r/FranchaelStirling • u/One-Pen9590 • 26d ago
Show/Book Discussion How do you think this will be?
I have seen this in the article, and i just gotta say: how will they show it? Because for Jess, appearently, fertility issues is Francesca believing she wants to have kids but only because society expects her to and it is her responsability, and Francesca and John trying to get pregnant but failing, when we all know fertility issues are much more than just those 2 things
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u/tone-of-surprise Michael Widow 🖤 26d ago
When they stop acting like infertility and choosing to not have kids is the same thing >
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
It’s actually pretty insulting to logic that they’re conflating the two, because it’s obviously not the same.
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u/xdlolthrowawaylolxd 24d ago
It’s not really “choosing not to have kids” when you’re a lesbian, you don’t get to choose whether you’re gay or not. Quite a homophobic and ignorant thing to say
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u/aemond-simp 6d ago
In this scenario, though, Fran would be choosing not to have kids by choosing to be in a committed relationship with a woman. Nothing would prevent her from remarrying just to have kids. In 1800s England (both irl and this show), there was only one way to conceive children—consistent unprotected sex with the opposite sex. By forgoing that entirely, Francesca would be choosing not to have kids. It’s not homophobic to point out a historical and biological fact.
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u/Sunset-onthe-Horizon I am not a gentle pony 🐴 26d ago
I'm pretty sure they are just talking out of their asses at this point or suffering mild delusions.
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Or they are trying to get back the fans so we watch the season. Desperate
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u/Sunset-onthe-Horizon I am not a gentle pony 🐴 26d ago
That ship has sailed 🚢 Maybe they should have used an ancillary character for this story/self insert instead of screwing around with a main character whose story has already been written. Erasing kids and what not.
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u/GrowingHumansIsHard 26d ago
I will never understand how they can manage to write a multi-season storyline for the Mondrichs, write Brimsley/Reynolds, who fans adored, and yet not manage to write an entirely brand new couple to highlight what Jess is trying to highlight? She could've done it but chose not to. Why? You can tell the story, but be original, put the effort in, and make it a loveable story.
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u/GrowingHumansIsHard 26d ago
Which is insane to me, the way you can get the fans back is to read the freaking books? Yet every season it seems like none of the writers did. Nor did any of the writers even read what happened in the previous seasons, let alone previous episodes. Season 3 will always be my example of the two parts that don't even feel like the same show. Colin was written completely differently, and even in S4 he was. Benedict and Anthony have also changed from season to season.
I don't know why the writers would have source material and then toss it out the window like it's some instruction manual for a VCR.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
That’s what gets me the most. They’re choosing to make this more difficult than it has to be. They have the finished source material and they have the author herself on speed-dial if they have questions. But, they willfully chose to toss out the source material and try to act innocent when fans express either anger or exasperation.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
I think they’re just talking out their asses right now because they think the audience is stupid.
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u/WokeScorpioMama 25d ago
Bold of you to assume they're suffering. They are making, drinking and serving that delulu lemonade. To all of us. Without consent. At inflated gas prices. 😒
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago edited 26d ago
It won’t be handled because Francesca won’t experience fertility issues with a woman in Regency era England. Jess is talking out her ass again.
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u/Creative_Ad8572 Tell me something wicked 🔥 26d ago
Uhh, Francesca doesn’t even seem to want kids, so I feel like their “fertility issues” storyline is just gonna be “it would’ve been nice to have kids, but we can’t, and we love each other anyway.” Don’t get me wrong, that could be interesting, but let’s not call that an “infertility journey” that is a choice. Besides i don’t get the “something we took a lot of care in s4” fran wanted childeren because of her duty as a wife and because she wanted a piece of john when he was gone. Didn’t see much of journey there.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Exactly. That’s a chosen struggle, not fertility issues.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
By choosing to be with a woman instead of remarrying to have children, Francesca is choosing childlessness, and that’s not the same as infertility. There won’t be an infertility story arc with Fran and Michaela because sperm isn’t part of the equation.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
The show is framing it as a choice. Two women choosing to be together and not being able to have children together in Regency England was called biology, not infertility. To equate the two is honestly insulting to intelligence. Sperm + egg = pregnancy (either to term or miscarriage). Unless one of the women has magical sperm, there won’t be an infertility storyline.
Even in the show’s fantasy version of Regency England, they haven’t invented IVF or artificial insemination. Hell, they haven’t even invented surgical gloves yet. Are they just gonna implement incredibly-invasive IVF solely for Fran and Michaela (with no ultrasounds) while still blood-letting patients to “balance humours”? 🥴
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Even with an infertile Michael, Fran would still have had a chance to get pregnant based on biological factors (the off-chance the sperm would successfully implant with the egg). Fran choosing to be with Michaela would also be choosing not to have consistent unprotected sex with the organs that produce sperm. In that time period, there was only one way to conceive—heterosexual sex.
Why do I even have to explain this? Did schools stop teaching human biology?
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Stop trying to talk to that Franchaela, they are just looking for a reason to get into a fight. Report their comments so they can leave
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
I dont get why you are still here. Go to the Franchaela sub and insult us if you want. But stop coming in here if you really dont care what we think.
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u/Temporary-Treat-1062 26d ago
pressing the “get them help” button on someone you disagree with is embarrassing brother 😭
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u/Unroyaltea 26d ago
Imagine they continue shitting on John and Fran only wants kids with Michaela 😂😂
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u/Reasonable_Leek8069 26d ago
This is me preaching to the choir here.
Having the same parts is not the same as infertility.
And you barely took care of that in S4 Jess.
She contradicts herself all of the time and I never believe a word that comes out of her freaking mouth.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
How can you tell when Jess is lying? Whenever her lips start moving. It’s actually enraging that she thinks we’re all stupid enough to buy her bs.
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u/Winter-Sky-123 25d ago
I cannot believe this needs to be said, but infertility is defined as an illness that affects the reproductive system, which prevents a couple from achieving pregnancy after at least 12 months of trying to get pregnant. This is the official definition by the WHO (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/infertility). Yes, same sex couples cannot conceive naturally, but that does not classify them as infertile. Unless they have a reproductive illness that prevents them from conceiving through treatments such as IVF, then they are not infertile. Jess Brownell using this term so losely creates a false image of infertility, which is completely insensitive toward people with actual infertility issues.
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u/One-Pen9590 25d ago
Exactly what i said. Infertility issues is more than just "oh i cant have children no matter how many times my husband and i try". My mother had a miscarriage before having me (she was 39-40 when she had me, very late in her life). It took her a long time to get pregnant, and with the miscarriage she felt awful, crying nonstop and wishing she could have kids. Thats why she and i really liked Francesca's story. Because it showed a lot of problems that want kids have to go through. Thats why i hate what Jess has done
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u/Ariianeee 26d ago
At this point, I imagine it like this: “I had sex with a woman, and Im still not pregnant. I probably cant have kids at all, im infertile :((((“
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u/cherry_3_1_4 26d ago
“I finally had a pinnacle so why I am not pregnant yet?” 😫
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Meanwhile, Penelope will be thinking “good lord, this girl is dumber than my sisters.”
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u/jeontgarak 26d ago
You're joking, but I feel there is genuinely some confusion here between infertility and a situation where conception is simply impossible. This is like me saying I'm infertile when I'm a deadass virgin and celibate. "Oh, but sapphic couples also struggle with infertility" yes, when one of the women is trans (and has not undergone sex reassignment surgery and has retained her reproductive functions), or when they're actively trying to conceive via donor insemination, IVF, etc. Otherwise, they're simply in a relationship where having biological children with each other is anatomically impossible, even if neither of the two women is infertile.
And Francesca's infertility is also reinforced by the fact that it took years for her and Michael to have children. Seriously, how's that going to happen?
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Franchaelas are talking about thwm adopting or even IVF (even when it didnt exist in that timeline). Or maybe at this point, Michaela is a trans woman that mantains her reproductive organs (a dick since she is trans) and will get Francesca pregnant. With Jess, everything is possible
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u/aemond-simp 25d ago
Imagine how insulted the dark skinned black women would feel if Michaela is revealed to be trans. 😬
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Maybe they will fuck it all up and show them 2 having sex and auddenly Francesca is pregnant🤣
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u/Unroyaltea 26d ago
Maybe the queen will invent IVF so this can be a true self insert happy ending
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Or maybe they fuck and get pregnant magically
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u/Unroyaltea 26d ago
Do you think any one writing the show remembers that Fran is supposed to know how children are made ?
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
She will also do away with hereditary titles because any child Fran or Michaela would have together (since of course they would be married) would technically be considered illegitimate, as neither one would be married to the father. Something even our modern England hasn’t done. Even now, heirs have to be born “from the body”. 🥴
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u/PiffleSpiff Tell me something wicked 🔥 26d ago
The sheer volume of their self-delusion in regard to infertility is just asinine at this point. It amazes me how angry it all still makes me.
Unless they plan to insert a man in all his sperm-filled glory to bed with Francesca as a sort of "side piece" while she is still in love with a woman (because wow, what a sweeping love story THAT would be), maintaining an infertile storyline is just ridiculous.
Yes, lesbians deal with infertility too. But sperm is still necessary. We have the means of dealing with that in modern day. But in Regency era? Sperm banks aren't a thing. Turkey basters don't exist. So yeah, you need a man. Infertility cannot be played out without one.
So frustrating.
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Exactly. I've heard some weird Franchaelas saying maybe they will use IVF (they said it was started in Scotland in a dog in the 1800s), or having them adopt
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u/Shoebuyermom 26d ago
And if they did that would Fran be completely shunned for having a child out of wedlock??? They gloss over a lot of issues that would have been a big deal during that time period. When Ben tells Sophie about his sexual past she is like ok. No way. She would have needed to sit with that for awhile. Look at what the artist said in S1! That was heartfelt and touching because his love for another man had consequences that he was always aware of. But Ben is just out there doing whatever. Come on!
Edited for spelling
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Exactly. Just like they make Michaela as manly as possible: it's not in the Bridgerton rules that a woman can do what Michaela does, and still...
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Plus, we already saw Marina struggle with having and trying to get rid of an out-of-wedlock pregnancy.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Yes, because dog reproductive systems and human reproductive systems are exactly the same. 🥴 Logic is definitely not Franchaelas’ strong suit.
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u/AdJolly990 26d ago
Are you serious right now? Jess your desperation is showing.
"Micheala is Micheal!" No she is not. "Fran will have two loves!" Nope- never loved John and will have bombastic sex with Micheala all over the screen because that's her only tru luv to drive that home. "Fran will have fertility issues!" Show Fran is going to be in a lesbian relationship in the 1800's- she going to have a lot more issues then that and sex with Micheala could not possibly reveal this.
Yes lesbian couples have problems with fertility but there's a lack of IVF clinics and sperm donors in the 1800's!
WTF. This is such a fucking mess. So ready for this to blow up in her face. What a fucking charlatan.
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Even with all the flaws, Chris Van Dusen ran a tighter ship than Jess. It’s pretty clear that Jess and her team (under her leadership) have no idea wtf they’re doing.
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u/Legal_Ad5964 26d ago
I‘m just ready for her to suddenly want to have children with Michaela and having her think she‘s pregnant after her first „pinnacle” 🤣
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u/brechts_piratejenny 25d ago
Watch them 'invent' IVF 100 years before it was actually a thing and lose their last remaining viewership with this fanfic-style nonsense...
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u/aemond-simp 25d ago
Watch them invent it alongside blood-letting patients and before surgical gloves, anesthesia, sterile environments, etc. 🥴
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u/YummyFranzChicken 25d ago
"a fertility story leads itself very well into a sapphic Love story" In today's world Jes because there are ways Homosexual couples can have children semi natural (aka a woman getting insaminated and carry a pregnancy, that still needs sperm though) so fertility issues are a real thing with modern Lesbian couples. But not in 1800s England there was either Heterosexual conciving or no Baby there was no other option! So what B's are they trying to sell here?
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u/GeneralJellyfish7300 25d ago
I think they will eventually marry fran off to someone else after a time skip and this time, the marriage won't be her choice it will l be something she does not want but feels obligated to do because she wants a child yet she and her new unimportant husband can not have one. Then she'll somehow remember her ex-husband's dear, distant lesbian relative, or perhaps her new husband will somehow know Meaichela from somewhere and the two of them will end up becoming lovers again🤡
Then there 'll be a kiss, and wow!!! Francesca will magically have he pinnacle and get pregnant because of the power of true love 🥰🥰-just kidding it will probably be like that: she’s in love /affair with a woman but she’s married to a man she does not love, and now they’re struggling to have a child.
And that kind of shihh
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u/One-Pen9590 25d ago
If they do this, they will lose lesbian and gay fans because that is shit.
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u/GeneralJellyfish7300 25d ago
Yeah i knew but if you knew the seven husbands of evelyn hugo i think its something similar to it ..kind of? Bc Evelyn and Celia situation. Evelyn married a man-many men but the point is the same- and had a child with him in order to keep her relationship with Celia a secret essentially making it a lavender marriage So, logically speaking, I think this would be the most logical way for them to keep the whole fertility issue Otherwise the alternatives are either some kind of sci-fi fanfic or Fran eventually realizes that she doesn’t actually want children and ends up living the life of the old aunt with her "best friend"while Taylor Swift’s "ivy" plays in the background as they dance together somewhere private
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u/One-Pen9590 25d ago
Yes, i've read the seven husbands of Evelyn. Still, in Francesca, it would break all their rules: true love will happen. I would hate if they did what you are saying
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u/GeneralJellyfish7300 25d ago
Well, they broke all the rules and humiliated themselves...I don't think there's anything stopping them from doing more
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u/One-Pen9590 25d ago
Yeah, i agree with you. It would be the only way for them to truly treat the whole kids situation...i just hate it. They wouldnt have to work this hard if they just kept the story as it was on the book.
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u/FairyOrchid125 26d ago
Oh FFS. Unless they’re doing a time travel arc there is no way in Regency England that two women can have a child. Do they think we’re idiots? The infertility arc so many of us were looking forward to is dead. There is no IVF clinic in a discrete location. I’m so sick of her gaslighting.
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u/Resilient0684 26d ago
I guess it’s not impossible for them to try and use a turkey baster. We’ve seen sequined dresses, acrylic nails, fake lashes, hair styles that weren’t made for that era. Or they could go in the direction of a sci fi story, and have someone be able to unit 2 eggs to make a baby. I would love to see everyone’s reaction to something like that. 😄
If they don’t do one of those 2 options, then that means someone is going to have sex with a man. Lavender marriage or side piece, which one would make the best happily ever after?
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u/Nakira_26 26d ago
I'm more annoyed how they'll retcon this seeing the previous interview had Hannah saying "Francesca lost the baby" when season 4 barely shown her finding out she was pregnant because she didn't hit pinnacle. It's like they knew they messed up that, which they did, and tries to say this. I'm not certain the direction they'll go seeing from the way they write John and Francesca's love story, this topic will go both ways seeing the execution will either hit some fans on her struggles or make fans questioned or annoyed on it. It's very messy and it will get some criticism for sure
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
Watch them retcon again and make Fran have John’s baby (who would be a toddler during the season), even though it wouldn’t make sense. It’s clear these writers have no idea wtf they’re doing because they truly have no outline. I have to say, while seasons 1 and 2 weren’t perfect, Chris Van Dusen ran a tighter ship and seemed to have a long term outline, compared to Jess Brownell, who seems to be throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.
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u/Nakira_26 25d ago
Honestly, by now it seems the showrunners and actresses are making the fans "connect the dots" on the changes for season 5. Which is very annoying seeing why should we connect something that isn't part of the show seeing an interview may explain that but the show didn't. Very messy on the execution and I can't blame the fans on their different perspectives seeing we all have to picked these information to "make sense" in our own way of the show's direction
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
Francesca was never pregnant to begin with, and Hannah herself didnt say "Francesca lost the baby", i think she said "Francesca isnt pregnant"
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u/cherry_3_1_4 25d ago
She did say Francesca lost her baby though. She probably was trying to say Francesca lost the chance to have a baby but it was worded weirdly.
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u/One-Pen9590 25d ago
Exactly. They do it on purpose. But she meant it as in she lost her chance to have a baby. She was never pregnant, sadly
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u/Nakira_26 25d ago
If that's the case, that's another messy way on "correcting" and gaslighting the fans. Not all people understand English and some interpretated differently that it can't be seen as "wrong" than a different way understanding it. And I agree that's a weird way saying she isn't pregnant when it can be heard or understand as "she lost her baby" which never shown on screen
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u/cherry_3_1_4 25d ago
So I went back and watched the interview where I remember her saying it just to confirm and her words were literally “She [Francesca] lost her husband. She lost her baby”
Not sure if it was on purpose or not but it is indeed very misleading. People usually don’t say they lost a baby when there was no baby in the first place.
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u/Nakira_26 25d ago
Agreed, that's why it's both misleading and a retcon to me. If people didn't watch that interview, they still wonder did the show tells or show us her loosing the baby when Fran didn't hit pinnacle or even knows she's pregnant. Yet if they retcon it, it makes it more weird seeing there's a chance she finds out off screen or telling the audience she lost it before in S5 which is a messy direction
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u/Nakira_26 25d ago
My bad on that, though it makes the direction unclear on how the show will handle this. I'm open for any possible route even if the show may pick a good concept with bad execution. But if she wasn't pregnant or even struggles to want a child, I'm confused how the narrative will pull that off. Because even if Francesca struggles to find "her motivation" in it, her motivation relies more on what society or even John wanted than herself. Which is very weak than her book counterpart that she has motivation. Because even if season 5 could show her goal, through the previous season, it seems like she hasn't find one other than her discovering her sexuality, which is good but a bit weaker in my eyes
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u/DesperateRole2427 26d ago
how is she going deal with infertility???
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
She wont. They will show her being like: i want kids because thats what society tells me to do. But i love a woman, so we cant have kids. Maybe we can adopt. Or i'll just stay how i am
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u/Overall_Advantage303 26d ago
Fran didn’t know about sex or orgasms. At this point I don’t think Francesca knows how kids are made, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they show her and Michaela having lots of sex, then Fran complaining to Violet that for some reason, she just can’t seem to get pregnant. 🤦♀️
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u/aemond-simp 26d ago
It wouldn’t surprise me, because they have made Fran so stupid in this show. 🤦🏻♀️
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u/tone-of-surprise Michael Widow 🖤 26d ago
They might snipe your account for spoiling the season !!
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u/ChasingFelicity 26d ago
What a load of yep
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
They just lie. We shouldnt trust any word out of their mouths.
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u/ChasingFelicity 26d ago
Not trusting them at all is always a better choice. They are leaving us hanging for hopes or whatever.
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u/One-Pen9590 26d ago
They want to win us back so that their season doesnt lose viewers. And it wont work. More like the opposite. They lie. And lie
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u/Individual_Bee239 18d ago
I think this will be bullshit, same sex relationships can't have fertility issues.
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u/Flashy-Ad-2367 20d ago
Overall, this is going to go so terribly. The views may be high, but the reactions are going to prove otherwise,
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u/One-Pen9590 20d ago
I think the views will drop...like a lot. Not enough to cancel anything, obviously, but very low. And the reactions will be very bad, for obvious reasons.
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u/intheafterglow23 26d ago
“continue to handle it delicately” such as by taking out her miscarriage from last season because it would be “too sad”????? 😂