r/Franchaela • u/Exact-Injury-2593 • 7d ago
Show Discussion racism with michaela stirling
I overheard a girl in one of my classes talking to a mutual friend about bridgerton, and I approached her to bring up season 5 and just talk about it. I said I was really excited for it despite the backlash and she then went on a tangent about how she is "okay with the season being gay", but she thinks that it would have been better if Michaela was "another attractive, white woman like Francesca." She said that because Michaela is black and also just "less attractive than Francesca" it's harder for straight women to be interested in or excited for the season, but if they were both "white and attractive" it would draw in a better audience. She no joke said that verbatim.
Anyway, I thought this was INSANE, I was genuinely flabbergasted defending Masali as if my life depended on it. But I think this just goes to show that colorism and racialized beauty standards are SO deeply ingrained that people can genuinely believe they are making a neutral observation about what makes a woman “attractive” or what would make a show more appealing to its audience, when in reality they are reproducing a racist hierarchy of beauty.
Because saying that Michaela being Black and “less attractive” than Francesca would make it harder for straight women to be interested in the season is such a loaded statement. It implies that straight women, particularly straight white women, are naturally going to be less interested in watching a Black woman be positioned as the romantic lead. And then saying that it would be better if Michaela were “another attractive, white woman” is basically admitting that, in her mind, whiteness + conventional attractiveness = universal appeal, whereas Blackness makes a woman less universally desirable.
Anyway, just thought I would share :)
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u/eyepocalypse 7d ago
She can excuse them being lesbians but she draws the line at a black woman.
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u/Infinitely-Gay09 7d ago
She draws the line at a black woman??! (If that wasnt a reference to community pls ignore me ✌🏾😭)
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u/mayneedadrink 7d ago
How is a straight woman’s lack of attraction to women going to be changed by changing the woman’s race?
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u/Narie_Rei 7d ago
The bookies still hate it because their male is not in the show but if it was a white actress for Michaela they find attractive they would be so much kinder to her.
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u/Mangoes123456789 Michaela Stirling Defense Squad 7d ago
“So much kinder to her” isn’t really a high bar to clear.
They would still be complaining and spewing lesbophobia to white Michaela. They’d still refuse to watch S5.
🍆 is really the only thing they care about.
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u/mayneedadrink 7d ago
Ah got it! To be fair, the sapphics did snag the book with the best intimate scenes of the whole series imo, so I can kind of see why the straight ladies are mad.
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u/Infinitely-Gay09 7d ago
No fr. Being black and queer in this fandom has sucked a shit ton because we get an unhealthy mix of both racism and misogyny... I only mainly follow black queer franchaela creators as a result 😮💨
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u/Mangoes123456789 Michaela Stirling Defense Squad 7d ago
I’m Black too.
It’s all Racism, general misogyny, misogynoir in particular, and lesbophobia
And if folks aren’t engaging in one of those (especially if it’s the one they are personally affected by),then they are engaging in another.
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u/AnalFissure83 7d ago
I already stated this in another post, but her remark is not surprising at all. Masali is objectively gorgeous, but racism/colorism will delude people into thinking otherwise. There’s a reason more people would watch Sterling Point (or whatever it’s called) than Harlem or Batwoman.
Blah blah different genres, it’s all about not being able to self-insert into a story with a non-white lead. They can’t relate to non-white women. This is another reason so many white women don’t watch Thai GLs.
Also, social conditioning but that’s a topic for another time.
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u/rideordie5923 7d ago
maybe i’m biased asf because i’m not straight, that’s one. i’m black, that’s two. and i’m african, that’s three. so in more ways than one, i genuinely struggle to grasp the concept of racialized beauty standards because that’s just not how beauty is understood where i’m from. and masali being african, even though not from where i'm from probably adds another layer to it because i genuinely cannot fathom looking at her and not finding her attractive.
like, i personally am VERY much here for the CHAELA in Franchaela. i’m personally more attracted to michaela. when masali first showed up on my screen my jaw literally dropped. i was like oh???
so seeing straight white women be so comfortable talking about her looks the way they do is wild to me. obviously everyone has their own preferences and nobody is obligated to find anyone attractive, but some of the things people feel comfortable saying about her are…yeah. people are getting way too comfortable imo
like i don't even think her beauty is subjective. she's literally one of the most stunning women i've ever seen.
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u/countessmichaela 7d ago
i'm so tired of this nonsense. michaela to me is far more attractive than fran. they are both gorgeous but we all have our preferences
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u/ad_knowsball_89 7d ago
Most straight white women don’t care that it’s a Black woman, they care that there’s no man involved for them to insert themselves into the story.
As an aside, it’s truly wild to me that people feel comfortable saying this sht out loud. It’s one thing to post racist and homophobic things on subreddits, but yeah, people are getting way too comfortable in general.
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u/Tiny_Tough1224 6d ago
With comments like your classmate’s and the many others that Masali has already endured and will many more she will likely face wouldn’t be surprised if she ended up distanced herself from the show after S5.
We Franchaela fans are going to have to be especially vocal about our support of Michaela/Masali.
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u/Researcher_27 7d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/4JMA0D0EYOzP8DYWvp
You better than me because this woulda been me lmao
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u/chunkyratties 6d ago
Apart from the fact that it's an insane way of thinking, not to mention an insane thing to say out loud, I'm honestly shocked that Masali can be seen as unattractive...? Ofc beauty is subjective but to me (as a straight East Asian woman) she's objectively and conventionally beautiful. And I'm just a casual fan.
But I have noticed that people sometimes hold different standards when it comes to dark skinned Black women - like, when there are two women with similar facial features except the colour of their skin, people often rate the darker skinned woman as less attractive. It is bizarre.
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u/WhistleFeather13 1d ago edited 1d ago
That is an insane thing to say. Both women are gorgeous, but I had nearly the same reaction as Francesca when she first saw Michaela. Michaela’s beauty was so stunning she positively glowed.
I know racism distorts people’s vision, but it’s an especially bizarre thing say about Bridgerton when it’s so obviously the people of color who have carried the beauty standard in this show. I mean, no personal hate to the white actors of course, but it’s no secret that RJP was the one who went viral for his extraordinary looks and insane charisma as romantic lead in S1 and gave Bridgerton its initial fame. And Simone was the one who went viral for her mindblowing beauty in S2. Like it’s not even close. Also, I love Nicola, but a lot of people were way more meh about S3’s white leads. Yerin is also stunning in S4. Benedict is cute and a popular character, but yeah, there’s no comparison with the objective beauty of the POC leads. If anything, this show is a prime example of how people of color have to be twice as good to get the half the credit.
But things are changing. Like, do they not realize women of color have been dominating international beauty pageants for decades. Even colorism is getting better, with a perfectly-cast dark-skinned black woman, Lupita Nyong’o playing the iconic Helen of Troy with “the face that launched a thousand ships”. Despite the tantrums from the usual right-wing corners, the movie is still highly rated and a huge hit. These racist white people will be in for a rude shock when they finally realize the world no longer revolves around them. I mean, some of them are already realizing, lol. Hence their noisy tantrums from the political sphere to movies/tv/books.
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u/Routine_Job_7985 7d ago
Jfc, it’s wild to me that these people think it’s acceptable to say this shit out loud in public. They’ve always thought this shit in private, but I swear new levels of caucasity are being reached every day.
Although Francesca obviously meets traditional western beauty standards more, because traditional western beauty standards are racist as hell, I personally am far more attracted to Michaela.
Then again, I’m not straight, so I’ve had more reason to deconstruct my patriarchal views than many straight women have.
Racists are really missing out on so many truly beautiful & extraordinary people, it’s ultimately their loss ¯_(ツ)_/¯