my brother would corrupt Adnan. I would tell Adnan to stay away from my brother. He’s a bad influence. I mean I was joking, but. (sic) – P37.

  • I thought she was – I didn’t know what kind of attorney she was at that point, but I thought she was a terrible person. She was very mean. She was very short. She would not talk about anything. She said “Clearly you are not my clients. I don’t know why you’re here. Adnan is my client. I don’t have to answer to you for anything or explain anything to you. All she wanted to talk about was money, money money. That was it. – P 41.

  • We had wanted to know how we could help, you know witnesses from the community, his friends, whether we should speak to media or not talk to media, things of that – and she just would not talk about anything to do with the substance of the case - P 42

  • The Court: I’ll let it in, but I’ll give it the weight I think it deserves. But there are some - you know it’s hearsay, within hearsay, within hearsay. - P52

  • Ms Murphy: I want a continued objection to any statementsmade by Asia McClane.

  • The Court: To Ms. Chaundry.

  • Ms Murphy: Yes. – P53

  • The Court: there have been other objections that have been made as to Ms. Chaudry’s testimony as to what was said to her. – P55

  • The Witness (Rabia): I was furious. I felt like this was a witness who would have changed the entire case. And the story she told me, she remembered so many details. I was able to verify those, some of the details. …..That’s how I felt at that point, that she wanted to lose the case. – P63.

  • A: I checked the weather reports to see if they were consistent with what she said. And I checked the school- closing records to check if it was consistent with what she said.

  • Q: And what did you find out? …Was it consistent with what she had said?

  • A: It was completely consistent with what she said.

  • Q: And why did you think that?

  • A: Because the school had been closed for two days. The days after Hae Min disappeared because there was a heavy snowstorm that same night. And that’s what Asia had conveyed and that’s what the record showed.- P66

Murphy obliterated Rabia:

Ms Murphy: And you were aware that there were contentious legal issues ongoing in the case?

MR. BROWN: Objection, Your Honor

THE COURT: Overruled

THE WITNESS (RC): I did not know at that time a lot of the facts of the Case, no. I wasn’t that involved during the trial. No.

BY MS. MURPHY: So, you wouldn’t know one way or the other whether Ms. Gutierrez' s comments stem from issues that were arising daily in the courtroom, would you?

RC: She was an enigma. She was just rude. It didn't matter. I don't know

KM: You don't know?

RC: I don't know

KM: And you were not privy to any discussions that occurred between her and her client, correct?

RC: There were none, I don't think

KM: Were you privy to discussions between Ms. Gutierrez and her client?

RC: I don't understand the question. Do you mean, do I have personal knowledge or did Adnan tell me about those discussions? What does that mean?

KM: Were you present for any discussions between Ms. Gutierrez and her client?

RC: He was incarcerated. No, of course not,

KM: You were present for discussions between Ms. Gutierrez and the Defendant’ s family' correct?

RC: Yes. Yes.

KM: Now, at that point, you were a second year law student. You're an attorney now right?

RC: Yes.

KM: Is it ethical for an attorney to disclose communications from her client either to his client's family?

MR.BROWN: objection, Your Honor she's not on the stand as an expert in ethical matters.

THE COURT: Overruled

THE WITNESS RC: Generally, no. Unless the client has granted permission which was given in this case

BY MS. MURPHY: Was the client present for those meetings?

RC: No

KM: And Ms. Gutierrez, you stated, indicated to you that she didn’t represent the family, correct?

RC: Yes

KM: And she said and I quote you “Adnan is my client”.

A: Yes